| (No subject) on 10:07 - Jul 19 with 3211 views | Northernr |
| (No subject) on 23:02 - Jul 18 by PunteR |
I'm not trying to advocate hammering TF on Twitter but i can sort of see the fans frustrations. Especially when they can see clearly how football works these days,basically You buy good players, end of.
I maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed but even i know that just trying to buy success wont necessarily improve the club . We need to build solid foundations, i've been saying it for years, but we need to invest in it and it seems to me TF is just shutting up shop. [Post edited 18 Jul 2017 23:03]
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Agree with the second bit about the foundations and Fernandes seemingly shutting up shop, but this attitude that the only way to achieve success in football these days is to buy good players and whoever buys more of the good players wins is exactly the sort of Harry Redknapp, Mark Hughes-attitude that got us into this state in the first place. In fact it's almost a direct Redknapp quote.
With transfer fees the way they are for a club the size of QPR it's actually the exact opposite. If they try to achieve success by buying good players they'll end up spending more than they can afford on players that aren't as good as the ones the bigger, richer clubs buy. You stand still or go backwards while spending a lot of money to do it. QPR more than most need to think a lot smarter than that, and there are clubs smaller than ours doing exactly that and going past us.
It's the Moneyball quote - if we think like the Yankees off the field we will lose to the Yankees on the field.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | |  |
| (No subject) on 10:18 - Jul 19 with 3181 views | paulparker |
| (No subject) on 09:00 - Jul 19 by Metallica_Hoop |
I'm actually happy to support a club that promotes our own and gets cheap to develop players.
I couldn't care less if we wont be signing anymore 'big', 'known', 'sought after' names.
[Post edited 19 Jul 2017 9:02]
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+1
In the shambles of our last premier league campaign we all said we wanted QPR men behind the scenes with the club using youth and buying at the right price, we all agreed we wanted players giving their all and getting back to how we used to be
well we have that now, we have Birch, Furlong, Olly, Les, Penrice, Sinton all involved in the club and you cannot more QPR than these men ,
we have to get behind them , I don't agree with a lot of what is happening but at the moment its a needs must, if anyone should be copping stick its Fernades over 250 million wasted yet we still train in a glorified park |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 10:33 - Jul 19 with 3123 views | runningman75 |
We were probably in a worse position the season we got relegated to league 1 when we went into administration. Remember getting beaten by Stockport county and feeling at rock bottom. Hopefully the team can do better than expectations but football not as high a priority for me in a world when Manchester United can spend over £70 million for 1 player whilst other clubs struggle. |  | | |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 10:35 - Jul 19 with 3115 views | qpr1976 |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 20:34 - Jul 18 by daveB |
can't over spend and go for it under FFP and we shouldn't either. It's never worked for us before so why do it again |
It did once !
We got promoted, albeit luckily via the Playoffs. But if it hadn't we'd currently be under a transfer embargo.
Problem was, we spent bigger still and got relegated. | | | |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 10:36 - Jul 19 with 3108 views | Northernr |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 10:35 - Jul 19 by qpr1976 |
It did once !
We got promoted, albeit luckily via the Playoffs. But if it hadn't we'd currently be under a transfer embargo.
Problem was, we spent bigger still and got relegated. |
One goal in injury time playing with ten men away from a complete financial obliteration of the club, which now looks like happening anyway. Not sure you can quite say it "worked". | | | |
| (No subject) on 10:44 - Jul 19 with 3091 views | PunteR |
I think the club have to look at why all those big money players we had just didnt perform for us.
Its all well and good saying they were all bad eggs but really !? All 150 of them..?! (Or however many?).
There seems to be something wrong behind the scenes at our club. Shabby training facilities?, 2nd rate coaching? No ethos? Lack of leadership and direction from above at board level..? I dunno but Holloway came to the club buzzing, full of ideas and enthusiasm and now that looks like its waning. I really hope we get a good start and the team spirit is good behind the scenes. I actually think we have a half decent team for this league and i really hope Holloway weaves his magic because i think we're going to need it.. tough season ahead. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 10:57 - Jul 19 with 3049 views | qpr1976 |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 10:36 - Jul 19 by Northernr |
One goal in injury time playing with ten men away from a complete financial obliteration of the club, which now looks like happening anyway. Not sure you can quite say it "worked". |
I did say we were lucky.
If the aim was to bounce back & get promoted again at the 1st attempt, then it 'worked' !
But I'm not advocating it, I'd rather we cut our cloth, find up & coming players and develope them into better players. Even if it means selling them on (at a profit).
