| The Falklands 23:07 - Jun 12 with 4202 views | stowmarketrange |
I just watched the bbc 2 program about the Falklands war and the stories of some of the veterans.Some really horrific stories from the servicemen involved in the battles to reclaim the islands.
I guess it still affects a lot of veterans and their families,even after 40 years.It was the first war involving Britain that I remember,and as I was living in Weymouth at the time,it affected a lot of naval families living in the town then.
I was actually on holiday in Florida at the time when the war broke out,so I missed the initial trouble trying to get any sort of response together.But the yanks out there were very enthusiastic about a war so close to them.
I know that the people involved were all regular servicemen and women,and a lot of them were severely affected by their experiences,but they all knew that armed conflict was a possibility when they signed up.I can’t imagine how much harder it must’ve been for the conscripted personnel in WW1 and 2,who left their ordinary jobs behind to fight in a war zone after just a few weeks basic training.How did they manage to adjust back into normal life again after what they’d been through.
My dad joined up on his 18th birthday in April 1944,and was posted to mainland Europe only a few months later,but it was something he never talked about,and we never asked.But most of his mates always seemed to have moved on from the things they did or saw.Was it a generational thing because they all lived through it together.Or did a lot suffer in silence because there wasn’t the help available then,and had to live with their demons for the rest of their lives?
I take my hat off to anyone who has fought in wars and conflicts to keep us all safe over the years. |  | | |  |
| The Falklands on 23:22 - Jun 12 with 3123 views | distortR |
I was out and about over the weekend, TT and the pubs are rammed, and friendly. Anyway, I bumped into a mate who is ex-services, and ended up with a large group of vets - Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan. All nice blokes, a couple out on obvious medical grounds, but I don't think they ever fully leave the army.
Anyway, talking to one, who made the point that they knew what they signed up for, and all I could think was, that you were probably 17 or 18 at the time - what do you really know then?
I too have great respect for servicemen, if not the politicians and their bullshit wars. |  | | |
| The Falklands on 00:15 - Jun 13 with 3029 views | Myke |
Reading this made me think of the situation in Ukraine. Don't know the percentage, but pretty sure a significant amount of Ukraine soldiers were ordinary citizens until February. I heard of one bloke who was working in Aldi in Dublin for the past 15 years and went home to help fight against the Russian army and was killed in April. Probably thousands of others in a similar situation, not necessarily dead, but fighting in a war that they never were even trained for. | | | |
| The Falklands on 00:38 - Jun 13 with 2991 views | Toast_R |
| The Falklands on 00:15 - Jun 13 by Myke |
Reading this made me think of the situation in Ukraine. Don't know the percentage, but pretty sure a significant amount of Ukraine soldiers were ordinary citizens until February. I heard of one bloke who was working in Aldi in Dublin for the past 15 years and went home to help fight against the Russian army and was killed in April. Probably thousands of others in a similar situation, not necessarily dead, but fighting in a war that they never were even trained for. |
My dad always mentions his Uncle Dave who was captured by the Japanese in Singapore and endured the torturous Japanese POW camp. He was also wounded and had to hide his injuries for the risk of being executed. The family thought he was dead for a few years as he was MIA persumed dead. A couple of years after the war ended they received letter from the Red Cross saying he had been found and had been in some form of rehabilitation after his release. When he finally came home my dad always said he never really survived the experience. He passed away not too many years later from various health complications and was a mere shell of the man who joined up. [Post edited 13 Jun 2022 0:40]
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| The Falklands on 04:05 - Jun 13 with 2896 views | nix |
My dad enlisted at 19 and was one of those captured trying to get to Dunkirk. He was in a POW camp for the rest of the war, and had several brushes with death over that whole time. He was also forced to take part in one of the Long Marches west fleeing the Red Army back towards Germany from his Polish POW camp.
He rarely talked about his experiences, but was still traumatised, mostly about seeing friends die, and still had awful nightmares where he would shout out 'don't shoot' and generally wail, until the day he died. He also lost his older brother who was killed in Italy. Being involved in a war is a terrible thing. |  | | |
| The Falklands on 04:36 - Jun 13 with 2887 views | PlanetHonneywood |
As an amputee of the late 60s, my formative years saw me frequently attend Roehampton Limb Centre. There I met scores of veterans from both WW 1 and 2.
