| Leicester turn loans into equity 11:24 - Feb 1 with 4879 views | stantheman10 |
Leicester's holding company have turned £194 million worth of loans into equity for the club. How is that allowed under FFP? |  | | |  |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 11:26 - Feb 1 with 3932 views | toboboly |
I wouldn't complain, don't we keep doing this? |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Leicester turn loans into equity on 11:29 - Feb 1 with 3906 views | Northernr |
Yeh that's what our owners do.
It doesn't stop the losses counting against FFP. |  | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:14 - Feb 1 with 3780 views | stantheman10 |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 11:29 - Feb 1 by Northernr |
Yeh that's what our owners do.
It doesn't stop the losses counting against FFP. |
The rules to FFP or whatever it's called now must be really complicated.
So what stops our owners (apart from not wanting to) from loaning us £100 million and then turning that into equity which would cover any losses we had made which sounds to me like what the Leicester owners have done. | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:26 - Feb 1 with 3708 views | Blue_Castello |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:14 - Feb 1 by stantheman10 |
The rules to FFP or whatever it's called now must be really complicated.
So what stops our owners (apart from not wanting to) from loaning us £100 million and then turning that into equity which would cover any losses we had made which sounds to me like what the Leicester owners have done. |
Because the FFP rules are far more stringent in the Championship than the Premiership, all sorts of losses are made in the Prem and clubs don't get punished , they are OK as long as they don't get relegated...
The topic has been discussed ad-infinitum on here, the bottom line we fell foul of the old FFP rules which were not fit for purpose and got punished, they then decided to revise them to make them less oppressive but as time has passed the only clubs they favour are the parachute clubs and the ones who know how to bend the rules, like Florist,I'm sure if we break them again were in big trouble.. [Post edited 1 Feb 2023 12:33]
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| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:31 - Feb 1 with 3675 views | Northernr |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:14 - Feb 1 by stantheman10 |
The rules to FFP or whatever it's called now must be really complicated.
So what stops our owners (apart from not wanting to) from loaning us £100 million and then turning that into equity which would cover any losses we had made which sounds to me like what the Leicester owners have done. |
That is what our owners do.
The club loses £20m in a season, the owners pay that bill, but instead of it accruing as debt they convert it to equity. But the £20m loss still counts against the FFP calculations.
This is why Ruben's shareholding has gone up and up, and Tony's has reduced - it's Ruben writing the cheque, then converting the debt into equity. | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:47 - Feb 1 with 3610 views | Blue_Castello |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:31 - Feb 1 by Northernr |
That is what our owners do.
The club loses £20m in a season, the owners pay that bill, but instead of it accruing as debt they convert it to equity. But the £20m loss still counts against the FFP calculations.
This is why Ruben's shareholding has gone up and up, and Tony's has reduced - it's Ruben writing the cheque, then converting the debt into equity. |
Something that I think plenty of people on here forget when evaluating the board, mistakes were made in the past but it is definitely the past and nobody is coming in to take us over with that size of debt hanging around, biggest problem for the club is a very low income stream against expenditure.
Question Clive if and when a club gets relegated to League One what exactly are the FFP rules are they the same, I got the impression from somebody else's post they are far less stringent and you can convert debt into equity.... | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:53 - Feb 1 with 3578 views | Rangersw12 |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:47 - Feb 1 by Blue_Castello |
Something that I think plenty of people on here forget when evaluating the board, mistakes were made in the past but it is definitely the past and nobody is coming in to take us over with that size of debt hanging around, biggest problem for the club is a very low income stream against expenditure.
Question Clive if and when a club gets relegated to League One what exactly are the FFP rules are they the same, I got the impression from somebody else's post they are far less stringent and you can convert debt into equity.... |
A very low income stream which makes it even worse that Hoos just shrugs his shoulders when questioned about what he's doing to get the ground full | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:55 - Feb 1 with 3571 views | Northernr |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:47 - Feb 1 by Blue_Castello |
Something that I think plenty of people on here forget when evaluating the board, mistakes were made in the past but it is definitely the past and nobody is coming in to take us over with that size of debt hanging around, biggest problem for the club is a very low income stream against expenditure.
