| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis 17:08 - May 3 with 9519 views | Northernr |
How have we stopped conceding, and started winning, while giving up possession almost in its entirety?
And for those who think Gareth Ainsworth is inflexible, well he's already flexed quite a bit away from his usual approach...
All this and more in Dan Lambert's final column of the season...
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:13 - May 4 with 3483 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 09:57 - May 4 by dmm |
John, you surprise me. Given your skills and training, I'd have thought you'd love detailed analysis. |
Well life, liberty, and justice does require one to pay attention, but you know, when it comes to kicking a ball I find I enjoy it more when it's kept as simple as possible. |  |
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:23 - May 4 with 3456 views | TheChef |
Interesting to note in the Blackburn game how far forward our players were in pressing their defence, clearly making it very easy for them to exploit space in behind once they were past our front line. So getting the players to drop deeper and be more compact was very much the way to go.
Curious to see if we will be more expansive in the Bristol, or how adaptive the players are. My feeling is - probably not. |  |
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:36 - May 4 with 3439 views | daveB |
It's a good article but for me the biggest change in the last 2 games has been teams have not taken chances against us. Stoke missed 2/3 very good chances and Burnley missed 5/6 which other teams in recent weeks were taking. Performance wise I don't see a big difference between that Stoke game and the recent Coventry one, the big difference was Coventry got in front early so we had to come out and play which left a lot of gaps.
Sorry I know I've gone full doom and gloom this week, I really hope I'm wrong |  | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:36 - May 4 with 3438 views | TheChef |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:36 - May 4 by daveB |
It's a good article but for me the biggest change in the last 2 games has been teams have not taken chances against us. Stoke missed 2/3 very good chances and Burnley missed 5/6 which other teams in recent weeks were taking. Performance wise I don't see a big difference between that Stoke game and the recent Coventry one, the big difference was Coventry got in front early so we had to come out and play which left a lot of gaps.
Sorry I know I've gone full doom and gloom this week, I really hope I'm wrong |
Cheer up Dave!  | |
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:41 - May 4 with 3427 views | joe90 |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:36 - May 4 by daveB |
It's a good article but for me the biggest change in the last 2 games has been teams have not taken chances against us. Stoke missed 2/3 very good chances and Burnley missed 5/6 which other teams in recent weeks were taking. Performance wise I don't see a big difference between that Stoke game and the recent Coventry one, the big difference was Coventry got in front early so we had to come out and play which left a lot of gaps.
Sorry I know I've gone full doom and gloom this week, I really hope I'm wrong |
I think that's a fair point.
We haven't played enough games to judge the effectiveness of this strategy, but non the less, it is worth understanding what we're doing.
This article is about what we do out of possession (as the title says) and we've spent more time out of possession over the past few games so it's hard to really judge anything else! |  | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:48 - May 4 with 3418 views | daveB |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:36 - May 4 by TheChef |
Cheer up Dave! |
I have gone full scrooge this week | | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 11:04 - May 4 with 3380 views | ozranger |
I know this should go into a different thread probably, but there is a question that I would like to see answered in these which is why we are so much "out of possession" as opposed to just getting close to 50-50. Sure, against Burnley and Stoke we were 20-80 in possession, but both those teams are possession type teams, as could be clearly seen in the Stoke game. However, even when we do have possession, we seem to like to give it away. The goal at Stoke - we said just before it that we have passed to our players three times and that must mean a goal, which incredibly it did. During the whole of the remainder of the match we hardly had more than two consecutive passes between our players.
However, and something I brought up at the game, we put ourselves behind the ball more often than we need to. What I am getting at are that throw-ins are ostensibly a way of giving the ball away. Clive has already mentioned many times in his reports that we have a throw in the opposition half and it ends up with our keeper within short time. That was before. Now, we have chosen to have long throws all the time. These have an extremely small percentage of success - success equating to holding on to the ball for two passes from the throw - of about 5% or 10% at best. A quick throw to a nearby team mate, normally unmarked, and then a long ball to a forward or through the midfield has significant advantages.
What this has created is the need for players to be extra fit, something that also puts undue pressure on them mentally. The amount of energy required to defend is a lot more than what is required to attack. Stoke made it easy for us as a large number of their passes were in their own half (defending from the front, but not too far). All that said, it is worth noting that given we are so comfortable in presenting the opposition with large amounts of possession, it means that what Dan is showing is being practiced more and more each game. Thus, pity the season finishes on Monday. |  | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 12:13 - May 4 with 3241 views | Logman |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 11:04 - May 4 by ozranger |
I know this should go into a different thread probably, but there is a question that I would like to see answered in these which is why we are so much "out of possession" as opposed to just getting close to 50-50. Sure, against Burnley and Stoke we were 20-80 in possession, but both those teams are possession type teams, as could be clearly seen in the Stoke game. However, even when we do have possession, we seem to like to give it away. The goal at Stoke - we said just before it that we have passed to our players three times and that must mean a goal, which incredibly it did. During the whole of the remainder of the match we hardly had more than two consecutive passes between our players.
