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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:06 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop
This message board works because it's a niche interest message board. It could quite easily not work, but the common interest of QPR, and a deep-rooted respect for Northern, I think just about keeps us from making this place a complete warzone.
Who gets to use "pissed up and angry" as a defence? 17 year olds? Or just the people engaging in rabid antisemitism? Because that's how it currently seems to work.
There's just so much to thrash out on this. It might seem simple when you only think of the law applying to you, but how for example do the police/twitter monitor black people using the N word? What about mixed race people? Does someone who has a white grandparent get to use the word, but someone with a white parent not?
Does the context in which they use it matter?
Just not realistic to police speech in this way
All fair and interesting points. Couldn't the platform have a blanket ban on use of the N word, for instance? My point on whether it's some pis sed-up (or sober) 17 year old sending messages, is that I would be very, very reluctant to bang someone up for that. Same as I would for various other crimes that young lads get sent down for. I'm happy to fine the fu ck out of them, or just waste their time by having them report into a police station every day for a year or something. I think we've gone off on a tangent here given we're now discussing sentencing policy on the England v Italy thread! Sorry, everyone else.
On registration: Fulham had an excellent message board for years, but there was no registration (still isn't) and moderation was a bit of a best endeavours effort. Loads and loads of racist, anti-semitic, Islamophobic, and homophobic filth, because no-one ever got banned. Went from being a very funny, interesting, busy forum, to now seemingly having about 20 users max, and still has racist sh it on it from time to time. Registration would have saved it or at least made the mods job easier.
Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:24 - Jul 13 with 1005 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:12 - Jul 13 by traininvain
Whilst I don’t think Saka was the best option for the 5th pen, it would be remiss not to point out that Henderson was the only England player to miss a pen vs Colombia at the 2018 World Cup.
So I can see the logic behind subbing Henderson before the shoutout. The head scratcher for me is having three youngsters taking pens in succession as one miss (Rashford) and the pressure on the next two is amplified. I would have liked to see a Grealish or Sterling in between them.
But ultimately, if Rashford scores we probably go on to win the shootout and everyone praises Southgate for the subs. But obviously the opposite happened. It’s such fine margins.
I agree it's the finest of fine margins. IMO if that game is played 10 times then it's 5-5. But when it is fine margins why do we generally ending up on the losing side. As I've said previously I like Southgate and respect him but no one can convince me that penalty shootout wasn't anything other than terrible management.
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:28 - Jul 13 with 977 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:21 - Jul 13 by Konk
All fair and interesting points. Couldn't the platform have a blanket ban on use of the N word, for instance? My point on whether it's some pis sed-up (or sober) 17 year old sending messages, is that I would be very, very reluctant to bang someone up for that. Same as I would for various other crimes that young lads get sent down for. I'm happy to fine the fu ck out of them, or just waste their time by having them report into a police station every day for a year or something. I think we've gone off on a tangent here given we're now discussing sentencing policy on the England v Italy thread! Sorry, everyone else.
On registration: Fulham had an excellent message board for years, but there was no registration (still isn't) and moderation was a bit of a best endeavours effort. Loads and loads of racist, anti-semitic, Islamophobic, and homophobic filth, because no-one ever got banned. Went from being a very funny, interesting, busy forum, to now seemingly having about 20 users max, and still has racist sh it on it from time to time. Registration would have saved it or at least made the mods job easier.
They haven't even blocked the word 'Holohoax' on Twitter despite Holocaust denial being against the law in most European countries....
Call me cynical, but part of me suspects this media attention isn't as bad to Social Media companies as some believe.
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:32 - Jul 13 with 964 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 12:58 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop
Some of us have hobbies outside of QPR, sorry.
Not sure about to respond to the second part because it's come from Narnia
Apology accepted. The first bit was tongue in cheek, we all have other hobbies of course but it did get me to thinking about who I know who doesn't like football. Most of my friends all support a club with various degrees of engagement. The second bit, he exists, he's out there, he prefers superbikes and he doesn't fit your mold, what can I say?
I'm a proud Englishman, it's the country that brought the world Isaac Newton, Stephen Hawking, Charles Darwin, Alan Turing, Tim Berners-Lee etc. Just because I'm proud to be English it doesn't mean I have to defend the actions of my fellow countrymen when they behave like idiots storming into Wembley or generally acting up over football. We're all upset, they don't have to lash out to prove they're upset or more upset than the rest of us!
