| Man City dodge FFP on 12:33 - Jul 13 with 1419 views | Lblock |
"Only a few million a year"
Brian.... If I'd of uttered that phrase to you all those years ago at Willesden college during our Investment Analysis module you'd have spat your bottle of Panda Bear Cream Soda out.
That money could be going on decent infrastructure investment (yeah right) our funding the wages of yet another Premiership Academy kid we're trying to toughen up for someone else.
We got mullah'd and despite the owners sabre rattling that we'd defend ourselves to the hilt we can say, with hindsight I admit, that we got well and truly stiffed and put in our place. As can be seen by others breaking the rules, our treatment was not an example that others took on board. In the case of Brum I believe they've even broken the rules twice and still haven't had anywhere near the cross to bear that we have.
I'd be seriously questioning if I'd be paying the next instalments of our fine if I was Bungle and the Boys, seems play the long game and head to the Sport Arbitration process and you'll win. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 12:37 - Jul 13 with 1413 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Man City dodge FFP on 12:33 - Jul 13 by Lblock |
"Only a few million a year"
Brian.... If I'd of uttered that phrase to you all those years ago at Willesden college during our Investment Analysis module you'd have spat your bottle of Panda Bear Cream Soda out.
That money could be going on decent infrastructure investment (yeah right) our funding the wages of yet another Premiership Academy kid we're trying to toughen up for someone else.
We got mullah'd and despite the owners sabre rattling that we'd defend ourselves to the hilt we can say, with hindsight I admit, that we got well and truly stiffed and put in our place. As can be seen by others breaking the rules, our treatment was not an example that others took on board. In the case of Brum I believe they've even broken the rules twice and still haven't had anywhere near the cross to bear that we have.
I'd be seriously questioning if I'd be paying the next instalments of our fine if I was Bungle and the Boys, seems play the long game and head to the Sport Arbitration process and you'll win. |
"Brian.... If I'd of uttered that phrase to you all those years ago at Willesden college during our Investment Analysis module you'd have spat your bottle of Panda Bear Cream Soda out.
That money could be going on decent infrastructure investment (yeah right) our funding the wages of yet another Premiership Academy kid we're trying to toughen up for someone else."
But it can't LB. The owners are spending everything they can within the rules of FFP, and the fine repayments are outside of FFP.
And don't knock Panda Bear Cream Soda. It got me through many a structures lecture! |  |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 13:27 - Jul 13 with 1339 views | Lblock |
| Man City dodge FFP on 12:37 - Jul 13 by BrianMcCarthy |
"Brian.... If I'd of uttered that phrase to you all those years ago at Willesden college during our Investment Analysis module you'd have spat your bottle of Panda Bear Cream Soda out.
That money could be going on decent infrastructure investment (yeah right) our funding the wages of yet another Premiership Academy kid we're trying to toughen up for someone else."
But it can't LB. The owners are spending everything they can within the rules of FFP, and the fine repayments are outside of FFP.
And don't knock Panda Bear Cream Soda. It got me through many a structures lecture! |
Aware of the FFP fine outside of playing budget restriction but it'll be part of the overall budget... that was the point I was trying to get across.
I think next years budget could be a real shocker. | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 14:24 - Jul 13 with 1273 views | joe90 |
| Man City dodge FFP on 10:03 - Jul 13 by QPR_John |
Again they have not got away with it they have been fined £10M. This is the route I think we should have taken that the punishment was excessive and disproportionate to the crime. |
The 10m fine isn't for breaching FFP rules but for failing to co-operate with the investigation.
They were going to be banned from Europe and fined 30m (as I understand) and the independent body investigating the case concluded that it was not an appropriate punishment and reduced the punishment to a 10m fine.
What concerns us is the reason the FFP charges have gone out the window which we don't yet know. |  | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:33 - Jul 13 with 1256 views | QPR_John |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:24 - Jul 13 by joe90 |
The 10m fine isn't for breaching FFP rules but for failing to co-operate with the investigation.
They were going to be banned from Europe and fined 30m (as I understand) and the independent body investigating the case concluded that it was not an appropriate punishment and reduced the punishment to a 10m fine.
