| Cifuentes on Leeds on 14:37 - Apr 29 with 2544 views | WadR |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 11:27 - Apr 29 by Northernr |
He's been super pragmatic too. All his philosophy and talk when he came in was about Cruyff-style football, and yet here we are with Dunne at right back and Colback and Field in midfield. I'm interested to know how much that's him working with what he's got (i.e. expect some major changes this summer) and how much this is his "I've had to learn about the Championship" comment the other week (i.e. if you don't like this philosophy I have others).
I think you have to have a philosophy and ideal that you're aiming for that underlines everything you do re-recruitment, tactics, style of play etc. But when you become so tightly bound to it you'd rather risk losing the game than abandon it (i.e. Russell Martin) it becomes more of a hinderance than a help. I've loved his mix of ideal and pragmatism so far. |
Totally agree.
I remember that Rotherham away game and it was Paal inverting from full back into central midfield, all short passes out from the back, higher pressing and a far more Cruyff-lite football. Now, as you say, it's a lofted ball to our CB playing right back that is our main outlet from our goalkicks and a very disciplined out of possession defensive shape.
He's been really good at making those footballing philosophy concessions this season and learning on the job. I'm also really interested to see how much he moves the dial for next season - if it'll be closer to Hammarby Marti or a continuation of the last 3 months but you'd think Dunne has earned the right to be our starting right back next season, wouldn't you? |  | |  |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 14:43 - Apr 29 with 2502 views | Northernr |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 14:37 - Apr 29 by WadR |
Totally agree.
I remember that Rotherham away game and it was Paal inverting from full back into central midfield, all short passes out from the back, higher pressing and a far more Cruyff-lite football. Now, as you say, it's a lofted ball to our CB playing right back that is our main outlet from our goalkicks and a very disciplined out of possession defensive shape.
He's been really good at making those footballing philosophy concessions this season and learning on the job. I'm also really interested to see how much he moves the dial for next season - if it'll be closer to Hammarby Marti or a continuation of the last 3 months but you'd think Dunne has earned the right to be our starting right back next season, wouldn't you? |
But if you have a goalkeeper who can play out, the need for that outlet in the air there is reduced. |  | | |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 14:49 - Apr 29 with 2436 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 11:27 - Apr 29 by Northernr |
He's been super pragmatic too. All his philosophy and talk when he came in was about Cruyff-style football, and yet here we are with Dunne at right back and Colback and Field in midfield. I'm interested to know how much that's him working with what he's got (i.e. expect some major changes this summer) and how much this is his "I've had to learn about the Championship" comment the other week (i.e. if you don't like this philosophy I have others).
I think you have to have a philosophy and ideal that you're aiming for that underlines everything you do re-recruitment, tactics, style of play etc. But when you become so tightly bound to it you'd rather risk losing the game than abandon it (i.e. Russell Martin) it becomes more of a hinderance than a help. I've loved his mix of ideal and pragmatism so far. |
I kind of agree as thought he was maybe too much a purist for too long and not sure whether his hand was forced by injuries to Cannon, Frey and even my man Hadeyn at very opportune times.
I know I'll get ridiculed in the current overwhelming relief and euphoria but times I wasn't really sure he was going to learn fast enough on the job.
I thought I'd hold off posting on this till we were safe as one more Quarter Back Monday and Northern would have consigned me to the back bar in The Goldhawk on a cold winters evening (think Siberian Gulag cold for those who'd never frequented) | | | |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 14:56 - Apr 29 with 2409 views | Northernr |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 14:49 - Apr 29 by ParkRoyalR |
I kind of agree as thought he was maybe too much a purist for too long and not sure whether his hand was forced by injuries to Cannon, Frey and even my man Hadeyn at very opportune times.
I know I'll get ridiculed in the current overwhelming relief and euphoria but times I wasn't really sure he was going to learn fast enough on the job.
