Forum | England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread by BazzaInTheLoft

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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread 13:04 - Jul 10 with 36389 views

I think I’ve been quite lucky so far no?

Well managed England play will defeat the Italians by the odd goal.

Here’s me putting the gauntlet down:

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 14:42 - Jul 13 with 1222 views

CLAREMAN1995

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 10:20 - Jul 13 by TheChef
Well yes absolutely we needed a second goal, and then of course Italy grew into the game and increased the pressure. Mancini made the changes and unfortunately Southgate did not - I'd have kept Rice on and brought Grealish on earlier. Always easier to say in hindsight though.

Great post TheChef I thought Mount should have been replaced by Grealish at half and leave Rice on he was having a superb game .
Also I would have replaced Sterling with Rashford before extra time not just to get him warmed up for the shootout but to expose the 2 Italian veterans both already booked so they could not tackle him .
I have watched Rashford take multiple penalties for Utd and he never took anywhere as long in his run up as Sunday it was way too long I think he was not fully committed myself .
Disgusted to hear about the violence ,mugging and intimidation inside Wembley no place for that shame on those thugs

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 14:59 - Jul 13 with 1169 views

SheffieldHoop

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 13:21 - Jul 13 by Konk

All fair and interesting points. Couldn't the platform have a blanket ban on use of the N word, for instance? My point on whether it's some pis sed-up (or sober) 17 year old sending messages, is that I would be very, very reluctant to bang someone up for that. Same as I would for various other crimes that young lads get sent down for. I'm happy to fine the fu ck out of them, or just waste their time by having them report into a police station every day for a year or something. I think we've gone off on a tangent here given we're now discussing sentencing policy on the England v Italy thread! Sorry, everyone else.

On registration: Fulham had an excellent message board for years, but there was no registration (still isn't) and moderation was a bit of a best endeavours effort. Loads and loads of racist, anti-semitic, Islamophobic, and homophobic filth, because no-one ever got banned. Went from being a very funny, interesting, busy forum, to now seemingly having about 20 users max, and still has racist sh it on it from time to time. Registration would have saved it or at least made the mods job easier.

I can't believe this bloke is suggesting twitter decides whether black people are allowed to say the N-word or not

Sure, banning it works for you, no problems for you if it's banned, prevents other white people using it, which always brings stick on white people. Sounds good. Blanket ban for everyone then.

Black people will not be told which words they can and cannot use by Jack Dorsey, or any other white person. I dunno how you could even come out with that. Suggests you're out of touch IMO.

[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 15:00]

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 15:15 - Jul 13 with 1128 views

PhilmyRs

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 13:53 - Jul 13 by daveB

He could have done that with Rice, not sure if he had a knock or something, wasn't really against that.

Henderson has missed the only 2 penalties he's taken so not sure he was a better option.

For the penalties you can drive yourself mad with the line up, when you look at the 6 who didn't take one I'm not sure I fancied any of them above the 5 who took them. If he had his time again I'm sure he'd change the order but the 2 shoot outs he's won both times was not an obvious 5 other than kane & Rashford that he went with.

RE penalties, from a guy that's got the full experience of the pain of losing and being the one responsible, I wonder if that impacted his approach?

I'm a bit old school in that I always think whoever fancies one on the night should be trusted to step up. I fully agree with practicing Pens as part of that but I still think there's something in trusting a player, often one that's had a stormer of game, stepping up if he feels confident.

Reports suggest the Manager had his preferred list and that's what we went with. Could that approach have been influenced by Euro 96? Venabales looking around while Ince and others just looked down not wanting it, then asks Gareth and despite being illequipped to do it his sense of duty made him say yes? Using his approach he has the guys he wants, and it's a much harder thing for them to say NO when asked as opposed to looking at the floor and not putting your hand up in the first place.

We'll never know, but it would have been interesting to see a "whose feeling confident for a Pen"? - I still think Sancho and Rashford would of been up for it which is great to see, I just think for young Saka, he may of understandably kept his head down.

[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 15:17]

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 15:23 - Jul 13 with 1105 views

BazzeR

For me it’s immaterial who missed the pens,would have much preferred to win or lose in game time.

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 15:48 - Jul 13 with 1045 views

Konk

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 14:59 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop

[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 15:00]

FFS, Are you the most needlessly argumentative bloke in the world or what?! I'm not actually deciding social media policy, I haven't been campaigning for this for 18 months; I've given it two minutes thought in response to you pointing out how impossible things are to monitor/police with so much to take into account in terms of context/who's posting etc. And I'm not saying Twitter gets to say what words black people (or any people) use - I'm saying Twitter is their fu cking platform, so they have some control over what's permitted. Same as they can ban any cu nt they want. Same as Clive would be in his rights to ban any word he wanted on this forum because it's his site.

