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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 20:28 - Dec 12 by ManinBlack
I agree with everything in the report and a lot of the comments.
We have always been a soft touch, we see that every time we play clubs in poor form, or a striker struggling to score for his team, we always help them out. We don't try and refereee games like Rooney used to do, even Messi was getting at the ref for Argentina last week. We are just so nice and obliging.
We might consider ourselves better than Rotherham for example but last month Rotherham led 2-1 at Turf Moor. 12 minutes of world Cup stoppage time allowed Burnley to nick it 3-2 but at least the Millers gave everything. What did we give yesterday?
I worry that the last 3 months of last season and our form since November is actually our normal form and the good first half of last season and start to this was down to us playing out of our skins which we can't keep up.
Lots of work for Critchley as the losing mentality is well and truly back. It is something that seems to come round at some point every single season, no matter who the manager or players are.
Perfect analysis of where we are as a team and club. We just seem to attract too many of the "chancers" in modern football - both on and off the pitch.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 21:40 - Dec 12 with 1304 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 16:52 - Dec 12 by nix
According to Transfermarkt they spent €24 million on players this season as well as expensive loan signings. It's a bit easier to meld players together when you're paying top dollar, which is what this is in Championship terms.
I agree with you though about Critchley , it'll be interesting to see what he manages to do with team spirit. It certainly seems to have gone over a cliff after the Beale fiasco, together with the belief of the fans.
Fighting for their lives would be a massive step forward and I've got a feeling that's something Critchley can manage, which is why I preferred him to other candidates.
Ok my numbers were off slightly, but the point remains. With a couple of exceptions, Kompany has assembled a new first eleven ( and a deep squad) on a relative shoestring and is pissing this division in some style.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 21:42 - Dec 12 with 1302 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 17:29 - Dec 12 by traininvain
I thought Tim was far too deep in the first half to have any real impact on the game. But at least he put in a few tackles and was probably lucky not to get booked.
Anyone else feel that Tim would be better used in a more advanced role as he looks at his best taking on players in the opposition half. Feels a bit of a waste having him sat in front of the back four.
Agree. He can’t tackle without fouling anyway. Far better at receiving the ball and drifting past players ala Eze.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 21:43 - Dec 12 with 1300 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 21:40 - Dec 12 by Burnleyhoop
Ok my numbers were off slightly, but the point remains. With a couple of exceptions, Kompany has assembled a new first eleven ( and a deep squad) on a relative shoestring and is pissing this division in some style.
How is £24m a relative shoestring? Maybe by prem standards, but not by the championship.
The key context is its the biggest spend in the division. By far.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 22:05 - Dec 12 with 1256 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 21:40 - Dec 12 by Burnleyhoop
Ok my numbers were off slightly, but the point remains. With a couple of exceptions, Kompany has assembled a new first eleven ( and a deep squad) on a relative shoestring and is pissing this division in some style.
Sorry as others have said €24 million is a massive amount to have to assemble a squad in the Championship. Definitely not purchasing a squad on a shoestring. FFP over three years is £39 million and then you have to factor in wages, so no-one who is not receiving parachute payments could spend anywhere near that.
What Ryan Lowe is achieving at Preston, is more impressive with literally only free transfers and loan signings.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 22:30 - Dec 12 with 1208 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 17:29 - Dec 12 by traininvain
I thought Tim was far too deep in the first half to have any real impact on the game. But at least he put in a few tackles and was probably lucky not to get booked.
Anyone else feel that Tim would be better used in a more advanced role as he looks at his best taking on players in the opposition half. Feels a bit of a waste having him sat in front of the back four.
I agree: when he goes on one of his direct runs towards the oppo goal then things happen. It’s one of his main strengths and could definitely win us a number of penalties if he is played further forward. Although he blows hot and cold he looks a great prospect.
