| Well Done Australia 21:47 - Jan 5 with 45579 views | DWQPR |
Cancelling the visa for the arrogant anti-Vaxer Djorkovic. Never liked the bloke. Let’s hope other countries follow suit. |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 17:27 - Jan 14 with 2275 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Well Done Australia on 17:14 - Jan 14 by distortR |
I agree mate, my point was more about the rules at this stage. |
A New Zealender I know has been trying to move back to Auckland for a couple of years now. He finally sold his flat in London in June and I assumed he’d gone back. I just saw him today and he’s been on a waiting list to get into a Quarantine Hotel. Apparently it’s 30,000 person long. After over 6 months of waiting he’s finally allowed to move home at the end of the month. |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 18:09 - Jan 14 with 2233 views | SawCon |
Alphonso Davies the Bayern Múnich player has myocarditis and is unable to play for an indeterminate period
Weekly MRI's to monitor his heart
Confirmed by his agent via blue ticked journo that he had the vaccine booster in December
https://mobile.twitter.com/rwesthead/status/1482036258134183939?ref_src=twsrc%5E
Just throwing that in to add some context to the Djokovic question and whether it's right to coerce him in to taking something that could (albeit unlikely) end his career. And more than that force him to disclosing that private medical info | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 18:18 - Jan 14 with 2189 views | Juzzie |
| Well Done Australia on 18:09 - Jan 14 by SawCon |
Alphonso Davies the Bayern Múnich player has myocarditis and is unable to play for an indeterminate period
Weekly MRI's to monitor his heart
Confirmed by his agent via blue ticked journo that he had the vaccine booster in December
https://mobile.twitter.com/rwesthead/status/1482036258134183939?ref_src=twsrc%5E
Just throwing that in to add some context to the Djokovic question and whether it's right to coerce him in to taking something that could (albeit unlikely) end his career. And more than that force him to disclosing that private medical info |
An adverse reaction, albeit highly unlikely (women on the pill are more likely to get a blood clot, for example) could end anyone’s career. Yours, mine, anyone. Why is he so special?
Edit: i’m not saying he should be coerced just that I don’t see how his career is more important than anyone else's. Again, we are back to the point of if he doesn’t want a jab that’s his choice but he has to bear the consequences of not being allowed in places. [Post edited 14 Jan 2022 18:27]
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| Well Done Australia on 19:00 - Jan 14 with 2116 views | SawCon |
| Well Done Australia on 18:18 - Jan 14 by Juzzie |
An adverse reaction, albeit highly unlikely (women on the pill are more likely to get a blood clot, for example) could end anyone’s career. Yours, mine, anyone. Why is he so special?
Edit: i’m not saying he should be coerced just that I don’t see how his career is more important than anyone else's. Again, we are back to the point of if he doesn’t want a jab that’s his choice but he has to bear the consequences of not being allowed in places. [Post edited 14 Jan 2022 18:27]
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Women aren't coerced into taking the pill. It's something they take willingly because the perceived benefits outweigh the perceived risks so not sure that comparison is relevant
EDIT- the pill also increases women’s tiddy size so as a fan of big tiddys I think there’s no question on the cost benefit analysis
Think that's a contradiction in terms what you say. I don't think you can have the view he shouldnt be coerced but then say he must face the consequences. That is literally coercion. So you subconsciously do support medical procedure coercion by the State
Djokovic has made a personal choice that the benefits don't outweigh the risk and I am not comfortable with a society (especially as one as grossly overweight as western society is) coercing a person at peak fitness or any level of fitness really into taking something they don't want that isn't risk free
Do you think it's possible to make a clear case for the benefits of somebody of Djokovics age and BMI to take the vaccine versus the risks of taking it? Because if you can't i don't think in good conscience anyone should encourage such medical coercion [Post edited 14 Jan 2022 19:19]
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| Well Done Australia on 19:36 - Jan 14 with 2062 views | kensalriser |
| Well Done Australia on 19:00 - Jan 14 by SawCon |
Women aren't coerced into taking the pill. It's something they take willingly because the perceived benefits outweigh the perceived risks so not sure that comparison is relevant
EDIT- the pill also increases women’s tiddy size so as a fan of big tiddys I think there’s no question on the cost benefit analysis
Think that's a contradiction in terms what you say. I don't think you can have the view he shouldnt be coerced but then say he must face the consequences. That is literally coercion. So you subconsciously do support medical procedure coercion by the State
Djokovic has made a personal choice that the benefits don't outweigh the risk and I am not comfortable with a society (especially as one as grossly overweight as western society is) coercing a person at peak fitness or any level of fitness really into taking something they don't want that isn't risk free
Do you think it's possible to make a clear case for the benefits of somebody of Djokovics age and BMI to take the vaccine versus the risks of taking it? Because if you can't i don't think in good conscience anyone should encourage such medical coercion [Post edited 14 Jan 2022 19:19]
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It would probably be helpful to point out that the daily sceptic website is run by highly biased wackjob and all round extremely unpleasant gobshite Toby Young. [Post edited 15 Jan 2022 12:30]
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| Well Done Australia on 20:26 - Jan 14 with 1993 views | The_Beast1976 |
Yes, ND has probably broken the 'rules'. But ND is not the problem, the rules are the problem. They shouldn't exist and probably should never have done. Focusing anger on ND breaking the 'rules', rather than the fact the rules are an ass, doesn't help anyone other than the authorities IMO.
