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Gab & Clives deep-dive on 14:58 - Aug 4 by RatKingCole
I forgot about this, and how snippy he was with you. Did they follow up with the numbers around tickets being used incorrectly as CN said they would? Not that you may be able to post here ofc.
They came back with a round figure of a loss of £47k.
We again asked how that figure had been reached given the stewards, by the club's own admission, don't police this - how many people had been caught using fraudulent concessions, how many people had season tickets confiscated or cancelled etc and we were told those figures weren't available.
1
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 15:04 - Aug 4 with 3533 views
The gist was that Gab is a big admirer of Gareth Ainsworth and was alone in thinking that he would keep us up when every other pundit had written us off, and a lot of them had cited Ainsworth as the reason we would go down.
Something I hadn't really thought about until Clive mentioned it in his conversation with Gab was that we had very few injuries that season (23/24).
We would not have survived that season if we'd had the level of injuries we've had over the last two seasons.
3
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 15:13 - Aug 4 with 3483 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 15:01 - Aug 4 by Northernr
They came back with a round figure of a loss of £47k.
We again asked how that figure had been reached given the stewards, by the club's own admission, don't police this - how many people had been caught using fraudulent concessions, how many people had season tickets confiscated or cancelled etc and we were told those figures weren't available.
Cheers Clive. Sounds like a case of "you'll have what you're given".
Brought to us by The Ministry of Truth.
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Gab & Clives deep-dive on 18:43 - Aug 4 with 3241 views
Pretty strong accusations towards the fans. Fair play to Clive for calling them out on it.
It's not just that, though I think it is important our club tells the truth and if you put something like that in the season ticket brochure you should have figures to back it and the CEO of the company should be across those figures. It was disappointing all round that this was not the case.
Another reason I pursued that is a more general one about the whole sport, rather than QPR
Once these concessions have gone, they don't come back. QPR are not suddenly going to turn around next summer and give you back free Under 8s and discounted 23-25s. In fact, given barely anybody said anything, and in fact some fans actively went into bat for the club on social media with this, I suspect they're running their finger down the list now wondering what else they can do. Can we get rid of the 21s-23 concessions? Can we raise the OAP age limit? Lower the junior concession rate? If we stuck 10% on everybody's ticket would they say anything? What about 20%? What's the line where people get pissd off?
This is the next battle fans are going to have with their football clubs. They don't want to offer concessions. Concessions and season ticket holders are becoming a burden. The Premier League is not even making a secret of this now - four Americans or Koreans on a day trip, club shop, merchandise, refreshments are far more valuable than Bert and his mates who's had his seat for 60 years and gets an old gimmer rate and turns up at five to three and leaves ten minutes before time. The Premier League want the American model where a seat is $250, whether I'm sitting in it, whether a 3 year old sits in it, whether an 83 year old sits in it.
This summer Man Utd have gone to war with their season ticket holders, cancelling them for all sorts of spurious nonsense. Birmingham are doing the same. If you can't make a Birmingham game this year and you give your brother or your mate your season ticket, that's an offence. Three strikes they cancel your pass.
QPR mention this "waiting list" at every possible opportunity. It's seen as a great thing, positive PR. To me it also says - you're replaceable. The words 'waiting list' do not immediately scream cheap, affordable tickets in the future to me. They suggest thumb screws. How long before we get the animated, non-transferable, Ticketmaster digital tickets, for example? Or if you miss x number of games a season without putting it on the club's official resell platform we'll take it off you (Brentford, I believe, do this now).
Rightly or wrongly I think it's the role of sites like this to keep poking at things like this.
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Gab & Clives deep-dive on 19:23 - Aug 4 with 3152 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 19:02 - Aug 4 by Northernr
It's not just that, though I think it is important our club tells the truth and if you put something like that in the season ticket brochure you should have figures to back it and the CEO of the company should be across those figures. It was disappointing all round that this was not the case.
Another reason I pursued that is a more general one about the whole sport, rather than QPR
Once these concessions have gone, they don't come back. QPR are not suddenly going to turn around next summer and give you back free Under 8s and discounted 23-25s. In fact, given barely anybody said anything, and in fact some fans actively went into bat for the club on social media with this, I suspect they're running their finger down the list now wondering what else they can do. Can we get rid of the 21s-23 concessions? Can we raise the OAP age limit? Lower the junior concession rate? If we stuck 10% on everybody's ticket would they say anything? What about 20%? What's the line where people get pissd off?
This is the next battle fans are going to have with their football clubs. They don't want to offer concessions. Concessions and season ticket holders are becoming a burden. The Premier League is not even making a secret of this now - four Americans or Koreans on a day trip, club shop, merchandise, refreshments are far more valuable than Bert and his mates who's had his seat for 60 years and gets an old gimmer rate and turns up at five to three and leaves ten minutes before time. The Premier League want the American model where a seat is $250, whether I'm sitting in it, whether a 3 year old sits in it, whether an 83 year old sits in it.