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:37 - Jul 13 with 943 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:28 - Jul 13 by 80s_Boy
They haven't even blocked the word 'Holohoax' on Twitter despite Holocaust denial being against the law in most European countries....
Call me cynical, but part of me suspects this media attention isn't as bad to Social Media companies as some believe.
Does anyone know how many accounts sent malicious messages? It's horrific but I'm getting pelters here from Aussies. The media are making out like it's half the population sending hate.
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:42 - Jul 13 with 921 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:37 - Jul 13 by ozexile
Does anyone know how many accounts sent malicious messages? It's horrific but I'm getting pelters here from Aussies. The media are making out like it's half the population sending hate.
No precise figures but everyone seems to be sharing the same 4-5 pages and no evidence, yet, of their global location.
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:51 - Jul 13 with 862 views
For what it's worth Krept & Konan got chosen to make the official England anthem for 2020 Which I approve of I quite like them and it's a good tune, albeit a bit basic
But anyway It features the lyric "Before music it was Harry and Kane My young G put on the bally and came On the attack like Danny and James Don't need no practice, shoot like Rashford Grab it and aim"
This is part of my problem with the noise around racism. Around my area, I'm far more worried about a little shit in a balaclava carrying a rambo knife than I am about knuckle-dragging racists. And yet we're reminded to watch out for knuckle-dragging racists. Constantly. And not be too concerned about the kids with the big scary knives.
And before anyone tries to link this to race, it's not race, it's culture.
The fact is the culture of racism has never been further from the mainstream (Well, apart from when they make a few online trolls headline news) The problems with mainstream culture neither start nor end at racism But if you dare highlight any of these problems, you're probably just being racist.
Anyway back on topic and re: the jibbers at Wembley The art of the jib is a staple working-class power play. How about those people trying to stop them from getting in? Private citizen arrests all over the place Hope they don't try and stop me jibbing the qualifiers. It's the only way I can get in away from home.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:53 - Jul 13 with 874 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 12:56 - Jul 13 by ozexile
But why can't we go 4-3-3 with Rice. The experience he bought on couldn't be that great cause he wasted a sub by subbing him off? And why's the Liverpool captain not staying on for pens? I'm not trying to be divisive but surely with his experience he's a better option than a 19 year old who's never taken one.
He could have done that with Rice, not sure if he had a knock or something, wasn't really against that.
Henderson has missed the only 2 penalties he's taken so not sure he was a better option.
For the penalties you can drive yourself mad with the line up, when you look at the 6 who didn't take one I'm not sure I fancied any of them above the 5 who took them. If he had his time again I'm sure he'd change the order but the 2 shoot outs he's won both times was not an obvious 5 other than kane & Rashford that he went with.
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:24 - Jul 13 by ozexile
I agree it's the finest of fine margins. IMO if that game is played 10 times then it's 5-5. But when it is fine margins why do we generally ending up on the losing side. As I've said previously I like Southgate and respect him but no one can convince me that penalty shootout wasn't anything other than terrible management.
Or the 2nd half of the match either.He stubbornly refused to change it even though we were getting pegged back by the Italians,and couldn’t keep hold to the ball anymore. A change in formation while we were still winning,might have made the difference.But he was the manager who got us there ,so I can’t really knock him.It’s just a shame that it ended like that.
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:56 - Jul 13 with 867 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:32 - Jul 13 by QPR_Jim
Apology accepted. The first bit was tongue in cheek, we all have other hobbies of course but it did get me to thinking about who I know who doesn't like football. Most of my friends all support a club with various degrees of engagement. The second bit, he exists, he's out there, he prefers superbikes and he doesn't fit your mold, what can I say?
I'm a proud Englishman, it's the country that brought the world Isaac Newton, Stephen Hawking, Charles Darwin, Alan Turing, Tim Berners-Lee etc. Just because I'm proud to be English it doesn't mean I have to defend the actions of my fellow countrymen when they behave like idiots storming into Wembley or generally acting up over football. We're all upset, they don't have to lash out to prove they're upset or more upset than the rest of us!
Yeh also motorbikes and do find petrol heads have a particular disdain for football/a lot of ball games. Same all over the world.
I always argue that if football was played in leathers, they'd never need to go down and it would be more like rugby. The whole point of football is, it isn't rugby.
To them, if you can't die instantly, it's barely a sport. Having done some football and some racing myself I much prefer football from a fan attendance/cultural perspective, but racing is a lot more fun to do.
