| Fan Ownership on 10:41 - Nov 28 with 2347 views | PunteR |
| Fan Ownership on 07:56 - Nov 28 by dmm |
If clubs can only be owned by the super rich who pump in millions to keep them solvent, then there is a problem with football. How has this situation come about? By the super rich taking over football.
It's no surprise that the government's Crouch report - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/25/crouch-review-a-genuine-landmar is opposed by the Premier League because it seeks to regulate those who've corrupted the game.
Football must be changed and who better to ultimately change it than the fans to whom the game belongs. |
Isn't it suppose to be the FA'S job to look after football? |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Fan Ownership on 10:52 - Nov 28 with 2376 views | johncharles |
| Fan Ownership on 15:50 - Nov 27 by R_from_afar |
In that case, you might like the word kraehengeschrei.
It means the sound that crows make.
A great name for a band too. |
Caw! I never knew that |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Fan Ownership on 10:57 - Nov 28 with 2368 views | johncharles |
| Fan Ownership on 15:47 - Nov 27 by CliveWilsonSaid |
How about Handschuhschneeballwerfer?
Translates as ‘a man who wears gloves to throw snowballs’ or a coward. Obviously. |
Do you remember the outrage and moral indignation when footballer started wearing gloves 😱😱 | |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Fan Ownership on 12:18 - Nov 28 with 2335 views | LazyFan |
The reason fan ownership looks like it won't work financially is that the players are paid over the top across the board by the filthy rich.
The rich have many reasons (advantages) for doing this.
For example:
Getting your money out of Russia, as a Football club has many fans in places that will allow you to open doors that were very much closed before. Spreading risk away from where you made the money and new safer opportunities to increase wealth
Or ...
Get yourself some PR if say you are from the other side of the world, say Asia and need some PR to make it known to all that you are around and ready for Business in this area of the world too. So, useful for large business deals in new markets to increase wealth.
Or ...
You run an oppressive regime and need to continue to trade with countries that don't like that so, getting your claws into their culture might make it more difficult for them to curtail your internal regime with say sanctions or some such. A defensive manoeuvre for maintaining power and to increase wealth.
Or ...
Plenty of other reasons which they can just do because they are rich. Such as vanity projects and so on. But mostly it's about leveraging a club to make themselves even richer ... often at the clubs and fans expense obviously.
However despite all this, in Germany with fan ownership, they make it work ... somewhat. And in other places, they are trying. Financially it is skewed at the moment ... at the moment. However, this may change and for many clubs when the rich pull out that is indeed what happens.
Comments such as "but it will only end in a raging inferno of noise, argument and chaos if fans run the club" is actually no different than the farce that has followed QPR's history of club ownership anyway. So, no difference then as the owners have been raving lunatics in the past and they don't even care about the club.
Really long term we need fan ownership and get off the drug-addicted teet of a benevolent dictatorship of our QPR. Otherwise one day they will pull the plug and we shall really go under and have to rebuild it as a fan club anyway. This has happened almost to us several times before. We are the exception to the rule really, AFC Wimbledon and others shall become the norm. |  |
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| Fan Ownership on 14:07 - Nov 28 with 2301 views | dmm |
| Fan Ownership on 10:41 - Nov 28 by PunteR |
Isn't it suppose to be the FA'S job to look after football? |
Yes, along with other football bodies. But the ESL debacle showed how ineffective they are hence, following football supporter pressure, the Government has stepped in. |  | | |
| Fan Ownership on 14:57 - Nov 28 with 2276 views | DavieQPR |
| Fan Ownership on 01:20 - Nov 28 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Neither of those facts have anything to do with Fan Ownership. |
Then they shouldn't be quoted as 'If they can do it' then. |  | | |
| Fan Ownership on 16:36 - Nov 28 with 2255 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Fan Ownership on 08:48 - Nov 27 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I think you are mixing up fan governance with fan ownership.
Bayern have won 9 Bundesligas and multiple Champions League with this system. Isn’t it great watching supporters take their board to task like this? |
I’m pretty certain that on a thread about ‘Fan Ownership’, I was giving my views on that aspect. |  |
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| Fan Ownership on 17:02 - Nov 28 with 2243 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Fan Ownership on 16:36 - Nov 28 by PlanetHonneywood |
I’m pretty certain that on a thread about ‘Fan Ownership’, I was giving my views on that aspect. |
Ok, but that wasn’t what you said.
