| (No subject) (n/t) on 07:31 - Jun 18 with 1309 views | daveB |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 00:05 - Jun 18 by Ned_Kennedys |
Some people on this thread seem prepared to die on that hill for Southgate no matter what: it’s a bit odd IMO.
Let’s hope he finally works out how to see the job through this tournament. [Post edited 18 Jun 0:08]
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I just think he's done a pretty good job over the last 6 years and doesn't deserve some of the stick he gets. I'm not convinced we'll win this tournaments for a number of reasons including there are better teams here than us but he deserves a lot more respect than he gets. When he goes after this I don't see an obvious English candidate to take over |  | |  |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:13 - Jun 18 with 1245 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 07:31 - Jun 18 by daveB |
I just think he's done a pretty good job over the last 6 years and doesn't deserve some of the stick he gets. I'm not convinced we'll win this tournaments for a number of reasons including there are better teams here than us but he deserves a lot more respect than he gets. When he goes after this I don't see an obvious English candidate to take over |
Same.
This is a tired old opinion but here goes...
It doesn't seem to matter that he is the only living England manager who got us to a final, that he has the best win % of any England manager except Capello, or that he has the most tournament wins of ANY manager.
There is always a 'Maguire', 'Henderson' or 'TAA in midfield' issue that seems to negates all that with people even when we win (ugly or otherwise). It's usually in hindsight and sometimes even after a victory.
Is he perfect? No.
The anti GS movement just seems really entitled to me, and I think comes from opposition to the BLM thing that the media slaughtered him for and a childish emotional response to the Italy final, which granted was heartbreaking, but ultimately came down to playing a really experienced really talented team that was unbeaten in 50 or something. Hardly a knockout loss to Iceland.
I say that, because it can't be the numbers. [Post edited 18 Jun 8:21]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:21 - Jun 18 with 1211 views | JamesB1979 |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:13 - Jun 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Same.
This is a tired old opinion but here goes...
It doesn't seem to matter that he is the only living England manager who got us to a final, that he has the best win % of any England manager except Capello, or that he has the most tournament wins of ANY manager.
There is always a 'Maguire', 'Henderson' or 'TAA in midfield' issue that seems to negates all that with people even when we win (ugly or otherwise). It's usually in hindsight and sometimes even after a victory.
Is he perfect? No.
The anti GS movement just seems really entitled to me, and I think comes from opposition to the BLM thing that the media slaughtered him for and a childish emotional response to the Italy final, which granted was heartbreaking, but ultimately came down to playing a really experienced really talented team that was unbeaten in 50 or something. Hardly a knockout loss to Iceland.
I say that, because it can't be the numbers. [Post edited 18 Jun 8:21]
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Well I can only speak for myself. I think he has done a great job, particularly at creating a club-like mentality in the England set-up. But I also think he’s got a talented squad like none before him. Poor old Graham Taylor would love to have had a chance with half the talent he has. That said, Gareth’s done well but no harm in debating how we can improve and what he should do better. I want us to win the Euros. I don’t think TAA in midfield is going to achieve that. But then I also didn’t think Jimmy Dunne should play right back….look how they turned out. Why do we have to bring politics into it? I’m trying to get away from all of that! |  | | |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 08:22 - Jun 18 with 1210 views | hubble |
I thought France looked pretty impressive first half last night, but like England, they faded in the second and were often out-fought and out-thought by Austria, who were unlucky... particularly when that blatant corner wasn't given and France went on to get that OG from the next phase of play.
I suppose you could level similar accusations at Didier Deschamps as Southgate - they certainly do in France, where they say he plays too safe and defensively... the only difference being that Deschamps has taken France to three finals, winning the world cup in the process.
And then you have the fact that the 'great' Belgian side (they always seem to blow it in finals) lost to Slovakia.
What can we conclude from all this? Not much really. This is international football; it doesn't mirror club football, there are other factors, and, well.... who knows? I think England will improve, without a doubt. Be interesting to see our starting line-up in the next game. |  |
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 08:23 - Jun 18 with 1202 views | FDC |
I literally never watch premiership football, so don't know half the players at this point or have a preconception of TAA midfield role. But it didn't work on Sunday, and that area looks to be a weakness for sure.
