| Jake Daniels 18:57 - May 16 with 10072 views | EastR |
Well done young man here's hoping the support far outweighs the detractors, as well it should. |  |
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| Jake Daniels on 21:28 - May 18 with 2090 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
We’re making progress I think. Lovely sentiments on here, including from fans I expect used to think differently in the 70s / 80s / 90s but have come around.
Gay footballers were being boycotted by their families and teammates and committing suicide 30 years ago now we just have to deal with tedious but irrelevant basement culture war junkies on a football forum.
As ever, if you have the opportunity to make life pleasant for someone with zero cost to yourself why wouldn’t you take it? Dieng and his muppet mate included. [Post edited 18 May 2022 23:03]
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| Jake Daniels on 21:31 - May 18 with 2078 views | daveB |
Isn't homosexuality illegal in Senegal so it's a very different culture and attitude towards this.
Deing isn't alone in offering support, doesn't seem the smartest thing to do but I do think if a player feels that strongly about it and doesn't want to wear the rainbow symbol then he shouldn't have to. I don't agree with him and seems a mad thing to make a stand against but I don't agree with James McClean refusing to wear a poppy but have no problem with him going ahead with it, I don't mind if players choose to take the knee or not, should be a personal choice with these political gestures. I think if this PSG player faces a ban or a punishment we're going down a difficult road in forcing opinions on people. There are a hell of a lot of people on this planet who believe in a religion where being gay is seen as a sin. |  | | |
| Jake Daniels on 21:33 - May 18 with 2064 views | WatfordR |
| Jake Daniels on 20:49 - May 18 by toboboly |
Then he should probably bugger off to a country where homophobia is fine. Happy to take the money but a complete c unt when it comes to this.
*rant not aimed at you Watford just the hypocrisy of players |
No offence taken tobo. I was really trying to explain Sheffield's comment which I thought maybe hadn't been interpreted as he'd intended.
I haven't seen any explanation for the PSG guy's actions, and I'm a little reluctant to judge on assumptions that I might jump to. |  | | |
| Jake Daniels on 21:41 - May 18 with 2021 views | toboboly |
| Jake Daniels on 21:31 - May 18 by daveB |
Isn't homosexuality illegal in Senegal so it's a very different culture and attitude towards this.
Deing isn't alone in offering support, doesn't seem the smartest thing to do but I do think if a player feels that strongly about it and doesn't want to wear the rainbow symbol then he shouldn't have to. I don't agree with him and seems a mad thing to make a stand against but I don't agree with James McClean refusing to wear a poppy but have no problem with him going ahead with it, I don't mind if players choose to take the knee or not, should be a personal choice with these political gestures. I think if this PSG player faces a ban or a punishment we're going down a difficult road in forcing opinions on people. There are a hell of a lot of people on this planet who believe in a religion where being gay is seen as a sin. |
Completely get where your coming from, but, I am constantly being told that as a white man I shouldn't air my views on a number of subjects. The same goes here, I don't care what being someone claims to worship they can get to fcukery if they think that means they can be bigoted |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Jake Daniels on 21:42 - May 18 with 2026 views | WatfordR |
| Jake Daniels on 21:06 - May 18 by Northernr |
Ok, but Seny doesn’t have to support that does he. And like I say surely intelligent enough to know that this time his opinion isn’t vital, either say something nice about the kid or keep it to yourself.
I’ve very low tolerance for ppl who are religious when it suits. You can’t run around with Football Index on your shirt but then object to a rainbow number. That’s just using your supposed religion as a front for actually just not liking the gays. |
As I've said above, it would be easy to jump to a conclusion as to the right and wrongs here without knowing what the guy's rationale was.
Seny's an international colleague, may know exactly what the whole story is, and may well be quite reasonably supporting the guy. Or they may both be completely homophobic. I don't know. And perhaps they both need to be a little more media savvy about it all.