What concerns us is the reason the FFP charges have gone out the window which we don't yet know. |
Having reread the article I think you are right. But your conclusion then is wrong. If the fine is for not cooperating then there is no punishment for breaking FFP hence they did not break FFP. The FFP fine was not reduced but overturned. |  | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:37 - Jul 13 with 1243 views | Konk |
I've just come off the phone to Sheikh Mansour, and I can tell you that he is in pieces. £10m quid. How the fu ck is he supposed to find that sort of money? He doesn't know which way to turn - he's had to tell the kids they won't be going on holiday this year. Can you imagine? His little lad, bucket and spade in hand, tears rolling down his face. His wife's been down the pawn shop, getting £60 for her engagement ring and the kids' Nintendo. So far, he's cobbled together just over £400. I told him to calm down, speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau - organise instalments or something - maybe pay it off £5 a week, but he can't see a way out of this. He's already working in a bookies at the weekend and driving a minicab in the evenings to top-up what he earns from ruling Abu Dhabi. And the timing couldn't be any worse because his washing machine's just packed up too.
Without help from the wider football community, there's a real chance that Man City could be the next Bury. I've set myself the target of raising £10,000,500 to help Sheikh Mansour pay the fine, get the kids' Nintendo back, replace the washing machine and send his kids to Clacton for a few days. If you'd like to help a good cause then please sponsor me and forward the link to everyone you have ever met. I will be walking from my home in Ashton to Ashton Gate football ground and then home again.
Aside from my efforts, Kevin De Bruyne, David Silva and Raheem Sterling have organised a cake sale, Phil Foden's washing all the cars on his Mum and Dad's cul-de-sac, and Keith Curle is doing face painting, so everyone is doing their bit. Don't just stand by a watch UEFA kill a proud old club. Donate today. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 14:41 - Jul 13 with 1227 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I'd like to help Konk, but I'm doing chin-ups for climate change.
I'm not saying climate change is a worthier cause. i would never say that. But they asked me first. Sorry man. | |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 14:49 - Jul 13 with 1209 views | flynnbo |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:37 - Jul 13 by Konk |
I've just come off the phone to Sheikh Mansour, and I can tell you that he is in pieces. £10m quid. How the fu ck is he supposed to find that sort of money? He doesn't know which way to turn - he's had to tell the kids they won't be going on holiday this year. Can you imagine? His little lad, bucket and spade in hand, tears rolling down his face. His wife's been down the pawn shop, getting £60 for her engagement ring and the kids' Nintendo. So far, he's cobbled together just over £400. I told him to calm down, speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau - organise instalments or something - maybe pay it off £5 a week, but he can't see a way out of this. He's already working in a bookies at the weekend and driving a minicab in the evenings to top-up what he earns from ruling Abu Dhabi. And the timing couldn't be any worse because his washing machine's just packed up too.
Without help from the wider football community, there's a real chance that Man City could be the next Bury. I've set myself the target of raising £10,000,500 to help Sheikh Mansour pay the fine, get the kids' Nintendo back, replace the washing machine and send his kids to Clacton for a few days. If you'd like to help a good cause then please sponsor me and forward the link to everyone you have ever met. I will be walking from my home in Ashton to Ashton Gate football ground and then home again.
Aside from my efforts, Kevin De Bruyne, David Silva and Raheem Sterling have organised a cake sale, Phil Foden's washing all the cars on his Mum and Dad's cul-de-sac, and Keith Curle is doing face painting, so everyone is doing their bit. Don't just stand by a watch UEFA kill a proud old club. Donate today. |
Maybe we can set up a Gofundme page. |  | | |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 15:00 - Jul 13 with 1180 views | joe90 |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:33 - Jul 13 by QPR_John |
Having reread the article I think you are right. But your conclusion then is wrong. If the fine is for not cooperating then there is no punishment for breaking FFP hence they did not break FFP. The FFP fine was not reduced but overturned. |
My conclusion isn't wrong, but perhaps not worded properly.
In my conclusion I'm referring to the charge against them - that being the alleged FFP breach. This is separate to the fine they've received for not co-operating with the investigation, which was reduced to 10m.
I think we do want to know why the charges for the alleged FFP breach was dropped. [Post edited 13 Jul 2020 15:06]
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| Man City dodge FFP on 15:03 - Jul 13 with 1174 views | StanFan |
I've always thought that FFP is targeting the wrong thing. If you want to make clubs sustainable don't limit their losses / their spend. Instead limit their level of debt. It is the debt that puts clubs out of business. That way owners can spend as much as they want but they can't saddle the clubs with the debt. They can make losses as big as they like but they have to fund it.