This summer Man Utd have gone to war with their season ticket holders, cancelling them for all sorts of spurious nonsense. Birmingham are doing the same. If you can't make a Birmingham game this year and you give your brother or your mate your season ticket, that's an offence. Three strikes they cancel your pass.
QPR mention this "waiting list" at every possible opportunity. It's seen as a great thing, positive PR. To me it also says - you're replaceable. The words 'waiting list' do not immediately scream cheap, affordable tickets in the future to me. They suggest thumb screws. How long before we get the animated, non-transferable, Ticketmaster digital tickets, for example? Or if you miss x number of games a season without putting it on the club's official resell platform we'll take it off you (Brentford, I believe, do this now).
Rightly or wrongly I think it's the role of sites like this to keep poking at things like this.
This seems to have been a trend amongst club owners for some time.
"Legacy fans" are viewed as a liability instead of an asset.
I can see why that mindset takes hold in the PL, especially in one of the 'big' clubs who get plenty of tourists - possibly apocryphal but I have heard claims that Liverpool now use audio recordings of fans singing YNWA because they're getting so many tourists!
I'm surprised a club at our level would go down that route.
That said, Lee Hoos was openly talking about it in a podcast two years ago:
He thinks there are so many expats in London that it's a market that can be tapped into, and that he used to get Americans along to Fulham when they had Americans in the team.
Maybe that's why we're so keen on Australians!? (Just kidding, mate!)
[Post edited 4 Aug 19:31]
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Gab & Clives deep-dive on 20:52 - Aug 4 with 3062 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 19:02 - Aug 4 by Northernr
It's not just that, though I think it is important our club tells the truth and if you put something like that in the season ticket brochure you should have figures to back it and the CEO of the company should be across those figures. It was disappointing all round that this was not the case.
Another reason I pursued that is a more general one about the whole sport, rather than QPR
Once these concessions have gone, they don't come back. QPR are not suddenly going to turn around next summer and give you back free Under 8s and discounted 23-25s. In fact, given barely anybody said anything, and in fact some fans actively went into bat for the club on social media with this, I suspect they're running their finger down the list now wondering what else they can do. Can we get rid of the 21s-23 concessions? Can we raise the OAP age limit? Lower the junior concession rate? If we stuck 10% on everybody's ticket would they say anything? What about 20%? What's the line where people get pissd off?
This is the next battle fans are going to have with their football clubs. They don't want to offer concessions. Concessions and season ticket holders are becoming a burden. The Premier League is not even making a secret of this now - four Americans or Koreans on a day trip, club shop, merchandise, refreshments are far more valuable than Bert and his mates who's had his seat for 60 years and gets an old gimmer rate and turns up at five to three and leaves ten minutes before time. The Premier League want the American model where a seat is $250, whether I'm sitting in it, whether a 3 year old sits in it, whether an 83 year old sits in it.
This summer Man Utd have gone to war with their season ticket holders, cancelling them for all sorts of spurious nonsense. Birmingham are doing the same. If you can't make a Birmingham game this year and you give your brother or your mate your season ticket, that's an offence. Three strikes they cancel your pass.
QPR mention this "waiting list" at every possible opportunity. It's seen as a great thing, positive PR. To me it also says - you're replaceable. The words 'waiting list' do not immediately scream cheap, affordable tickets in the future to me. They suggest thumb screws. How long before we get the animated, non-transferable, Ticketmaster digital tickets, for example? Or if you miss x number of games a season without putting it on the club's official resell platform we'll take it off you (Brentford, I believe, do this now).
Rightly or wrongly I think it's the role of sites like this to keep poking at things like this.
In related news, Leicester and Wednesday getting stick for their match-by-match pricing.
£47 to watch Leicester v Burton
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Gab & Clives deep-dive on 05:38 - Aug 5 with 2793 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 19:02 - Aug 4 by Northernr
It's not just that, though I think it is important our club tells the truth and if you put something like that in the season ticket brochure you should have figures to back it and the CEO of the company should be across those figures. It was disappointing all round that this was not the case.
Another reason I pursued that is a more general one about the whole sport, rather than QPR
Once these concessions have gone, they don't come back. QPR are not suddenly going to turn around next summer and give you back free Under 8s and discounted 23-25s. In fact, given barely anybody said anything, and in fact some fans actively went into bat for the club on social media with this, I suspect they're running their finger down the list now wondering what else they can do. Can we get rid of the 21s-23 concessions? Can we raise the OAP age limit? Lower the junior concession rate? If we stuck 10% on everybody's ticket would they say anything? What about 20%? What's the line where people get pissd off?
This is the next battle fans are going to have with their football clubs. They don't want to offer concessions. Concessions and season ticket holders are becoming a burden. The Premier League is not even making a secret of this now - four Americans or Koreans on a day trip, club shop, merchandise, refreshments are far more valuable than Bert and his mates who's had his seat for 60 years and gets an old gimmer rate and turns up at five to three and leaves ten minutes before time. The Premier League want the American model where a seat is $250, whether I'm sitting in it, whether a 3 year old sits in it, whether an 83 year old sits in it.