The next few years are going to be tough IMO
We gambled, we won a few hands, but in the end we lost. And we lost Big. | | | |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:05 - Jul 19 with 3024 views | daveB |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 10:35 - Jul 19 by qpr1976 |
It did once !
We got promoted, albeit luckily via the Playoffs. But if it hadn't we'd currently be under a transfer embargo.
Problem was, we spent bigger still and got relegated. |
It didn't work well, from 2007 to 2015 we spent an absolute fortune on about 10 different teams 11 managers and ended up back in the Championship in far more debt than we'd ever been in before winning less promotions than Burnley did in the same time spending feck all |  | | |
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:09 - Jul 19 with 3014 views | Hooped_Pullie |
I share most of the genuine concerns about the lack of Championship-level signings to augment the squad (particularly when the likes of Brentford seem to be doing it so shrewdly this summer), but...
Towards the back end of last season we had players capable of going on an amazing winning run in this bloody tough division. What I think freaks us out is that we followed that with an equally amazing losing run which almost saw us head for League One. With August just around the corner, we still have the same players & manager who - in the space of a couple of months - both did us proud and caused us to enter a pit of despair.
Starting against Reading, we have no idea if the Jekyll or the Hyde team will turn up. Against Leeds & Cardiff last season, we started quite brilliantly, and look at where we ended up...almost in the Doudou (remember him ?). If though we don't find out exactly what the position is behind the scenes, time may tell : a very bad start to the season would (I reckon) lead to a bit of purse-string loosening if it were calculated that relegation could cost us more, assuming that FFP is not the direct staying hand in all of this : if it is, than there will be nothing that TF & co can do but sit on their hands till the window closes, and hope that Ian can turn it round or that an old mate in a gilet can step in and salvage his own rapidly trashed reputation.
As regards fans turning up, it's hard to say : personally, I stoically renewed my ST relentlessly through 1996-2006, although a 'gold area' seat at Ellerslie in those days was £250-£350 for the most part.
As with Brexit, Trump and Kim Jong-il, only the fullness of time will give us all of the answers we are looking for...
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:29 - Jul 19 with 2968 views | kensalriser |
Just on a simple point of physics - how can Olly still be holding the bomb if it's already gone off? |  |
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:33 - Jul 19 with 2949 views | hoof_hearted |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:29 - Jul 19 by kensalriser |
Just on a simple point of physics - how can Olly still be holding the bomb if it's already gone off? |
Maybe Olly is reintroducing the communal team bath and its just a bath bomb? But the fans don't even know about it yet. Shhhhh. |  | | |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:40 - Jul 19 with 2923 views | headhoops |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:05 - Jul 19 by daveB |
It didn't work well, from 2007 to 2015 we spent an absolute fortune on about 10 different teams 11 managers and ended up back in the Championship in far more debt than we'd ever been in before winning less promotions than Burnley did in the same time spending feck all |
Spot on Dave - I dont claim to be in the know but I am pretty confident (99%)that Burnley had a wage cap of £15K a week for all of their players . They retained most of the players who took them up, avoided the billy big bowlocks and got in a manager with a proper plan, commensurate with his players abilities.
I actually believe that our squad is not as rubbish as some are suggesting. Sure we are going to struggle against the Sunderland's etc but lets give this crop a chance. Play our best team in the right positions and stick with them. 5-6-7 changes every game is a recipe for disaster. Our original Warnock promotion side virtually picked itself.
Not being able to bring in more faces if that is what this is through FFP may well be a blessing in disguise. |  |
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:45 - Jul 19 with 2905 views | qpr1976 |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:05 - Jul 19 by daveB |
It didn't work well, from 2007 to 2015 we spent an absolute fortune on about 10 different teams 11 managers and ended up back in the Championship in far more debt than we'd ever been in before winning less promotions than Burnley did in the same time spending feck all |
I agree wholeheartedly, but your originalpoint was that it didn't work.
Pedantic maybe, but I was merely pointing out it did work once, albeit very fortunately but I don't recall too many at Wembley bemoaning our 2nd promotion in 4 years.
But on the while, I agree. We lost the plot when we 'allegedly' became the World's richest club ! | | | |
| (No subject) on 11:53 - Jul 19 with 2886 views | Antti_Heinola |
| (No subject) on 10:44 - Jul 19 by PunteR |
I think the club have to look at why all those big money players we had just didnt perform for us.
Its all well and good saying they were all bad eggs but really !? All 150 of them..?! (Or however many?).
