| Just back 22:17 - Jan 25 with 6821 views | BlackCrowe |
Well that was a damp squib. We lacked any intensity until the last 10 minutes. Swansea were quite similar in style to us without much threat up front, played from the back, high line, etc.
So many fouls, the game never got going and the ref didn't really have a grip on it and missed a couple of howlers.
But it shows where we are that a 0-0 almost feels like a loss. I said yesterday that i would be delighted with 4 points from today and next Saturday so on we go to the weekend. You Rs. |  |
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| Just back on 18:24 - Jan 26 with 1236 views | PinnerPaul |
| Just back on 18:02 - Jan 26 by nix |
I'm not saying you're wrong Pinner, after all I'm not a ref, but I do see it differently to you and Clive.
I think if you give an early card, you're LESS likely to see the continuing fouls that lead to people getting irate and ending up with frustration and handbags, as in last night and the Bournemouth game, after all you're not getting penalised apart from a free kick, in which you're less likely to be exposed than when someone's threatening to break through your lines. Obviously only for bad or cynical fouls or, as in last night, persistent fouling of the same player. I think you've said before that you can book someone if a team is operating a rotating foul policy on one player, and not just if it's the same player always fouling a particular opponent.
He didn't book anyone until 29 minutes in, so that's quite a lot of fouls later, largely targeting our players with pace/incisiveness in Willock and Odubajo. [Post edited 26 Jan 2022 18:05]
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Fair comments as usual.
Its just that the man that dare not speak his name often goes for the early card and its not often that successful in calming a game down!
I think the modern footballer is pretty adept at avoiding the old 2 yellow card trick, it doesn't happen that often, so I'm not at all sure just dishing out an early yellow would have the desired effect.
Each game is different though, so I accept it might well work in some games. |  | | |
| Just back on 19:01 - Jan 26 with 1186 views | westberksr |
| Just back on 18:24 - Jan 26 by PinnerPaul |
Fair comments as usual.
Its just that the man that dare not speak his name often goes for the early card and its not often that successful in calming a game down!
I think the modern footballer is pretty adept at avoiding the old 2 yellow card trick, it doesn't happen that often, so I'm not at all sure just dishing out an early yellow would have the desired effect.
Each game is different though, so I accept it might well work in some games. |
I think refs have a hard job but need to distinguish between honest endeavours that are possibly miss timed or down to over exuberance and the type of planned cynical gamesmanship we saw last night.
I might be a mile off but would hope that the refs discuss and communicate this type of stuff to each other. Although presumably not as Willock is getting kicked to sh it every match as players take turn with the fouling 'stick' to prevent getting booked.
you'd think they might have things like cameras and highlights to refer to and could have a little whatsapp group to pass notes to each other! (kidding about the whatsappp, but you get the idea) |  | | |
| Just back on 19:10 - Jan 26 with 1183 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Just back on 15:47 - Jan 26 by PinnerPaul |
Interesting to hear the 'TV viewpoint' as well.
Live it just seemed to me that similar challenges were treated differently and there was a gap between some fouls and the whistle, obviously! I realise, especially at this level, that referees are always looking to play advantage so will often whistle 'late'
It was a difficult game in the sense that if he penalised every little pull and tug and started handing out the yellows a little more, would have been a poor game to watch and we would have had a lot more yellows, which, like Clive I don't like to see. |
Cheers, yeah he did whistle late a few times. Totally possible in my covid state with the tv on quietly i just couldn't get riled up about it!
Agree with you too about early cards, but every foul is different - let them get away with a marginal one is fine, but a nasty tackle should be punished correctly whether minute 1 or 90. |  |
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| Just back on 19:43 - Jan 26 with 1144 views | francisbowles |
| Just back on 10:03 - Jan 26 by Blue_Castello |
Exactly he was loaned out by McLaren or Holloway I can't remember exactly but somebody will , that's no fault of Warburtons and Warbs picked him regularly making him an integral part of the team. He was really good at the attacking element of his game and would have slotted into the left wing back role giving us more pace in that area and his crossing was excellent.
At the end of his contract another one was put on the table but he turned it down, who knows exactly why maybe he was still holding a grudge for being loaned out. The fans used to sing his name as he was "one of our own" , ok we purchased him from Ireland but it felt like a product of the youth recruitment process and for some reason maybe it was just more money he felt he couldn't stay with the club who gave him his big chance..... |
Can't agree with pace, certainly not when facing his own goal. | | | |
| Just back on 11:07 - Jan 27 with 1036 views | Rangers67 |
As much as I appreciate anyone volunteering to be be a ref and all the baggage that goes with it I feel the standard of refereeing is by and large pretty poor in the championship. There is a balance to be struck here between the guys who go out on a Saturday and Sunday and the ref at the local rec and the guys who are paid professionals who we have to by and large endure at the KPFS. One of the key questions is how much advice or guidance do the pro refs get on the basics like shirt pulling, diving, wrestling each other in the penalty box etc. The thing about the other night against Swansea for me is it was obvious that from fairly early on they were targeting a couple of our players and yet he did nothing about it. If you as a ref decide oh I will let it slide and slide and slide you end up with a poor game because the side with the more talented players is paying for the refs inaction and lack of bottle. I am not saying every time a player fouls he needs to be booked but in a situation like Tuesday he should have pulled the Swansea skipper and told him he knows what is going on and unless they stop it yellows are going to come out, similar to the way Rugby union operates. Sadly the decline in refereeing standards is football wide and in most cases is not the fault of the individual referee but the people above who set the standards and train them. And as we know from just watching them in action the people who run football in this country , Prem league, EFL etc are largely incompetent. | | | |
| Just back on 12:12 - Jan 27 with 996 views | PinnerPaul |
| Just back on 19:01 - Jan 26 by westberksr |
I think refs have a hard job but need to distinguish between honest endeavours that are possibly miss timed or down to over exuberance and the type of planned cynical gamesmanship we saw last night.
