| The Tories Are Bonkers! 08:51 - Dec 12 with 41592 views | BostonR |
Have been in the US since the summer and arrived back this week and going to the game on Sat.
I have watched the carnage in the US political system, but that was evened-out in the mid-term elections. Watching the madness this morning, it looks like a Tory coup by the ERG and other right-wing nut-cases.
I am no Tory, but May has to see them off before they throw this country under the bus! |  | | |  |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:13 - Dec 13 with 1985 views | pomanjou |
the referendum called for us to leave the EU plain and simple. leaving does not require a deal.
Lets just do that and keep the 39 billion in our pocket rather than give it to the thoroughly corrupt EU. They need us more than we need them.
They want a deal? do it on our terms. |  |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:42 - Dec 13 with 1908 views | daveB |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 22:46 - Dec 12 by QPR_Jim |
If the vote was 65/35 leave then it would be entirely pointless keeping remain as an option but it was close enough that the subsequent fumbling around, breaking of promises and inquiry into the leave campaign finances might have changed opinions substantially and enough to give remain a greater majority. Obviously nobody knows if that is the case, it may still be 52/48 but there's only one way to find out... |
If Remain is on the table it can't be sold as a peoples vote it would have to be a second referendum. There was so much bullshit last time from both sides it would be a good start to call this what it is and be open about it. |  | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:44 - Dec 13 with 1903 views | daveB |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 22:39 - Dec 12 by QPR_John |
But would the EU act logically or simply try to make an example to anybody else who dared to try to leave |
That the big problem by the look of it, many don't trust them to let the UK leave, I think if she gets something in writing that puts an end date on the back stop even if it's 10 years she'll have a far better chance of getting it through the commons. | | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:49 - Dec 13 with 1885 views | BostonR |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 08:25 - Dec 13 by Northernr |
I am enjoying that fcking wnkr Jacob Rees Mogg (recently brilliantly described as looking like a haunted Oxfam shop) doing the rounds last night saying that even though May has won this vote she should go to the Queen and resign anyway.
48-52 vote. Binding. Will of the people. Must be obeyed to the absolute nth degree.
200-117. Load of bolox. Dreadful result for the winner. Must resign. |
So it's ok for the Tory Party to have a second vote on their leader within a 2yr period but not ok for the country to perhaps have a second vote on Brexit.
Where the hell is JRM bag carrier Steve Baker who was so far up JRM backside it's embarrassing? To top it all you now have the bulk of the ERG group calling out the Chancellor for using the word extremist to describe them - what planet do these people live on? | | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:49 - Dec 13 with 1884 views | CiderwithRsie |
For God's sake someone start a football match, I can't stand much more of this. |  | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:50 - Dec 13 with 1884 views | kensalriser |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:13 - Dec 13 by pomanjou |
the referendum called for us to leave the EU plain and simple. leaving does not require a deal.
Lets just do that and keep the 39 billion in our pocket rather than give it to the thoroughly corrupt EU. They need us more than we need them.
They want a deal? do it on our terms. |
More complete and utter cluelessness.
One economy against 27 economies.
$3 trillion GDP against $17 trillion GDP.
The notion that 'they need us more than we need them' is completely delusional, as borne out by simple maths.
Fckin educate yourself. |  |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:50 - Dec 13 with 1883 views | BasingstokeR |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:44 - Dec 13 by daveB |
That the big problem by the look of it, many don't trust them to let the UK leave, I think if she gets something in writing that puts an end date on the back stop even if it's 10 years she'll have a far better chance of getting it through the commons. |
That is a problem if many people think (counterfactually) that its a case of the EU "letting" the UK leave; as its happening on the 29th of March legally unless something unexpected happens. No "let" about it - Article 50. |  | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:00 - Dec 13 with 1851 views | QPR_John |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:50 - Dec 13 by BasingstokeR |
That is a problem if many people think (counterfactually) that its a case of the EU "letting" the UK leave; as its happening on the 29th of March legally unless something unexpected happens. No "let" about it - Article 50. |
I think there is a little misunderstanding here. The reference to the EU not letting us leave refers to the backstop not article 50 | | | |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:05 - Dec 13 with 1840 views | distortR |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:50 - Dec 13 by kensalriser |
More complete and utter cluelessness.
One economy against 27 economies.
$3 trillion GDP against $17 trillion GDP.
The notion that 'they need us more than we need them' is completely delusional, as borne out by simple maths.
