| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:26 - Jan 26 with 3841 views | w7r |
Fair play to DW, speaks a lot of sense.
When I was 15 I worked in a butchers a couple of evenings a week and on Saturday - I was paid a whole £5.
The owner used to get me to nip over to the bookies and put his bets on (iilegal I know), this was 79/80 he was putting an eyewatering amount on the nags. One of our customers who was at the time a household name and England international was often in the shop if he wasn't playing on the Saturday. The amount of money I put on for them jointly was insane at the time. It didn't take a genius to work out the pair of them had a problem, if I'd trousered 50% of their bet money I'd have been made for a few years. These two characters could afford it but there are plenty that can't and end up in all sorts of bother.
Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with having a bet but the relentless pimping by Redknapp, Ray Winstone, and the like need to take a long hard look at themselves. All this "When the Fun Stops - Stop" lipservice bllx, some people can't stop and end up losing everything.
Need to ban all gambling ads and promotion - end of. |  | |  |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:30 - Jan 26 with 3827 views | stanistheman |
Well said Wheeler.
Football needs to drop gambling sponsors as it did alcohol and tobacco.
None of them have done the game any favours. |  | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:32 - Jan 26 with 3825 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:30 - Jan 26 by stanistheman |
Well said Wheeler.
Football needs to drop gambling sponsors as it did alcohol and tobacco.
None of them have done the game any favours. |
But OK to still sell alcohol and have a bet at football?
Either something is illegal or it isn't surely? | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:46 - Jan 26 with 3788 views | francisbowles |
If you make it illegal you just push it underground again and then you get more loan sharking as well as threatening behaviour. We should, imho, stop allowing them to promote the availabilty and easyness of how easy it is to bet. | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 17:14 - Jan 26 with 3718 views | southbrookstreet |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:26 - Jan 26 by w7r |
Fair play to DW, speaks a lot of sense.
When I was 15 I worked in a butchers a couple of evenings a week and on Saturday - I was paid a whole £5.
The owner used to get me to nip over to the bookies and put his bets on (iilegal I know), this was 79/80 he was putting an eyewatering amount on the nags. One of our customers who was at the time a household name and England international was often in the shop if he wasn't playing on the Saturday. The amount of money I put on for them jointly was insane at the time. It didn't take a genius to work out the pair of them had a problem, if I'd trousered 50% of their bet money I'd have been made for a few years. These two characters could afford it but there are plenty that can't and end up in all sorts of bother.
Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with having a bet but the relentless pimping by Redknapp, Ray Winstone, and the like need to take a long hard look at themselves. All this "When the Fun Stops - Stop" lipservice bllx, some people can't stop and end up losing everything.
Need to ban all gambling ads and promotion - end of. |
in the sixties I was a small time gambler betting shops dog tracks etc only bet in small amounts but couldn't afford to bet as I was always skint by Monday in other words I was a loser I was 23 my wife was 20 we had two young children couldn't afford to bet couldn't keep away from a betting shop.. would have loved to have stopped .. then one early evening I was walking home when I saw the betting shop owner locking up the shop I watched him walk over to his Rolls Royce and drive away... I stopped for a moment and thought I contributed to that Rolls.... I made up my mind to never gamble again that was fifty years ago I never have walked into a betting shop since come to think of it i wouldn't know what to do now ... well done David wheeler for bringing it to our attention | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 17:49 - Jan 26 with 3622 views | PlanetHonneywood |
5/2 we get a points deduction. |  |
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| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 18:03 - Jan 26 with 3586 views | charmr |
Merson said the betting companies indulged him because he wasn’t very good at gambling.
Professional gambler on the price of football was saying how difficult it was for him to make a bet due to the gambling companies blocking his every move.
My Dad had a few race horses and believe me it’s all rigged and the bookies are running the show. | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 08:02 - Jan 27 with 3268 views | terryb |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:32 - Jan 26 by PinnerPaul |
But OK to still sell alcohol and have a bet at football?
Either something is illegal or it isn't surely? |
You've been here many times before Paul!
Nobody stopped anyone still having a drink or smoking, but all advertising of their products was banned. Personally, I'm of a mind that the same should happen to the gambling industry.
I've nothing against anybody having a bet & I used to be a regular in my local bookies, but if Guinness/Youngs can't sponsor anything, why should BET365 (?) be allowed to? | | | |
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| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 08:33 - Jan 27 with 3233 views | stevec |
Given the fight footballers put up to hang on to all their vast salaries during Covid despite the hardship it put the clubs through I find that they might happily give some up now if betting ads were banned beyond laughable.