Anyway, left-wing petrol heads Worse than the others by a factor of 1 billion.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 13:58 - Jul 13 with 844 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 12:15 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop
Well, that's how I view leftists because that's what mosts leftists I know are like. Most leftists I know aren't at all into football. So the opportunity to stick the boot into England, and more specifically English football, and even more specifically than that, the tired narrative about English football yobs, is met with glee.
So accept your position as a unicorn Lefty. Accept that most of your comrades cannot stand you or I, as football fans. They cannot stand our country. And would much prefer to be European.
But this whole thing painting English football fans as racist because of a handful of tweets which by the sounds of it have mostly come from the middle east, is just out of order even by leftist standards, surely ?
This is a load of crap. You can't divide those who like football and those who don't by what they vote. And remember that your sample of people you know is not going to be representative. Of all the people I know, only two of them voted for Brexit; people you know are not going to represent the wider society.
It's not patriotic to be a Tory. Any more than it's patriotic to be left wing. The far right have hijacked the symbols of patriotism, like the Union Flag and the national anthem, but it doesn't mean that they're any prouder of their country.
I don't know how you conclude that booing someone else's national anthem makes you more patriotic. It really, really doesn't.
Nor does saying you don't like yobbish behaviour make you unpatriotic. Just because it's some of the people who are supporting our national team who are being yobbish, it doesn't mean that they're representing us. So we can slag them off all we like, and it doesn't make us unpatriotic!
My Britain is not the Britain of yobs and booing. My Britain is the Britain of Alexander Fleming, John Logie Baird, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Tim Berners Lee, William Wilberforce, Jane Austen, Emmeline Pankhurst. People who actually stood for something and wanted to build things, not tear them down. I'm proud of them, and I'm proud of Southgate, Sterling, Saka, Kane and Rashford who wanted to achieve for us. They deserve better than people who go to football to kick someone in the corridors outside or boo their opponents.
It's also the Britain of the ordinary people who run charities for no money and volunteer their time. Who run football teams for kids, scouts and brownies for young people. There are tons of things to be proud of about your country that don't involve football violence or booing.
I'm what you'd probably call, as an insult, a leftie. Because I believe in social justice. I believe that people shouldn't shirk their responsibilities to others less fortunate than themselves. I also believe we need services and industries and to support them.
I also love football. I spend an inordinate amount of time on here, having been going to QPR since 1992, and have two play off finals to show for it. I'm even going to pre-season friendlies, so don't tell me I can't be patriotic, left wing leaning and a football fan. And I know lots of people like me, so we're not unicorns.
[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 14:09]
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 14:10 - Jul 13 with 811 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 14:05 - Jul 13 by nix
This is a load of crap. You can't divide those who like football and those who don't by what they vote. And remember that your sample of people you know is not going to be representative. Of all the people I know, only two of them voted for Brexit; people you know are not going to represent the wider society.
It's not patriotic to be a Tory. Any more than it's patriotic to be left wing. The far right have hijacked the symbols of patriotism, like the Union Flag and the national anthem, but it doesn't mean that they're any prouder of their country.
I don't know how you conclude that booing someone else's national anthem makes you more patriotic. It really, really doesn't.
Nor does saying you don't like yobbish behaviour make you unpatriotic. Just because it's some of the people who are supporting our national team who are being yobbish, it doesn't mean that they're representing us. So we can slag them off all we like, and it doesn't make us unpatriotic!
My Britain is not the Britain of yobs and booing. My Britain is the Britain of Alexander Fleming, John Logie Baird, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Tim Berners Lee, William Wilberforce, Jane Austen, Emmeline Pankhurst. People who actually stood for something and wanted to build things, not tear them down. I'm proud of them, and I'm proud of Southgate, Sterling, Saka, Kane and Rashford who wanted to achieve for us. They deserve better than people who go to football to kick someone in the corridors outside or boo their opponents.
It's also the Britain of the ordinary people who run charities for no money and volunteer their time. Who run football teams for kids, scouts and brownies for young people. There are tons of things to be proud of about your country that don't involve football violence or booing.
I'm what you'd probably call, as an insult, a leftie. Because I believe in social justice. I believe that people shouldn't shirk their responsibilities to others less fortunate than themselves. I also believe we need services and industries and to support them.
I also love football. I spend an inordinate amount of time on here, having been going to QPR since 1992, and have two play off finals to show for it. I'm even going to pre-season friendlies, so don't tell me I can't be patriotic, left wing leaning and a football fan. And I know lots of people like me, so we're not unicorns.
[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 14:09]
Lost me at "I don't know how you conclude that booing someone else's national anthem makes you more patriotic. It really, really doesn't."
