| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 10:20 - Mar 3 with 5870 views | SimonD |
I apologise in advance of anyone watching this.
Who'd have guess that I'd get more down and broken over this than Clive? |  | |  |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 11:32 - Mar 3 with 5608 views | eastside_r |
Well I suppose I have to say thank for you this because it was the kind of insight that I had been looking for but [SPOILER ALERT] the situation is really as bad as Clive has been articulating.
I must admit I was unaware of the different FFP (or whatever) rules are in place in League 1, I'll leave everyone to find that out themselves!
I stayed off the existing 'Finance' thread but I think it is fair to say that the posters that most of us thought were spouting absolute bollocks were indeed spouting absolute bollocks. |  | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 12:12 - Mar 3 with 5469 views | Monkey_Roots |
A really interesting listen, thanks.
I’ll have to listen to it again - my creative brain struggles with figures. |  | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 12:21 - Mar 3 with 5423 views | daveB |
really interesting listen and shows the difficulties the club have in that the wage bill is not that big compared to other in the league but still too much for us to afford.
Big few weeks and summer ahead |  | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 12:29 - Mar 3 with 5385 views | Monkey_Roots |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 12:21 - Mar 3 by daveB |
really interesting listen and shows the difficulties the club have in that the wage bill is not that big compared to other in the league but still too much for us to afford.
Big few weeks and summer ahead |
Sorry, fat thumbs, meant to upvote it. | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 12:29 - Mar 3 with 5386 views | ngbqpr |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 12:21 - Mar 3 by daveB |
really interesting listen and shows the difficulties the club have in that the wage bill is not that big compared to other in the league but still too much for us to afford.
Big few weeks and summer ahead |
...and kinda answers Clive's question about how we got from Critchley to Ainsworth in 3 months. |  |
| |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 13:30 - Mar 3 with 5169 views | thehat |
Thanks Clive - Great insight.
I am in the camp that is thankful we have the owners we do who cover the losses.
I guess we are a football club and not a business so the normal financial nous goes out of the window a little. We all thought we had cracked it when we beat Reading at Loftus Road last January just before the wheels came off. Its only with hindsight that we can look back and criticise.
The QPR roller coaster continues and I guess it will never change.
Good luck to you and everyone making the journey to Rotherham - please bring a point or three back.... | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 14:00 - Mar 3 with 5026 views | terryb |
Thank you Clive & Simon, but especially Kieran.
I might be wrong, but I think in League, 1 "gifts" rather than loans are allowable as income. Therefore the current £2 million per month loan from Reuben etc, could be a gift to the club instead. That would be £24 extra income to start with! It would seem mad to me that this could be the case, but I've implied this from a recent(ish) post on LFW outlining the regulations.
Not that you could tell us who it is, but did Kieran name the Premier club that is claiming £6 million as accademy costs? | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 14:25 - Mar 3 with 4949 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Quality stuff. May have to listen to again, though. Lot in there to 'unpack' as they say in Podcastland. |  |
| |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 14:43 - Mar 3 with 4892 views | DejR_vu |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 14:00 - Mar 3 by terryb |
Thank you Clive & Simon, but especially Kieran.
I might be wrong, but I think in League, 1 "gifts" rather than loans are allowable as income. Therefore the current £2 million per month loan from Reuben etc, could be a gift to the club instead. That would be £24 extra income to start with! It would seem mad to me that this could be the case, but I've implied this from a recent(ish) post on LFW outlining the regulations.
Not that you could tell us who it is, but did Kieran name the Premier club that is claiming £6 million as accademy costs? |
I'm sure Reuben would be delighted with that.
What's that old adage? How does a football club owner become a millionaire? By starting as a billionaire.
He's going to have to get a job in Tesco at this rate. | |
| |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 14:43 - Mar 3 with 4887 views | DWQPR |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 14:00 - Mar 3 by terryb |
Thank you Clive & Simon, but especially Kieran.
I might be wrong, but I think in League, 1 "gifts" rather than loans are allowable as income. Therefore the current £2 million per month loan from Reuben etc, could be a gift to the club instead. That would be £24 extra income to start with! It would seem mad to me that this could be the case, but I've implied this from a recent(ish) post on LFW outlining the regulations.