I did end the game thinking Gallagher might be a better partner to Rice against stronger opposition.
It was quite noticeable how one sided we were in terms of attacking threat too, Tripper and Foden didn't work, potentially because Trippier lacks the legs to get up the pitch and Foden wants to come inside. He looked lost to me, unsure of where to be or what his role was. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:27 - Jun 18 with 1184 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:21 - Jun 18 by JamesB1979 |
Well I can only speak for myself. I think he has done a great job, particularly at creating a club-like mentality in the England set-up. But I also think he’s got a talented squad like none before him. Poor old Graham Taylor would love to have had a chance with half the talent he has. That said, Gareth’s done well but no harm in debating how we can improve and what he should do better. I want us to win the Euros. I don’t think TAA in midfield is going to achieve that. But then I also didn’t think Jimmy Dunne should play right back….look how they turned out. Why do we have to bring politics into it? I’m trying to get away from all of that! |
I don't agree he has a talented squad like none before (2002 was the pinnacle IMO), but even if I did, he has backed it up with a better record than none before him.
The politics thing isn't something I can prove, just a hunch based on this:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/how-sport-became-a-vehicle-for-far-rig | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:27 - Jun 18 with 1182 views | daveB |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:21 - Jun 18 by JamesB1979 |
Well I can only speak for myself. I think he has done a great job, particularly at creating a club-like mentality in the England set-up. But I also think he’s got a talented squad like none before him. Poor old Graham Taylor would love to have had a chance with half the talent he has. That said, Gareth’s done well but no harm in debating how we can improve and what he should do better. I want us to win the Euros. I don’t think TAA in midfield is going to achieve that. But then I also didn’t think Jimmy Dunne should play right back….look how they turned out. Why do we have to bring politics into it? I’m trying to get away from all of that! |
England squads always have lots of talent. Graham Taylor had likes of Gazza, Paul Ince, Waddle, Barnes, Shearer, Lineker etc
The 2004 squad for me is better than this current one and lost to the first good team they played. I imagine the current crop will do the same
You look at club sides like Man City, brilliant team, brilliant manager but regularly lose in the champions League when they face a side as good as them [Post edited 18 Jun 8:29]
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 08:33 - Jun 18 with 1157 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 22:03 - Jun 17 by SK_hoops |
Literally any manager on the planet would have got us to the semis and final due to the teams we played. |
you really believe that? I bet Ainsworth wouldn't have done so.
So you will never be happy then. If we win this tournament, it will be "easy group" "so lucky that xxx got knocked out so we only had to play xxx"
What a miserable way of looking at things. Only in England. We only like people who are successful once they die. | | | |
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 08:37 - Jun 18 with 1140 views | FDC |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:32 - Jun 17 by Antti_Heinola |
Weeelllll, I wonder if Bellingham should drop deeper. That's a problem position, and he can play there, and he'll still get up to support the forwards. Then you can play Foden in the middle and Gordon or Eze on the left. Bellingham played quite deep a lot of the time anyway, I don't think it would have an enormous effect on his game. |
Yeah this makes sense to me | | | |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 08:43 - Jun 18 with 1123 views | TheChef |
Yes Bellingham playing with Rice is the answer, he has the engine and ability to cover and break from deep as well, allowing you more attacking options in the three behind Kane. Southgate won't do it though because he is too cautious.
Oh well if we win every game 1-0 who cares. Only we might all be nervous wrecks at the end of it  |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:52 - Jun 18 with 1110 views | JamesB1979 |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:27 - Jun 18 by daveB |
England squads always have lots of talent. Graham Taylor had likes of Gazza, Paul Ince, Waddle, Barnes, Shearer, Lineker etc
The 2004 squad for me is better than this current one and lost to the first good team they played. I imagine the current crop will do the same
You look at club sides like Man City, brilliant team, brilliant manager but regularly lose in the champions League when they face a side as good as them [Post edited 18 Jun 8:29]
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That’s very unfair on Taylor. Lineker and Waddle were at the end of their careers. They were nothing like at the level under Bobby. More importantly, Gazza was injured for 1992 euros and big Holland away qualifier. Barnes did his Achilles before 92 euros so missed that and for my mind was never the same after that.