But you know, social media. Personally I could live my entire life without it all, apart from LFW obvs  | | | |
| Jake Daniels on 21:45 - May 18 with 2017 views | Northernr |
| Jake Daniels on 21:31 - May 18 by daveB |
Isn't homosexuality illegal in Senegal so it's a very different culture and attitude towards this.
Deing isn't alone in offering support, doesn't seem the smartest thing to do but I do think if a player feels that strongly about it and doesn't want to wear the rainbow symbol then he shouldn't have to. I don't agree with him and seems a mad thing to make a stand against but I don't agree with James McClean refusing to wear a poppy but have no problem with him going ahead with it, I don't mind if players choose to take the knee or not, should be a personal choice with these political gestures. I think if this PSG player faces a ban or a punishment we're going down a difficult road in forcing opinions on people. There are a hell of a lot of people on this planet who believe in a religion where being gay is seen as a sin. |
Hmmm I’ll withdraw and leave it at very, very, personally disappointed. |  | | |
| Jake Daniels on 21:55 - May 18 with 1987 views | Harbour |
Good Luck Jake I hope you do not get abuse from the terraces but would not be surprised if you do. Regretably homophobia is still rife in society and like others I have heard it at LR. I was sat in the lower school end for the Brighton game a few seasons ago and some of the abuse from our own supporters directed to the away support was not banter it was vile and disgusting abuse. I would like to think things have moved on and the club has its own rainbow branch with a flag in the upper loft so here’s hoping such abuse will not be heard again in the ground you can but hope and report it if heard again and any offenders should be banned. | | | |
| Jake Daniels on 22:04 - May 18 with 1952 views | daveB |
| Jake Daniels on 21:41 - May 18 by toboboly |
Completely get where your coming from, but, I am constantly being told that as a white man I shouldn't air my views on a number of subjects. The same goes here, I don't care what being someone claims to worship they can get to fcukery if they think that means they can be bigoted |
I think if he airs his views and says something homophobic then he's rightly gonna have the book thrown at him but football ties itself in knots with all the political and social gestures they want to get involved in wear a symbol for this cause, a different one for that, take a knee, clap, stand behind banners it's always going to bring up these kind of problems when a small minority of players don't want to join in. | | | |
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| Jake Daniels on 22:05 - May 18 with 1943 views | daveB |
| Jake Daniels on 21:45 - May 18 by Northernr |
Hmmm I’ll withdraw and leave it at very, very, personally disappointed. |
should say not trying to defend Deing even slightly, think he's wrong and very stupid to get involved | | | |
| Jake Daniels on 22:28 - May 18 with 1871 views | kensalriser |
| Jake Daniels on 21:45 - May 18 by Northernr |
Hmmm I’ll withdraw and leave it at very, very, personally disappointed. |
I’m thinking Fock him and his religiously based bigoted bullshit. I wonder if he takes offence at being on the receiving end of discrimination? |  |
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| Jake Daniels on 00:02 - May 19 with 1788 views | numptydumpty |
| Jake Daniels on 22:28 - May 18 by kensalriser |
I’m thinking Fock him and his religiously based bigoted bullshit. I wonder if he takes offence at being on the receiving end of discrimination? |
If Dieng has his views based more likely because of his cultural background and if as was pointed out, him actually accepting this could put family members in danger in his native lands, can understand, even if I don't agree.
But what if there is a player at our club would be awkward if there were a few players that had leanings towards homophobia for whatever reasons.
I have a friend who is gay but he does not allow himself to be, because he goes to a Christian church where some have actually prayed for him to be rid of his affliction. It's mad.
And a colleague who is as camp as they come and in long term relationship with a man. I think for a lot of under 25s native to UK, this is not a big deal at all.
I live near a 16 to 18 college and you get transvestite students, boys and girls clearly and very openly LGBTQ, and none of them bat an eyelid.
Which is progress...
Surprised its not happened sooner.
But particularly at highest level, football squads are very multi national and very multi cultural also so views could vary massively.