Question Clive if and when a club gets relegated to League One what exactly are the FFP rules are they the same, I got the impression from somebody else's post they are far less stringent and you can convert debt into equity.... |
Well you can concert debt into equity in the Championship because it's what we do. The permitted losses over three years are lower in League One, and lower again in League Two. I will look them up. | | | |
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| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:01 - Feb 1 with 3538 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:53 - Feb 1 by Rangersw12 |
A very low income stream which makes it even worse that Hoos just shrugs his shoulders when questioned about what he's doing to get the ground full |
Ground being full not really the problem is it?
If we were doing well the fairweather fans would return. Tempting them back for a quid might help in the old week, but certainly won’t do anything remotely significant to help finances.
Said it before and say it again. I have loads of mates who’d happily come to the odd game - it ain’t price that puts them off it’s that they need to see a ‘kin chiropractor afterwards because our stadium is a fkn joke built for toddlers. |  |
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| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:08 - Feb 1 with 3493 views | toboboly |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:01 - Feb 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Ground being full not really the problem is it?
If we were doing well the fairweather fans would return. Tempting them back for a quid might help in the old week, but certainly won’t do anything remotely significant to help finances.
Said it before and say it again. I have loads of mates who’d happily come to the odd game - it ain’t price that puts them off it’s that they need to see a ‘kin chiropractor afterwards because our stadium is a fkn joke built for toddlers. |
But in lieu of not being able to magic extra leg room for the foreseeable other things must be utilised to get bums on seats.
kids for a quid (happening v Blackburn)
tickets for schools
lower walk up prices
negligible booking fee | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:15 - Feb 1 with 3450 views | BostonR |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:55 - Feb 1 by Northernr |
Well you can concert debt into equity in the Championship because it's what we do. The permitted losses over three years are lower in League One, and lower again in League Two. I will look them up. |
Clive -many idea how much the total debt amount is that Ruben has picked up? It must be nearing £80M plus. |  | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:16 - Feb 1 with 3443 views | Northernr |
Yeh at least. | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:23 - Feb 1 with 3405 views | wombat |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:16 - Feb 1 by Northernr |
Yeh at least. |
its ok according to many we will have loads of new buyers trying to buythe club according to some on facebook this week .the reason we are london club lol cant wait for the booing to start at the millwall game if we go one down . |  |
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| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:29 - Feb 1 with 3365 views | SimonD |
Any businesses accounts are in two sections known as Profit and Loss and Balance Sheet. The PnL reflects all of the revenues and costs resulting in a profit which is the starting point for FFP. The Balance Sheet shows the assets, liabilities and funding. Loans are one method of funding a business and shareholders’ equity is another so all they have done is swap £194m of one method of funding to another. This has no effect on the PnL and so is outside of the scope of FFP.
With regard to League One and Two FFP, the last time I looked (which is a few years ago), it worked on a soft wage cap based on revenue. There was an attempt to change this for a different wage cap a few years back, but that got bombed out. Transfer fees are, therefore, outside of FFP in those leagues, hence less stringent. It may be different now, but I doubt it is vastly different. | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:37 - Feb 1 with 3310 views | LongsufferingR |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:55 - Feb 1 by Northernr |
Well you can concert debt into equity in the Championship because it's what we do. The permitted losses over three years are lower in League One, and lower again in League Two. I will look them up. |
No need to look them up, we'll find out next year anyway. |  | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 14:57 - Feb 1 with 3096 views | daveB |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:01 - Feb 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Ground being full not really the problem is it?
If we were doing well the fairweather fans would return. Tempting them back for a quid might help in the old week, but certainly won’t do anything remotely significant to help finances.
Said it before and say it again. I have loads of mates who’d happily come to the odd game - it ain’t price that puts them off it’s that they need to see a ‘kin chiropractor afterwards because our stadium is a fkn joke built for toddlers. |
It wouldn't make a massive impact on matchday income but might see a buzz about the place with more people in the door, might improve home record and get a better chance of achieving something. |  | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 15:04 - Feb 1 with 3072 views | Northernr |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:29 - Feb 1 by SimonD |
Any businesses accounts are in two sections known as Profit and Loss and Balance Sheet. The PnL reflects all of the revenues and costs resulting in a profit which is the starting point for FFP. The Balance Sheet shows the assets, liabilities and funding. Loans are one method of funding a business and shareholders’ equity is another so all they have done is swap £194m of one method of funding to another. This has no effect on the PnL and so is outside of the scope of FFP.
