| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 21:46 - May 6 with 2761 views | HollowayRanger |
didn't work he still picked calton palmer!!!!!!
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 22:10 - May 6 with 2712 views | OakR |
Taylor also denying it occurred..... |  |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 22:34 - May 6 with 2644 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I think, tellingly, he's not denying it. He's not conforming it, true, but if it hadn't happened the easiest thing for him to say would be 'I didn't say it, it never happened'.
It's this refusal to deny that's giving the paper legal cover to print. Otherwise they'd be sued in a flash.
EDIT - I see the article has now been updated, with Taylor now denying it happened! [Post edited 6 May 2015 22:38]
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 23:28 - May 6 with 2583 views | daveB |
Taylor has denied it and his England team was full of black players. Paul Parker, Des Walker, Les Ferdinand, Carlton Palmer, Paul Ince, Ian Wright, John Barnes, all sounds like bolocks to me |  | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 00:13 - May 7 with 2540 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 23:28 - May 6 by daveB |
Taylor has denied it and his England team was full of black players. Paul Parker, Des Walker, Les Ferdinand, Carlton Palmer, Paul Ince, Ian Wright, John Barnes, all sounds like bolocks to me |
Dave, I don't think it's aimed at Graham Taylor who, as you say, has always been beyond reproach on racism. I would also add that the same applied at club level, and that I've always been impressed by him as a thoroughly decent man. The accusations were aimed purely at the FA employees. The article goes to pains to point out that Taylor was neither implicated nor agreeable.
I think the Guardian is wide open on this now that Taylor has denied it, and their changing of the article seems to indicate panic.
As far as I know any libel case under British law would be aimed at those involved in the book, but the Guardian could also be held separately liable for repeating the libel if indeed it is proved a libel. It seems to me that the original Taylor quotes, while they were not (tellingly, or otherwise) a denial of the original claims, may not be strong enough to protect the paper.
Also, you would have to say - libel apart - that the author was just plain wrong on a moral level to bring Taylor's name into this on foot of a conversation that was (if it occurred) strictly private. Even if I don't agree with the author's methods I can see why he would be tempted, as such an edict from the FA would be horrendous and certainly reportable, but he and his publishers may have a fight on their hands with this. | |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 00:29 - May 7 with 2523 views | OakR |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 00:13 - May 7 by BrianMcCarthy |
Dave, I don't think it's aimed at Graham Taylor who, as you say, has always been beyond reproach on racism. I would also add that the same applied at club level, and that I've always been impressed by him as a thoroughly decent man. The accusations were aimed purely at the FA employees. The article goes to pains to point out that Taylor was neither implicated nor agreeable.
I think the Guardian is wide open on this now that Taylor has denied it, and their changing of the article seems to indicate panic.
As far as I know any libel case under British law would be aimed at those involved in the book, but the Guardian could also be held separately liable for repeating the libel if indeed it is proved a libel. It seems to me that the original Taylor quotes, while they were not (tellingly, or otherwise) a denial of the original claims, may not be strong enough to protect the paper.
Also, you would have to say - libel apart - that the author was just plain wrong on a moral level to bring Taylor's name into this on foot of a conversation that was (if it occurred) strictly private. Even if I don't agree with the author's methods I can see why he would be tempted, as such an edict from the FA would be horrendous and certainly reportable, but he and his publishers may have a fight on their hands with this. |
I worked at this organisation for a few years, not many years after this is alleged to have occurred. It was a long time ago now, but I think the same people headed it up then as when I started, and I can't believe in a million years this would have been suggested.
Whilst I'm slightly biased, this seems to me like more typical FA bashing.
I can;t quite remember the stats, but they were something like the 2nd most reported on organisation in the country, in the papers every day. Some of the stuff printed was laughable but what can you do.
I'd very much doubt the FA would sue, messy all round. Probably better to let it fade away but let's see. | |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 08:57 - May 7 with 2408 views | timcocking |
Bollox no doubt. |  | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 11:06 - May 7 with 2303 views | timcocking |
The real disappointment for me, is Britain is unequivocally the least racist, most tolerant nation on planet Earth. Perhaps we weren't once uponatime, but we certainly lead the world in that area now. Anybody who doesn't realise this obviously hasn't travelled much/anywhere.
Why the British media media insist on trying to portray all white British people as racists truly astonishes me. All they ever want to do is sell they're fcuking newspapers. The more wars, riots, disharmony they can sow, irrespective of the lies told in doing so and the damage caused, is music to their ears. Fcuking bastards. | | | |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 12:01 - May 7 with 2254 views | TacticalR |
Agreed. Everyone knows that the British can't be racist. It's simply impossible. Only foreigners are racist. That is why we can bomb other countries and murder as many foreigners as we like - we are just getting rid of racists. |  |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 12:03 - May 7 with 2239 views | robith |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 11:06 - May 7 by timcocking |
The real disappointment for me, is Britain is unequivocally the least racist, most tolerant nation on planet Earth. Perhaps we weren't once uponatime, but we certainly lead the world in that area now. Anybody who doesn't realise this obviously hasn't travelled much/anywhere.
