| Charlie Owens 18:05 - Mar 8 with 8322 views | BillericayR |
Playing for the U18's. Been on loan at Colchester.
Seems to have been with us for years but never played. I know he has been beset with injuries.
But why is he still with us?
If he is currently not injured then surely he should be pushing for a first team place at his age. |  | | |  |
| Charlie Owens on 11:42 - Mar 9 with 2335 views | Northernr |
| Charlie Owens on 11:36 - Mar 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’m playing devils advocate, and I know we have an exceptional situation in regards to injuries right now, but who would we have played or filled the bench against Rotherham if we didn’t have Drewe, Gubbins, Dixon-Bonner, Aaoroha (sp).
Would have to have been 15/16 year olds. That works fine for me but I don’t see how useful it would have been for one of them to have had a debut under the current toxic cloud. |
22, 21, 22, 20. I'm not talking about them, though it is going to be decision time on them soon.
I'm talking about these players that get to 23-24-25-26 and are kept on here, Owens has had several contract extensions. They're not good enough, never going to be good enough, not even making our bench at the moment in this situation so not exactly 'backing up the first team', never impress out on loan... I don't get it, what are we doing?
This is the Dillon Barnes thing again, another 25-26 year old we just had hanging around, as it turned out not even in the 25 man squad so we could go and get Westwood in.
Are we skint or not skint? |  | | |
| Charlie Owens on 11:47 - Mar 9 with 2277 views | daveB |
| Charlie Owens on 11:26 - Mar 9 by Northernr |
I think you're being very generous. |
possibly and I'm not saying we're right to keep these players, I'd have released the ones mentioned a few years back but all clubs have these kind of players to fill the squad with as they are probably a lot cheaper than buying or loaning from elsewhere.
A lot of it feels political so Les and co can say when selling the club to young kids ands their parents that we've had this number of players come from the academy into the first team, it's something that looks good on paper. Maybe we need a certain number of home grown players in the squad
I'm just a bit tired of all the negativity at the moment, it's non stop. Of course everyone (including me) is right to moan about the first team but it's been relentless this season over some real minor things. From Sinclair Armstrong or someone who looked like him getting stick for going to Burger King or anaylysing a players character based on a facial expression from a 2 second video clip and now giving a one year deal to Charlie Owens to see if he can recover from his injury. I think I need a holiday [Post edited 9 Mar 2023 11:48]
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| Charlie Owens on 11:48 - Mar 9 with 2255 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Charlie Owens on 11:36 - Mar 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’m playing devils advocate, and I know we have an exceptional situation in regards to injuries right now, but who would we have played or filled the bench against Rotherham if we didn’t have Drewe, Gubbins, Dixon-Bonner, Aaoroha (sp).
Would have to have been 15/16 year olds. That works fine for me but I don’t see how useful it would have been for one of them to have had a debut under the current toxic cloud. |
Isn't the problem that we seem to have an abundance of players hanging around the club who are never going to be good enough at this level? For example, Blackburn and Bristol City both have multiple players from their system coming through and playing regularly. We might stick one on the bench but when it comes down to actually playing, we go and loan in someone. Gubbins has been on the bench for a while now but hasn't been given a chance even when Dickie is playing like Gus Caesar on PCP. It's a completely dysfunctional situation. | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 12:00 - Mar 9 with 2220 views | daveB |
| Charlie Owens on 11:48 - Mar 9 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Isn't the problem that we seem to have an abundance of players hanging around the club who are never going to be good enough at this level? For example, Blackburn and Bristol City both have multiple players from their system coming through and playing regularly. We might stick one on the bench but when it comes down to actually playing, we go and loan in someone. Gubbins has been on the bench for a while now but hasn't been given a chance even when Dickie is playing like Gus Caesar on PCP. It's a completely dysfunctional situation. |
I'd certainly agree more of them should get a chance, we die not knowing with so many players. Masterson, Gubbins and Kellman are 3 that spring to mind at the moment and that is part of why you end up with this situation with 24/25 year olds you are still not sure about.