I am sure that the current approach was selected purely to stop smaller clubs competing by having owners who are prepared to spend big (like Man City & Chelsea did, to name just 2). |  | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:04 - Jul 13 with 1169 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:03 - Jul 13 by StanFan |
I've always thought that FFP is targeting the wrong thing. If you want to make clubs sustainable don't limit their losses / their spend. Instead limit their level of debt. It is the debt that puts clubs out of business. That way owners can spend as much as they want but they can't saddle the clubs with the debt. They can make losses as big as they like but they have to fund it.
I am sure that the current approach was selected purely to stop smaller clubs competing by having owners who are prepared to spend big (like Man City & Chelsea did, to name just 2). |
Excellent post. | |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 15:19 - Jul 13 with 1122 views | joe90 |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:03 - Jul 13 by StanFan |
I've always thought that FFP is targeting the wrong thing. If you want to make clubs sustainable don't limit their losses / their spend. Instead limit their level of debt. It is the debt that puts clubs out of business. That way owners can spend as much as they want but they can't saddle the clubs with the debt. They can make losses as big as they like but they have to fund it.
I am sure that the current approach was selected purely to stop smaller clubs competing by having owners who are prepared to spend big (like Man City & Chelsea did, to name just 2). |
How does that work?
Does excessive loss just become debt once the rich owner decides they want sell? Surely its not prudent to run at a loss?
Personally I think there needs to be a wage cap. | | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:21 - Jul 13 with 1114 views | QPR_John |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:00 - Jul 13 by joe90 |
My conclusion isn't wrong, but perhaps not worded properly.
In my conclusion I'm referring to the charge against them - that being the alleged FFP breach. This is separate to the fine they've received for not co-operating with the investigation, which was reduced to 10m.
I think we do want to know why the charges for the alleged FFP breach was dropped. [Post edited 13 Jul 2020 15:06]
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Sorry for the misunderstanding. I doubt we will hear anything I imagine EUFA are licking their wounds and City will be just happy with the result. | | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:22 - Jul 13 with 1112 views | Match82 |
| Man City dodge FFP on 11:58 - Jul 13 by kensalriser |
Isn't a salary cap unworkable though? So many clubs now are owned from overseas now you can easily imagine the extras paid from one Cayman Islands account to another. |
Salary cap works well in the US where you have a self contained infrastructure. No top basketball star really wants to go and play in (for example) Canada, the quality of the play and the pay just aren't there. And just as importantly it's a closed shop, no promotion or relegation.
But think about trying to do that in England.
Are you going to have the same cap in the Premier League as the Championship, and League 1 and League 2?
If yes, you're effectively doing nothing in the champ and below because those clubs aren't able to pay a fraction of what top prem clubs do
If no, how do you account for clubs moving down from the Prem? An automatic reduction in wages is going to stop players wanting to move to lower prem clubs which just makes the gap to the top clubs even bigger. Allowing them to keep same wages means that the relegated club will likely have to overhaul 80% of the team to stay in compliance - and those players are on multi year contracts, what do you do with them?
Is this going to be England only?
If yes then unless you set the cap exceptionally high (in which case what's the point) then all the best players will move abroad.
If no then you have to deal with currency fluctuations. One pound might be worth 1 Euro now but what about by the end of the year? If it is worth 1.2 Euros then one of the two leagues has to change it's salary cap by 20% for the following season. |  | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:25 - Jul 13 with 1104 views | QPR_John |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:03 - Jul 13 by StanFan |
I've always thought that FFP is targeting the wrong thing. If you want to make clubs sustainable don't limit their losses / their spend. Instead limit their level of debt. It is the debt that puts clubs out of business. That way owners can spend as much as they want but they can't saddle the clubs with the debt. They can make losses as big as they like but they have to fund it.
I am sure that the current approach was selected purely to stop smaller clubs competing by having owners who are prepared to spend big (like Man City & Chelsea did, to name just 2). |
"I am sure that the current approach was selected purely to stop smaller clubs competing by having owners who are prepared to spend big (like Man City & Chelsea did, to name just 2)."