Fckin educate yourself. |
it's a complex issue, you have the EU economy, but you also have the nation's within the EU safe-guarding their individual economies.
but please - let's not start name calling and shouting, and keep it civil. [Post edited 13 Dec 2018 11:07]
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:23 - Dec 13 with 1794 views | Mick_S |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:49 - Dec 13 by CiderwithRsie |
For God's sake someone start a football match, I can't stand much more of this. |
Anyone fancy a pint?
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| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:25 - Dec 13 with 1789 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:13 - Dec 13 by pomanjou |
the referendum called for us to leave the EU plain and simple. leaving does not require a deal.
Lets just do that and keep the 39 billion in our pocket rather than give it to the thoroughly corrupt EU. They need us more than we need them.
They want a deal? do it on our terms. |
It's the remoaners voting you down
It's only the remoaners wanting another vote and if they won by just 1 vote would never want another vote.
As far as I can see, most politicians from whatever side, have from the day after the referendum done everything they can to fudge it, to stop it.
The referendum was a simple question, In/Out so that result should be upheld, end of. |  |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:30 - Dec 13 with 1771 views | Toast_R |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 10:50 - Dec 13 by kensalriser |
More complete and utter cluelessness.
One economy against 27 economies.
$3 trillion GDP against $17 trillion GDP.
The notion that 'they need us more than we need them' is completely delusional, as borne out by simple maths.
Fckin educate yourself. |
When Brexit was called in 2016 Europe had lost all it's GDP since 2007. Meanwhile America had regained back all their GDP.
France, Italy and Spains accounts - 1200 Billion Euros still in the Red with an unemployment figure double that of the UK. Uncovered banking gaps of 1.7 Trillion Euro's.
Open Europe predicted that the maximum damage to the UK after Brexit is around -1% GDP. Europe exports to the UK 10 times more than what the UK Exports to Europe. How are Spain, Germany and France going to cope with losing Billions in Exports by blocking trade with the UK? Not going to do their repulsive unemployment figures much good?
Meanwhile the UK has 2.2 Billion consumer opportunities outside the EU. I would say the EU needs us. |  | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:01 - Dec 13 with 1685 views | BasingstokeR |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:00 - Dec 13 by QPR_John |
I think there is a little misunderstanding here. The reference to the EU not letting us leave refers to the backstop not article 50 |
The 'backstop' is something post 29th March after we've left though?
The misunderstanding is that being in the transition post leaving is somehow still being in the EU no? | | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:06 - Dec 13 with 1675 views | Mytch_QPR |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:25 - Dec 13 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
It's the remoaners voting you down
It's only the remoaners wanting another vote and if they won by just 1 vote would never want another vote.
As far as I can see, most politicians from whatever side, have from the day after the referendum done everything they can to fudge it, to stop it.
The referendum was a simple question, In/Out so that result should be upheld, end of. |
The politicians job is also to protect the country.
If we went with the no deal approach and the whole thing went to rat poo I expect you'd be having a go at the same politicians. |  |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:17 - Dec 13 with 1640 views | Toast_R |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:06 - Dec 13 by Mytch_QPR |
The politicians job is also to protect the country.
If we went with the no deal approach and the whole thing went to rat poo I expect you'd be having a go at the same politicians. |
And whenever have they done that exactly?
Im my experience, a politicians job is to stay in power [Post edited 13 Dec 2018 12:19]
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:24 - Dec 13 with 1628 views | Cliff |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:25 - Dec 13 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
It's the remoaners voting you down
It's only the remoaners wanting another vote and if they won by just 1 vote would never want another vote.
As far as I can see, most politicians from whatever side, have from the day after the referendum done everything they can to fudge it, to stop it.
The referendum was a simple question, In/Out so that result should be upheld, end of. |
However, seeing as the vote was by the narrowest of margins, I assume you agree it should be the softest brexit possible? |  | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:26 - Dec 13 with 1621 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:06 - Dec 13 by Mytch_QPR |
The politicians job is also to protect the country.
If we went with the no deal approach and the whole thing went to rat poo I expect you'd be having a go at the same politicians. |
You may not be aware, it's already rat poo
Utter shite that come out of the Tories ass by having a referendum in the first place for in party politics.Rats the lot of them. | |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:27 - Dec 13 with 1606 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:24 - Dec 13 by Cliff |
However, seeing as the vote was by the narrowest of margins, I assume you agree it should be the softest brexit possible? |
Well, soft looks like not leaving if the EU still dictates the rules.