However, and something I brought up at the game, we put ourselves behind the ball more often than we need to. What I am getting at are that throw-ins are ostensibly a way of giving the ball away. Clive has already mentioned many times in his reports that we have a throw in the opposition half and it ends up with our keeper within short time. That was before. Now, we have chosen to have long throws all the time. These have an extremely small percentage of success - success equating to holding on to the ball for two passes from the throw - of about 5% or 10% at best. A quick throw to a nearby team mate, normally unmarked, and then a long ball to a forward or through the midfield has significant advantages.
What this has created is the need for players to be extra fit, something that also puts undue pressure on them mentally. The amount of energy required to defend is a lot more than what is required to attack. Stoke made it easy for us as a large number of their passes were in their own half (defending from the front, but not too far). All that said, it is worth noting that given we are so comfortable in presenting the opposition with large amounts of possession, it means that what Dan is showing is being practiced more and more each game. Thus, pity the season finishes on Monday. |
Good analysis.
I think the main reason why we are so poor with the ball is due to poor decision making. A large number of our players choose the wrong option on the ball or the wrong pass, meaning that possession is very quickly turned over.
And the main reason for this, in my opinion, is the managerial and tactical changes. The tactics themselves changed 3 times under Ainsworth alone, that is before all the changes which Michael Boil and Critchley tried.
Compare that with Coventry who have had the same manager for a number of years and you can see why they seem to be able to play against us with their eyes closed. [Post edited 4 May 2023 12:14]
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 13:05 - May 4 with 3169 views | Northernr |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 11:04 - May 4 by ozranger |
I know this should go into a different thread probably, but there is a question that I would like to see answered in these which is why we are so much "out of possession" as opposed to just getting close to 50-50. Sure, against Burnley and Stoke we were 20-80 in possession, but both those teams are possession type teams, as could be clearly seen in the Stoke game. However, even when we do have possession, we seem to like to give it away. The goal at Stoke - we said just before it that we have passed to our players three times and that must mean a goal, which incredibly it did. During the whole of the remainder of the match we hardly had more than two consecutive passes between our players.
However, and something I brought up at the game, we put ourselves behind the ball more often than we need to. What I am getting at are that throw-ins are ostensibly a way of giving the ball away. Clive has already mentioned many times in his reports that we have a throw in the opposition half and it ends up with our keeper within short time. That was before. Now, we have chosen to have long throws all the time. These have an extremely small percentage of success - success equating to holding on to the ball for two passes from the throw - of about 5% or 10% at best. A quick throw to a nearby team mate, normally unmarked, and then a long ball to a forward or through the midfield has significant advantages.
What this has created is the need for players to be extra fit, something that also puts undue pressure on them mentally. The amount of energy required to defend is a lot more than what is required to attack. Stoke made it easy for us as a large number of their passes were in their own half (defending from the front, but not too far). All that said, it is worth noting that given we are so comfortable in presenting the opposition with large amounts of possession, it means that what Dan is showing is being practiced more and more each game. Thus, pity the season finishes on Monday. |
I was with you all the way until you said it's a pity it finishes on Monday.