Why the British media media insist on trying to portray all white British people as racists truly astonishes me. All they ever want to do is sell they're fcuking newspapers. The more wars, riots, disharmony they can sow, irrespective of the lies told in doing so and the damage caused, is music to their ears. Fcuking bastards. |
"unequivocally the least racist, most tolerant nation on planet Earth"
Is this some kind of sick joke? |  | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 12:03 - May 7 with 2239 views | Clive_Anderson |
Hang on are you trying to tell me the Guardian are trying to rack up mud to chuck at everyone to accuse them of being racist with no evidence?
Doesn't sound like them. | | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 12:38 - May 7 with 2194 views | Northernr |
This sort of story does so much harm. Half the team was black! You can prove it's a load of nonsense by pointing to the team photograph.
If there was some kind of unofficial quota in place it was so loose we even had space for Carlton fcking Palmer! |  | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 13:04 - May 7 with 2131 views | Mvpeter |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 12:03 - May 7 by robith |
"unequivocally the least racist, most tolerant nation on planet Earth"
Is this some kind of sick joke? |
Id love to hear where this ethnic utopia exists because I'm sitting on a bus with about 15 races on it and nobody seems to mind.
That probably the best you can hope for in this world. [Post edited 7 May 2015 13:07]
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 13:09 - May 7 with 2117 views | toboboly |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 23:28 - May 6 by daveB |
Taylor has denied it and his England team was full of black players. Paul Parker, Des Walker, Les Ferdinand, Carlton Palmer, Paul Ince, Ian Wright, John Barnes, all sounds like bolocks to me |
Funny how one person can say something and no matter what the other party say and no matter what the evidence people believe the original accusation. This morning on Sky News they were basically exonerating Taylor and saying it was disgusting that this sort of thing was going on at higher levels......with NO evidence but one man's word which happened 16 years ago.
Highly suspicious and doubtful imo. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 13:33 - May 7 with 2090 views | Konk |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 12:38 - May 7 by Northernr |
This sort of story does so much harm. Half the team was black! You can prove it's a load of nonsense by pointing to the team photograph.
If there was some kind of unofficial quota in place it was so loose we even had space for Carlton fcking Palmer! |
But isn’t that the point? That half the team was black and that certain people weren’t happy with the idea of the majority/all of the national team being black? As we see in Italy and elsewhere with the selection of black players still being a major issue for many, it’s not inconceivable that in the 1990’s a section of British society might be uncomfortable being represented by a national side that was overwhelmingly black. It could well be a load of old bollocks, but it would finally explain the incomprehensible omission of teenage Fulham hotshot Michael Mison from Taylor's England team.
I’ve listened to plenty of people over the years talking about there being too many black blokes in their club side*, too many black athletes representing GB at the Olympics and my favourite, too many black people on Top of the Pops (my mate at schools’ dad was obsessed with this), so I wouldn’t automatically discount this as nonsense, in the same way that I do when Sol Campbell comes out with his “I would still be England captain, manager and Prime Minister if I wasn’t black”. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 13:47 - May 7 with 2062 views | NW5Hoop |
Key thing is that two separate incidents of Taylor saying this are reported: Richie Moran and the guests at a Kick It Out dinner. That's what makes it a story — Taylor might very well deny it, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
There's no libel of Taylor here, because there's no suggestion he did anything wrong and therefore no case that that the story might defame him in a manner which causes him loss in his work, or cause a reasonable person to think worse of him. Whether the FA could so for libel, I don't know — it reflects on unnamed individuals rather than the organisation as a whole, and whether something from more than 20 years could damage the organisation now is moot at best.
But clearly, assuming this is true, and I suspect it is, then it is a story. | | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 13:56 - May 7 with 2038 views | stevec |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 11:06 - May 7 by timcocking |
The real disappointment for me, is Britain is unequivocally the least racist, most tolerant nation on planet Earth. Perhaps we weren't once uponatime, but we certainly lead the world in that area now. Anybody who doesn't realise this obviously hasn't travelled much/anywhere.
Why the British media media insist on trying to portray all white British people as racists truly astonishes me. All they ever want to do is sell they're fcuking newspapers. The more wars, riots, disharmony they can sow, irrespective of the lies told in doing so and the damage caused, is music to their ears. Fcuking bastards. |
You have to remember that there are quite a lot of white people who absolutely cream themselves over any story that portrays other white British people as racists and that's where The Guardian aims its market.
The joke is most black blokes I've known over the years see the white liberal media and it's apologists as a bunch of tossers and wish they'd shut the fck up. |  | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 14:33 - May 7 with 1997 views | toboboly |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 13:47 - May 7 by NW5Hoop |
Key thing is that two separate incidents of Taylor saying this are reported: Richie Moran and the guests at a Kick It Out dinner. That's what makes it a story — Taylor might very well deny it, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
There's no libel of Taylor here, because there's no suggestion he did anything wrong and therefore no case that that the story might defame him in a manner which causes him loss in his work, or cause a reasonable person to think worse of him. Whether the FA could so for libel, I don't know — it reflects on unnamed individuals rather than the organisation as a whole, and whether something from more than 20 years could damage the organisation now is moot at best.