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 22:30 - Dec 12 by Ned_Kennedys
I agree: when he goes on one of his direct runs towards the oppo goal then things happen. It’s one of his main strengths and could definitely win us a number of penalties if he is played further forward. Although he blows hot and cold he looks a great prospect.
he's a great prospect, but he's not ours, never will be and probably isn't what we need right now.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 01:23 - Dec 13 with 1122 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 21:56 - Dec 12 by 1JD
How is £24m a relative shoestring? Maybe by prem standards, but not by the championship.
The key context is its the biggest spend in the division. By far.
On an almost entirely brand new team, not just a couple of over priced strikers. He has built that team from the ground up and got it playing by far the best football in the division with just over 20 games played and looking odds on certs for promotion. How much money have we pissed up the wall over the years on utter dross.
Some achievement in my opinion.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 07:07 - Dec 13 with 1074 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 01:23 - Dec 13 by Burnleyhoop
On an almost entirely brand new team, not just a couple of over priced strikers. He has built that team from the ground up and got it playing by far the best football in the division with just over 20 games played and looking odds on certs for promotion. How much money have we pissed up the wall over the years on utter dross.
Some achievement in my opinion.
Still think you're overplaying the achievement. The cost of players makes a massive difference in the Championship. The transfer fees of the players already at the club including a couple of the players who played against us, was €27 million. It makes a massive difference because when your better players are injured or knackered you've still got decent players to come on. We've got George Thomas, Shodipo, Adomah, Armstrong and Bonne, who for various reasons including inexperience and age are just not at that level.
With our first team, including our loan players, we were top of the league not that long ago. But the difference is, without decent replacements for injury or just squad rotation, we fell away really quickly. And we had seven new players come in that were regulars at the beginning of the season that got us to that point.
As for us spunking our money, well that's obvious. But that highlights how badly we did rather than how well Burnley are doing. It takes some going, a poor, usually backward looking manager (Bruce and Redknapp) and really poor recruitment on ageing, overpaid players on long contracts to do as badly as we did, and other similar teams like WBA and Stoke. Billic and Parker managed to get teams up with parachute payments. What's really impressive in a manager is managing to keep them up when you're still on a smallish budget like Frank, Potter and Howe. If he's still managing Burnley in the Prem in two years time, then he'll have proven himself.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2022 8:51]
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 08:57 - Dec 13 with 988 views
Not far 'off the money' with the report Norf......I left rather disappointed not necessarily by the result but by the way we played, although I was disappointed with the scoreline.
One other point, I wonder how we would have reacted if we had scored from the unawarded penalty in the first minute and if the free kick we conceded was not given.....probably like you I think Burnley would have had too much for us but it may have been a slightly different game. Football, a game of small margins!!!
I remain positive, relegation is not on my agenda
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:10 - Dec 13 with 878 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 18:56 - Dec 12 by traininvain
I can’t speak for everyone but I was frustrated with the goal kick incident because it wasn’t the first time that Burnley had committed a tactical foul to stop us getting further up the pitch. A clever Guardiola tactic that Kompany has adopted at Burnley.
It’s street wise game management that we can only dream of seeing with our team of nice lads. But a better ref would’ve picked up on it and booked a Burnley player. This ref finally booked one of them for a tactical foul in the last 5 minutes. Typical!
Get what you mean, but you can't justify it was reckless, so you're left with breaking up a promising attack, as the GK has the ball, that's a difficult sell as well.
Just like some challenges 'deserve' a red but just aren't by LOTG, I get what you're saying but as per LOTG, in this instance, he was correct.
Also Clive, you have only 1 caution on 90 + 2, I'm sure I saw at least one Burnley player cautioned and I left on 75'?
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:12 - Dec 13 with 868 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 19:19 - Dec 12 by Northernr
I think the thing people were pissed off with about that, other than just being generally pissed off about everything by that point, is Dieng was trying to get a quick counter attack away. If the striker had tripped him, he'd have been booked, but because he blocked him, he's not - same difference, you're fouling the goalkeeper to stop the break away, but a different punishment.
Not sure about that, defender has the ball there, and is tripped - yellow? Don't think so?
