| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 11:28 - Jul 27 with 6382 views | Mytch_QPR |
Some eye-watering figures in there, Clive - thanks for the report.
On the plus side, it's a very QPR thing to do 'firsts' so it feels quite natural for the club to be the first to be hit with a massive FFP fine. Trailblazers. |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 12:07 - Jul 27 with 6196 views | DejR_vu |
Paying the fine over the next 10 years is NOT a good thing except insofar as it avoids the board putting us into administration to avoid paying any higher amount in one instalment. If the Authorities had insisted on full payment of £17m now, AND insisted it be fully capitalised, that would be a good thing because the fine would have been paid and would'nt be on the balance sheet. Capitalising existing debt is irrelevant. This is just creating a future debt that will stay on the club's balance sheet for 10 years. That means the club has to pay it, which is fine if the owners are still here and still converting debt to equity, but if they manage to move it on they won't be paying it.
We were never going to get off lightly but this is NOT the owners covering the fine as they stated they would, unless they inject £17m now, place it in escrow, and convert this £17m in to equity. |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 12:26 - Jul 27 with 6100 views | daveB |
The big joke of it all is that we were found guilty due to writing off the money and turning it into equity and our punishment for doing that is to write off loans and turn into equity |  | | |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 12:37 - Jul 27 with 6032 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Good piece, Clive. Excellent stuff. |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 13:06 - Jul 27 with 5902 views | danehoop |
No. We were found guilty of breaching FFP. All that happened with the loans/equity issue. Was that the League disagreed with this being a mitigating solution to breaching FFP. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 13:16 - Jul 27 with 5874 views | Snipper |
If this has been discussed before, then I apologise, but if the fine is to do with the spending in the 2013/14 season, why are we being punished for contracts given out when we were a premier league club?
It’s like finding out you’ve come into money, buying a flash Mercedes, finding out you’ve not come into as much money as you’d thought, downsizing to a Ford Fiesta, but Ford’s fining you for buying the Mercedes.
It doesn’t make sense. |  | | |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 13:31 - Jul 27 with 5794 views | Gloucs_R |
Superb article Clive. Really well written and researched. Thanks for that. |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 13:41 - Jul 27 with 5737 views | bosh67 |
This is a bit of a result given what it could have been and over 10 years with no interest. We now need to make sure we have defensive and attacking options that allow us to get in players now and continue to bring through the kids, especially in jan when we can't get anyone in. |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 13:51 - Jul 27 with 5676 views | traininvain |
Not expecting a raft of big money signings. But now the club knows where it stands on the FFP fine and profitability / sustainability for this season, presumably we’re in a better position to make a couple of signings if needed? |  | | |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 14:08 - Jul 27 with 5590 views | davman |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 13:51 - Jul 27 by traininvain |
Not expecting a raft of big money signings. But now the club knows where it stands on the FFP fine and profitability / sustainability for this season, presumably we’re in a better position to make a couple of signings if needed? |
It puts things back in to perspective though. We are not, and never have been a massive club. We have done spectacularly well at some points, such as staying in the top flight from 1983 through to 1995, but on the size of our club and its fan base, we finished around about in the right place last season.
Even before the big money and still to some degree we are paying higher wages than other clubs similar in size to us and I'm afraid, even with our ridiculously wealthy owners, we still need to cut back.
It's going to need a miracle to get us up there again, but as long as there is a club left and as long as we are full of respectably paid players who give a toss, we have to be happy.
FFP simply stops anyone from breaking into the elite. It is wrong and its nuts that anyone outside the top 6 voted for it. Anyone should be permitted to spend whatever they want on a business or a football club as long as they are unable to claim that money they spend is a loan to the club that has to be paid back. If our owners want to go out and make cash purchases on players and put the funds to cover the price of that contract in the club's coffers, what's the problem? |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:16 - Jul 27 with 5356 views | simmo |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 13:51 - Jul 27 by traininvain |
Not expecting a raft of big money signings. But now the club knows where it stands on the FFP fine and profitability / sustainability for this season, presumably we’re in a better position to make a couple of signings if needed? |
I was thinking along the same lines, but even taking into account the wages saved with Chief, Robinson, etc all going, the lack of parachute payments really fck us and with our revenue not making much of a dent, we're doing well to tread water before we've spent a penny.