I thought I'd hold off posting on this till we were safe as one more Quarter Back Monday and Northern would have consigned me to the back bar in The Goldhawk on a cold winters evening (think Siberian Gulag cold for those who'd never frequented) |
Look at the state we were in when he took over. We've stayed up with a game to spare, winning at Leicester, beating Leeds 4-0. If you'd told me he'd do that I'd have laughed at you, frankly. We'd just lost 6 games in a row, won 2 of 14, we were fcking awful.
He's done magnificently. It's never going to be all perfect all the way through, he's learning a new league, he's learning about the new squad of players he's inherited. There were always going to be things he tried (Kelman v Plymouth, taking off a midfielder to try and pack the defence while leading at Sheff Wed) that would go wrong and he wouldn't do them again.
Overall he's done brilliantly. Stayed up, game to spare, with no strikers, and a poor goalkeeper. It's incredible really.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 15:07 - Apr 29 with 2335 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 12:05 - Apr 29 by ngbqpr |
Eze sale or no Eze sale, I can't see us spending an awful lot, but the sheer number of out of contract players will still mean a very different squad come August.
Particularly interesting will be whether he reverts to the 433 he said on arrival that he favoured; or sticks with the 4231 we've used for some time now. |
I think we've been playing 433 for a good while now, specifically a Cryuffian 433, where the 6 is a central defensive pivot, the 8 is slightly ahead to the left and the 10 is slightly further again to the right.
Most of our heat maps have us playing that way, though we do change shape when attacking, which is fascinating as well.
On your overall point, and on Clive's point, I agree completely - the interessting thing is to what extent he blends idealism and pragmatism. It's been a good mix so far. |  |
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 15:15 - Apr 29 with 2279 views | nix |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 14:56 - Apr 29 by Northernr |
Look at the state we were in when he took over. We've stayed up with a game to spare, winning at Leicester, beating Leeds 4-0. If you'd told me he'd do that I'd have laughed at you, frankly. We'd just lost 6 games in a row, won 2 of 14, we were fcking awful.
He's done magnificently. It's never going to be all perfect all the way through, he's learning a new league, he's learning about the new squad of players he's inherited. There were always going to be things he tried (Kelman v Plymouth, taking off a midfielder to try and pack the defence while leading at Sheff Wed) that would go wrong and he wouldn't do them again.
Overall he's done brilliantly. Stayed up, game to spare, with no strikers, and a poor goalkeeper. It's incredible really.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Another thing he needs to turn around at some point is what you've alluded to, the issue of the three matches in a week loss. Three out of the four losses since things really picked up in a win in January against Millwall have been the third match in a three-match week and the other loss was the middle match in a three-match week.
I'm sure if we have a stronger squad it will improve his abiity to rotate players like Paal, Field and Cook who otherwise don't miss a minute: look how much Paal bounced back after missing a game recently.
The luxury of time to work on things should make all the difference. When he came in I was thinking he needs to improve:
Defending at set pieces
Attacking at set pieces
Not losing the ball from our throw-ins
Increasing our shot to goal conversion rate
Being more strategic in playing to the oppositions's strengths and weaknesses
Improving our pressing
Increasing our possession rates
Improving passing accuracy
Overhauling team morale, etc, etc.
And that's just a few things I can think of. I'm sure there are tons of other things that he can improve over the summer with the luxury of time and having already won over the players. |  | | |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 15:27 - Apr 29 with 2197 views | Northernr |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 15:15 - Apr 29 by nix |
Another thing he needs to turn around at some point is what you've alluded to, the issue of the three matches in a week loss. Three out of the four losses since things really picked up in a win in January against Millwall have been the third match in a three-match week and the other loss was the middle match in a three-match week.
I'm sure if we have a stronger squad it will improve his abiity to rotate players like Paal, Field and Cook who otherwise don't miss a minute: look how much Paal bounced back after missing a game recently.
The luxury of time to work on things should make all the difference. When he came in I was thinking he needs to improve:
Defending at set pieces
Attacking at set pieces
Not losing the ball from our throw-ins
Increasing our shot to goal conversion rate
Being more strategic in playing to the oppositions's strengths and weaknesses
Improving our pressing
Increasing our possession rates
Improving passing accuracy
Overhauling team morale, etc, etc.