There seems to be something wrong behind the scenes at our club. Shabby training facilities?, 2nd rate coaching? No ethos? Lack of leadership and direction from above at board level..? I dunno but Holloway came to the club buzzing, full of ideas and enthusiasm and now that looks like its waning. I really hope we get a good start and the team spirit is good behind the scenes. I actually think we have a half decent team for this league and i really hope Holloway weaves his magic because i think we're going to need it.. tough season ahead. |
Said this before, but...
hughes's big mistake was trying to do too much in one go in his first summer. He just signed too many players. Even so, I'll always believe that when we were playing well early on (and people forget how well we played v Swansea before losing 5-0 - it sounds mental, I know, but we played some great football for the first hour) such as in games v Spurs, had we got a nice early win, things *might* have been hugely different. It just felt that with so many new players, some belief was needed, but that win never came and as they were all new, there was no team ethic to carry them through. No one was saying at the time we were signing bad players. Several looked very promising. And we've seen since that Hughes can manage a team and keep them in mid table. He was a bad fit, that always seemed obvious, but I still think that an early win may have dramatically changed that season. And that's really where it all went tits up. |  |
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 12:34 - Jul 19 with 2807 views | davman |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 11:40 - Jul 19 by headhoops |
Spot on Dave - I dont claim to be in the know but I am pretty confident (99%)that Burnley had a wage cap of £15K a week for all of their players . They retained most of the players who took them up, avoided the billy big bowlocks and got in a manager with a proper plan, commensurate with his players abilities.
I actually believe that our squad is not as rubbish as some are suggesting. Sure we are going to struggle against the Sunderland's etc but lets give this crop a chance. Play our best team in the right positions and stick with them. 5-6-7 changes every game is a recipe for disaster. Our original Warnock promotion side virtually picked itself.
Not being able to bring in more faces if that is what this is through FFP may well be a blessing in disguise. |
...and Burnley clearly didn't use the same sports science shite we appear to that use algorithms to decide whether players are fit enough to play. If the first eleven is fit, they play, simples. That'd be good, wouldn't it? Ditch the Tombola! |  |
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 12:52 - Jul 19 with 2749 views | hoopdog |
Don't know if anybody else has thought maybe Ollie has had a tear up with Les I never thought it is a marriage made in heaven | | | |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 12:58 - Jul 19 with 2714 views | simmo |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 12:52 - Jul 19 by hoopdog |
Don't know if anybody else has thought maybe Ollie has had a tear up with Les I never thought it is a marriage made in heaven |
I don't think that's the case at all and there's nothing to indicate anything like that has happened. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 12:59 - Jul 19 with 2712 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 12:52 - Jul 19 by hoopdog |
Don't know if anybody else has thought maybe Ollie has had a tear up with Les I never thought it is a marriage made in heaven |
It's possible but Les isn't an owner so I don't think that's the case now. |  | | |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 13:12 - Jul 19 with 2675 views | spencer |
I don't know when it exactly started, The Mittals, Ecclestone, 2 x promotions....but we just got greedy....The fans included.
Before, we all used to hammer Chelsea and about how much money they used to and still spend. I say all....many fans on messageboards, at the ground etc...We all used to say....it would never happen to us....but it did and being such a small club, we are now feeling the backlash of piss poor management at all levels.
Over the past 5-10 years as I walked into Shepherds Bush....most of the locals appeared to be walking in the other direction. It surprises me that our fan base hasn't dwindled.
Social media isn't helping us much at the moment. Tony and Ian both using it to bad effect with fans just waiting to pounce.
Fans are not helping. One of the last home games last season....fans were already beginning to have a " small dig" at Ryan Manning.
I wish Ian had either kept his mouth shut, or come out and explained exactly what was happening. This sort of comment is just going to fuel the trolls. |  | | |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 13:40 - Jul 19 with 2602 views | QPR_Jim |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 21:11 - Jul 18 by LythamR |
I dont think Holloway is addressing the generally "eyes wide open" supporters on here. IF you go on the facebook groups and twitter there are plenty of delusional fans on there that somehow think we can and should be spunking money up the wall on top dollar signings. I think his comments are aimed in that direction.
As for FFP ruling, I dont see how that can be kept secret shurly the main point of any punishment is to act as a deterrent, bit pointless if punishments are never revealed.
Also if the owners really really wanted to get passed FFP couldnt they simply gift money to the club? |
I hope you're right with you're first paragraph, it's by far the best case scenario given his comments. I suppose it's just a waiting game now to see what happens.