Not that you could tell us who it is, but did Kieran name the Premier club that is claiming £6 million as accademy costs? |
Reading up on Leagues One and Two they are governed by what is called Salary Cap Management Protocols whereby a club cannot spend more than 60% of income in League One and 55% in League Two. Clubs relegated from the championship have one year whereby there salary to income ratio cannot exceed 75%. But, all additional funding by directors are treated as income as long as they are converted to equity or treated as donations and not seen as loans. Directors salaries are not part of the calculations and neither is the pay of general staff. Any player at the start of the season who is under the age of 20 doesn't count either. To my mind the SCMP is a far better set of rules than FFP for the championship. Just feels logical. [Post edited 3 Mar 2023 14:55]
| |
| |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:17 - Mar 4 with 3937 views | francisbowles |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 14:43 - Mar 3 by DWQPR |
Reading up on Leagues One and Two they are governed by what is called Salary Cap Management Protocols whereby a club cannot spend more than 60% of income in League One and 55% in League Two. Clubs relegated from the championship have one year whereby there salary to income ratio cannot exceed 75%. But, all additional funding by directors are treated as income as long as they are converted to equity or treated as donations and not seen as loans. Directors salaries are not part of the calculations and neither is the pay of general staff. Any player at the start of the season who is under the age of 20 doesn't count either. To my mind the SCMP is a far better set of rules than FFP for the championship. Just feels logical. [Post edited 3 Mar 2023 14:55]
|
Yes, I agree.
It's bizarre to think that relegation could 'solve' the FFP problem and that in league one the owners could donate unlimited funds to the club. We could spend 60% of that on players and wages.
It's not a solution as it brings many other problems and then if you did get promoted you may a wage bill that is going to push you over the FFP target again | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 10:46 - Mar 4 with 3825 views | terryb |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:17 - Mar 4 by francisbowles |
Yes, I agree.
It's bizarre to think that relegation could 'solve' the FFP problem and that in league one the owners could donate unlimited funds to the club. We could spend 60% of that on players and wages.
It's not a solution as it brings many other problems and then if you did get promoted you may a wage bill that is going to push you over the FFP target again |
The only problem with this way forward in League 1 is winning promotion!
I've been told that on returning to The Championship, for FFP purposes the time in the lower league will be treated as it would have been in that division.
As an example, if we were to spend next season in League 1 & the club received £20 million in gifts & were promoted, for FFP in the Championship the £20 million would be removed as income. Thus increasing the loss for FFP. | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 12:15 - Mar 4 with 3690 views | francisbowles |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 10:46 - Mar 4 by terryb |
The only problem with this way forward in League 1 is winning promotion!
I've been told that on returning to The Championship, for FFP purposes the time in the lower league will be treated as it would have been in that division.
As an example, if we were to spend next season in League 1 & the club received £20 million in gifts & were promoted, for FFP in the Championship the £20 million would be removed as income. Thus increasing the loss for FFP. |
Thanks Terry.
No silver lining then.
The whole FFP scenario is not fit for purpose. | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 17:09 - Mar 4 with 3385 views | Damo1962 |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 10:46 - Mar 4 by terryb |
The only problem with this way forward in League 1 is winning promotion!
I've been told that on returning to The Championship, for FFP purposes the time in the lower league will be treated as it would have been in that division.