And that's just a few things I can think of. I'm sure there are tons of other things that he can improve over the summer with the luxury of time and having already won over the players. |
The three game week thing is a problem for the whole league, and will always be an issue if you're running a small squad (which the non parachute payment clubs have to do).
The stats the Sheff Wed analytics account came up with suggested when teams play away fatigued (playing away after a game within the last 3/4 days), the away win ratio over the season drops by 15% vs baseline. When it's a 'double away' - that means they are playing 2 away games within 4 days - the away win ratio on these games drops again below 'away fatigued'.
Norwich is the most stark example of these. They've lost 14 games overall this season, 13 of them were in a three game week and 10 of them were when they were playing 'away fatigued'.
So that'll take some fixing without a bigger squad. | | | |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 15:28 - Apr 29 with 2176 views | Malintabuk |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 15:15 - Apr 29 by nix |
Another thing he needs to turn around at some point is what you've alluded to, the issue of the three matches in a week loss. Three out of the four losses since things really picked up in a win in January against Millwall have been the third match in a three-match week and the other loss was the middle match in a three-match week.
I'm sure if we have a stronger squad it will improve his abiity to rotate players like Paal, Field and Cook who otherwise don't miss a minute: look how much Paal bounced back after missing a game recently.
The luxury of time to work on things should make all the difference. When he came in I was thinking he needs to improve:
Defending at set pieces
Attacking at set pieces
Not losing the ball from our throw-ins
Increasing our shot to goal conversion rate
Being more strategic in playing to the oppositions's strengths and weaknesses
Improving our pressing
Increasing our possession rates
Improving passing accuracy
Overhauling team morale, etc, etc.
And that's just a few things I can think of. I'm sure there are tons of other things that he can improve over the summer with the luxury of time and having already won over the players. |
Think the most poignant part of your post was the winning over of the players .
In October 2023 were top of the league, and playing some nice football. No matter what we feel about Beale for 2 months he had us playing. We can argue the fact that Beale left due to him being "found out" or not, but there is no denying him leaving nearly destroyed our club
I still feel Critchley may have been the right man at the wrong time. Ainsworth unfortunately was a basket case and the Haka video summed up the mood of the players.
Cifuentes has come in and changed the mood entirely. He has got decent players wanting to play again, and decent players will always be able to win matches.
We are lacking in attack and that as to be addressed this summer. But I may be in a minority here but I wouldn't lose much sleep if Bego stays another season. He made mistakes, but I still think he can do a job in this league with am organised defence.
Marti is the breath of fresh air this club as been looking for 2 years now [Post edited 29 Apr 15:33]
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 16:55 - Apr 29 with 2032 views | nix |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 15:27 - Apr 29 by Northernr |
The three game week thing is a problem for the whole league, and will always be an issue if you're running a small squad (which the non parachute payment clubs have to do).
The stats the Sheff Wed analytics account came up with suggested when teams play away fatigued (playing away after a game within the last 3/4 days), the away win ratio over the season drops by 15% vs baseline. When it's a 'double away' - that means they are playing 2 away games within 4 days - the away win ratio on these games drops again below 'away fatigued'.
Norwich is the most stark example of these. They've lost 14 games overall this season, 13 of them were in a three game week and 10 of them were when they were playing 'away fatigued'.
So that'll take some fixing without a bigger squad. |
Wow, that's telling re Norwich. And you'd have thought they have greater strength in depth than we do. | | | |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 17:45 - Apr 29 with 1909 views | kensalriser |
Not one person has mentioned (that I've seen) the very obvious point that Leeds had a big game on the preceding Monday while we had two additional days' rest. There was a definite look to their all round play that was reminiscent of our tired performances at the end of a three -game week. |  |
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 18:06 - Apr 29 with 1853 views | fraserc |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 17:45 - Apr 29 by kensalriser |
Not one person has mentioned (that I've seen) the very obvious point that Leeds had a big game on the preceding Monday while we had two additional days' rest. There was a definite look to their all round play that was reminiscent of our tired performances at the end of a three -game week. |
Just coming to say that - I think I mentioned it on the match thread beforehand as it was the one thing giving me confidence. Having consumed a lot of Leeds content over the last couple of days (feed me those salty tears!) a couple of their supporters pointed out other mitigating factors, including its a young squad that might not have necessarily come across a bear-pit like a tight Loftus Road on a Friday night.