As above - see what you're saying and yes by then crowd were pretty much ready to shout at anything and everything, inc the poor old ER AR, as usual, who didn't get anything wrong that I saw.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:14 - Dec 13 with 865 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 19:56 - Dec 12 by nix
This is the thing: the talented teams that play nice football also use every trick in the book to gain a competitive advantage. Burnley are no different, just like Bournemouth last season. It helps that refs tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, either cos of their rep for pretty football or their recent Prem pedigree, they tend to get the rub of the green. They break up other teams' rhythm and stop them attacking quickly by throwing the ball away for free kicks, having long discussions with the ref, going down with fake head injuries, stopping the goalie from taking a quick throw or kick to catch them out of position, diving, breaking up promising attacks etc. Every time they don't get booked for cynical tricks, they gain a bit of an advantage.
Yesterday it' was obvious with the free kick that led to their first goal, but it makes a difference in every single match it happens in by allowing them to always have more momentum than the other team. I know we're supposed to want our players to be like saints but TBH I'm a bit sick of us being mugs and I quite hope Critchley isn't quite so honourable.
The momentum thing is a very good point.
You're right - many teams seem to be able control the pace of the match better than we do.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:16 - Dec 13 with 863 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:10 - Dec 13 by PinnerPaul
Get what you mean, but you can't justify it was reckless, so you're left with breaking up a promising attack, as the GK has the ball, that's a difficult sell as well.
Just like some challenges 'deserve' a red but just aren't by LOTG, I get what you're saying but as per LOTG, in this instance, he was correct.
Also Clive, you have only 1 caution on 90 + 2, I'm sure I saw at least one Burnley player cautioned and I left on 75'?
Missed the Cork one, mentioned in the report, have added it back in.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:18 - Dec 13 with 855 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 07:07 - Dec 13 by nix
Still think you're overplaying the achievement. The cost of players makes a massive difference in the Championship. The transfer fees of the players already at the club including a couple of the players who played against us, was €27 million. It makes a massive difference because when your better players are injured or knackered you've still got decent players to come on. We've got George Thomas, Shodipo, Adomah, Armstrong and Bonne, who for various reasons including inexperience and age are just not at that level.
With our first team, including our loan players, we were top of the league not that long ago. But the difference is, without decent replacements for injury or just squad rotation, we fell away really quickly. And we had seven new players come in that were regulars at the beginning of the season that got us to that point.
As for us spunking our money, well that's obvious. But that highlights how badly we did rather than how well Burnley are doing. It takes some going, a poor, usually backward looking manager (Bruce and Redknapp) and really poor recruitment on ageing, overpaid players on long contracts to do as badly as we did, and other similar teams like WBA and Stoke. Billic and Parker managed to get teams up with parachute payments. What's really impressive in a manager is managing to keep them up when you're still on a smallish budget like Frank, Potter and Howe. If he's still managing Burnley in the Prem in two years time, then he'll have proven himself.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2022 8:51]
Howe myth alert - Bournemouth were top 6 spenders but never near top 6 finishers.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:19 - Dec 13 with 844 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 17:51 - Dec 12 by YokelR
Something very wrong at the club if we've still got a coach who thinks there is a player in Thomas that warrants a starting place? We need a clear out of personnel whose judgement is to sign duds like him and Bonne. As for the playing staff I hope the new manager sits them down today and makes them watch that crap yesterday and tells them the least the fans deserve is that they try.
I totally agree that neither Thomas nor Bonne are at the required level yet, and may never be, but I don't put that down to the club, or at least, only partially.
FFP currently means we can't afford to recruit a squad of players all of whom are already at the required level. We would breach the rules.
That means some of the squad will, for the foreseeable future, need to be our own, home-grown prospects or other clubs' cast-offs, whether they are experienced players who are reasonably cheap or young rough diamonds who might - might - make the grade.
This is the reality of our situation, ugly and frustrating as it is.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:50 - Dec 13 with 790 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:10 - Dec 13 by PinnerPaul
Get what you mean, but you can't justify it was reckless, so you're left with breaking up a promising attack, as the GK has the ball, that's a difficult sell as well.