2004 was great but we lost Rooney when 1-0 up. Like losing Bellingham at that stage. [Post edited 18 Jun 8:56]
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 09:05 - Jun 18 with 1089 views | 1JD |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 23:41 - Jun 17 by daveB |
It's not like he's playing Gary Neville in central midfield. Trent is a brilliant passer of the ball, good at set pieces and has played there for club and country before. When he wasn't playing in midfield you had pundits all the time saying Southgate should try that why doesn't he, now he's doing it the same people are saying why is he doing that.
With no real obvious partner for Rice it's not a mad idea to try this, personally I'd rather see this than Henderson or Phillips |
Adam Wharton is what this team is crying out for as the deep lying number 6 playmaker.
If he is prepared to play Mainoo who is the same age, then I see no reason why Wharton shouldn’t also. Would transform the side
On TAA the idea that he can pass so he fits there is a bit bonkers - he’s good at long raking passes and that’s about it, not the short ones, or receiving the ball in tight spaces, or a lot of things you need to play CM effectively. The angles are completely different. Never a CM [Post edited 18 Jun 9:08]
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 09:06 - Jun 18 with 1071 views | TheChef |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 09:05 - Jun 18 by 1JD |
Adam Wharton is what this team is crying out for as the deep lying number 6 playmaker.
If he is prepared to play Mainoo who is the same age, then I see no reason why Wharton shouldn’t also. Would transform the side
On TAA the idea that he can pass so he fits there is a bit bonkers - he’s good at long raking passes and that’s about it, not the short ones, or receiving the ball in tight spaces, or a lot of things you need to play CM effectively. The angles are completely different. Never a CM [Post edited 18 Jun 9:08]
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Yeah would love to see Wharton starting but that won't happen either. | |
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 09:08 - Jun 18 with 1060 views | SK_hoops |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 08:33 - Jun 18 by GaryBannister86 |
you really believe that? I bet Ainsworth wouldn't have done so.
So you will never be happy then. If we win this tournament, it will be "easy group" "so lucky that xxx got knocked out so we only had to play xxx"
What a miserable way of looking at things. Only in England. We only like people who are successful once they die. |
I will be happy if we win. Ecstatic. Will also have meant we'd have beaten a decent team. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:16 - Jun 18 with 900 views | CamberleyR |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:52 - Jun 18 by JamesB1979 |
That’s very unfair on Taylor. Lineker and Waddle were at the end of their careers. They were nothing like at the level under Bobby. More importantly, Gazza was injured for 1992 euros and big Holland away qualifier. Barnes did his Achilles before 92 euros so missed that and for my mind was never the same after that.
2004 was great but we lost Rooney when 1-0 up. Like losing Bellingham at that stage. [Post edited 18 Jun 8:56]
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Shearer was also injured for the vast majority of the 1994 WC qualification. Played the first two matches in the autumn of '92 against Norway and Turkey then did his ACL playing for Blackburn and didn't return until the final game in Rotterdam. [Post edited 18 Jun 10:17]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:23 - Jun 18 with 772 views | Ned_Kennedys |
So you’re implying that anyone who thinks Southgate is an average manager is linked to the alt right movement and don’t like him due to his support for Black Lives Matter.
You’ve got a track record for writing utter garbage on here but this is a new level even for you. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:36 - Jun 18 with 729 views | SheffieldHoop |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:23 - Jun 18 by Ned_Kennedys |
So you’re implying that anyone who thinks Southgate is an average manager is linked to the alt right movement and don’t like him due to his support for Black Lives Matter.
You’ve got a track record for writing utter garbage on here but this is a new level even for you. |
The part I find most astonishing is not Baz randomly posting it on here, which is inevitable....But that 9 (NINE!!!) academics from various universities (All with the same point of view, obv) can write that whole piece, without conceding that the conspiracy theorists got quite a lot right about the BLM thing. In true BBC Verify style - They focus only on the bits they want you to. Apparently "Anti White Bias" (Formerly known as racism, before the academics had their say and decided it was impossible to be racist against white people) is a conspiracy theory. Doesn't happen. Those jobs advertised that exclude white applicants are a good thing, actually. If you feel it isn't fair that you can't get a job because you're from the wrong ethnic group, the problem can't be racism, it must be you.