You could argue of course that Blackburn & Bristol City bringing through some players is no different to what QPR have done in recent years going back to Manning, Eze, Chair, Dieng etc which was working well until we all got excited with a good end to the 20/21 season. I imagine they also have players in the squad who are not good enough but we don't follow them closely enough to know about them. | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 12:03 - Mar 9 with 2204 views | gazza1 |
| Charlie Owens on 11:42 - Mar 9 by Northernr |
22, 21, 22, 20. I'm not talking about them, though it is going to be decision time on them soon.
I'm talking about these players that get to 23-24-25-26 and are kept on here, Owens has had several contract extensions. They're not good enough, never going to be good enough, not even making our bench at the moment in this situation so not exactly 'backing up the first team', never impress out on loan... I don't get it, what are we doing?
This is the Dillon Barnes thing again, another 25-26 year old we just had hanging around, as it turned out not even in the 25 man squad so we could go and get Westwood in.
Are we skint or not skint? |
I'd put it even lower Norf.....if they haven't seen first team action (at some level) in their late teens then most(99%) will not make it into the professional game at Championship level.
The problem or fear is that if someone in their 20's then makes Championship level the person responsible for releasing will be 'in the limelight' whatever that means.
These players that we have out on loan and the ones you mention shodipo, Ham, etc have zero chance and a complete waste of time and money. [Post edited 9 Mar 2023 12:05]
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| Charlie Owens on 12:11 - Mar 9 with 2181 views | Northernr |
| Charlie Owens on 11:47 - Mar 9 by daveB |
possibly and I'm not saying we're right to keep these players, I'd have released the ones mentioned a few years back but all clubs have these kind of players to fill the squad with as they are probably a lot cheaper than buying or loaning from elsewhere.
A lot of it feels political so Les and co can say when selling the club to young kids ands their parents that we've had this number of players come from the academy into the first team, it's something that looks good on paper. Maybe we need a certain number of home grown players in the squad
I'm just a bit tired of all the negativity at the moment, it's non stop. Of course everyone (including me) is right to moan about the first team but it's been relentless this season over some real minor things. From Sinclair Armstrong or someone who looked like him getting stick for going to Burger King or anaylysing a players character based on a facial expression from a 2 second video clip and now giving a one year deal to Charlie Owens to see if he can recover from his injury. I think I need a holiday [Post edited 9 Mar 2023 11:48]
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Well I agree with you that we're in one of those periods where Everything Is Wrong, and like you say stuff like Sinclair Armstrong going to Burger King or whatever is just the sort of thing that becomes a big deal when the first team isn't getting results and it is draining.
But, on this point, again the problem is black and white in the accounts. Wage bill £27m, staff at the club just shy of 200, staff and players on the football side more than 130, these numbers are 40 higher than Millwall's numbers. We need to hack £5.5m off it this season, and another £10m next. I would suggest having people like Owens, Alfa, Nico hanging around into their mid 20s, never going to make it, might be an easy place to start economising.
At the moment we are missing Laird, Balogun, JCS, Paal, Chair, Amos, Willock, Dykes, Roberts. It's basically a full team. It's basically out first choice team. If you are 24-25-26, and you're not even making the bench, not even the bench, during this period, then I'm sorry yours is a lifestyle we can no longer afford to support, just as it was fcking stupid last season that we were bringing goalkeepers out of retirement while Dillon Barnes had been earning three years of money from us. | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 12:15 - Mar 9 with 2147 views | ed_83 |
| Charlie Owens on 10:15 - Mar 9 by Northernr |
I don't really understand what we're getting out of having all these mid 20s players who obviously aren't good enough hanging around earning, even if it's not earning very much. Nico is obviously the worst example, 26 now FFS, but Owens is 25, the official site is wishing Ody Alfa a happy 24th birthday today - played for Billericay, Maidenhead, Aldershot, Dartford and Chelmsford on loan. Shodipo is 25. What are we doing? Seriously, what are we doing? |
Completely agree with this. Obviously you need to give players time to develop, but if they aren't ready to at least be around the first team squad and filling spots on the bench after a couple of loan spells - as we did with Lumley, Dieng, Chair, Eze, Kakay - then we need to pay up their contracts and move them on.