It remains an abiding memory of my childhood, how these visits were covered in tears. My mum was very good at listening and often times these veterans seeing a small child playing would comment to my mum to assuage her sadness that ‘Well he won’t have to fight in a war!’
Then these guys seemed able to open up and would talk about their experiences to my mum. Back then, veterans had no form of stress counselling; understanding PTSD was years off; and talking to a stranger is often easier. They were from a generation where ‘pull yourself together man’ was the only help offered; thus it’s no surprise they suffered in silence for so long. As they spoke, I was always asking my mum why everyone bar me was crying?
My work brought me into the presence of Vietnam vets and to a man, their accounts and experiences were identical. It seems no lessons were ever learned or shared.
Consequently on my travels over the years, I often devote some time to visiting sites/graves of past battles to pay respects. I’m forever saddened by the age on tombstones and reminded that for those who returned, the real battles remained to be fought for the rest of their lives; as shared above. |  |
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| The Falklands on 06:30 - Jun 13 with 2796 views | Lblock |
I remember being absolutely transfixed by the Battle for the Falklands as a kid…. Clear memory of being on a school trip and we kept up to date via pocket radio!! It was like a war film was actually happening with us in it - suppose it kind of was.
My ambition then was to join the Paras and I’m sure that’s where my strong patriotism was forged stronger. It was only as I “grew up” (moot point to some) through my late teens that I realised war was no game or glamour and perhaps the army wasn’t for me but warehouses and dance music was a better option! Still kept the patriotic slant.
Anyway…. From watching that last night it reinforced one thing I’d later learnt – just how lucky we were that the Argentinian army was so poor, relying on weight of numbers and little else. The faces of abject fear on the teenage surrendered Argie conscripts was sobering
My utmost respect to all service folk but my complete disdain for those who send them into needless conflict over oil, power or simple “games” |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| The Falklands on 07:47 - Jun 13 with 2702 views | stowmarketrange |
| The Falklands on 04:05 - Jun 13 by nix |
My dad enlisted at 19 and was one of those captured trying to get to Dunkirk. He was in a POW camp for the rest of the war, and had several brushes with death over that whole time. He was also forced to take part in one of the Long Marches west fleeing the Red Army back towards Germany from his Polish POW camp.
He rarely talked about his experiences, but was still traumatised, mostly about seeing friends die, and still had awful nightmares where he would shout out 'don't shoot' and generally wail, until the day he died. He also lost his older brother who was killed in Italy. Being involved in a war is a terrible thing. |
My dad lost an older brother in Italy too,and I think that’s why he joined up as soon as he was able to.He never got to visit his brother’s grave in Naples,but my brother and I went there 70 years to the day that he died in feb 1944.I couldn’t just how many white headstones there were just in this one cemetery in Naples.And to think that there are 1,000’s of cemeteries like it throughout the world.And the ages of the kids that paid the ultimate price is really staggering.
A whole generation of men lost for a 2nd time in 30 years. | | | |
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| The Falklands on 08:19 - Jun 13 with 2613 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
The current / next set of tensions over the Falklands will be oil related sadly. [Post edited 13 Jun 2022 8:19]
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| The Falklands on 08:19 - Jun 13 with 2609 views | joe90 |
The last just war we fought. It doesn’t get the recognition it deserves IMO. |  | | |
| The Falklands on 09:09 - Jun 13 with 2529 views | Maggsinho |
| The Falklands on 06:30 - Jun 13 by Lblock |
I remember being absolutely transfixed by the Battle for the Falklands as a kid…. Clear memory of being on a school trip and we kept up to date via pocket radio!! It was like a war film was actually happening with us in it - suppose it kind of was.
My ambition then was to join the Paras and I’m sure that’s where my strong patriotism was forged stronger. It was only as I “grew up” (moot point to some) through my late teens that I realised war was no game or glamour and perhaps the army wasn’t for me but warehouses and dance music was a better option! Still kept the patriotic slant.