Kill it. Kill it with fire. Kill it before it lays eggs. | | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 13:19 - May 4 with 3094 views | R_from_afar |
I think Ainsworth prioritised tightening us up defensively not just for obvious reasons but also because he quickly realised how lacking in firepower we are. With Willock and Chair way below their best, Richards and Roberts unreliable, Armstrong inexperienced, Lowe apt to be peripheral, Martin a good finisher but pretty immobile and Dykes far from prolific, we were - are - in serious trouble if the opposition gets one, or God forbid, two goals ahead. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 14:29 - May 4 with 2967 views | LongRanger |
GA must have realised he had 6 weeks to get us organised and hard to beat, he'd have known he couldn't overhaul how we play in 6 weeks, so its great to see how he has done that with this analysis. He now has the summer to influence how we play in possession, which takes much longer, but its encouraging that the players have implemented what he wanted. He will know we have to have a plan with the ball from kick off, when we go a goal down, or worse. We need to be patient and trust he can implement a plan with the ball as well as he appears to have done without it. | | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 16:21 - May 4 with 2798 views | QPROslo |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 14:29 - May 4 by LongRanger |
GA must have realised he had 6 weeks to get us organised and hard to beat, he'd have known he couldn't overhaul how we play in 6 weeks, so its great to see how he has done that with this analysis. He now has the summer to influence how we play in possession, which takes much longer, but its encouraging that the players have implemented what he wanted. He will know we have to have a plan with the ball from kick off, when we go a goal down, or worse. We need to be patient and trust he can implement a plan with the ball as well as he appears to have done without it. |
It was a very detailed and good analysis and I agree with your post. I agree that the Club need to be patient and give Gareth time to get us playing better with the ball again as well as without. I think where we can we should be patient with these players, many of them played very well under Warburton, again early season under Beale and now to an extent under Gareth. I think the main reasons we didn't do do well end of last season and much of this were the many injuries to our best players coupled with a squad too thin in number in some positions and in the low quality of the back up players we had to then use. All not helped by there being 4 Managers. Don't see a need to clear them all out at all, except that we most likely will have to sell the very best of them for P&S, 10 million worth apparently unless we are lucky and get in a chunk from an early Eze sale. Some of the back-up players who don't look Championship level need to be let go, sold if possible or released if we can if they are still in contract. It means we will need to bring in a lot of Championship quality players to replace the best that we sell and to better cover us if injuries hit again, a difficult but not impossible task with the market the way it is now and more players being let go and available with no fee. I hope we try and keep Laird, Lowe and Tim if possible financially, because they are good, should get better and we'll need them even more next season with the quality of Dykes, Chair and Willock, maybe others sold. | | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 16:27 - May 4 with 2787 views | numptydumpty |
Very interesting and well explained analysis of changes in systems and adapting to a more successful approach.
Although as others have said the Burnley game in particular if we had been three down at half time that would not have been surprising.
But win we did and Ainsworth adapting a system to do the job, whether it was lucky or well planned it worked and to change at such a late time, shows the guts of the manager and the ability to read the players he has currently at his disposal to get the job done.
That does show perhaps as some have worried Ainsworth could be a one trick pony and encourages myself that we could see some more attractive performances next season and certainly not a lump it up to the big man approach.
Dan, can you not put yourself forward for a position within the club. With those kinds of skills you have there must be a role for you in the club.
Makes you realise its not simply a game where its just about kicking or heading a ball into a net more times than the opposition.
Game of chess indeed !!!
But encouraging signs of Ainsworth adapting linked in with his rallying up the troops - apparently the Stoke game was preceded by Muhammad Ali - and he could well work as a successful manager in the game at our level and above.
Admittedly only been at one club but always over achieving and he was the first manager to get a tune out of Eze - who probably would always progressed - but certainly at Wycombe was the first time Ezes talents came to the fore.
As said before I was a big supporter of Warburton but his main weakness was inability to change.
Ainsworth then has seemed to already of done this and there's no doubt his passion for the game and the blokes definitely a workaholic for the cause. Bloke looks all done in but he has managed a minor miracle and whether it was lucky or incredibly well planned, we are all grateful. [Post edited 4 May 2023 16:29]
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 18:23 - May 4 with 2654 views | westberksr |
excellent work Dan; great analysis.
almost reminds me of the set up when down to 10 men when i played regularly. Defend deep and narrow to make it difficult for the opposition to penetrate; which works if things are level or you are leading as they have to come at you.
good defensive shape is essential and we've lacked it for months, along with some utterly sloppy use of the ball, giving it away in key areas. Eradicate some of these things and you have something to build on.
i always think back to when Bryan Robson was at Boro and he brought Venables in to assist as they were getting battered despite a good squad. Venables sorted out their defensive shape and they almost immediately stopped conceding and salvaged the season. Not enough credit given to this side of the game imo.
the possession stats vs Burnley are understandable as we expected to go there and get battered. Vs Stoke were probably slightly misrepresented as having taken the lead we only had to stop them scoring so why get caught out up the field when we can let them dick around with it looking for gaps that didn't appear. |  | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 08:42 - May 5 with 2348 views | kernowhoop |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 08:29 - May 4 by qprd |
Bright future ahead of you, Dan, if you want to be a football writer
Keep it up and keep going! |
Maybe more than 'a football writer'.
Didn't a young Jose Mourinho do analyses for Bobby Robson? | | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 13:42 - May 6 with 2135 views | golborne |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:36 - May 4 by daveB |
It's a good article but for me the biggest change in the last 2 games has been teams have not taken chances against us. Stoke missed 2/3 very good chances and Burnley missed 5/6 which other teams in recent weeks were taking. Performance wise I don't see a big difference between that Stoke game and the recent Coventry one, the big difference was Coventry got in front early so we had to come out and play which left a lot of gaps.