I guess it's difficult to accept that we've all largely been conned (including myself for about 9 months in 2020, before it finally dawned on me that this will probably be looked back on in the future as the biggest overreaction in history).
I wish ND the best of luck. It may help bring about a speedier end to the continued madness [Post edited 14 Jan 2022 20:49]
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| Well Done Australia on 21:23 - Jan 14 with 1943 views | SawCon |
| Well Done Australia on 19:36 - Jan 14 by kensalriser |
It would probably be helpful to point out that the daily sceptic website is run by highly biased wackjob and all round extremely unpleasant gobshite Toby Young. [Post edited 15 Jan 2022 12:30]
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Why is that relevant when quoting directly from the Oxford University study? | | | |
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| Well Done Australia on 21:52 - Jan 14 with 1905 views | traininvain |
Swings and roundabouts: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60003289
Important to remember that myocarditis is a very rare side effect of mRNA vaccines whereas it’s one of many (predominantly lung / breathing) potential issues from catching Covid.
E.g. my mate has long Covid. Unvaccinated. Fit and healthy, used to be able run long distance etc. Can barely run a couple of miles after catching Covid in November. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 22:47 - Jan 14 with 1836 views | kensalriser |
| Well Done Australia on 21:23 - Jan 14 by SawCon |
Why is that relevant when quoting directly from the Oxford University study? |
Because it's highly likely to be biased, cherry-picked, decontextualised and unreliable.
Myocarditis following a covid vaccine is a long-running trope beloved of anti-vaxxers. In fact all the evidence finds it to be very rare, not serious and a lower risk than contracting covid. Here's one example from the US.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8272967/
"This pooled analysis of the available data shows several important findings. First, myocarditis related to COVID-19 vaccines mostly occurs in young male individuals following the second dose of the vaccine. Second, myocarditis related to COVID vaccines mostly occurs with mRNA vaccines (ie, Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines). Third, in all the reported cases of myocarditis related to COVID-19 vaccine, clinical symptoms resolved within 6 days with preservation of the cardiac function. Third, no complications were reported in any of these patients. This analysis shows that myocarditis related to COVID-19 vaccine has an overall fast recovery with no short-term complications." | |
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| Well Done Australia on 23:37 - Jan 14 with 1800 views | LythamR |
| Well Done Australia on 20:26 - Jan 14 by The_Beast1976 |
Yes, ND has probably broken the 'rules'. But ND is not the problem, the rules are the problem. They shouldn't exist and probably should never have done. Focusing anger on ND breaking the 'rules', rather than the fact the rules are an ass, doesn't help anyone other than the authorities IMO.
I guess it's difficult to accept that we've all largely been conned (including myself for about 9 months in 2020, before it finally dawned on me that this will probably be looked back on in the future as the biggest overreaction in history).
I wish ND the best of luck. It may help bring about a speedier end to the continued madness [Post edited 14 Jan 2022 20:49]
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"They shouldn't exist and probably should never have done"
5.4 million people have died of this virus in its various forms and many millions more have and still are suffering long term effects
Can you not imagine what the situation would have been like without the lockdowns, social distancing and vaccines?
it would have been absolute carnage |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 03:20 - Jan 15 with 1739 views | Match82 |
| Well Done Australia on 19:00 - Jan 14 by SawCon |
Women aren't coerced into taking the pill. It's something they take willingly because the perceived benefits outweigh the perceived risks so not sure that comparison is relevant
EDIT- the pill also increases women’s tiddy size so as a fan of big tiddys I think there’s no question on the cost benefit analysis
Think that's a contradiction in terms what you say. I don't think you can have the view he shouldnt be coerced but then say he must face the consequences. That is literally coercion. So you subconsciously do support medical procedure coercion by the State
Djokovic has made a personal choice that the benefits don't outweigh the risk and I am not comfortable with a society (especially as one as grossly overweight as western society is) coercing a person at peak fitness or any level of fitness really into taking something they don't want that isn't risk free
Do you think it's possible to make a clear case for the benefits of somebody of Djokovics age and BMI to take the vaccine versus the risks of taking it? Because if you can't i don't think in good conscience anyone should encourage such medical coercion [Post edited 14 Jan 2022 19:19]
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I think the bottom two paragraphs are interesting.