Seeing as my brainstorming suggestion was so insultingly sh it and offensive, and you're clearly Mr ITK on all matters related to race, what would you suggest? Suck it up? Black footballers come off social media? Jail people?

Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:19 - Jul 13 with 973 views

daveB

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 15:15 - Jul 13 by PhilmyRs

[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 15:17]

It looked like he asked everyone who wanted to take one and then decided the order they were taking them in. Hard to tell but as he went to each player in the huddle they all seemed to nod and say yes I'll take one then he spoke to Steve Holland before going upto players saying your 1st, your 2nd etc
Looked like Pickford, Phillips and Grealish were the next 3 if it had gone that far but thats just me amateur lip reading

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:22 - Jul 13 with 963 views

SheffieldHoop

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 15:48 - Jul 13 by Konk

Ignore it. As I've said on here for months now. That's all you can do. Internet anonymity trumps anybody's right to not be offended.

All this boils down to is rich people saying "I demand the personal information of the person who called me a tw at"

It's pathetic. Millionaire footballers worried about DM's from people in India. Highly-paid Journalists worrying about some guy who lost a bet in Oman. Frontpage news. We're all supposed to care. Because someone called someone a name. From the other side of the world. On the internet. Oh and the insinuation that if the abuse doesn't stop, suicides will be the consequence. I mean, what the actual F. Highly-paid footballers, won the lottery of life, resilience at all-time lows.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac

Read the report the government commissioned, which was attacked by the left and those involved in writing it called all sorts of nasty and disgusting things. It makes it quite clear where the majority of online abuse is coming from. Is the left interested in this new information about the problem they're apparently so eager to solve? Absolutely not.

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:22 - Jul 13 with 967 views

denhamhoop2

To Pinner as our resident ref when there is a penalty shoot out do you have to inform the ref of the 5 takers or could you change it as you go along

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:23 - Jul 13 with 958 views

daveB

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 14:59 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop

[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 15:00]

I'm gonna regret getting involved here but twitter currently has a block on certain phrases. On Sunday night I saw a few Danny Baker tweets which i thought were ridiculous and in a rage replied feck off to him, as i pressed send I got a message saying this phrase can be seen as abuse are you sure you want to send this. I had a second thought and just deleted it as it was a bit daft and ultimately pointless. They could easily do the same with the N word including various spellings of it which people use to get around it. This may well be in place already but it's not something I particularly want to test

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:28 - Jul 13 with 941 views

BrianMcCarthy

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:22 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop

"It's pathetic. Millionaire footballers worried about DM's from people in India....Oh and the insinuation that if the abuse doesn't stop, suicides will be the consequence. I mean, what the actual F. Highly-paid footballers, won the lottery of life, resilience at all-time lows."

Even if footballers were magically protected from suicide, and Justin Fashnu's life and death tell us that they're not, discriminatory abuse is just wrong. Incredibly, and viciously wrong.

	"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll:	Player of the Year (so far)

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:32 - Jul 13 with 920 views

SheffieldHoop

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:23 - Jul 13 by daveB

Yeah this is why young people now use completely illegible phrases like "yt pipo" to actually say "White people" and stuff like that. It's not really new. Bit like Instagram filtering messages from accounts you don't follow isn't new.

But it's still a problem because people go looking for stuff.

What next? Emoji no longer allowed to use Monkey or Banana iconography? In case it gets used in a racist way? Isn't this a bit ridiculous?

[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 16:41]

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:35 - Jul 13 with 909 views

SheffieldHoop

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:28 - Jul 13 by BrianMcCarthy

I agree

But I don't agree that you can reasonably stop it, not without seriously infringing on other peoples freedom

Justin Fashnu was all before I was born, so nothing to do with social media then.

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:42 - Jul 13 with 878 views

BrianMcCarthy

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:35 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop
I agree But I don't agree that you can reasonably stop it, not without seriously infringing on other peoples freedom Justin Fashnu was all before I was born, so nothing to do with social media then.

But Justin Fashnu's life and death show your premise that somehow rich footballers are immune from suicide to be false. They're youngsters, facing vicious abuse, they've no idea whether the abuser lives 100 yards away or halfway around the world. Even if they did know, it's still completely wrong. And should be tackled for that very reason alone.

DaveB has just shown that certain words can be blocked, so measures can be taken.
Legislation can be brought in - trust the Legal system to enforce it fairly.
But saying that rich footballers should somehow accept vicious abuse is cold, unusual and dangerous.

	"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll:	Player of the Year (so far)

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:43 - Jul 13 with 875 views

BazzaInTheLoft

It’s not in the interests of Social Media to add restrictions of any kind.

They justify non intervention under the banner of the Libertarian view on free speech.

In reality, like most Libertarians, it’s because even racists provide exposure and therefore data, better informed algorithms, and therefore more advertising income.