With regard to League One and Two FFP, the last time I looked (which is a few years ago), it worked on a soft wage cap based on revenue. There was an attempt to change this for a different wage cap a few years back, but that got bombed out. Transfer fees are, therefore, outside of FFP in those leagues, hence less stringent. It may be different now, but I doubt it is vastly different. |
I think the wage caps were ruled unlawful, not sure what the score is down there now. | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 15:44 - Feb 1 with 2935 views | connell10 |
God I remember the good old days when it was just about football, now you need to be a accountant to understand all this malarkey...  |  |
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| Leicester turn loans into equity on 16:17 - Feb 1 with 2833 views | SimonD |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 15:04 - Feb 1 by Northernr |
I think the wage caps were ruled unlawful, not sure what the score is down there now. |
I think it was the second version which was a "hard" cap based on the same fixed limit for all cubs which was ruled unlawful. They returned to the original "soft" version which was, I think, 60% of revenue in League One and a smaller percentage in League Two.
It is called something snappy like Salary Cost Management Protocol. | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 16:20 - Feb 1 with 2813 views | Northernr |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 16:17 - Feb 1 by SimonD |
I think it was the second version which was a "hard" cap based on the same fixed limit for all cubs which was ruled unlawful. They returned to the original "soft" version which was, I think, 60% of revenue in League One and a smaller percentage in League Two.
It is called something snappy like Salary Cost Management Protocol. |
I love it when you talk dirty to me. | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 19:11 - Feb 1 with 2552 views | dubaistu |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:15 - Feb 1 by BostonR |
Clive -many idea how much the total debt amount is that Ruben has picked up? It must be nearing £80M plus. |
a few more years and he's got some prime real estate on the cheap to build a load of those lovely flats currently being built around london..... |  | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 19:31 - Feb 1 with 2499 views | stevec |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 13:08 - Feb 1 by toboboly |
But in lieu of not being able to magic extra leg room for the foreseeable other things must be utilised to get bums on seats.
kids for a quid (happening v Blackburn)
tickets for schools
lower walk up prices
negligible booking fee |
IMO they could actually magic some extra leg room just by taking the seat backs off and lowering them, but they can’t even be arsed to do that.
I suspect there’s some regulation somewhere that says seat backs must be positioned at a height that causes life long damage to kneecaps for anyone over the height of five foot six you lanky bastards. |  | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 19:39 - Feb 1 with 2474 views | BerkoRanger |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 15:44 - Feb 1 by connell10 |
God I remember the good old days when it was just about football, now you need to be a accountant to understand all this malarkey... |
And if we lost on the Saturday, there was a good chance we would buy a new player on the Monday..... | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 19:40 - Feb 1 with 2465 views | themodfather |
too many clubs getting round rules with loopholes, didn't they get the debts for new ground written off in admin? | | | |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 19:40 - Feb 1 with 2465 views | QPR_Jim |
| Leicester turn loans into equity on 12:47 - Feb 1 by Blue_Castello |
Something that I think plenty of people on here forget when evaluating the board, mistakes were made in the past but it is definitely the past and nobody is coming in to take us over with that size of debt hanging around, biggest problem for the club is a very low income stream against expenditure.
Question Clive if and when a club gets relegated to League One what exactly are the FFP rules are they the same, I got the impression from somebody else's post they are far less stringent and you can convert debt into equity.... |
When I looked into it, I came across the below site explaining it. It's called Salary Cost Management Plan rather than Financial Fair Play.
https://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php#:~:text=In%20League%201%20clubs%20c
"However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. In League 1 and League 2, a wealthy owner can therefore fund the club spending in a way that is not permitted in other divisions. Manchester City and Leicester for example seem set for punishment for their excessive losses (from UEFA and the Championship respectively) despite the fact that the owners have injected hard cash into the club to finance the spending."
Edit - Copied from my post on another thread. [Post edited 1 Feb 2023 19:42]
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