I am 100% in favour of vaccinations COVID or otherwise, they are a major scientific breakthrough and have made life better in a huge number of ways for decades and saved countless lives. I'm fully vaccinated and boosted for COVID and other things. But I am uncomfortable with the idea of forcing anyone to do it My personal view is that nobody should be forced to get the vaccine or any vaccine if they don't want to.
HOWEVER, how fcking tragic is it that we live in a society where only your own well being is considered? Djokovic has almost zero risk of getting badly sick from COVID and almost zero risk of getting sick from the vaccine. But by not getting it he's increasing the chance that he'll catch it and pass it on to someone where it could have a potentially fatal impact. That just seems so utterly selfish to me. And the only thing more tragic than that are the people that are actively making up and circulating false rumors for some bizarre attempt at political or personal gain which lead people to question the true science.
I respect that people have different views on this and I personally wouldn't force anybody to do it, but my god this whole fcking thing would be over, or at least have a fraction of the impact if everyone medically eligible got the vaccination by personal choice. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 07:04 - Jan 15 with 1673 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Well Done Australia on 23:37 - Jan 14 by LythamR |
"They shouldn't exist and probably should never have done"
5.4 million people have died of this virus in its various forms and many millions more have and still are suffering long term effects
Can you not imagine what the situation would have been like without the lockdowns, social distancing and vaccines?
it would have been absolute carnage |
I doubt it (as can be seen by the 'rule makers' largely ignoring the 'rules' and having parties - they knew the risks were negligible). Come on, this is nowhere near as serious as has been made out for the last 2 years (a conclusion which many people are now reaching) and is certainly not a good enough reason to force people to take a vaccine that doesn't even stop people getting a virus and passing it on). It's hard to accept when you've been conned, but conned we have been. That's my view, reached over the last 2 years and having considered all the evidence I have seen/heard from all manner of sources.
I'm at a loss as to when humanity decided that life was risk free and we should all be immortal. It's absolutely nuts.
[Post edited 15 Jan 2022 9:35]
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| Well Done Australia on 07:11 - Jan 15 with 1671 views | PunteR |
Oh look .. this thread is still a thing..lol |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Well Done Australia on 09:10 - Jan 15 with 1624 views | SawCon |
| Well Done Australia on 22:47 - Jan 14 by kensalriser |
Because it's highly likely to be biased, cherry-picked, decontextualised and unreliable.
Myocarditis following a covid vaccine is a long-running trope beloved of anti-vaxxers. In fact all the evidence finds it to be very rare, not serious and a lower risk than contracting covid. Here's one example from the US.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8272967/
"This pooled analysis of the available data shows several important findings. First, myocarditis related to COVID-19 vaccines mostly occurs in young male individuals following the second dose of the vaccine. Second, myocarditis related to COVID vaccines mostly occurs with mRNA vaccines (ie, Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines). Third, in all the reported cases of myocarditis related to COVID-19 vaccine, clinical symptoms resolved within 6 days with preservation of the cardiac function. Third, no complications were reported in any of these patients. This analysis shows that myocarditis related to COVID-19 vaccine has an overall fast recovery with no short-term complications." |
Firstly it’s extremely unfair and I think you yourself probably know it’s wrong to say “anti vaxxer” the issue is whether a coerced medical procedure that does carry risk (albeit small)is ok
I don’t think there’s anyone making the argument the vaccines carry a high risk. It’s an extremely low risk. But so is catching Covid itself especially in Djokovic category. And as the Oxford uni data shows there isn’t much in it at all. Swings and roundabouts as traininvain says with Aubameyang out for one game. So is that enough to coerce people to have a medical procedure they don’t want
You can still catch and spread it while vaccinated as well
So I’m struggling to see a case for why we should as a society force anyone to do anything with their body they don’t want to. And if we do then it’s also appropriate to do the same for smokers and the overweight for the strain they bring to the health service | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 09:39 - Jan 15 with 1576 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Well Done Australia on 09:10 - Jan 15 by SawCon |
Firstly it’s extremely unfair and I think you yourself probably know it’s wrong to say “anti vaxxer” the issue is whether a coerced medical procedure that does carry risk (albeit small)is ok
I don’t think there’s anyone making the argument the vaccines carry a high risk. It’s an extremely low risk. But so is catching Covid itself especially in Djokovic category. And as the Oxford uni data shows there isn’t much in it at all. Swings and roundabouts as traininvain says with Aubameyang out for one game. So is that enough to coerce people to have a medical procedure they don’t want
You can still catch and spread it while vaccinated as well
So I’m struggling to see a case for why we should as a society force anyone to do anything with their body they don’t want to. And if we do then it’s also appropriate to do the same for smokers and the overweight for the strain they bring to the health service |