Perhaps the answer is clubs saying we won’t accept betting sponsorship if our fans are willing to make up the shortfall with a big increase in ticket prices. I put it to the season ticket holders on here, how many of you presently giving it the full ‘David Wheeler’ on here, would be agreeable to that proposition? |  | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 09:00 - Jan 27 with 3190 views | dmm |
Steve, the choice you present seems a false one. If betting in sport was banned it would simply mean other sponsors would be used. Would that really equate to lower income and higher entrance fees? For football in particular it's obvious there's no end to those wishing to be involved.
I'm not sure what 'the full David Wheeler' is but the position he and others take is a reasonable one. |  | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 09:33 - Jan 27 with 3118 views | stevec |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 09:00 - Jan 27 by dmm |
Steve, the choice you present seems a false one. If betting in sport was banned it would simply mean other sponsors would be used. Would that really equate to lower income and higher entrance fees? For football in particular it's obvious there's no end to those wishing to be involved.
I'm not sure what 'the full David Wheeler' is but the position he and others take is a reasonable one. |
Playing to the gallery. The guy is certainly switched on.
You mention the accessibility of other forms of advertising. Maybe at Premier League level, but if you suggested this to Lee Hoos or any other EFL club you might find that is not quite the case.
If advertising was so ‘accessible’ as you suggest, why do we operate as the norm a £1.8 million loss every month?
I get the argument for a betting ban, I just wish the same people, just for once, could come up with a failsafe and innovative way to replace the financial shortfall the club will inevitably have, it never happens. So tell me, what’s your solution or don’t you have one? | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 11:28 - Jan 27 with 3036 views | QPR_Jim |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 09:33 - Jan 27 by stevec |
Playing to the gallery. The guy is certainly switched on.
You mention the accessibility of other forms of advertising. Maybe at Premier League level, but if you suggested this to Lee Hoos or any other EFL club you might find that is not quite the case.
If advertising was so ‘accessible’ as you suggest, why do we operate as the norm a £1.8 million loss every month?
I get the argument for a betting ban, I just wish the same people, just for once, could come up with a failsafe and innovative way to replace the financial shortfall the club will inevitably have, it never happens. So tell me, what’s your solution or don’t you have one? |
We don't currently have a betting sponsor on our shirts, we didn't last season either and the last 2 gambling sites to be our shirt sponsor have folded. That's the biggest sponsorship earner at the club, so I think you're overstating the effect banning gambling will have on the club.
In any case I was under the impression that all football clubs revenue was mainly from TV and secondly from ticket sales with any sponsorship being below that with the biggest aspect being the shirt sponsorship. So you're talking about a shortfall on the 3rd highest revenue stream as if it's the collapse of ITV Digital all over again. Yes gambling companies pay better than other sponsors but other options are out there and I doubt there would have been a significant increase in revenue if we had gone with a gambling company over Ashville Aggregates or Convivia. |  | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 15:34 - Jan 27 with 2895 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:46 - Jan 26 by francisbowles |
If you make it illegal you just push it underground again and then you get more loan sharking as well as threatening behaviour. We should, imho, stop allowing them to promote the availabilty and easyness of how easy it is to bet. |
But if legal - why? | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 15:47 - Jan 27 with 2867 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 08:02 - Jan 27 by terryb |
You've been here many times before Paul!
Nobody stopped anyone still having a drink or smoking, but all advertising of their products was banned. Personally, I'm of a mind that the same should happen to the gambling industry.
I've nothing against anybody having a bet & I used to be a regular in my local bookies, but if Guinness/Youngs can't sponsor anything, why should BET365 (?) be allowed to? |
Fair point Terry - but my point holds for drinking as well.
Its legal, clubs want people to drink - so do the government to preserve the duty they receive, yet ban advertising - why?
You may as well ban car advertising because of the harm they do to the environment.
Yes we have been here before and here's some stats for you (Source gov.co.uk & nhs.co.uk)
Number of UK hospital admissions related to alcohol in 2018/19 = 287,000
Number of UK hospital admissions related to gambling in 2018/19 = 387
Make my bewilderment with current obsession about gambling easier to understand? | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 15:49 - Jan 27 with 2862 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 09:00 - Jan 27 by dmm |
Steve, the choice you present seems a false one. If betting in sport was banned it would simply mean other sponsors would be used. Would that really equate to lower income and higher entrance fees? For football in particular it's obvious there's no end to those wishing to be involved.