I think it's probably not happened much in football mainly because of expected abuse from the terraces or even more prevalent on social media perhaps. |  |
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| Jake Daniels on 01:10 - May 19 with 1710 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Jake Daniels on 20:19 - May 18 by WatfordR |
I'm sure Sheffield can speak for himself, but I took his comment to mean that, perhaps if the PSG keeper has family in a country where homophobia is more the cultural norm, then wearing a shirt which appears to oppose that norm could be dangerous for his family. |
Yeah I was speaking more generally about the Senegal players who've shown support to Gueye. The Senegalese President has tweeted "I support Idrissa Gana Gueye. His religious beliefs must be respected" - You can't expect these guys to jeopardise their reputations at home, which can result in who knows what for them and their families. We have no idea what's going around in the Senegalese media (Particularly social) about it.
I'm sure Seny would treat any QPR player with the same respect he treats everyone else, whatever their sexuality. He does not strike me as an overly-confrontational bad egg, I've seen no evidence that he makes anybody uncomfortable. Another woke over-reaction on LFW. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Jake Daniels on 08:39 - May 19 with 1594 views | BklynRanger |
| Jake Daniels on 01:10 - May 19 by SheffieldHoop |
Yeah I was speaking more generally about the Senegal players who've shown support to Gueye. The Senegalese President has tweeted "I support Idrissa Gana Gueye. His religious beliefs must be respected" - You can't expect these guys to jeopardise their reputations at home, which can result in who knows what for them and their families. We have no idea what's going around in the Senegalese media (Particularly social) about it.
I'm sure Seny would treat any QPR player with the same respect he treats everyone else, whatever their sexuality. He does not strike me as an overly-confrontational bad egg, I've seen no evidence that he makes anybody uncomfortable. Another woke over-reaction on LFW. |
Bingo - job done - finally got to use 'woke over-reaction'. Again.
It wasn't really working with the 'just a bit of banter' line - too domestic, but broadening it out to the need for a proper understanding of the context in Senegal somehow has got you there.
Best to stick with things as they are and have the same number of young people feeling comfortable about coming out over the next 30 years. Just in case somebody over-reacts or makes a well-intended suggestion in the meantime. |  | | |
| Jake Daniels on 11:05 - May 19 with 1503 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Jake Daniels on 08:39 - May 19 by BklynRanger |
Bingo - job done - finally got to use 'woke over-reaction'. Again.
It wasn't really working with the 'just a bit of banter' line - too domestic, but broadening it out to the need for a proper understanding of the context in Senegal somehow has got you there.
Best to stick with things as they are and have the same number of young people feeling comfortable about coming out over the next 30 years. Just in case somebody over-reacts or makes a well-intended suggestion in the meantime. |
Soz, had a few pints watching the final, didn't mean to offend you, but also couldn't resist  | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Jake Daniels on 11:35 - May 19 with 1477 views | BklynRanger |
| Jake Daniels on 11:05 - May 19 by SheffieldHoop |
Soz, had a few pints watching the final, didn't mean to offend you, but also couldn't resist |
Fine then - looks like we're hugging this out...  | | | |
| Jake Daniels on 12:03 - May 19 with 1416 views | WadR |
| Jake Daniels on 01:10 - May 19 by SheffieldHoop |
Yeah I was speaking more generally about the Senegal players who've shown support to Gueye. The Senegalese President has tweeted "I support Idrissa Gana Gueye. His religious beliefs must be respected" - You can't expect these guys to jeopardise their reputations at home, which can result in who knows what for them and their families. We have no idea what's going around in the Senegalese media (Particularly social) about it.
I'm sure Seny would treat any QPR player with the same respect he treats everyone else, whatever their sexuality. He does not strike me as an overly-confrontational bad egg, I've seen no evidence that he makes anybody uncomfortable. Another woke over-reaction on LFW. |
As pointed out earlier in this thread, Dieng could've posted nothing at all. He's not obligated to post a message of solidarity with Gueye, nor would he be 'jeopardising his reputation at home' by saying nothing. His family have lived in Switzerland since he was born, they would've hardly needed to go under house arrest if Dieng had not said anything.