Anyway…. From watching that last night it reinforced one thing I’d later learnt – just how lucky we were that the Argentinian army was so poor, relying on weight of numbers and little else. The faces of abject fear on the teenage surrendered Argie conscripts was sobering
My utmost respect to all service folk but my complete disdain for those who send them into needless conflict over oil, power or simple “games” |
I was transfixed too, I remember my mum picking me up from school and the first words out of my mouth were 'what's happened in the war?' I was obsessed with aircraft I used to read Warlord and Commando comics at the time and it was like they had come to life.
It seemed inevitable that we would win at the time but the more you read and watch about it you realise just how close and dangerous a moment it was. |  | | |
| The Falklands on 10:55 - Jun 13 with 2386 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| The Falklands on 08:19 - Jun 13 by joe90 |
The last just war we fought. It doesn’t get the recognition it deserves IMO. |
I used to live above a Ex Servicemen's Club in Watford and the landlord was a Falklands veteran (Submariner) who was adamant that it wasn't a just war. Refused to say if he was in the one that sunk the Belgrano so I always took it that he was.
The rights of the Falklands Islanders to self determination especially against a fascist government for me is inalienable, so I think it was just on that basis but little else.
Using the war to boost lagging support at home despite being in talks with Argentina to hand over sovereignty two years prior was criminal, and sadly little known.
Like every conflict, including Ukraine, it's not as simple as good guys and bad guys and there are never absolutes.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jun/28/falklands.past [Post edited 13 Jun 2022 11:01]
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| The Falklands on 11:15 - Jun 13 with 2298 views | TheChef |
| The Falklands on 10:55 - Jun 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I used to live above a Ex Servicemen's Club in Watford and the landlord was a Falklands veteran (Submariner) who was adamant that it wasn't a just war. Refused to say if he was in the one that sunk the Belgrano so I always took it that he was.
The rights of the Falklands Islanders to self determination especially against a fascist government for me is inalienable, so I think it was just on that basis but little else.
Using the war to boost lagging support at home despite being in talks with Argentina to hand over sovereignty two years prior was criminal, and sadly little known.
Like every conflict, including Ukraine, it's not as simple as good guys and bad guys and there are never absolutes.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jun/28/falklands.past [Post edited 13 Jun 2022 11:01]
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Given how awful Thatcher's ratings were just before the war, the timing of it was quite convenient to give her a boost. It certainly helped her win the 1983 election without it (although to be fair the Labour Party led by Michael Foot was always going to struggle...) |  |
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| The Falklands on 11:27 - Jun 13 with 2273 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| The Falklands on 11:15 - Jun 13 by TheChef |
Given how awful Thatcher's ratings were just before the war, the timing of it was quite convenient to give her a boost. It certainly helped her win the 1983 election without it (although to be fair the Labour Party led by Michael Foot was always going to struggle...) |
Labour under Foot had a 15% lead 6 months before the Falklands war broke out.
Everyone points to the 'suicide note' manifesto but Labour was already 20% behind when it was published. Some re writing of history me thinks! | | | |
| The Falklands (n/t) on 12:28 - Jun 13 with 2177 views | joe90 |
| The Falklands on 10:55 - Jun 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I used to live above a Ex Servicemen's Club in Watford and the landlord was a Falklands veteran (Submariner) who was adamant that it wasn't a just war. Refused to say if he was in the one that sunk the Belgrano so I always took it that he was.
The rights of the Falklands Islanders to self determination especially against a fascist government for me is inalienable, so I think it was just on that basis but little else.
Using the war to boost lagging support at home despite being in talks with Argentina to hand over sovereignty two years prior was criminal, and sadly little known.
Like every conflict, including Ukraine, it's not as simple as good guys and bad guys and there are never absolutes.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jun/28/falklands.past [Post edited 13 Jun 2022 11:01]
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I do want to respond to this, but I know it won’t go down well so I’ll leave it. Politics is a sensitive subject on here.