I'm not sure what 'the full David Wheeler' is but the position he and others take is a reasonable one. |
What "other sponsors" do you think would rescue horseracing or indeed free to air coverage on ITV if that happened? | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 15:52 - Jan 27 with 2856 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 17:14 - Jan 26 by southbrookstreet |
in the sixties I was a small time gambler betting shops dog tracks etc only bet in small amounts but couldn't afford to bet as I was always skint by Monday in other words I was a loser I was 23 my wife was 20 we had two young children couldn't afford to bet couldn't keep away from a betting shop.. would have loved to have stopped .. then one early evening I was walking home when I saw the betting shop owner locking up the shop I watched him walk over to his Rolls Royce and drive away... I stopped for a moment and thought I contributed to that Rolls.... I made up my mind to never gamble again that was fifty years ago I never have walked into a betting shop since come to think of it i wouldn't know what to do now ... well done David wheeler for bringing it to our attention |
Ban all companies that make a good profit from advertising/sponsorship?
Interesting economic model!
These companies are huge, employing hundreds of thousands - its not just the CEOs and their cars that would be harmed if you ban gambling. | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:32 - Jan 27 with 2822 views | PunteR |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:32 - Jan 26 by PinnerPaul |
But OK to still sell alcohol and have a bet at football?
Either something is illegal or it isn't surely? |
Its the promoting of it thats the problem and what Wheeler is on about. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 17:27 - Jan 27 with 2786 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 16:32 - Jan 27 by PunteR |
Its the promoting of it thats the problem and what Wheeler is on about. |
That's my point, seems a massive fudge, for an activity to be legal, generate income and jobs, support many industries, contribute to the economy BUT you can't promote it?
I suppose my wider point is some people drink too much, gamble too much, drive too fast, spend too much money on a whole host of things they shouldn't - so how far do we, was as a 'free' society, go in policing these?
it IS illegal to drive too fast, it IS illegal for betting companies to allow those to bet who can't afford it, it IS illegal to drink and drive, be drunk and disorderly, but all those activities, when done 'normally' ARE legal - so why the additional 'Nannying' for want of a better word? | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 18:13 - Jan 27 with 2751 views | dmm |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 15:49 - Jan 27 by PinnerPaul |
What "other sponsors" do you think would rescue horseracing or indeed free to air coverage on ITV if that happened? |
Well there are many national and global businesses to choose are there not? A few recent examples would be Chevrolet sponsoring ManU, American Express sponsoring Brighton and AIA sponsoring the Spuds, and there are plenty more.
As pointed out above, QPR's current and previous sponsors are not betting companies. | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 18:22 - Jan 27 with 2736 views | PunteR |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 17:27 - Jan 27 by PinnerPaul |
That's my point, seems a massive fudge, for an activity to be legal, generate income and jobs, support many industries, contribute to the economy BUT you can't promote it?
I suppose my wider point is some people drink too much, gamble too much, drive too fast, spend too much money on a whole host of things they shouldn't - so how far do we, was as a 'free' society, go in policing these?
it IS illegal to drive too fast, it IS illegal for betting companies to allow those to bet who can't afford it, it IS illegal to drink and drive, be drunk and disorderly, but all those activities, when done 'normally' ARE legal - so why the additional 'Nannying' for want of a better word? |
Nannying is the wrong word
I get your point but really just because it's legal doesn't make it right for society either. That's the hypocrisy I think you're alluding too.
It's about managing the vices so people can do these things in an environment that's "relatively" safe. It's a similar argument for legalising drugs.
Let's say cannabis is legalised, would you be comfortable with it being advertised to use via football?
What about other drugs like MDMA?
Gambling addiction is up there with drug addiction. [Post edited 27 Jan 2023 18:25]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 18:28 - Jan 27 with 2720 views | essextaxiboy |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 18:13 - Jan 27 by dmm |
Well there are many national and global businesses to choose are there not? A few recent examples would be Chevrolet sponsoring ManU, American Express sponsoring Brighton and AIA sponsoring the Spuds, and there are plenty more.
As pointed out above, QPR's current and previous sponsors are not betting companies. |
Huge research goes in to a commercial deal , clubs employ teams of people to do due diligence on prospects (my sons have done this job) .