I think what it is in indicative of is the environment of dressing rooms. I'd guess Dieng sees a teammate being attacked and expresses a message of support for him. I think it highlights why Jake Daniels is so brave and laudable and why it's important and newsworthy. Dressing rooms can be lads clubs and exclusionary - imagine how that would feel to see if you're a gay Senegalese player or a gay QPR player. Sure, Dieng doesn't seem a bad egg or confrontational but if the anti LGBT views are so pervasive in football dressing rooms that players like Dieng are expressing them, what does it say about football and footballers? | | | |
| Jake Daniels on 12:12 - May 19 with 1365 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Jake Daniels on 12:03 - May 19 by WadR |
As pointed out earlier in this thread, Dieng could've posted nothing at all. He's not obligated to post a message of solidarity with Gueye, nor would he be 'jeopardising his reputation at home' by saying nothing. His family have lived in Switzerland since he was born, they would've hardly needed to go under house arrest if Dieng had not said anything.
I think what it is in indicative of is the environment of dressing rooms. I'd guess Dieng sees a teammate being attacked and expresses a message of support for him. I think it highlights why Jake Daniels is so brave and laudable and why it's important and newsworthy. Dressing rooms can be lads clubs and exclusionary - imagine how that would feel to see if you're a gay Senegalese player or a gay QPR player. Sure, Dieng doesn't seem a bad egg or confrontational but if the anti LGBT views are so pervasive in football dressing rooms that players like Dieng are expressing them, what does it say about football and footballers? |
As I've said earlier in the thread, we have no idea how this is being spoken about/percieved on social media in Senegal. Have a look at this - https://en.africatopsports.com/2022/05/18/senegal-president-supports-psg-star-id
It's clearly become a story in Senegal. We don't know exactly how this impacts on Seny and his family. Let's not just assume the worst about one of our own players for once, shall we? | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Jake Daniels on 12:53 - May 19 with 1330 views | hubble |
Why should *any* player be forced to promote *any* political, social or culturla agenda? Football has become yet another arm of mainstream propaganda, to its detriment. Whether it is specifically enforced or not, the tacit implication is that players have no choice but to accede. And that seems to be the prevailing opinion here. Cultural orthodoxy is now so widespread that people don't even notice it. Unless, of course, someone deviates from the narratative, as has happened here. |  |
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| Jake Daniels on 13:15 - May 19 with 1296 views | NW5Hoop |
| Jake Daniels on 16:31 - May 18 by SheffieldHoop |
1) Is that why we sing "The finest football team the world has ever seen" - Mocking ourselves?
2) Yeh it's quite obvious you can't take a joke |
Nah. I just like good jokes. Not ones made by bigots. | | | |
| Jake Daniels on 13:45 - May 19 with 1234 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Jake Daniels on 12:53 - May 19 by hubble |
Why should *any* player be forced to promote *any* political, social or culturla agenda? Football has become yet another arm of mainstream propaganda, to its detriment. Whether it is specifically enforced or not, the tacit implication is that players have no choice but to accede. And that seems to be the prevailing opinion here. Cultural orthodoxy is now so widespread that people don't even notice it. Unless, of course, someone deviates from the narratative, as has happened here. |
Just the nature of the fans who predominantly use this site, or certainly the more influential posters anyway. Very plugged in to the media, highly elitist, and fairly snobbish, which results in conversations on here that are more akin to a Twitter Moments feed than a conversation between Blue & White bar regulars. Almost like LFW uses the same algorithm to find which posts to amplify - Except here, there is no algorithm and these are simply the responses you get. I think the QPR podcast (The one with Finney) suffers similar issues. Bit of an echo chamber, and on the rare occasion you do get fans on here, or the podcast, with an opposing point of view, they tend to be treated with disdain. That's why a lot of the fans on here who agree (And there are quite a lot, and amongst them are some of the best ever posters on this forum) don't often step forward or have simply stopped using the messageboard part of the site altogether. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Jake Daniels on 14:19 - May 19 with 1209 views | ngbqpr |
| Jake Daniels on 12:53 - May 19 by hubble |
Why should *any* player be forced to promote *any* political, social or culturla agenda? Football has become yet another arm of mainstream propaganda, to its detriment. Whether it is specifically enforced or not, the tacit implication is that players have no choice but to accede. And that seems to be the prevailing opinion here. Cultural orthodoxy is now so widespread that people don't even notice it. Unless, of course, someone deviates from the narratative, as has happened here. |
This isn't about 'agendas'. Racism, homophobia, all forms of discriminating against individuals based simply on how they look or choose to live their lives goes beyond the cultural, social or political. It's about how we treat our fellow beings on the most basic of levels - do we want to do so with respect and compassion, or not?