As an example, if we were to spend next season in League 1 & the club received £20 million in gifts & were promoted, for FFP in the Championship the £20 million would be removed as income. Thus increasing the loss for FFP. |
It certainly won't be easy to get out of L1, but this maybe the clubs only way of surviving. Despite the shite on the pitch, the clubs future is the most important thing. Even though they make me miserable, I can't imagine a world without QPR. Couldn't our rich neighbours have pity on us...and drop us a few quid 😉 | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 18:55 - Mar 4 with 3271 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Interesting point about League One’s different rules. I interpreted it to mean that it would be easier for us to get finances in order from there than here. |  | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:49 - Mar 5 with 2844 views | JamesB1979 |
We all guessed I think that we did gamble last season to try to get promoted. I think we all didn’t realise how much. I don’t really blame the decision makers ie. Hoos and Les for that. However, what I don’t understand is why after that season, you wouldn’t then sell 1 or maybe 2 of Chair, Willock, Dieng, Field to try to offset some of the losses so that we are not in a mad panic this summer to sell them with 1 less year on their contracts. To me there must be some accountability for that. And that has to be DOF and CEO. | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:51 - Mar 5 with 2832 views | OldPedro |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:49 - Mar 5 by JamesB1979 |
We all guessed I think that we did gamble last season to try to get promoted. I think we all didn’t realise how much. I don’t really blame the decision makers ie. Hoos and Les for that. However, what I don’t understand is why after that season, you wouldn’t then sell 1 or maybe 2 of Chair, Willock, Dieng, Field to try to offset some of the losses so that we are not in a mad panic this summer to sell them with 1 less year on their contracts. To me there must be some accountability for that. And that has to be DOF and CEO. |
I would guess it was a condition from Beale, that he wouldn't join if they were sold and the club believed Beale could get us promoted, so they've basically gambled again. |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
| |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:56 - Mar 5 with 2825 views | JamesB1979 |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:51 - Mar 5 by OldPedro |
I would guess it was a condition from Beale, that he wouldn't join if they were sold and the club believed Beale could get us promoted, so they've basically gambled again. |
Most likely. But that is exactly the stuff Tony and co got the blame for in years before that. The idea was that a “football” CEO and a DOF would prevent this “gambling”. So, they should have explained the situation to every manager. | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:59 - Mar 5 with 2813 views | OldPedro |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:56 - Mar 5 by JamesB1979 |
Most likely. But that is exactly the stuff Tony and co got the blame for in years before that. The idea was that a “football” CEO and a DOF would prevent this “gambling”. So, they should have explained the situation to every manager. |
Agree with that. What we don't know is who actually made the decisions. Was it the DOF or was it the owners? | |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
| |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 08:34 - Mar 6 with 2588 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:59 - Mar 5 by OldPedro |
Agree with that. What we don't know is who actually made the decisions. Was it the DOF or was it the owners? |
Or if the decision/promise was ever made. | |
| |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 18:07 - Mar 6 with 2405 views | OldPedro |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 08:34 - Mar 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
Or if the decision/promise was ever made. |
Also true | |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
| |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 20:16 - Mar 6 with 2324 views | sevenhoop |
thanks Clive. just got round to listening to this. Profoundly depressing. Makes me realise that the future of our club was spunked away by the largesse of the obviously bad appointments of Hughes and then Redknapp. The last chance and they blew it.
And it appears that we cannot generate the required money in this stadium, yet we cannot afford a new one.
So short of unearthing a couple of gems to polish and keep fit and sell on, we are well and truly f*cked |  | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 08:57 - Mar 7 with 2187 views | JamesB1979 |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 20:16 - Mar 6 by sevenhoop |
thanks Clive. just got round to listening to this. Profoundly depressing. Makes me realise that the future of our club was spunked away by the largesse of the obviously bad appointments of Hughes and then Redknapp. The last chance and they blew it.
And it appears that we cannot generate the required money in this stadium, yet we cannot afford a new one.
So short of unearthing a couple of gems to polish and keep fit and sell on, we are well and truly f*cked |
We cant keep blaming Hughes, Redknap and co….:that was 8 years ago. None of those players are here and the fine is paid by the owners and sits outside of FFP. The issues we have now with FFP are a result of decisions we’ve made more recently that haven’t worked out. | | | |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 09:27 - Mar 7 with 2167 views | TheChef |
| Kieran Maguire and Simon Dorset - Patreon on 08:57 - Mar 7 by JamesB1979 |
We cant keep blaming Hughes, Redknap and co….:that was 8 years ago. None of those players are here and the fine is paid by the owners and sits outside of FFP. The issues we have now with FFP are a result of decisions we’ve made more recently that haven’t worked out. |
I blame Phil Beard. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