"So I’m struggling to see a case for why we should as a society force anyone to do anything with their body they don’t want to. And if we do then it’s also appropriate to do the same for smokers and the overweight for the strain they bring to the health service"
I agree with you. It seems a few others on here are also now thinking along the same lines. So many people saying "You're a danger to my health and to the NHS" (which is, in fact, largely untrue given that the vaccines 'wear off' over time and are of little effect in stopping acquisition and transmission) as they sit back stuffing junk food into their under-exercised, significantly overweight bodyframes. Oh the irony..... [Post edited 15 Jan 2022 11:32]
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| Well Done Australia on 10:43 - Jan 15 with 1529 views | EastR |
2-5 in the fifth | |
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| Well Done Australia on 12:50 - Jan 15 with 1464 views | kensalriser |
| Well Done Australia on 09:10 - Jan 15 by SawCon |
Firstly it’s extremely unfair and I think you yourself probably know it’s wrong to say “anti vaxxer” the issue is whether a coerced medical procedure that does carry risk (albeit small)is ok
I don’t think there’s anyone making the argument the vaccines carry a high risk. It’s an extremely low risk. But so is catching Covid itself especially in Djokovic category. And as the Oxford uni data shows there isn’t much in it at all. Swings and roundabouts as traininvain says with Aubameyang out for one game. So is that enough to coerce people to have a medical procedure they don’t want
You can still catch and spread it while vaccinated as well
So I’m struggling to see a case for why we should as a society force anyone to do anything with their body they don’t want to. And if we do then it’s also appropriate to do the same for smokers and the overweight for the strain they bring to the health service |
Literally no-one here has ever said anything in favour of 'coercive' vaccination so you're arguing against fresh air there.
I'm so tired with all this lunatic anti-science bs that gullible people parrot from sources often run by people who deliberately and knowingly spread misinformation and bs because they make money from it. It really pisses me off that all this interminable mental shit infects a messageboard I come to to mostly talk about the football club I suppport.
And no saying anti-vaxxer isn't wrong, is this another whiny self-victimisation meme from the misinformation industry?
For the rest refer to Match 82's post above. | |
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| Well Done Australia on 01:05 - Jan 16 with 1320 views | SydneyRs |
Fed court hearing currently on YouTube if anyone can't sleep. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 01:16 - Jan 16 with 1310 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Well Done Australia on 19:36 - Jan 14 by kensalriser |
It would probably be helpful to point out that the daily sceptic website is run by highly biased wackjob and all round extremely unpleasant gobshite Toby Young. [Post edited 15 Jan 2022 12:30]
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This account is two days old. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 07:38 - Jan 16 with 1805 views | SydneyRs |
It's official, he's out. Unanimous decision by the 3 judges. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 07:45 - Jan 16 with 1781 views | PlanetHonneywood |
There was a time only convicts got into Australia… |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 07:55 - Jan 16 with 1767 views | ahoz |
Ashamed to be (sort of) an Australian... | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 08:22 - Jan 16 with 1723 views | SawCon |
| Well Done Australia on 12:50 - Jan 15 by kensalriser |
Literally no-one here has ever said anything in favour of 'coercive' vaccination so you're arguing against fresh air there.
I'm so tired with all this lunatic anti-science bs that gullible people parrot from sources often run by people who deliberately and knowingly spread misinformation and bs because they make money from it. It really pisses me off that all this interminable mental shit infects a messageboard I come to to mostly talk about the football club I suppport.
And no saying anti-vaxxer isn't wrong, is this another whiny self-victimisation meme from the misinformation industry?
For the rest refer to Match 82's post above. |
"Literally no-one here has ever said anything in favour of 'coercive' vaccination so you're arguing against fresh air there"
Find that statement so interesting and really would appreciate if you could help me understand how you take that view.
To give a couple of examples and startling with the OP which sets the tone for that whole thread:
"Cancelling the visa for the arrogant anti-Vaxer Djorkovic. Never liked the bloke. Let’s hope other countries follow suit"
Then a recent direct example from Juzzies post Jan 14:
"if he doesn’t want a jab that’s his choice but he has to bear the consequences of not being allowed in places"
So then to consider what coercion is it's defined as:
"the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats."
Telling Djokovic if you don't have this medical procedure that you don't want then you have "to bear the consequences".
A threat is "to inflict a hostile action on someone in retribution for something not done"
So to me it seems clear using those examples and everything about this specific case of Djokovic more generally. He is being threatened with a hostile action (visa revoked and with it his right to play in this Grand Slam and earn millions of dollars) in retribution for not carrying out the action of a medical procedure he doesn't want. And this has now been followed through on
Can you help me understand how you see it as anything other than coercion? | | | |
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