Sorry I know I've gone full doom and gloom this week, I really hope I'm wrong |
It can’t be denied, but we were due some luck. I’m really concerned that this may now become his default in order to save his job. One small run of losses playing like that, he’ll rightly be toast for me. I go down there first and foremost with the hope of being entertained. I can’t watch that every week, win or lose. Selfishly, I hope for my sake this isn’t the future of my football team. Cos if it is his philosophy going forward and he’s allowed to bring in players to play this way, then I think we’ll be in a right mess, personnel wise if it goes wrong. It’d be the biggest risk this club has taken since not replacing Ferdinand in the 90’s. Appreciate there are many among us who’d watch knuckle draggers every week so long as we were winning, but it ain’t for me. | | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 15:11 - May 6 with 2029 views | distortR |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 10:36 - May 4 by daveB |
It's a good article but for me the biggest change in the last 2 games has been teams have not taken chances against us. Stoke missed 2/3 very good chances and Burnley missed 5/6 which other teams in recent weeks were taking. Performance wise I don't see a big difference between that Stoke game and the recent Coventry one, the big difference was Coventry got in front early so we had to come out and play which left a lot of gaps.
Sorry I know I've gone full doom and gloom this week, I really hope I'm wrong |
Yeah, that's where I'm at at the moment.
Hopefully................interesting summer ahead, but then, given our financial problems, the deadwood that needs pruning, the lack of youth etc, it always was going to be
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 01:11 - May 7 with 1868 views | hubble |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 13:42 - May 6 by golborne |
It can’t be denied, but we were due some luck. I’m really concerned that this may now become his default in order to save his job. One small run of losses playing like that, he’ll rightly be toast for me. I go down there first and foremost with the hope of being entertained. I can’t watch that every week, win or lose. Selfishly, I hope for my sake this isn’t the future of my football team. Cos if it is his philosophy going forward and he’s allowed to bring in players to play this way, then I think we’ll be in a right mess, personnel wise if it goes wrong. It’d be the biggest risk this club has taken since not replacing Ferdinand in the 90’s. Appreciate there are many among us who’d watch knuckle draggers every week so long as we were winning, but it ain’t for me. |
" Appreciate there are many among us who’d watch knuckle draggers every week so long as we were winning.."
What a backhanded insult that is! I don't think there's anyone on here who wants to watch 'knuckle draggers' every week. Why does everything have to be so polarised? It's not an either or situation, it's far more subtle than that, as surely this analysis shows. |  |
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 12:57 - May 7 with 1714 views | golborne |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 01:11 - May 7 by hubble |
" Appreciate there are many among us who’d watch knuckle draggers every week so long as we were winning.."
What a backhanded insult that is! I don't think there's anyone on here who wants to watch 'knuckle draggers' every week. Why does everything have to be so polarised? It's not an either or situation, it's far more subtle than that, as surely this analysis shows. |
Not an insult at all. There will be people who read that and think bloody right I want to see my team winning, what ever way they need to you ponce, but that’s their view | | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 12:58 - May 7 with 1715 views | NorthantsHoop |
I think it is ridiculous to anticipate how we are going to play next season. Personally I want to see a more physical and faster team, not much good having lots of possession if you can't do anything with it at the other end. Our main problem and has been for a few seasons is too slow getting the ball forward and a lack of a decent core from centre back through to centre forward. |  | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 13:52 - May 7 with 1676 views | hubble |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 12:57 - May 7 by golborne |
Not an insult at all. There will be people who read that and think bloody right I want to see my team winning, what ever way they need to you ponce, but that’s their view |
So "there are many among us who’d watch knuckle draggers every week so long as we were winning" isn't an insult, according to you. But I'm guessing "you ponce" is. Nice. [Post edited 7 May 2023 13:53]
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| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 21:29 - May 7 with 1552 views | golborne |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 13:52 - May 7 by hubble |
So "there are many among us who’d watch knuckle draggers every week so long as we were winning" isn't an insult, according to you. But I'm guessing "you ponce" is. Nice. [Post edited 7 May 2023 13:53]
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Lost in translation “you ponce” is aimed back at me😊 | | | |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 08:40 - May 8 with 1446 views | hubble |
| Out of possession evolution under Ainsworth — Analysis on 21:29 - May 7 by golborne |
Lost in translation “you ponce” is aimed back at me😊 |
Ah, fair enough. Nuances are often hard to pick up in text! | |
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