Basically we're hoping Eze turns into a £10m player while we have him under contract or we make a series of very cheap acquisitions and free transfers that catapult us into a random promotion. Otherwise it's more of last season. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:23 - Jul 27 with 5322 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:16 - Jul 27 by simmo |
I was thinking along the same lines, but even taking into account the wages saved with Chief, Robinson, etc all going, the lack of parachute payments really fck us and with our revenue not making much of a dent, we're doing well to tread water before we've spent a penny.
Basically we're hoping Eze turns into a £10m player while we have him under contract or we make a series of very cheap acquisitions and free transfers that catapult us into a random promotion. Otherwise it's more of last season. |
One more season of parachute payments. |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:34 - Jul 27 with 5252 views | kensalriser |
Does FFP really make it more difficult for smaller clubs to reach the Premier League? Look at these current 11 PL teams, nearly all of which have spent numerous seasons outside the PL in the last ten years.
What seems to have happened is the churn has increased, creating perhaps 20 clubs or so in a revolving, financially attritional battle for lower PL status while the top 6 steadily increase the wealth gap.
Bournemouth
Brighton
Burnley
Cardiff
Crystal Palace
Fulham
Huddersfield
Leicester
Southampton
Watford
Wolves |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:38 - Jul 27 with 5237 views | qprd |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 12:07 - Jul 27 by DejR_vu |
Paying the fine over the next 10 years is NOT a good thing except insofar as it avoids the board putting us into administration to avoid paying any higher amount in one instalment. If the Authorities had insisted on full payment of £17m now, AND insisted it be fully capitalised, that would be a good thing because the fine would have been paid and would'nt be on the balance sheet. Capitalising existing debt is irrelevant. This is just creating a future debt that will stay on the club's balance sheet for 10 years. That means the club has to pay it, which is fine if the owners are still here and still converting debt to equity, but if they manage to move it on they won't be paying it.
We were never going to get off lightly but this is NOT the owners covering the fine as they stated they would, unless they inject £17m now, place it in escrow, and convert this £17m in to equity. |
This is a good post, but i'll add three things:
if TF + RG continue to own the club for the next 10 years, it will be their liability
if TF + RG sell the club within 10 years, they still are the financial losers. lets say they want to sell to a Chinese investor today, and that investor values the club at 50m (excluding the fine). Accounting for the fine, the investors valuation would be 17m less. Its not quite that simple, but ultimately if the owners sell, the price they get for the sale is going to be discounted by this fine. TF + RG ultimately may not be the parties paying the fines, but they will still feel the full hurt of this fine
i think the owners lose either way... but qpr as a club also loses here, too.... ruben and tony are probably only willing to spend a certain amount on the club per year..... the 1.7m each year represents money that goes away from wages, transfer fees etc | | | |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:42 - Jul 27 with 5223 views | davman |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:34 - Jul 27 by kensalriser |
Does FFP really make it more difficult for smaller clubs to reach the Premier League? Look at these current 11 PL teams, nearly all of which have spent numerous seasons outside the PL in the last ten years.
What seems to have happened is the churn has increased, creating perhaps 20 clubs or so in a revolving, financially attritional battle for lower PL status while the top 6 steadily increase the wealth gap.
Bournemouth
Brighton
Burnley
Cardiff
Crystal Palace
Fulham
Huddersfield
Leicester
Southampton
Watford
Wolves |
The "churn" has always been there. It is only the top 7 that have maintained their Premier League Status since Sky's Horror Show started in 1992. Every other club is in flux.
I had a long conversation with a Baggie on the way to the Charlie Austin show at LR a few years back and he was banging on about them being an "Established Premier League club". I told him to wake up and smell the coffee - one bad season is all it takes to destroy a club like that. If they don't go back up in the next two seasons, I predict that they are well and truly fooked.
They are all the same.
The best thing we can all do once we get promoted is to invest the money off the pitch, get the academy going, improve the stadium for non-football revenues and invest that obscene money in our future. There is no point trying to compete long term - you may do it once in a while, but you won't sustain it.
West Ham paying £100,000 a week for an injury prone player - what could possibly go wrong? | |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:12 - Jul 27 with 5106 views | Rangersw12 |
Why are we due to record even bigger losses ?
We have been cutting costs for at least 3 years now
Personally think all we can hope for nowadays is to stay up. Thanks a lot Tony and co you have set the club back 20 years | | | |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:22 - Jul 27 with 5080 views | Northernr |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:12 - Jul 27 by Rangersw12 |
Why are we due to record even bigger losses ?