Roll on the 5th August, so we can concentrate on the football for a while. |  | | |
| (No subject) on 14:07 - Jul 19 with 2528 views | Northernr |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 13:12 - Jul 19 by spencer |
I don't know when it exactly started, The Mittals, Ecclestone, 2 x promotions....but we just got greedy....The fans included.
Before, we all used to hammer Chelsea and about how much money they used to and still spend. I say all....many fans on messageboards, at the ground etc...We all used to say....it would never happen to us....but it did and being such a small club, we are now feeling the backlash of piss poor management at all levels.
Over the past 5-10 years as I walked into Shepherds Bush....most of the locals appeared to be walking in the other direction. It surprises me that our fan base hasn't dwindled.
Social media isn't helping us much at the moment. Tony and Ian both using it to bad effect with fans just waiting to pounce.
Fans are not helping. One of the last home games last season....fans were already beginning to have a " small dig" at Ryan Manning.
I wish Ian had either kept his mouth shut, or come out and explained exactly what was happening. This sort of comment is just going to fuel the trolls. |
Part of it is the modern game, Sky Sports News, social media, wall to wall coverage. Everybody wants everything right now. The transfer market, the managers getting sacked, the "war of words" - this stuff is now more important to many outlets than the actual matches. You'll never guess what Mourinho's said about Wenger now? Will get more clicks than Man Utd 1 Arsenal 1 Ratchford Rescues Mourinho's Side late. If you're club isn't signing players, something is wrong - that's the modern attitude.
Throw in the effect of Fifa 16, Football Manager, Twitter... All of this stuff makes supporters think they're experts.
It's also to do with money. The supporters are being asked to pay more than every before for everything - season tickets, match tickets, football shirts are all as expensive as they've ever been and are still increasing. I was amazed when we were in the Premier League that tickets at Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool etc were £54, and it was just sort of accepted that that's what they were. £216 for me and three mates to watch Spurs QPR? Are you having a fcking laugh?
This is all at a time when many people haven't had a pay rise at all for years, or are finding work hard to come by, or have a pay rise capped. It's like train tickets - you're getting poorer every year because this stuff is going up faster than your wage. So I think football supporters have gone from 'supporters' to 'customers', and customers are always right and customers demand service. They're looking at their £54 match ticket and they're not happy if their team is sht, or they're less sympathetic to anything that's less than brilliant. QPR have been where they are now, in the situation they are now, many times before, for prolonged periods of time, but these days it's seen as some sort of travesty requiring immediate answers.
It also filters down to the players because while we're all just getting by, or not getting by at all, and struggling to afford to go to the games, seriously mediocre footballers are absolutely coining stupid money in. So whereas before I'm not sure any of us would really have paid much attention to, say, James Perch, now the idea that somebody that mediocre is probably on £12k a week is disgusting to us, angers us, and manifests itself in us abusing him, which in turn is counter productive. We're now in a situation where home supporters are frequently more hostile to their own players than they are the visiting players - and that only ever used to be the case at Wolves.
At QPR specifically this all happened very suddenly and dramatically in one fell swoop. The first summer under Flavio we went from supporters who'd been through the mill, were just glad the club was safe and debt free, to an angry, rabid bunch of demanding arsholes because Briatore and Ali Russell made an absolute pig's ear of the season ticket prices - doubling, trebling them, introducing the gold, silver and bronze. That made people angry, rightly so. Suddenly, overnight, our club was the one charging us £200 more than it did before while giving Patrick Agyemang a four year contract on £12k a week. Remember the atmosphere of the first game that season against Barnsley, where we abused our own goalkeeper 15 minutes into his debut? That was the point it started at QPR.
Question is, is it reversible? Probably not without ten seriously horrible, lean years to the point where people stop caring/going/expecting anything.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 14:14 - Jul 19 with 2513 views | hoopdog |
| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 12:58 - Jul 19 by simmo |
I don't think that's the case at all and there's nothing to indicate anything like that has happened. |
Well I have it from a reliable source Ollie chinned Les stuck the nut on Hoos and Tony made a run for it | | | |
| (No subject) on 14:33 - Jul 19 with 2465 views | paulparker |
| (No subject) on 14:07 - Jul 19 by Northernr |
Part of it is the modern game, Sky Sports News, social media, wall to wall coverage. Everybody wants everything right now. The transfer market, the managers getting sacked, the "war of words" - this stuff is now more important to many outlets than the actual matches. You'll never guess what Mourinho's said about Wenger now? Will get more clicks than Man Utd 1 Arsenal 1 Ratchford Rescues Mourinho's Side late. If you're club isn't signing players, something is wrong - that's the modern attitude.