Some brands want to link to football to clean up their reputation or have unsavoury directors , working practices , or previous scandals to rub away. Some want exposure on the cheap , some will pay more than others (betting companies ) Clubs like us will not command anything like the revenue that a betting company will pay from anyone else . |  | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 18:43 - Jan 27 with 2708 views | dmm |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 18:28 - Jan 27 by essextaxiboy |
Huge research goes in to a commercial deal , clubs employ teams of people to do due diligence on prospects (my sons have done this job) .
Some brands want to link to football to clean up their reputation or have unsavoury directors , working practices , or previous scandals to rub away. Some want exposure on the cheap , some will pay more than others (betting companies ) Clubs like us will not command anything like the revenue that a betting company will pay from anyone else . |
Interesting stuff and I'm sure you're right about the reasons certain companies sponsor clubs. But, there are clubs both big and not so big (like ourselves) which have sponsors that are not betting companies. So there are alternatives. | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 18:59 - Jan 27 with 2689 views | essextaxiboy |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 09:00 - Jan 27 by dmm |
Steve, the choice you present seems a false one. If betting in sport was banned it would simply mean other sponsors would be used. Would that really equate to lower income and higher entrance fees? For football in particular it's obvious there's no end to those wishing to be involved.
I'm not sure what 'the full David Wheeler' is but the position he and others take is a reasonable one. |
Yes it would result in lower incomes for clubs at our level , you cant really say "other sponsors would be used " . Where are they and what do they get out of partnering with a mid table championship club ?. Even the gambling partners we have signed up with have been 2nd grade , not one of the bigger ones.
Now we are doing what we did with Car Giant and partnering with local companies or with a link to us through supporters . I suspect the sums involved are tiny and if they dont allow us to exit on promotion I would be amazed . [Post edited 27 Jan 2023 19:05]
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| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 19:06 - Jan 27 with 2661 views | terryb |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 15:47 - Jan 27 by PinnerPaul |
Fair point Terry - but my point holds for drinking as well.
Its legal, clubs want people to drink - so do the government to preserve the duty they receive, yet ban advertising - why?
You may as well ban car advertising because of the harm they do to the environment.
Yes we have been here before and here's some stats for you (Source gov.co.uk & nhs.co.uk)
Number of UK hospital admissions related to alcohol in 2018/19 = 287,000
Number of UK hospital admissions related to gambling in 2018/19 = 387
Make my bewilderment with current obsession about gambling easier to understand? |
I'm afraid not Paul.
All of us are aware of the dangers of drinking & smoking, but a lot of people don't appear to be aware of how many lives are ruined from gambling. UK hospital admissions are not the most likely place for those affected as it is the mind rather than the body that suffers.
During my time I have participated in all three actions & if I was to relive my life, I would do exactly the same. That doesn't mean that I would support any of them being allowed to advertise & be sponsors!
You are certainly correct Paul that the government relies on the duty, plus VAT, receives from alcohol. The same applies to tobacco sales ( which I would sugest, but don't know, raised higher amounts historically).
On a personal level, I detest all of the advertising/ promotions of betting companies. If only because they seem to appear non stop! | | | |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 19:14 - Jan 27 with 2636 views | essextaxiboy |
| Ex-Rs David Wheeler on gambling in football on 19:06 - Jan 27 by terryb |
I'm afraid not Paul.
All of us are aware of the dangers of drinking & smoking, but a lot of people don't appear to be aware of how many lives are ruined from gambling. UK hospital admissions are not the most likely place for those affected as it is the mind rather than the body that suffers.
During my time I have participated in all three actions & if I was to relive my life, I would do exactly the same. That doesn't mean that I would support any of them being allowed to advertise & be sponsors!
You are certainly correct Paul that the government relies on the duty, plus VAT, receives from alcohol. The same applies to tobacco sales ( which I would sugest, but don't know, raised higher amounts historically).
On a personal level, I detest all of the advertising/ promotions of betting companies. If only because they seem to appear non stop! |
I think thats the point , if you havnt had experience of gambling addiction (I havnt) then its not easy to understand the havoc and misery caused .
I think there is a case for banning marketing and targeting fans with betting offers and suchlike . If that makes the deal unworkable for the companies then they can bow out .
I really cant see that a shirt front , a sleeve or an LED board will encourage an addict to fall off the wagon though. | | | |
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