Also, I think Leeds were expecting us to sit back and attack on the counter like so many others have done with a low block, but we took the game to them. And, of course, we are a lowly team fighting relegation. Why can't we just roll over and die?
After reading Clive's article on Marti's arrival back in October, I guess we can say the finger puppets worked:
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/61182/right-man.-r [Post edited 29 Apr 18:08]
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 19:00 - Apr 29 with 1717 views | ngbqpr |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 18:06 - Apr 29 by fraserc |
Just coming to say that - I think I mentioned it on the match thread beforehand as it was the one thing giving me confidence. Having consumed a lot of Leeds content over the last couple of days (feed me those salty tears!) a couple of their supporters pointed out other mitigating factors, including its a young squad that might not have necessarily come across a bear-pit like a tight Loftus Road on a Friday night.
Also, I think Leeds were expecting us to sit back and attack on the counter like so many others have done with a low block, but we took the game to them. And, of course, we are a lowly team fighting relegation. Why can't we just roll over and die?
After reading Clive's article on Marti's arrival back in October, I guess we can say the finger puppets worked:
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/61182/right-man.-r [Post edited 29 Apr 18:08]
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Thanks for digging out...fascinating re-read! |  |
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 20:00 - Apr 29 with 1598 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 19:00 - Apr 29 by ngbqpr |
Thanks for digging out...fascinating re-read! |
Agree, fascinating to re-read that.
This line:
‘ Basically, take our game at West Brom last Tuesday and ask everybody involved in it to do the exact opposite of everything they just did.’
I mean, that is EXACTLY what we did do when we next played WBA. Leeds players who remember playing against us just before he came can be forgiven for having their minds blown at what faced them a few months later, with only one new signing in the first XI.
My only fear is him leaving. As others have said, he’s the real thing. |  |
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 20:27 - Apr 29 with 1522 views | Hugey |
Absolutely raving about him on Not the top 20 podcast today:
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 20:35 - Apr 29 with 1490 views | VancouverHoop |
I've wondered about him being tempted away too.
There's no way of knowing of course but my guess is he'll feel his job isn't done here yet. He doesn't strike me, at least, as someone who'll jump at the first big offer. Especially as he's won the credibility of our players, our fans, and — I imagine — the suits in the front office. That's worth a ton of goodwill which a smart manager realises money can't buy. Step one is done: we're still a Championship team. Step two: we can be be a playoff team... at the very least. He'll want to use that banked goodwill to prove it. | | | |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 20:45 - Apr 29 with 1442 views | Pdog |
He has earned the right for a free swing at next season on his terms with buy-in from all the club. For a young manager with something to prove that is gold, barring some outlandish out of character demands or boardroom bust-up i just don't see him going anywhere. He has earned the position to now mold his team, this is what he worked for. [Post edited 29 Apr 21:01]
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 16:10 - Apr 30 with 1148 views | aston_hoop |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 06:28 - Apr 27 by JamesB1979 |
We can look forward to Clive’s interview with Marti now! |
I'm looking forward to that interview with a level of excitement matched in size only by my level of dread awaiting the Ainsworth one last year!
Any chance of a Nourry Patreon? Or is that not possible? |  |
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| Cifuentes on Leeds on 16:23 - Apr 30 with 1105 views | Northernr |
| Cifuentes on Leeds on 16:10 - Apr 30 by aston_hoop |
I'm looking forward to that interview with a level of excitement matched in size only by my level of dread awaiting the Ainsworth one last year!
Any chance of a Nourry Patreon? Or is that not possible? |
We'll hopefully get Nourry at some point. I'm obviously prioritising the annual summer catch up with the manager atm. I think the media department get absolutely besieged with interview requests from the various podcasts etc these days so I want to keep my powder dry and make sure I get the summer one. | | | |
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