It’s not really about fears about restrictions of freedoms it’s more about fears about restrictions of capital.

Twitter made $4 billion dollars last year.

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:45 - Jul 13 with 856 views

80s_Boy

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:42 - Jul 13 by BrianMcCarthy

Depression doesn't look at bank balances before it chooses its victims...

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:49 - Jul 13 with 837 views

PhilmyRs

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:19 - Jul 13 by daveB

Perhaps that was the approach so slightly different but if your Manager, in front of all your teammates asks whether you'd take a pen, you're not going to say No are you, even if you hate the idea and don't think you have it in you. Asking the group who fancies a pen and gaging responses/whose up for it is pretty old school and isn't perfect but I just get the feeling a Grealish or even the keeper would have fancied a bit of the action, Pickford particularly that night was enjoying the occassion and the more nervous players (e.g. Saka) could have taken a step back. Saka definitely shouldn't have been on the final pen.

All what ifs though. Maybe in a week or two I'll have moved on.

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:50 - Jul 13 with 828 views

SheffieldHoop

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 15:48 - Jul 13 by Konk

And by the way, I don't usually go around claiming to be ITK on matters of race, but in the context of this message board (which I understand is mostly white blokes in their 60s) - I will.

I've lived and gone to school in the Caribbean, my Mrs is from the Caribbean, my best mate plays football internationally for Antigua.

I don't post much about QPR because, honestly, a lot of people on here know more about it and follow it more closely than I do.

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:52 - Jul 13 with 818 views

SheffieldHoop

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:42 - Jul 13 by BrianMcCarthy

Well in that case
Whenever a thread on here pops up about Michael Gove
I expect you'll be the first the report any abuse
Obvious double standards here Brian.

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:53 - Jul 13 with 814 views

SheffieldHoop

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:45 - Jul 13 by 80s_Boy
Depression doesn't look at bank balances before it chooses its victims...

If a modern-day footballer is not in a position to get help for depression, or literally any other problem they might have, then I don't know who is.

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:56 - Jul 13 with 802 views

80s_Boy

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:43 - Jul 13 by BazzaInTheLoft

They should be promoting free speech. Its something which every person in the World should be granted.

That free speech includes the right to express any opinion, however, and that means that those abusing black players at the moment only have to switch from sending idiotic emojis and racial insults to just saying 'I don't like x because he is black', 'I already hate x because he is black and I hate him more now' or 'I hate all black people' and you've strayed into an area which is very, very grey because they may have expressed repulsive opinions but they have stayed within the law of what can or cannot be said.

Just because there is currently a huge backlash against Social Media platforms it doesn't mean that it will tackle racism or prevent people from being exposed to it.

The problem then becomes 'what next?'.

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:58 - Jul 13 with 795 views

BrianMcCarthy

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:52 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop
Well in that case Whenever a thread on here pops up about Michael Gove I expect you'll be the first the report any abuse Obvious double standards here Brian.

Not double standards at all, Sheffield. I think you know me well enough at this stage to know I would oppose all abuse, regardless of its victim.

Incidentally, I have nothing against Michael Gove. Don't know why you think I would have.

	"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll:	Player of the Year (so far)

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:58 - Jul 13 with 795 views

80s_Boy

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:53 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop
If a modern-day footballer is not in a position to get help for depression, or literally any other problem they might have, then I don't know who is.

The problem with that theory is that us men have a bit of a problem with Macho bullshit and don't always admit when there is a problem.

I had issues about 4-5 years ago and the only way my wife found out was when she collected me from the back of an ambulance after a massive panic attack brought about through stress....

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 17:00 - Jul 13 with 782 views

SheffieldHoop

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:58 - Jul 13 by BrianMcCarthy
Not double standards at all, Sheffield. I think you know me well enough at this stage to know I would oppose all abuse, regardless of its victim. Incidentally, I have nothing against Michael Gove. Don't know why you think I would have.

Can't recall you sticking up for him the last time his name was being trashed on here, but perhaps you did. Sorry if I am mistaken.

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 17:00 - Jul 13 with 783 views

BrianMcCarthy

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 16:58 - Jul 13 by 80s_Boy
The problem with that theory is that us men have a bit of a problem with Macho bullshit and don't always admit when there is a problem. I had issues about 4-5 years ago and the only way my wife found out was when she collected me from the back of an ambulance after a massive panic attack brought about through stress....

Hope you're ok now, 80s_Boy.

That's it from me, I'm out. Have a good evening folks.

	"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll:	Player of the Year (so far)

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 17:02 - Jul 13 with 769 views

80s_Boy

England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡¹ Match Thread on 17:00 - Jul 13 by BrianMcCarthy
Hope you're ok now, 80s_Boy. That's it from me, I'm out. Have a good evening folks.

I am, thank you.

Got the help I needed and am a better person for it.

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