Just like some challenges 'deserve' a red but just aren't by LOTG, I get what you're saying but as per LOTG, in this instance, he was correct.
Also Clive, you have only 1 caution on 90 + 2, I'm sure I saw at least one Burnley player cautioned and I left on 75'?
Interesting. So as a referee is there anything that can be done to stop tactical fouling of this nature?
I.e. various players from one team taking it in turns to stop the other team in their own half and killing any momentum to counter attack etc.
If not then it seems quite a useful tactic and it’s easy to see why the likes of Guardiola and Kompany use it to good affect. Maybe we could learn a thing or two!
I’m fairly sure the Burnley player cautioned on 90 +2 was committing a tactical foul in our half but maybe it wasn’t his first offence.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:57 - Dec 13 with 776 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:50 - Dec 13 by traininvain
Interesting. So as a referee is there anything that can be done to stop tactical fouling of this nature?
I.e. various players from one team taking it in turns to stop the other team in their own half and killing any momentum to counter attack etc.
If not then it seems quite a useful tactic and it’s easy to see why the likes of Guardiola and Kompany use it to good affect. Maybe we could learn a thing or two!
I’m fairly sure the Burnley player cautioned on 90 +2 was committing a tactical foul in our half but maybe it wasn’t his first offence.
Is it no longer possible to book players for 'unsportsmanlinke conduct', which would surely be applicable in the multiple incidents in every game when players are hacked down/tripped/blocked to stop breaks?
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:50 - Dec 13 by traininvain
Interesting. So as a referee is there anything that can be done to stop tactical fouling of this nature?
I.e. various players from one team taking it in turns to stop the other team in their own half and killing any momentum to counter attack etc.
If not then it seems quite a useful tactic and it’s easy to see why the likes of Guardiola and Kompany use it to good affect. Maybe we could learn a thing or two!
I’m fairly sure the Burnley player cautioned on 90 +2 was committing a tactical foul in our half but maybe it wasn’t his first offence.
Its Breaking up Promising Attack, you see loads of cautions for it.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 12:29 - Dec 13 with 704 views
In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 11:57 - Dec 13 by BrianMcCarthy
Is it no longer possible to book players for 'unsportsmanlinke conduct', which would surely be applicable in the multiple incidents in every game when players are hacked down/tripped/blocked to stop breaks?
Its USB Brian, which actually covers loads of things and here they are!
Cautions for unsporting behaviour There are different circumstances when a player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour, including if a player: - attempts to deceive the referee, e.g. by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation) - changes places with the goalkeeper during play or without the referee’s permission (see Law 3) 104 - commits in a reckless manner a direct free kick offence - handles the ball to interfere with or stop a promising attack - commits any other offence which interferes with or stops a promising attack, except where the referee awards a penalty kick for an offence which was an attempt to play the ball - denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by an offence which was an attempt to play the ball and the referee awards a penalty kick - handles the ball in an attempt to score a goal (whether or not the attempt is successful) or in an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal - makes unauthorised marks on the field of play - plays the ball when leaving the field of play after being given permission to leave - shows a lack of respect for the game - initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law, whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for initiating the deliberate trick - verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart
I suppose the catch all one you could use is lack of respect for the game one.
I suppose best way to describe it is, every foul near the pen area is trying to deny an obvious gs opportunity (red) or break up a promising attack (yellow) but obviously not all fouls near the pen area are carded.
If reckless foul can be anywhere obviously for a card but its usually the cynical trips, pulls, holding an oppo heading off towards goal with a clear chance of starting an attack - we all know as fb fans when those are, just really don't think the Seny incident falls into any of the above.
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In the Bleak Midwinter - Report on 12:35 - Dec 13 with 687 views
Seny was trying to get the ball forward to start a counter attack as Burnley had committed players forward and we had a chance to break. I thought it was quite cynical from the Burnley player but perhaps the ref saw Dykes upfront for us and came to the conclusion that Dieng getting the ball forward to him was unlikely to start an attack!
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