At times, it feels like our senior squad is being organised for the benefit of the youth team, rather than the reverse. | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 12:15 - Mar 9 with 2141 views | gazza1 |
| Charlie Owens on 12:11 - Mar 9 by Northernr |
Well I agree with you that we're in one of those periods where Everything Is Wrong, and like you say stuff like Sinclair Armstrong going to Burger King or whatever is just the sort of thing that becomes a big deal when the first team isn't getting results and it is draining.
But, on this point, again the problem is black and white in the accounts. Wage bill £27m, staff at the club just shy of 200, staff and players on the football side more than 130, these numbers are 40 higher than Millwall's numbers. We need to hack £5.5m off it this season, and another £10m next. I would suggest having people like Owens, Alfa, Nico hanging around into their mid 20s, never going to make it, might be an easy place to start economising.
At the moment we are missing Laird, Balogun, JCS, Paal, Chair, Amos, Willock, Dykes, Roberts. It's basically a full team. It's basically out first choice team. If you are 24-25-26, and you're not even making the bench, not even the bench, during this period, then I'm sorry yours is a lifestyle we can no longer afford to support, just as it was fcking stupid last season that we were bringing goalkeepers out of retirement while Dillon Barnes had been earning three years of money from us. |
agreed  | | | |
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| Charlie Owens on 12:41 - Mar 9 with 2054 views | ThGrimRanger |
assume the thinking is to keep them on the books just in case the next manager, who'll be along very shortly, fancies them |  |
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| Charlie Owens on 12:44 - Mar 9 with 2033 views | Match82 |
| Charlie Owens on 11:42 - Mar 9 by Northernr |
22, 21, 22, 20. I'm not talking about them, though it is going to be decision time on them soon.
I'm talking about these players that get to 23-24-25-26 and are kept on here, Owens has had several contract extensions. They're not good enough, never going to be good enough, not even making our bench at the moment in this situation so not exactly 'backing up the first team', never impress out on loan... I don't get it, what are we doing?
This is the Dillon Barnes thing again, another 25-26 year old we just had hanging around, as it turned out not even in the 25 man squad so we could go and get Westwood in.
Are we skint or not skint? |
I agree with you in general here and I know it's different with goalkeepers...but wasn't Dieng out on loan to about his 5th different club when he was 24 or 25?
I guess I'm just hoping that Kelman is more like Dieing than he is like most of the other folks who we've been paying not to play for us for half a decade |  | | |
| Charlie Owens on 13:03 - Mar 9 with 1948 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Charlie Owens on 12:41 - Mar 9 by ThGrimRanger |
assume the thinking is to keep them on the books just in case the next manager, who'll be along very shortly, fancies them |
Haha this is a good point.
Perhaps no fcker has been around long enough to get rid. |  | | |
| Charlie Owens on 13:05 - Mar 9 with 1957 views | aston_hoop |
Ainsworth signed him on loan while Wycombe Manager. Didn't pick him but then its probably fair to assume he wasn't fit |  |
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| Charlie Owens on 13:18 - Mar 9 with 1904 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Charlie Owens on 11:12 - Mar 9 by daveB |
hasn't this always been the way at football clubs having back up players who are probably not good enough but you need them to fill the squad out. We've had tons over the years, Maurice Doyle was one in the 90's always around the squad but rarely played, The Graham brothers as well
A few years ago these kind of squad players at QPR were short term contracts from all around the world costing tons of money.
It's never black and white with these things, we were complaining recently that we released Jamal Lowe too early and are now having to pay big money to get him on loan when we had him in the first place. [Post edited 9 Mar 2023 11:12]
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I think this is all correct, Dave. It does look slightly off, though, when those players are in their mid-20's. Maybe we're guilty of judging on perception only, but 22 or 23 looks ok. 24 and 25 and you do wonder why they're still here. Or at least I do. |  |
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| Charlie Owens on 14:23 - Mar 9 with 1737 views | PinnerPaul |
| Charlie Owens on 12:00 - Mar 9 by daveB |
I'd certainly agree more of them should get a chance, we die not knowing with so many players. Masterson, Gubbins and Kellman are 3 that spring to mind at the moment and that is part of why you end up with this situation with 24/25 year olds you are still not sure about.