Hard is OUT
Soft is wishy-washy not in and not out. [Post edited 13 Dec 2018 12:29]
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:28 - Dec 13 with 1603 views | loftboy |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:24 - Dec 13 by Cliff |
However, seeing as the vote was by the narrowest of margins, I assume you agree it should be the softest brexit possible? |
What do you mean by soft Brexit, either we leave or we don’t? |  |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:29 - Dec 13 with 1596 views | Mytch_QPR |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:17 - Dec 13 by Toast_R |
And whenever have they done that exactly?
Im my experience, a politicians job is to stay in power [Post edited 13 Dec 2018 12:19]
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Okay - you have a point, but political parties would not stay in power if they dropped a major bollock - just look at Labour and the global crash in 2008.
If the current lot crashed out of the EU without any deals / border arrangements they'd long be remembered for the consequences.
They won't let that happen - clearly that's why we have the current state of paralysis. | |
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:30 - Dec 13 with 1588 views | Cliff |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:28 - Dec 13 by loftboy |
What do you mean by soft Brexit, either we leave or we don’t? |
I guess given where we are now it means the "May" Deal as opposed to the No Deal | | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:31 - Dec 13 with 1580 views | Cliff |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 11:30 - Dec 13 by Toast_R |
When Brexit was called in 2016 Europe had lost all it's GDP since 2007. Meanwhile America had regained back all their GDP.
France, Italy and Spains accounts - 1200 Billion Euros still in the Red with an unemployment figure double that of the UK. Uncovered banking gaps of 1.7 Trillion Euro's.
Open Europe predicted that the maximum damage to the UK after Brexit is around -1% GDP. Europe exports to the UK 10 times more than what the UK Exports to Europe. How are Spain, Germany and France going to cope with losing Billions in Exports by blocking trade with the UK? Not going to do their repulsive unemployment figures much good?
Meanwhile the UK has 2.2 Billion consumer opportunities outside the EU. I would say the EU needs us. |
From:
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851
"The EU, taken as a whole is the UK’s largest trading partner. In 2017, UK exports to the EU were £274 billion (44% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £341 billion (53% of all UK imports).
The share of UK exports accounted for by the EU has fallen over time from 55% in 2006 to 43% in 2016, increasing slightly to 44% in 2017.
The share of UK imports accounted for by the EU fell from 58% in 2002 to 51% in 2011 before increasing to 53% in 2017."
Not quite 10 times is it? | | | |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:57 - Dec 13 with 1531 views | hopphoops |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:31 - Dec 13 by Cliff |
From:
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851
"The EU, taken as a whole is the UK’s largest trading partner. In 2017, UK exports to the EU were £274 billion (44% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £341 billion (53% of all UK imports).
The share of UK exports accounted for by the EU has fallen over time from 55% in 2006 to 43% in 2016, increasing slightly to 44% in 2017.
The share of UK imports accounted for by the EU fell from 58% in 2002 to 51% in 2011 before increasing to 53% in 2017."
Not quite 10 times is it? |
Also, the 44% of all UK exports going to the EU compares to 8% of EU exports (including EU members' exports to other countries within the EU) going to the UK.
The UK is on the wrong side of an asymmetric "bacon and egg" war - it's the pig that stands to lose the bacon while the EU is the chicken that stands to lose the egg.
https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/ [Post edited 13 Dec 2018 13:12]
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| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:59 - Dec 13 with 1526 views | R_from_afar |
| The Tories Are Bonkers! on 12:28 - Dec 13 by loftboy |
What do you mean by soft Brexit, either we leave or we don’t? |
It just isn't that simple. We need to decide:
- how we want to trade with the EU once we are out
- what to do about Europeans who already live, work and pay tax here
- what to do about ex-pats living in continental Europe
- disentangle ourselves from 45 years' worth of treaties, standards and regulations, many of which benefit us
- what we do about allowing EU citizens to work here post-Brexit; bear in mind that we have record levels of employment and crippling staff shortages in many areas, e.g. the NHS, for both highly skilled and less skilled workers. The Tories appear to be failing to understand the realities of the current labour market; yes we will need very talented people but we will also need cheaper, less skilled labour to work in - random examples - agriculture, the care industry, hospitals...
There is no cave system harbouring millions of highly skilled workers - all of whom can point to their surname in the Doomsday Book - who have been waiting for overseas workers to clear off so they can step in and start being gainfully employed.
OK, I am a Labour voter, but it really worries me that some - not all - Tories simply do not understand the realities of modern Britain. You can add the situation with employment and benefits into the mix too: It's a fallacy that benefits primarily go to the unemployed. More claimants have jobs than not.
And breathe...
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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