This isn't anything to do with 'cultural orthodoxy' or some supposed 'narrative' - if there's any narrative at all at play here, it's the one that the marginalised and victims of discrimination have had to fight against for centuries, namely that others can get away with discriminating against them. Or the assertions made about so called 'cancel culture' thrown up as a reflective shield the moment it's suggested certain discriminatory behaviour is not acceptable on a basic human level. I would venture to suggest the 'mainstream propaganda' you refer to remains heavily weighted against victims of discrimination.
Dieng hasn't been 'forced' to do anything in this instance. He chose to post that message of support to Gueye, much like he chooses to take the knee - though unfortunately it would appear that when doing so, his stand is only against some forms of discrimination. |  |
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| Jake Daniels on 14:58 - May 19 with 1163 views | Northernr |
| Jake Daniels on 13:45 - May 19 by SheffieldHoop |
Just the nature of the fans who predominantly use this site, or certainly the more influential posters anyway. Very plugged in to the media, highly elitist, and fairly snobbish, which results in conversations on here that are more akin to a Twitter Moments feed than a conversation between Blue & White bar regulars. Almost like LFW uses the same algorithm to find which posts to amplify - Except here, there is no algorithm and these are simply the responses you get. I think the QPR podcast (The one with Finney) suffers similar issues. Bit of an echo chamber, and on the rare occasion you do get fans on here, or the podcast, with an opposing point of view, they tend to be treated with disdain. That's why a lot of the fans on here who agree (And there are quite a lot, and amongst them are some of the best ever posters on this forum) don't often step forward or have simply stopped using the messageboard part of the site altogether. |
Well, given that it's my site, I run it and I guess count as a prominent poster, and that's the podcast I at least used to appear on, and I work in the media, I'm struggling not take that a bit personally, or feel that it's at least in part directed at me.
We've known each other a long time, I wasn't aware of anything occurring that meant we were anything other than good mates, can I buy you a beer and talk about this in person rather than... this? | | | |
| Jake Daniels on 16:50 - May 19 with 984 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Jake Daniels on 14:58 - May 19 by Northernr |
Well, given that it's my site, I run it and I guess count as a prominent poster, and that's the podcast I at least used to appear on, and I work in the media, I'm struggling not take that a bit personally, or feel that it's at least in part directed at me.
We've known each other a long time, I wasn't aware of anything occurring that meant we were anything other than good mates, can I buy you a beer and talk about this in person rather than... this? |
Yeah of course mate - Please don't take this in a bad way, it's not a criticism of you personally and I think you do a brilliant job with this site. It's more a comment about the message board and the general tone on here, which I don't think you are a huge contributor to.....You have your moments but you're hardly at the forefront of it and usually stay pretty neutral. Likewise on the podcast. And I've not listened to the podcast since 2019, so what I'm saying may be entirely out of date with regards to that.
I've known you for more of my life than I haven't, and like you, I was a kid who got moved up north at a very awkward time in my life, and you're a part of my development into adulthood, learned loads from you which has enhanced my life. Just because we might not agree on a small set of things, we've still got more in common than not, and you're still someone I admire and respect. We're at the Barnes film festival @ Hammersmith Riverside next month if you're about. Be good to see you away from football. Take it easy, and don't let us bastards get you down. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Jake Daniels on 17:03 - May 19 with 956 views | SheffieldHoop |
You can come as well if you like  | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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