You could argue of course that Blackburn & Bristol City bringing through some players is no different to what QPR have done in recent years going back to Manning, Eze, Chair, Dieng etc which was working well until we all got excited with a good end to the 20/21 season. I imagine they also have players in the squad who are not good enough but we don't follow them closely enough to know about them. |
or indeed know how many 20 something players there are at other clubs not getting a sniff?
Not that if its the same number as us makes it right for us or them, but would be interesting to know if this is a QPR problem (as mostly everyone assumes mostly everything is) or a football problem - like the loan system for example.
Edit - Just read Clive's proof that Millwall, for example, have a lot less players than us. [Post edited 9 Mar 2023 14:27]
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| Charlie Owens on 14:29 - Mar 9 with 1727 views | Northernr |
| Charlie Owens on 14:23 - Mar 9 by PinnerPaul |
or indeed know how many 20 something players there are at other clubs not getting a sniff?
Not that if its the same number as us makes it right for us or them, but would be interesting to know if this is a QPR problem (as mostly everyone assumes mostly everything is) or a football problem - like the loan system for example.
Edit - Just read Clive's proof that Millwall, for example, have a lot less players than us. [Post edited 9 Mar 2023 14:27]
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As noted on another thread, Luton number of people similar, but wage bill £10m less.
I think there's a general assumption people like Nico and Owens earn peanuts that is, again, not packed up in the accounts, or in the car park at the training ground for that matter.
Millwall's staffing/player numbers at their last set of accounts FYI. They haven''t put theirs out this year yet, but at the last count they lost £13m on a wage bill of £20m.
Football team management 40
Administrative and ground staff 49
Players (including Academy) 53
––– –––
142
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 14:37 - Mar 9 with 1694 views | daveB |
| Charlie Owens on 12:11 - Mar 9 by Northernr |
Well I agree with you that we're in one of those periods where Everything Is Wrong, and like you say stuff like Sinclair Armstrong going to Burger King or whatever is just the sort of thing that becomes a big deal when the first team isn't getting results and it is draining.
But, on this point, again the problem is black and white in the accounts. Wage bill £27m, staff at the club just shy of 200, staff and players on the football side more than 130, these numbers are 40 higher than Millwall's numbers. We need to hack £5.5m off it this season, and another £10m next. I would suggest having people like Owens, Alfa, Nico hanging around into their mid 20s, never going to make it, might be an easy place to start economising.
At the moment we are missing Laird, Balogun, JCS, Paal, Chair, Amos, Willock, Dykes, Roberts. It's basically a full team. It's basically out first choice team. If you are 24-25-26, and you're not even making the bench, not even the bench, during this period, then I'm sorry yours is a lifestyle we can no longer afford to support, just as it was fcking stupid last season that we were bringing goalkeepers out of retirement while Dillon Barnes had been earning three years of money from us. |
aren't the players we're talking about all out on loan so can't play anyway?
I agree we should release these players but I don't think it's going to make a dent in our wage bill if we do. Spending half a million on Luke Amos who has hardly played for 3 years has caused more damage to the accounts than a few back up players who are not gonna make it. | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 14:44 - Mar 9 with 1653 views | PinnerPaul |
| Charlie Owens on 14:29 - Mar 9 by Northernr |
As noted on another thread, Luton number of people similar, but wage bill £10m less.
I think there's a general assumption people like Nico and Owens earn peanuts that is, again, not packed up in the accounts, or in the car park at the training ground for that matter.
Millwall's staffing/player numbers at their last set of accounts FYI. They haven''t put theirs out this year yet, but at the last count they lost £13m on a wage bill of £20m.
Football team management 40
Administrative and ground staff 49
Players (including Academy) 53
––– –––
142
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Thanks | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 14:59 - Mar 9 with 1627 views | 1JD |
A possible answer is that we added several more players to the books as we went down the so-called B team route. Originally deemed to be a mix of the best u21s (formerly u23s) and first-team fringe players, it was billed as the stepping stone to the first team.
