By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Clough too for winning the title at Derby, then the ridiculous feat of promotion, title and successive European Cups at Forest. Plus he pissed Leeds off.
I do find it annoying how the old European Cup is denigrated now, because while you could play some crappy teams, it was knockout so no second chances and invariably you'd have to beat some good sides to win it. Forest drew Liverpool in the first round ffs.
Clough too for winning the title at Derby, then the ridiculous feat of promotion, title and successive European Cups at Forest. Plus he pissed Leeds off.
I do find it annoying how the old European Cup is denigrated now, because while you could play some crappy teams, it was knockout so no second chances and invariably you'd have to beat some good sides to win it. Forest drew Liverpool in the first round ffs.
[Post edited 8 May 2022 20:41]
Plus you had to win the league (or the European Cup) to qualify, none of this finish 4th nonsense, 'Champions League' bollox is it.
Clough too for winning the title at Derby, then the ridiculous feat of promotion, title and successive European Cups at Forest. Plus he pissed Leeds off.
I do find it annoying how the old European Cup is denigrated now, because while you could play some crappy teams, it was knockout so no second chances and invariably you'd have to beat some good sides to win it. Forest drew Liverpool in the first round ffs.
[Post edited 8 May 2022 20:41]
That Forest v Liverpool pairing in 1978 was the bentest of bent draws. Not once before then or up until the old EC ended in 1992 had the champions of England been paired with the holders, they would usually get a minnow from Cyprus, Luxembourg, Finland etc.
What a lot of people overlook with that Forest team that Clough took from lower half second division to European champions in four years (essentially three once Peter Taylor rejoined him) was that half of them (Anderson, Bowyer, O'Neill, Robertson, Woodcock) were at club already when he took over.
I've stated before that people who consider Leicester winning the Premier League to be the biggest football fairy tale are talking out of their arse. Cloughie doing that with Forest easily tops that by miles.
That Forest v Liverpool pairing in 1978 was the bentest of bent draws. Not once before then or up until the old EC ended in 1992 had the champions of England been paired with the holders, they would usually get a minnow from Cyprus, Luxembourg, Finland etc.
What a lot of people overlook with that Forest team that Clough took from lower half second division to European champions in four years (essentially three once Peter Taylor rejoined him) was that half of them (Anderson, Bowyer, O'Neill, Robertson, Woodcock) were at club already when he took over.
I've stated before that people who consider Leicester winning the Premier League to be the biggest football fairy tale are talking out of their arse. Cloughie doing that with Forest easily tops that by miles.
You are right except for the one caveat that it was a much more level playing field financially back then than now. It was not unusual to see smaller teams like Ipswich and Coventry to be regularly competing at the top end of the table,whereas now - while City and Liverpool are very entertaining to watch - you know the top 6 before the season starts
That Forest v Liverpool pairing in 1978 was the bentest of bent draws. Not once before then or up until the old EC ended in 1992 had the champions of England been paired with the holders, they would usually get a minnow from Cyprus, Luxembourg, Finland etc.
What a lot of people overlook with that Forest team that Clough took from lower half second division to European champions in four years (essentially three once Peter Taylor rejoined him) was that half of them (Anderson, Bowyer, O'Neill, Robertson, Woodcock) were at club already when he took over.
I've stated before that people who consider Leicester winning the Premier League to be the biggest football fairy tale are talking out of their arse. Cloughie doing that with Forest easily tops that by miles.
Agree with most of that but definitely not the Leicester part. Them winning the prem given the resources of the likes of Chelsea and Man City is a sporting miracle.
In the 1970s/80s, a well run club could challenge at the top as we did in 1976 along with top 5 finishes after this. Genuinely believe we would have been real contenders for the title if Venables had stayed another year or two.
The resources of the top clubs now don't make this possible. What Leicester did will probably never be repeated.
That Forest v Liverpool pairing in 1978 was the bentest of bent draws. Not once before then or up until the old EC ended in 1992 had the champions of England been paired with the holders, they would usually get a minnow from Cyprus, Luxembourg, Finland etc.
What a lot of people overlook with that Forest team that Clough took from lower half second division to European champions in four years (essentially three once Peter Taylor rejoined him) was that half of them (Anderson, Bowyer, O'Neill, Robertson, Woodcock) were at club already when he took over.
I've stated before that people who consider Leicester winning the Premier League to be the biggest football fairy tale are talking out of their arse. Cloughie doing that with Forest easily tops that by miles.
Well yeah - but football didn't exist before 1992.