[Post edited 13 Jun 2022 12:46]
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| The Falklands on 12:33 - Jun 13 with 2156 views | LythamR |
This is now heading somewhere we dont really want it to go to while Clive is on Holiday |  | | |
| The Falklands on 12:33 - Jun 13 with 2156 views | Phildo |
recommend the rest is history podcast on this - they did an excellent little series on it a few weeks ago |  | | |
| The Falklands on 12:37 - Jun 13 with 2118 views | stowmarketrange |
| The Falklands on 12:33 - Jun 13 by LythamR |
This is now heading somewhere we dont really want it to go to while Clive is on Holiday |
I didn’t start the thread in order for a political debate to breakout,but only to highlight the stories of the veterans from last night.It would be a shame if it turned into an argument about whether we should’ve gone to war or not. | | | |
| The Falklands on 12:42 - Jun 13 with 2090 views | Juzzie |
| The Falklands on 12:37 - Jun 13 by stowmarketrange |
I didn’t start the thread in order for a political debate to breakout,but only to highlight the stories of the veterans from last night.It would be a shame if it turned into an argument about whether we should’ve gone to war or not. |
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| The Falklands on 12:44 - Jun 13 with 2075 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| The Falklands on 12:33 - Jun 13 by LythamR |
This is now heading somewhere we dont really want it to go to while Clive is on Holiday |
I think it's been very civil, but no more comment from me if that helps. | | | |
| The Falklands on 13:09 - Jun 13 with 1956 views | TheChef |
| The Falklands on 11:27 - Jun 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Labour under Foot had a 15% lead 6 months before the Falklands war broke out.
Everyone points to the 'suicide note' manifesto but Labour was already 20% behind when it was published. Some re writing of history me thinks! |
Cheers Bazza, didn't realise that.
Would have been interesting to see how the 1983 election had played out, if the war hadn't happened. Ifs buts and maybes, and all that. | |
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| The Falklands on 13:12 - Jun 13 with 1945 views | BucksRanger |
That would be very helpful Bazza. I am trying to restrain the urge to reply to your posts. |  | | |
| The Falklands on 13:20 - Jun 13 with 1913 views | NorthantsHoop |
The documentary was very thought provoking it terms of what it takes to actually be in combat. I remember the Falklands war as I was 18 at the time, some of those lads fighting were my age. What came across from the programme was the bravery of those men, how they felt guilt at having to kill or be killed and that the Argentinians were mainly poorly equiped conscripts who did not want to fight the war. |  | | |
| The Falklands on 13:25 - Jun 13 with 1871 views | TheChef |
| The Falklands on 13:20 - Jun 13 by NorthantsHoop |
The documentary was very thought provoking it terms of what it takes to actually be in combat. I remember the Falklands war as I was 18 at the time, some of those lads fighting were my age. What came across from the programme was the bravery of those men, how they felt guilt at having to kill or be killed and that the Argentinians were mainly poorly equiped conscripts who did not want to fight the war. |
I only caught the very end so will need to watch in full on catch-up.
I also recently read a book about the war from an Argentine perspective which was quite eye-opening:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Argentine-Fight-Falklands-Martin-Middlebrook/dp/1844158
On both sides, as is sadly often the case in war, lions led by donkeys... | |
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| The Falklands on 13:28 - Jun 13 with 1867 views | BostonR |
| The Falklands on 10:55 - Jun 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I used to live above a Ex Servicemen's Club in Watford and the landlord was a Falklands veteran (Submariner) who was adamant that it wasn't a just war. Refused to say if he was in the one that sunk the Belgrano so I always took it that he was.
The rights of the Falklands Islanders to self determination especially against a fascist government for me is inalienable, so I think it was just on that basis but little else.
Using the war to boost lagging support at home despite being in talks with Argentina to hand over sovereignty two years prior was criminal, and sadly little known.
Like every conflict, including Ukraine, it's not as simple as good guys and bad guys and there are never absolutes.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jun/28/falklands.past [Post edited 13 Jun 2022 11:01]
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Commander of Conqueror - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Wreford-Brown |  | | |
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