The fans don’t run the club operationally in Bayern, or Barcelona for example. Neither of those clubs have a perfect system by the way, but it’s a lot further forward than anything we have in the top flights in England.
Fans provide general directional instructions democratically, while the professionals work things out operationally. We wouldn’t elect Joe Bloggs the window cleaner into the boardroom and ask him to work on financing a deal to sign a player for example.
In the never going to happen scenario that QPR are fan owned, there is no reason (perhaps other than affordability) that Lee Hoos and Les Ferdinand wouldn’t run the club under the consent of a elected board.
Like I’ve said elsewhere, it’s demonstrably doable by much better run and more successful clubs than ours, so while I can accept people won’t or don’t want it, or that QPR fans can’t agree on the colour of the sky, it can’t be said it doesn’t work or that it’s a terrible idea because the most trophy laden clubs in the world have a system that incorporates some kind of fan ownership. |  | | |
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| Fan Ownership on 17:07 - Nov 28 with 2240 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Fan Ownership on 14:57 - Nov 28 by DavieQPR |
Then they shouldn't be quoted as 'If they can do it' then. |
Man United are also a Billion in debt. Does that mean that commercial only ownership doesn’t work? | | | |
| Fan Ownership on 17:09 - Nov 28 with 2229 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Fan Ownership on 19:31 - Nov 27 by TGRRRSSS |
The fans arent paying the exact figures costing to run QPR - only purchasing good and entry in some way.
Hoos constantly talks of the costs of running the Ground and the match days costs of putting a game on.
I think it can work in some ways but interesting to see Wrexham and Portsmouth sell when wealthier people took an interest. |
I’m old enough to remember filling up buckets and getting locked out of training grounds under the current system. | | | |
| Fan Ownership on 17:20 - Nov 28 with 2223 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Fan Ownership on 17:02 - Nov 28 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Ok, but that wasn’t what you said.
The fans don’t run the club operationally in Bayern, or Barcelona for example. Neither of those clubs have a perfect system by the way, but it’s a lot further forward than anything we have in the top flights in England.
Fans provide general directional instructions democratically, while the professionals work things out operationally. We wouldn’t elect Joe Bloggs the window cleaner into the boardroom and ask him to work on financing a deal to sign a player for example.
In the never going to happen scenario that QPR are fan owned, there is no reason (perhaps other than affordability) that Lee Hoos and Les Ferdinand wouldn’t run the club under the consent of a elected board.
Like I’ve said elsewhere, it’s demonstrably doable by much better run and more successful clubs than ours, so while I can accept people won’t or don’t want it, or that QPR fans can’t agree on the colour of the sky, it can’t be said it doesn’t work or that it’s a terrible idea because the most trophy laden clubs in the world have a system that incorporates some kind of fan ownership. |
Jesus H……
You started a post about’FO’ with a link to how at St. Mirren have entered into this arrangement. In the first bloody paragraph I clearly said it might work for some, but that I’m not sure it would work at QPR; before ending with a view that fans voice is however, important! | |
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| Fan Ownership on 18:10 - Nov 28 with 2210 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Fan Ownership on 17:20 - Nov 28 by PlanetHonneywood |
Jesus H……
You started a post about’FO’ with a link to how at St. Mirren have entered into this arrangement. In the first bloody paragraph I clearly said it might work for some, but that I’m not sure it would work at QPR; before ending with a view that fans voice is however, important! |
Sorry, this thread is quite old
I was talking about the line
‘Having professionals implement and be accountable thereafter, just works better for me’
Nothing else. Sorry if I misunderstood. | | | |
| Fan Ownership on 18:21 - Feb 2 with 1890 views | Clive_Anderson |
I think this stuff needs to come from the top down, rather than the bottom up.