Where did I conclude this ?
[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 14:11]
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 14:12 - Jul 13 with 806 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 14:12 - Jul 13 by BazzaInTheLoft
Your mate is a bit of a character isn't he Norf.
Oh I don't know that Norf would consider me a mate, I'm very much a hanger-on when it comes to the LFW crew.
He just knew me from when I was 14 and managing to attend QPR home and away from one of the most neglected parts of Sheffield.
Do recall him once saying that he thought either Bazza or Gazza were a troll on this forum. Can't remember which. But then I vaguely remember meeting Gazza at Swansea once mid week. So maybe it was you.
[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 14:26]
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 14:23 - Jul 13 with 761 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 14:17 - Jul 13 by SheffieldHoop
Oh I don't know that Norf would consider me a mate, I'm very much a hanger-on when it comes to the LFW crew.
He just knew me from when I was 14 and managing to attend QPR home and away from one of the most neglected parts of Sheffield.
Do recall him once saying that he thought either Bazza or Gazza were a troll on this forum. Can't remember which. But then I vaguely remember meeting Gazza at Swansea once mid week. So maybe it was you.
[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 14:26]
Just too tempting!
[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 14:25]
Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts
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England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 14:25 - Jul 13 with 743 views
England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v Italy 🇮🇹 Match Thread on 14:05 - Jul 13 by nix
This is a load of crap. You can't divide those who like football and those who don't by what they vote. And remember that your sample of people you know is not going to be representative. Of all the people I know, only two of them voted for Brexit; people you know are not going to represent the wider society.
It's not patriotic to be a Tory. Any more than it's patriotic to be left wing. The far right have hijacked the symbols of patriotism, like the Union Flag and the national anthem, but it doesn't mean that they're any prouder of their country.
I don't know how you conclude that booing someone else's national anthem makes you more patriotic. It really, really doesn't.
Nor does saying you don't like yobbish behaviour make you unpatriotic. Just because it's some of the people who are supporting our national team who are being yobbish, it doesn't mean that they're representing us. So we can slag them off all we like, and it doesn't make us unpatriotic!
My Britain is not the Britain of yobs and booing. My Britain is the Britain of Alexander Fleming, John Logie Baird, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Tim Berners Lee, William Wilberforce, Jane Austen, Emmeline Pankhurst. People who actually stood for something and wanted to build things, not tear them down. I'm proud of them, and I'm proud of Southgate, Sterling, Saka, Kane and Rashford who wanted to achieve for us. They deserve better than people who go to football to kick someone in the corridors outside or boo their opponents.
It's also the Britain of the ordinary people who run charities for no money and volunteer their time. Who run football teams for kids, scouts and brownies for young people. There are tons of things to be proud of about your country that don't involve football violence or booing.
I'm what you'd probably call, as an insult, a leftie. Because I believe in social justice. I believe that people shouldn't shirk their responsibilities to others less fortunate than themselves. I also believe we need services and industries and to support them.
I also love football. I spend an inordinate amount of time on here, having been going to QPR since 1992, and have two play off finals to show for it. I'm even going to pre-season friendlies, so don't tell me I can't be patriotic, left wing leaning and a football fan. And I know lots of people like me, so we're not unicorns.
[Post edited 13 Jul 2021 14:09]
Excellent post Nix. I am Irish so would not presume to judge English people on the authenticity of their 'Englishness'. But I totally agree that it is too easy to stereotype and label people based on religious or political beliefs. I had an amusing but thought-provoking incident, just at this time of year, back in the late 80's. My then girlfriend (now wife) and I were on a few day's break in Scotland and it was in the immediate aftermath of July 12th, which thankfully is a lot less troublesome today than then. Anyway, her brother was getting married a couple of weeks later and we thought it would be a good idea to buy my suit while we were away. We were in Kilmarnock and I had picked out a nice grey suit and we were just adding in the shirt and tie. While getting fitted, we chatted away about being on holiday from the South of Ireland blah blah blah. The shop owner send a young assistant off to pick out a suitable shirt for my suit. To her absolute horor he came back with an ORANGE one. She was mortified and was profuse in her apologies and hoped I didn't feel insulted. I wasn't insulted at all (it was a really nice shirt and complemented the grey in the suit perfectly) But she flatly refused to sell it to me and gave the poor young assistant hell over it. Notwithstanding the fact that the situation in Northern Ireland was much more politically charged than today, it was a classic example of me being labelled incorrectly simply by virtue of my geographical location.
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