But clearly, assuming this is true, and I suspect it is, then it is a story. |
May I ask how you suspect this story is true? | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 14:34 - May 7 with 1993 views | NW5Hoop |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 14:33 - May 7 by toboboly |
May I ask how you suspect this story is true? |
Because it's double sourced to two separate and unconnected people. | | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 14:59 - May 7 with 1966 views | Clive_Anderson |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 14:34 - May 7 by NW5Hoop |
Because it's double sourced to two separate and unconnected people. |
Both quoting a bloke saying he never said it. | | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 15:06 - May 7 with 1959 views | Konk |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 14:59 - May 7 by Clive_Anderson |
Both quoting a bloke saying he never said it. |
Well, Taylor seems a bit wobbly on the issue rather than a flat denial:
Taylor has been made aware of the book and told the Guardian he could not specifically remember the conversation with Moran. “That is not me trying to evade it — and it also doesn’t mean I didn’t say it — but if anyone looks at my record with club and country it would be obvious to everyone anyway that I didn’t follow what was apparently said. If anyone looks at my record, I could never be accused of blocking the way for any black player.”
However, Taylor later went on BBC Radio Five Live and said: “Certainly never during my time at the Football Association I had no FA people coming up to me and telling me which team to pick and to pick less black players. I would have remembered that.
“I have no memory of that conversation (with Moran). There certainly was an event at Watford. I can remember that, but I certainly have no memory of a conversation about black players.
“They’ve gone ahead - as I understand it, what I’ve said to them privately has just got out. Or what I’m accused of saying to them privately, which I deny and can’t remember it, they’ve gone out publicly and said it and yet they’re saying themselves it was said to them privately.
“Oh it’s very private then to publish a book about it, isn’t it? There was never any interruption, there was never anyone coming in and asking, ‘Why have you selected him?’ I never had any problems regarding team selection concerning black players from the Football Association.
“I’m going to have to take some form of legal advice here. To have my name linked into this kind of thing is totally wrong.” | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 15:13 - May 7 with 1949 views | Clive_Anderson |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 15:06 - May 7 by Konk |
Well, Taylor seems a bit wobbly on the issue rather than a flat denial:
Taylor has been made aware of the book and told the Guardian he could not specifically remember the conversation with Moran. “That is not me trying to evade it — and it also doesn’t mean I didn’t say it — but if anyone looks at my record with club and country it would be obvious to everyone anyway that I didn’t follow what was apparently said. If anyone looks at my record, I could never be accused of blocking the way for any black player.”
However, Taylor later went on BBC Radio Five Live and said: “Certainly never during my time at the Football Association I had no FA people coming up to me and telling me which team to pick and to pick less black players. I would have remembered that.
“I have no memory of that conversation (with Moran). There certainly was an event at Watford. I can remember that, but I certainly have no memory of a conversation about black players.
“They’ve gone ahead - as I understand it, what I’ve said to them privately has just got out. Or what I’m accused of saying to them privately, which I deny and can’t remember it, they’ve gone out publicly and said it and yet they’re saying themselves it was said to them privately.
“Oh it’s very private then to publish a book about it, isn’t it? There was never any interruption, there was never anyone coming in and asking, ‘Why have you selected him?’ I never had any problems regarding team selection concerning black players from the Football Association.
“I’m going to have to take some form of legal advice here. To have my name linked into this kind of thing is totally wrong.” |
Sounds like he's 99% sure it didn't happen, but he is old and worried his memory is fading so is trying to make sure he leaves the door open in case he made a mistake and someone has some evidence.
His comments certainly don't indicate it did happen, nor does the England team that was picked at the time. | | | |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 15:16 - May 7 with 1941 views | Konk |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 15:13 - May 7 by Clive_Anderson |
Sounds like he's 99% sure it didn't happen, but he is old and worried his memory is fading so is trying to make sure he leaves the door open in case he made a mistake and someone has some evidence.
His comments certainly don't indicate it did happen, nor does the England team that was picked at the time. |
Fair enough - could all be a load of boll ocks, as I've said. No-one is suggesting he omitted black players due to the alleged instruction, so if true, it in no way reflects badly upon Taylor himself. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 15:47 - May 7 with 1901 views | HollowayRanger |
| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 12:38 - May 7 by Northernr |
This sort of story does so much harm. Half the team was black! You can prove it's a load of nonsense by pointing to the team photograph.
If there was some kind of unofficial quota in place it was so loose we even had space for Carlton fcking Palmer! |
but that means half the team was white!!!!!!!
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| FA told GrahamTaylor not to pick ‘too many’ black players for England - Guar on 15:49 - May 7 with 1899 views | Bushman |
Someone wants to sell copies of their book which unsurprisingly is published tomorrow.
However Taylor's version of events has varied since the story broke.....
Edit I suppose to me the real story if he was asked / told to include a limited quota of black players in the squad what his reply was.
Guess it can only have been yes or no??! [Post edited 7 May 2015 15:57]
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| I know almost nothing about the Premier League even though I try to catch the big games every now and then at the end of the season. But I will say this, Queens Park Rangers is just a fukking sick ass team name. Just sounds so cool. |
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