Remarkable. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:36 - Jun 18 with 730 views | daveB |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:52 - Jun 18 by JamesB1979 |
That’s very unfair on Taylor. Lineker and Waddle were at the end of their careers. They were nothing like at the level under Bobby. More importantly, Gazza was injured for 1992 euros and big Holland away qualifier. Barnes did his Achilles before 92 euros so missed that and for my mind was never the same after that.
2004 was great but we lost Rooney when 1-0 up. Like losing Bellingham at that stage. [Post edited 18 Jun 8:56]
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He still had good players, good enough to qualify at least | | | |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:39 - Jun 18 with 725 views | daveB |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 08:43 - Jun 18 by TheChef |
Yes Bellingham playing with Rice is the answer, he has the engine and ability to cover and break from deep as well, allowing you more attacking options in the three behind Kane. Southgate won't do it though because he is too cautious.
Oh well if we win every game 1-0 who cares. Only we might all be nervous wrecks at the end of it |
I'm not sure a team with a starting 11 featuring Saka, Kane, Bellingham, TAA and Foden can be deemed cautious. There isn't a defensive player in that midfield, even Rice wants to get forward
Also is caution a bad thing? Do we want to go full Kevin Keegan. Even Man City play some games with 4 centre halves and 2 holding midfield players | | | |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:51 - Jun 18 with 681 views | Juzzie |
12 mins or so into the France game last night the commentators mentioned that Deschamps needed to unleash the team more. Are Manager's holding back players these days?? Scared to lose rather than go for the win?? |  | | |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 12:53 - Jun 18 with 583 views | daveB |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:51 - Jun 18 by Juzzie |
12 mins or so into the France game last night the commentators mentioned that Deschamps needed to unleash the team more. Are Manager's holding back players these days?? Scared to lose rather than go for the win?? |
I just think commentators/pundits/fans want to see all out attack when thats not really feasible. The French team have a great balance to them between unreal flair and pace up front and being a really tough team to beat
When you look at all teams at international level, there isn't really anyone playing this mythical all out attack | | | |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:10 - Jun 18 with 535 views | TheChef |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:39 - Jun 18 by daveB |
I'm not sure a team with a starting 11 featuring Saka, Kane, Bellingham, TAA and Foden can be deemed cautious. There isn't a defensive player in that midfield, even Rice wants to get forward
Also is caution a bad thing? Do we want to go full Kevin Keegan. Even Man City play some games with 4 centre halves and 2 holding midfield players |
Well no but central midfield isn't the best position for TAA at least with this squad of players.
Anyway it's tournament football so I can kind of appreciate Southgate's approach but I find it frustrating given the attacking riches we have.
I just miss the knockabout silliness of the Championship. | |
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:37 - Jun 18 with 479 views | kensalriser |
I don't know if there's any way to test this objectively, but it seems to me that the weaker teams are a bit better than they used to be. There just aren't any really crap teams in the tournament - nearly every team has players from the major European top divisions, so every game is going to have its challenges (OK I know, Scotland, but they still have some top division players). |  |
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:41 - Jun 18 with 461 views | TheChef |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:37 - Jun 18 by kensalriser |
I don't know if there's any way to test this objectively, but it seems to me that the weaker teams are a bit better than they used to be. There just aren't any really crap teams in the tournament - nearly every team has players from the major European top divisions, so every game is going to have its challenges (OK I know, Scotland, but they still have some top division players). |
Yep I'd say that is largely true - and the Euros even tougher than World Cups as it's a smaller pool of teams with more concentrated quality across them all. No real minnows in this tournament. | |
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| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:53 - Jun 18 with 419 views | Match82 |
| Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 22:03 - Jun 17 by SK_hoops |
Literally any manager on the planet would have got us to the semis and final due to the teams we played. |
Hey Google. Find me a picture of Paul Hart |  | | |
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