I’m sure others will disagree, but for me personally Clough’s treatment of Justin Fashanu disqualifies him from true greatness. I know it was a different time, but bullying your own player over their sexuality to the extent that their entire career effectively collapses is not the mark of a good manager, or a decent man, whatever other great things Clough may have done.
I’d probably go for Ferguson over Venables, even with the persistent rumours that both were crooked - Ferguson’s been a vital part of the creation of modern football, not sure one single person has ever had quite the same effect on the game as a whole, or could ever again.
Thing about Ferguson was that he kept reinventing, refreshing and revitalising his teams to ensure incredible success over a long period of time. And a period where football went through some seismic changes.
There were times his teams were fantastic to watch, I shudder to think how good they and Gazza would have been if the Geordie had signed for them. Did well at Aberdeen also.
Venables was visionary, we were something else under him and his teams always played classy football. It’s a shame his tendency for shenanigans hangs over his record. I wonder what would have transpired if he’d managed a club like United. Join a Barce it’s a question of time before you’re hoofed.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Yes, that's true. You see this in accounts of Clough like 'The Damned United' and Duncan Hamilton's 'Provided You Don't Kiss Me'. Clough could be destructive and he needed someone constructive alongside him.
I’m sure others will disagree, but for me personally Clough’s treatment of Justin Fashanu disqualifies him from true greatness. I know it was a different time, but bullying your own player over their sexuality to the extent that their entire career effectively collapses is not the mark of a good manager, or a decent man, whatever other great things Clough may have done.
I’d probably go for Ferguson over Venables, even with the persistent rumours that both were crooked - Ferguson’s been a vital part of the creation of modern football, not sure one single person has ever had quite the same effect on the game as a whole, or could ever again.
Of course Clough's treatment of Fashanu was terrible, but some context is needed. Much more serious were the state-sponsored hate campaigns against gays and single parents of the Thatcher government at the time. Clough considered himself a socialist but it never seems to have occurred to him that socialism is not just an economic matter and that the morality of the ruling class needed to be challenged.
Of course Clough's treatment of Fashanu was terrible, but some context is needed. Much more serious were the state-sponsored hate campaigns against gays and single parents of the Thatcher government at the time. Clough considered himself a socialist but it never seems to have occurred to him that socialism is not just an economic matter and that the morality of the ruling class needed to be challenged.
Totally agree that Clough had a massive blind spot in his politics, as so many people do, but I’m not sure that Section 28 being worse is much of an excuse.
It’s also not just about the moral aspect, but the specific duty of care owed by a manager to his players. Fashanu was being targeted by the media, opposition fans, even his own family. Regardless of the general homophobia of the times or his wider political views, Clough’s responsibility as a manager was to protect and support his player, not humiliate him in front of his teammates and push him out of the club.
Whatever the context, that’s just straightforwardly terrible management, and for me a serious enough incident to mar the rest of his career.
I’m sure others will disagree, but for me personally Clough’s treatment of Justin Fashanu disqualifies him from true greatness. I know it was a different time, but bullying your own player over their sexuality to the extent that their entire career effectively collapses is not the mark of a good manager, or a decent man, whatever other great things Clough may have done.
I’d probably go for Ferguson over Venables, even with the persistent rumours that both were crooked - Ferguson’s been a vital part of the creation of modern football, not sure one single person has ever had quite the same effect on the game as a whole, or could ever again.
And of course, Ferguson never bullied anyone, ever.
Anyone remember Venables taking over, languishing in Div 2. Not long after then taking West ham apart 3-0 at LR in the school end. Brilliant. Loved going away turning teams over, Wolves and Norwich.
Saddest day for me was Gregory not selling to Venables. We could have been a real force.
Clough my all time favorite though. Loved Sexton as well. Venables football definitely influenced by sexton.
Anyone remember Venables taking over, languishing in Div 2. Not long after then taking West ham apart 3-0 at LR in the school end. Brilliant. Loved going away turning teams over, Wolves and Norwich.
Saddest day for me was Gregory not selling to Venables. We could have been a real force.
Clough my all time favorite though. Loved Sexton as well. Venables football definitely influenced by sexton.
Apparently so. He had recently joined the board as a director and shareholder in addition to the managerial duties and there was speculation in the papers at the time that TV was trying to get a consortium together to buy out Gregory but then Barcelona came calling...
Apparently so. He had recently joined the board as a director and shareholder in addition to the managerial duties and there was speculation in the papers at the time that TV was trying to get a consortium together to buy out Gregory but then Barcelona came calling...
Venables, great coach, absolutely terrible businessman, left a trail of bankruptcies behind him.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