I think that is now accepted by any right thinking person and this verdict in favour of Manchester City is just another hole in the wall | | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:26 - Jul 13 with 1100 views | Stanisgod |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:37 - Jul 13 by Konk |
I've just come off the phone to Sheikh Mansour, and I can tell you that he is in pieces. £10m quid. How the fu ck is he supposed to find that sort of money? He doesn't know which way to turn - he's had to tell the kids they won't be going on holiday this year. Can you imagine? His little lad, bucket and spade in hand, tears rolling down his face. His wife's been down the pawn shop, getting £60 for her engagement ring and the kids' Nintendo. So far, he's cobbled together just over £400. I told him to calm down, speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau - organise instalments or something - maybe pay it off £5 a week, but he can't see a way out of this. He's already working in a bookies at the weekend and driving a minicab in the evenings to top-up what he earns from ruling Abu Dhabi. And the timing couldn't be any worse because his washing machine's just packed up too.
Without help from the wider football community, there's a real chance that Man City could be the next Bury. I've set myself the target of raising £10,000,500 to help Sheikh Mansour pay the fine, get the kids' Nintendo back, replace the washing machine and send his kids to Clacton for a few days. If you'd like to help a good cause then please sponsor me and forward the link to everyone you have ever met. I will be walking from my home in Ashton to Ashton Gate football ground and then home again.
Aside from my efforts, Kevin De Bruyne, David Silva and Raheem Sterling have organised a cake sale, Phil Foden's washing all the cars on his Mum and Dad's cul-de-sac, and Keith Curle is doing face painting, so everyone is doing their bit. Don't just stand by a watch UEFA kill a proud old club. Donate today. |
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| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 15:30 - Jul 13 with 1084 views | kensalriser |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:22 - Jul 13 by Match82 |
Salary cap works well in the US where you have a self contained infrastructure. No top basketball star really wants to go and play in (for example) Canada, the quality of the play and the pay just aren't there. And just as importantly it's a closed shop, no promotion or relegation.
But think about trying to do that in England.
Are you going to have the same cap in the Premier League as the Championship, and League 1 and League 2?
If yes, you're effectively doing nothing in the champ and below because those clubs aren't able to pay a fraction of what top prem clubs do
If no, how do you account for clubs moving down from the Prem? An automatic reduction in wages is going to stop players wanting to move to lower prem clubs which just makes the gap to the top clubs even bigger. Allowing them to keep same wages means that the relegated club will likely have to overhaul 80% of the team to stay in compliance - and those players are on multi year contracts, what do you do with them?
Is this going to be England only?
If yes then unless you set the cap exceptionally high (in which case what's the point) then all the best players will move abroad.
If no then you have to deal with currency fluctuations. One pound might be worth 1 Euro now but what about by the end of the year? If it is worth 1.2 Euros then one of the two leagues has to change it's salary cap by 20% for the following season. |
All valid points,
But I still think a salary cap would inevitably lead to the digital equivalent of lots of brown envelope payments.
As said above, limiting debt is a more interesting idea. You can spend what you like but you can only put x on the club's debt. Of course, this doesn't stop well-funded upstarts gatecrashing the incumbent big clubs' party. [Post edited 13 Jul 2020 19:20]
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| Man City dodge FFP on 16:05 - Jul 13 with 1033 views | Konk |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:41 - Jul 13 by BrianMcCarthy |
I'd like to help Konk, but I'm doing chin-ups for climate change.
I'm not saying climate change is a worthier cause. i would never say that. But they asked me first. Sorry man. |
We all need to examine our consciences and do what we think is right. For my part, I’ve cancelled our UNICEF Direct debit and sold my son’s bike. If you think the environment is more important than Man City being able to pay their players the London Living wage, then that’s your shout, mate. [Post edited 13 Jul 2020 16:18]
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| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 16:14 - Jul 13 with 1013 views | Konk |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:49 - Jul 13 by flynnbo |
Maybe we can set up a Gofundme page. |
Just done the walk. Six minutes there, eight on the way back because I bumped into a mate. Points West are doing a piece on it tonight for the local news. Absolutely shattered, but hopefully people will be inspired to put their hands in their pockets or raise money themselves. Give what you can - it could be your club next (suggested sponsorship donation £2,000 for the walk) | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 16:19 - Jul 13 with 992 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Man City dodge FFP on 16:14 - Jul 13 by Konk |
Just done the walk. Six minutes there, eight on the way back because I bumped into a mate. Points West are doing a piece on it tonight for the local news. Absolutely shattered, but hopefully people will be inspired to put their hands in their pockets or raise money themselves. Give what you can - it could be your club next (suggested sponsorship donation £2,000 for the walk) |
You've inspired me to do my bit for this worthy cause. I have arranged to hire a trumpet and will be performing Blue Moon in the manner of Le Pétomane to raise the money. I'll keep you informed so we don't over reach the total amount and have to waste it on another cause. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 16:45 - Jul 13 with 939 views | LythamR |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:19 - Jul 13 by joe90 |
How does that work?