No big teams are going to want fan ownership while Newcastle, Man City and Chelsea are having millions pumped into them as they won't be able to compete. |  | | |
| Fan Ownership on 01:43 - Feb 3 with 1771 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Fan Ownership on 18:21 - Feb 2 by Clive_Anderson |
I think this stuff needs to come from the top down, rather than the bottom up.
No big teams are going to want fan ownership while Newcastle, Man City and Chelsea are having millions pumped into them as they won't be able to compete. |
Why do the other 150 professional league teams in the UK need to permission of those three arseholes to become fan owned? | | | |
| Fan Ownership on 07:03 - Feb 3 with 1718 views | PunteR |
| Fan Ownership on 01:43 - Feb 3 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Why do the other 150 professional league teams in the UK need to permission of those three arseholes to become fan owned? |
Out of the 150 how many are actually poorly run with corrupt owners.. ?. Genuine question. Open to all as I think Baz has me on ignore..and rightly so.. lol | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Fan Ownership on 08:00 - Feb 3 with 1673 views | stevec |
| Fan Ownership on 07:03 - Feb 3 by PunteR |
Out of the 150 how many are actually poorly run with corrupt owners.. ?. Genuine question. Open to all as I think Baz has me on ignore..and rightly so.. lol |
Exactly. I’d love to know how Baz would successfully run the present QPR, keep it successful and all without the £18 million the owners put in to plug the losses that he clearly couldn’t afford to do.
Like you, open to all, as I think Baz also has me on ignore too. |  | | |
| Fan Ownership on 13:26 - Feb 3 with 1599 views | NewBee |
| Fan Ownership on 01:43 - Feb 3 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Why do the other 150 professional league teams in the UK need to permission of those three arseholes to become fan owned? |
I think you're looking at it the wrong way, since due to their ownership, those three clubs don't need to concern themselves either way with who owns other clubs.
But for the others, whenever someone buys a football club, if he's prudent, the first thing he will ask himself is: "What's my exit strategy for when I choose or need to sell up?"
Meaning that if a fans group come up with the best bid, then they'll quite happily sell to them. (The odious Ron Noades eventually sold Bees to the fans, for instance, though that was only because there was no other buyer in sight).
But as we all know, it is very rare for fans to have that sort of money, so they invariably get outbid. Which in turn explains why the "fit & proper" test for ownership is so shamefully weak.
It is the club owners themselves who, through their votes in the PL or EFL, determine what that test amounts to. And they will not accept anything which restricts the pool of potential buyers unnecessarily, since that could reduce the price they will command should they put their own club up for sale.
Beyond that, most owners don't care who's signing the cheque, just so long as it doesn't bounce. | | | |
| Fan Ownership on 00:30 - Jan 14 with 933 views | LazyFan |
At some point, one of these Fan Owned clubs will go bust due to some corrupt or rubbish CEO, cue a big slagging off of the whole model by the press (who often are owned by private rich club owners themselves).
In reality, that could happen at these investor-owned clubs (rich people or chancers) and is nothing to do with the model. Actually, if we look at the track record, it's more likely to happen in such clubs than in fan-owned ones. Yet the press won't say that fact, of course.
Then what's the diff?
Well, with fan-owned clubs, they won't do stupid things like sell the ground or create a franchise or leverage massive debt ... at least not by design, as in they won't plan to do this on purpose like other privately owned clubs have.
Therefore survival with fan-owned clubs is less risky than the dangers of casino capitalism. Current empirical evidence shows this to be the case and not the press making rubbish up again.
Remember this when the press goes loopy as it happens as they will. | |
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| Fan Ownership on 19:39 - Nov 3 with 624 views | ManinBlack |
Talking of Scottish clubs think I will watch Morton v Dunfermline tonight as might get to see a team in blue and white hoops win at home. |  | | |
| Fan Ownership on 19:50 - Nov 3 with 602 views | ManinBlack |
A double wither. Morton wearing their away kit at home so no hoops and the Pars in front after 20 seconds. Just like watching QPR...
Edit. Now 2-0 down after 7 minutes. Serves them right for not wearing their home kit. [Post edited 3 Nov 2023 19:56]
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| Fan Ownership on 16:13 - Nov 5 with 353 views | TGRRRSSS |
Councils.. huhhmmmm what could possibly go wrong? |  | | |
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