I might be a mile off but would hope that the refs discuss and communicate this type of stuff to each other. Although presumably not as Willock is getting kicked to sh it every match as players take turn with the fouling 'stick' to prevent getting booked.
you'd think they might have things like cameras and highlights to refer to and could have a little whatsapp group to pass notes to each other! (kidding about the whatsappp, but you get the idea) |
They do more than just watch a few highlights - EVERY decision (and non decision) is marked and they get a report with all that on.
KMIs (Key match incidents) wrong and they have to explain why they gave a particular decision.
One thing they can't change are the actual LOTG, 'persistence infringement' refers to a player, not a team - of course nothing stopping the ref cautioning for a reckless challenge or for a tactical foul, but persistent fouling by a team isn't one you can caution for per se. | | | |
| Just back (n/t) on 13:23 - Jan 27 with 943 views | francisbowles |
| Just back on 11:32 - Jan 26 by ParkRoyalR |
Manning on this thread has been criticized for being slow, uninterested in tracking back and falling over too easy.
Manning has also been criticized for wanting to move to another club who were willing to pay him a much larger salary.
Now, not wishing to be contrary, but the former could apply to Austin last night and the latter when Austin forced his previous exit from the club.
Manning was always fit when called upon and earned his wages. I don't get the criticism. |
[Post edited 27 Jan 2022 13:33]
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| Just back on 13:31 - Jan 27 with 914 views | francisbowles |
| Just back on 11:32 - Jan 26 by ParkRoyalR |
Manning on this thread has been criticized for being slow, uninterested in tracking back and falling over too easy.
Manning has also been criticized for wanting to move to another club who were willing to pay him a much larger salary.
Now, not wishing to be contrary, but the former could apply to Austin last night and the latter when Austin forced his previous exit from the club.
Manning was always fit when called upon and earned his wages. I don't get the criticism. |
'Manning has also been criticized for wanting to move to another club who were willing to pay him a much larger salary.
Now, not wishing to be contrary, but the former could apply to Austin last night and the latter when Austin forced his previous exit from the club.'
With regards to Charlie, yes he wanted to leave and join us on a two year deal but West Brom, reportedly, had another year's option which they decided not to exercise as it would have cost them £40k a week. | | | |
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| Just back on 16:07 - Jan 27 with 799 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Just back on 13:31 - Jan 27 by francisbowles |
'Manning has also been criticized for wanting to move to another club who were willing to pay him a much larger salary.
Now, not wishing to be contrary, but the former could apply to Austin last night and the latter when Austin forced his previous exit from the club.'
With regards to Charlie, yes he wanted to leave and join us on a two year deal but West Brom, reportedly, had another year's option which they decided not to exercise as it would have cost them £40k a week. |
Sorry, was comparing Manning's move to Swansea to Austin's move to Southampton. | | | |
| Just back on 19:18 - Jan 27 with 726 views | QPROslo |
| Just back on 19:43 - Jan 26 by francisbowles |
Can't agree with pace, certainly not when facing his own goal. |
Me neither. Manning frequently looked like he couldn't be arsed to run back and defend when he was with us. When he was in involved in a tussle for the ball he tended to fall over and die for a a minute or two. Decent enough going forward, passing, shooting, but defending seemed somehow beneath him. Glad he went. | | | |
| Just back on 20:03 - Jan 27 with 658 views | derbyhoop |
The ref had a difficult job. Willock was regularly fouled but Swansea players seemed to take it in turns and none of them were worthy of a booking. Nor could he have done 1 player for cumulative offences.
Saying that, the stop-start nature didn't make for an entertaining spectacle. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Just back on 20:11 - Jan 27 with 637 views | stowmarketrange |
| Just back on 20:03 - Jan 27 by derbyhoop |
The ref had a difficult job. Willock was regularly fouled but Swansea players seemed to take it in turns and none of them were worthy of a booking. Nor could he have done 1 player for cumulative offences.
Saying that, the stop-start nature didn't make for an entertaining spectacle. |
I’m just watching the game again from the recording,and it seemed a lot more exciting on Tuesday night.I spent 2 hours walking to the ground from Liverpool st on Tuesday evening,and I think I’d prefer to do the walk again rather than watch this again.
There’s a lot to be said for Guinness dulling the senses. |  | | |
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