Does excessive loss just become debt once the rich owner decides they want sell? Surely its not prudent to run at a loss?
Personally I think there needs to be a wage cap. |
it would work in exactly the way our owners currently fund QPR but instead of putting the money in against shares to cover a debt. the owners would be required to put the money in up front. I doubt it would be as tax efficient for the owners in the long run but it would protect the clubs to an extent
when they sign a player on a 3 year contract they put the money in to cover that contract up front, ringfenced so it cant be diverted, I bet the PFA would be interested in that idea
That might actually make owners and clubs think a bit more carefully about transfer fees and wages which would also be a good thing, |  | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 16:57 - Jul 13 with 919 views | Konk |
| Man City dodge FFP on 16:19 - Jul 13 by Esox_Lucius |
You've inspired me to do my bit for this worthy cause. I have arranged to hire a trumpet and will be performing Blue Moon in the manner of Le Pétomane to raise the money. I'll keep you informed so we don't over reach the total amount and have to waste it on another cause. |
Top Effort. I’ve not run it by Sheikh Mansour yet, but if we do exceed the target, I was thinking it might be nice to send Phil Foden to Disneyland or something? Either that or setup a trust fund to help out other State-owned football clubs facing catastrophic twenty quid fines over FFP issues. [Post edited 13 Jul 2020 16:58]
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| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 17:23 - Jul 13 with 870 views | peejaybee |
| Man City dodge FFP on 14:37 - Jul 13 by Konk |
I've just come off the phone to Sheikh Mansour, and I can tell you that he is in pieces. £10m quid. How the fu ck is he supposed to find that sort of money? He doesn't know which way to turn - he's had to tell the kids they won't be going on holiday this year. Can you imagine? His little lad, bucket and spade in hand, tears rolling down his face. His wife's been down the pawn shop, getting £60 for her engagement ring and the kids' Nintendo. So far, he's cobbled together just over £400. I told him to calm down, speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau - organise instalments or something - maybe pay it off £5 a week, but he can't see a way out of this. He's already working in a bookies at the weekend and driving a minicab in the evenings to top-up what he earns from ruling Abu Dhabi. And the timing couldn't be any worse because his washing machine's just packed up too.
Without help from the wider football community, there's a real chance that Man City could be the next Bury. I've set myself the target of raising £10,000,500 to help Sheikh Mansour pay the fine, get the kids' Nintendo back, replace the washing machine and send his kids to Clacton for a few days. If you'd like to help a good cause then please sponsor me and forward the link to everyone you have ever met. I will be walking from my home in Ashton to Ashton Gate football ground and then home again.
Aside from my efforts, Kevin De Bruyne, David Silva and Raheem Sterling have organised a cake sale, Phil Foden's washing all the cars on his Mum and Dad's cul-de-sac, and Keith Curle is doing face painting, so everyone is doing their bit. Don't just stand by a watch UEFA kill a proud old club. Donate today. |
Superb,Why are you not on the telly you are a lot funnier than Mrs Brown.  |  |
| If at first you dont succeed, pack up and f**k off home. |
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| Man City dodge FFP on 17:56 - Jul 13 with 831 views | daveB |
| Man City dodge FFP on 15:00 - Jul 13 by joe90 |
My conclusion isn't wrong, but perhaps not worded properly.
In my conclusion I'm referring to the charge against them - that being the alleged FFP breach. This is separate to the fine they've received for not co-operating with the investigation, which was reduced to 10m.
I think we do want to know why the charges for the alleged FFP breach was dropped. [Post edited 13 Jul 2020 15:06]
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There was not enough evidence to prove they did it |  | | |
| Man City dodge FFP on 18:10 - Jul 13 with 816 views | kernowhoop |
| Man City dodge FFP on 10:05 - Jul 13 by DannyPaddox |
A City mate explained to me over the weekend it was nailed on the ban would be overturned and this will eventually lead to the unravelling of FFP rules. I wondered if there could be any future implications for our situation in light of retrospective laws being diminished. Mind you my first thought on Ghislaine Maxwell’s arrest was could this somehow lead to Oxford United being stripped of their 1986 Milk Cup Final win and the trophy being given to the runners-up - whoever they were. |
I didn't think that the final was played that year?
Maybe the 'best' semi-finalist could get the cup? | | | |
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