However, it didn’t last long, as evidenced by the merger of the B team and u21 team this season (for some strange reason retaining the B team name, when it is the u21 team..).
I’ve often thought we keep players on too long. Probably hoping they come good or develop the required physique. I’m sure the club will be more ruthless going forwards as we need to cut costs. For starters, Bettache has already been released, Alfa is finally out of contract. And Owens will be released. | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 16:02 - Mar 9 with 1536 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Charlie Owens on 07:22 - Mar 9 by QPROslo |
Think he was considered a promising talent as a teenager. He represented N.Ireland at Under 19 and Under 21 level. but continental injury problems look to have ravished his career, only 10 professional appearances for us, Wycombe and Colchester on loan over 5 seasons. |
Sounds like we should have put him down long ago. Sadly, but long ago nonetheless. |  |
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| Charlie Owens on 17:32 - Mar 9 with 1408 views | baz_qpr |
| Charlie Owens on 12:44 - Mar 9 by Match82 |
I agree with you in general here and I know it's different with goalkeepers...but wasn't Dieng out on loan to about his 5th different club when he was 24 or 25?
I guess I'm just hoping that Kelman is more like Dieing than he is like most of the other folks who we've been paying not to play for us for half a decade |
Dieng was 25 when he made his debut for us but Goalies are a little different and he had been playing at a higher level on his loans.
I kind of agree if you've not made a 1st team appearance by 22/23 its unlikely you are going to and the club has to be little bit more ruthless as surely the pathways from 16's to 18's to B team are being blocked by these guys |  | | |
| Charlie Owens on 18:09 - Mar 9 with 1324 views | distortR |
I think some of you are being incredibly harsh.
Chris, Les, Paul and the team have seen these lads develop from callow youth into full grown men; they were there as Oddy got the keys for his first house; as Charlie picked up his first Range Rover; as Nico went from first choice Finland left back to the English non-league, and lower - they have been there, guiding their protegees, all the way.
If you just view these young men, human beings through the narrow lens of 'can they play football?', well, the loss is yours.
Today, I am Charlie Owens. I am Brian Croft. | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 21:57 - Mar 9 with 1124 views | derbyhoop |
Given the injuries you could forgive, almost, the retention of Owens. But he couldn't get a game for a struggling Colchester.
After the publication of the finances, QPR are going to have to be much more ruthless in writing off those who arent going to make it.
Owens, Alfa, Shodipo, probably Masterson, are going to be released this summer.
I'm sure there's a few more hanging around the B team as well. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Charlie Owens on 05:40 - Mar 10 with 1007 views | QPROslo |
| Charlie Owens on 21:57 - Mar 9 by derbyhoop |
Given the injuries you could forgive, almost, the retention of Owens. But he couldn't get a game for a struggling Colchester.
After the publication of the finances, QPR are going to have to be much more ruthless in writing off those who arent going to make it.
Owens, Alfa, Shodipo, probably Masterson, are going to be released this summer.
I'm sure there's a few more hanging around the B team as well. |
I believe Shodipo is out of contract in the summer. I thought he did ok for us when he played a bit early season, and seems to have got games for Lincoln this winter and others in League 1 before. So if we are relegated he should fit right in.....Come to that if he was still with us and fit he'd shirley have been a better option to get some ammunition in for our strikers than Albert is these days. | | | |
| Charlie Owens on 12:35 - Mar 10 with 808 views | derbyhoop |
| Charlie Owens on 05:40 - Mar 10 by QPROslo |
I believe Shodipo is out of contract in the summer. I thought he did ok for us when he played a bit early season, and seems to have got games for Lincoln this winter and others in League 1 before. So if we are relegated he should fit right in.....Come to that if he was still with us and fit he'd shirley have been a better option to get some ammunition in for our strikers than Albert is these days. |
I think you are correct about Mide.
He will/should be released, on a free, and while he's not costing a lot, its been obvious for some time he isn't up to Championship standard.
The same applies to the others I mentioned. And several others, IMHO. | |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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