Throw in the effect of Fifa 16, Football Manager, Twitter... All of this stuff makes supporters think they're experts.
It's also to do with money. The supporters are being asked to pay more than every before for everything - season tickets, match tickets, football shirts are all as expensive as they've ever been and are still increasing. I was amazed when we were in the Premier League that tickets at Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool etc were £54, and it was just sort of accepted that that's what they were. £216 for me and three mates to watch Spurs QPR? Are you having a fcking laugh?
This is all at a time when many people haven't had a pay rise at all for years, or are finding work hard to come by, or have a pay rise capped. It's like train tickets - you're getting poorer every year because this stuff is going up faster than your wage. So I think football supporters have gone from 'supporters' to 'customers', and customers are always right and customers demand service. They're looking at their £54 match ticket and they're not happy if their team is sht, or they're less sympathetic to anything that's less than brilliant. QPR have been where they are now, in the situation they are now, many times before, for prolonged periods of time, but these days it's seen as some sort of travesty requiring immediate answers.
It also filters down to the players because while we're all just getting by, or not getting by at all, and struggling to afford to go to the games, seriously mediocre footballers are absolutely coining stupid money in. So whereas before I'm not sure any of us would really have paid much attention to, say, James Perch, now the idea that somebody that mediocre is probably on £12k a week is disgusting to us, angers us, and manifests itself in us abusing him, which in turn is counter productive. We're now in a situation where home supporters are frequently more hostile to their own players than they are the visiting players - and that only ever used to be the case at Wolves.
At QPR specifically this all happened very suddenly and dramatically in one fell swoop. The first summer under Flavio we went from supporters who'd been through the mill, were just glad the club was safe and debt free, to an angry, rabid bunch of demanding arsholes because Briatore and Ali Russell made an absolute pig's ear of the season ticket prices - doubling, trebling them, introducing the gold, silver and bronze. That made people angry, rightly so. Suddenly, overnight, our club was the one charging us £200 more than it did before while giving Patrick Agyemang a four year contract on £12k a week. Remember the atmosphere of the first game that season against Barnsley, where we abused our own goalkeeper 15 minutes into his debut? That was the point it started at QPR.
Question is, is it reversible? Probably not without ten seriously horrible, lean years to the point where people stop caring/going/expecting anything.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Agree with that but if any bunch of supporters had a bit of a right to get all giddy over expensive signings it was us , how many years was we in the doldrums scrapping around with buckets and what have you, training grounds locked, chqs bouncing , not paying players , gun battles etc etc
the funny thing is we had it sorted to a degree when Warnock was manager , we made canny signings like Hill, Kenny, Derry, Orr , Mackie and then some minor expensive ones Walker, Routledge, Miller (loan) Adel , Hulse we had a very good squad and team spirit then in one whole year we lost that to having that horrible tvvat mark hughes and his cronies and the rest is history | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
|
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| "QPR Fans don't know that 'the bomb has gone off'" on 14:37 - Jul 19 with 2445 views | timcocking |
Oh well, if theres no money, just do the best with what we have, c'est la vie. I'm not overly bothered. Although it's likely to be another tough year, which is probably more than some on here can cope with.
How shoite modern football has become. |  | | |
| (No subject) on 15:08 - Jul 19 with 2372 views | spencer |
| (No subject) on 14:33 - Jul 19 by paulparker |
Agree with that but if any bunch of supporters had a bit of a right to get all giddy over expensive signings it was us , how many years was we in the doldrums scrapping around with buckets and what have you, training grounds locked, chqs bouncing , not paying players , gun battles etc etc
the funny thing is we had it sorted to a degree when Warnock was manager , we made canny signings like Hill, Kenny, Derry, Orr , Mackie and then some minor expensive ones Walker, Routledge, Miller (loan) Adel , Hulse we had a very good squad and team spirit then in one whole year we lost that to having that horrible tvvat mark hughes and his cronies and the rest is history |
Paul...agree with that.
I liked the Warnock signings...they made a bit of sense... I also agree about...it was nice to have a decent signing or two.....until the signings just turned up for the money...and then the fans...or some fans..appeared to have a frontal lobotomy. By then and as Northernr has alluded to...the damage was done. Not sure if we will ever recover.
Perch and Bidwell are not the best full backs but boy do they get some stick. As does Perch's rival, Furlong. I even heard fans have a dig at Smithies last season...oh his kicking could be better. | | | |
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