We have been cutting costs for at least 3 years now
Personally think all we can hope for nowadays is to stay up. Thanks a lot Tony and co you have set the club back 20 years |
The accounts released over the past two years included the two biggest parachute payments, money for Austin, money for Phillips and £10m for Sterling. |  | | |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:26 - Jul 27 with 5066 views | loftinspace |
This outcome was accurately predicted yesterday in a thread on here, based on publically available information.
Anyone know why it was removed? Is censorship a thing on here? | | | |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:46 - Jul 27 with 4987 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:26 - Jul 27 by loftinspace |
This outcome was accurately predicted yesterday in a thread on here, based on publically available information.
Anyone know why it was removed? Is censorship a thing on here? |
We’ve got another one lads!  |  |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:49 - Jul 27 with 4970 views | Rangersw12 |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:22 - Jul 27 by Northernr |
The accounts released over the past two years included the two biggest parachute payments, money for Austin, money for Phillips and £10m for Sterling. |
But we have reduced the wage bill considerably so I can't see how we can lose that much
The board have a lot to answer for | | | |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 17:14 - Jul 27 with 4872 views | DejR_vu |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:16 - Jul 27 by simmo |
I was thinking along the same lines, but even taking into account the wages saved with Chief, Robinson, etc all going, the lack of parachute payments really fck us and with our revenue not making much of a dent, we're doing well to tread water before we've spent a penny.
Basically we're hoping Eze turns into a £10m player while we have him under contract or we make a series of very cheap acquisitions and free transfers that catapult us into a random promotion. Otherwise it's more of last season. |
We'll do well staying in this division, never mind getting promoted. There are a few who make it against the odds, but they're few and far between and they're run far better than us. Everyone outside the top few in the Championship is trying the same thing to some extent. We've had our turn, twice, and blown it both times. With our infrastructure etc we're a lower Championsip/higher league 1 club and FFP / EPPP will make sure we stay there. | |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 17:17 - Jul 27 with 4856 views | SimonJames |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:22 - Jul 27 by Northernr |
The accounts released over the past two years included the two biggest parachute payments, money for Austin, money for Phillips and £10m for Sterling. |
Do we get any special dispensation for the (undoubtedly large) legal bills associated with fight this case (as well as Old Oak Common etc.)? |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 17:29 - Jul 27 with 4808 views | DejR_vu |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 16:12 - Jul 27 by Rangersw12 |
Why are we due to record even bigger losses ?
We have been cutting costs for at least 3 years now
Personally think all we can hope for nowadays is to stay up. Thanks a lot Tony and co you have set the club back 20 years |
I think we'll be lucky if it's only 20 years. Sorry, I appreciate this is really negative but, to compete, even in this division, we need Premier League money / parachute payments. If not, we have to be smarter, better run than everyone else, with less money than everyone else (higher stadium costs/lower attendances etc.), basically look to get promoted with one of the smallest budgets in the division. To date, this board has got just about everything they possibly could, very badly wrong. I just can't see how we're going to turn from a circus into one of the best run clubs in the country. | |
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| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 17:49 - Jul 27 with 4741 views | DejR_vu |
| QPR take FFP medicine, so when will things get better? Column on 15:38 - Jul 27 by qprd |
This is a good post, but i'll add three things:
if TF + RG continue to own the club for the next 10 years, it will be their liability
if TF + RG sell the club within 10 years, they still are the financial losers. lets say they want to sell to a Chinese investor today, and that investor values the club at 50m (excluding the fine). Accounting for the fine, the investors valuation would be 17m less. Its not quite that simple, but ultimately if the owners sell, the price they get for the sale is going to be discounted by this fine. TF + RG ultimately may not be the parties paying the fines, but they will still feel the full hurt of this fine
i think the owners lose either way... but qpr as a club also loses here, too.... ruben and tony are probably only willing to spend a certain amount on the club per year..... the 1.7m each year represents money that goes away from wages, transfer fees etc |
Your second point only stacks up if the debt and value of the club is similar. Once the debt exceeds the club value it's irrelevant as far as this scenario is concerned. There are legitimate reasons to convert debt to equity but capitalising existing debt makes no difference to the owners. Taking your £50m value example, if the debt is £100m, they sell for £50m and are £50m out of pocket. If, before sale, they converted £50m of the debt to equity, they sell for £50m and are still £50m out of pocket (the debt to equity swap). This is why having the fine spread over the next 10 years is bad news, because it is new debt being accrued. If the fine was payable in full now, was required to be capitalised, it would be the end of it.
If it made no difference to the owners, why not clear it now and wipe the slate clean? Because it does, potentially, make a very big difference to the owners. | |
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