This summer Man Utd have gone to war with their season ticket holders, cancelling them for all sorts of spurious nonsense. Birmingham are doing the same. If you can't make a Birmingham game this year and you give your brother or your mate your season ticket, that's an offence. Three strikes they cancel your pass.
QPR mention this "waiting list" at every possible opportunity. It's seen as a great thing, positive PR. To me it also says - you're replaceable. The words 'waiting list' do not immediately scream cheap, affordable tickets in the future to me. They suggest thumb screws. How long before we get the animated, non-transferable, Ticketmaster digital tickets, for example? Or if you miss x number of games a season without putting it on the club's official resell platform we'll take it off you (Brentford, I believe, do this now).
Rightly or wrongly I think it's the role of sites like this to keep poking at things like this.
This is where Fulham are. We have a CEO who insists that our ridiculously overpriced walk up tickets aren't in fact over priced because most of them get sold. The fact that almost all of these tickets will be sold to tourists making the only visit to the Cottage they will ever make doesn't bother him at all. They don't care that they have alienated and potentially permanently lost the support of people that have been going for decades because a different tourist or wealthy local will take their place every week. Similarly, they don't care about the impact it has on getting the next generation of local kids from normal backgrounds into the club. This is only going to get worse, especially with US owners.
This is where Fulham are. We have a CEO who insists that our ridiculously overpriced walk up tickets aren't in fact over priced because most of them get sold. The fact that almost all of these tickets will be sold to tourists making the only visit to the Cottage they will ever make doesn't bother him at all. They don't care that they have alienated and potentially permanently lost the support of people that have been going for decades because a different tourist or wealthy local will take their place every week. Similarly, they don't care about the impact it has on getting the next generation of local kids from normal backgrounds into the club. This is only going to get worse, especially with US owners.
This all works until the club has dropped down a league or two and suddenly the stadium is 60% full at best for a home fixture against some small northern team taking 250 people at most and they're back begging for the "legacy" fans they've spent years pissing off to come and fill them.
I think Clive's words all make sense too, although it is bonkers for a club like QPR IMO. We are not a Man Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal that will always be able to sell out a full stadium.
If we end up rubbish this year attendances will be well down by November/December.
Be interesting to see what sort of crowds Leicester/Wednesday get with those prices, although if the teams are doing well and winning sadly they'll probably get big crowd numbers as people want to watch winning teams regardless of cost.
1
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 09:27 - Aug 5 with 2535 views
"Whoever he appoints, Briatore has a lot of ground to make up with QPR fans. Only a year ago, he was hailed as the saviour of the club. It says much for how he has conducted his business that his stock has fallen as sharply as the FTSE 100. Even before his role in Friday's bloodletting, he'd used up his credit. It turns out that making Loftus Road into a boutique stadium meant hoiking the prices to obscene levels, at a stroke disenfranchising many of those fans who had stayed loyal during the dark years of League One football and Vauxhall Motors defeats. Paying £50-a-ticket is all well and good if you want the ground filled with moneyed Eurotrash parvenus, but it doesn't do much for the soul of a club."
1
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 09:28 - Aug 5 with 2530 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 09:03 - Aug 5 by slmrstid
This all works until the club has dropped down a league or two and suddenly the stadium is 60% full at best for a home fixture against some small northern team taking 250 people at most and they're back begging for the "legacy" fans they've spent years pissing off to come and fill them.
I think Clive's words all make sense too, although it is bonkers for a club like QPR IMO. We are not a Man Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal that will always be able to sell out a full stadium.
If we end up rubbish this year attendances will be well down by November/December.
Be interesting to see what sort of crowds Leicester/Wednesday get with those prices, although if the teams are doing well and winning sadly they'll probably get big crowd numbers as people want to watch winning teams regardless of cost.
Although ironically when we've been rubbish (or slightly better than rubbish) LR has still sold out for the majority of matches.
Compared to the Prem, we're still a relatively affordable and authentic football experience, and importantly, close to Central London.
Real Fans Real Football, as Mr Frayling might have had it.
The ticket debate is interesting, as a similar thing has taken place in real time in WWE. A few years ago they sold to combat sport conglomerate TKO. All TKO care about is money, and as much as it as possible. In the space of two years, tickets to Wrestlemania tripled in price. In a market report a year ago they noted that infamous sex offender Vince McMahon had priced tickets low for families to attend when he was in charge so there was loads of headroom to jack up prices. Great when the product was white hot, but now it's in a bit of a downturn, the holding company is bragging about record profits (cos the tickets are infinitely more expensive, yet their second biggest event of the year is an a stadium with huge areas tarped off
In football you're only ever one poor choice away from an empty ground if you don't keep your base
1
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 10:09 - Aug 5 with 2467 views
The ticket debate is interesting, as a similar thing has taken place in real time in WWE. A few years ago they sold to combat sport conglomerate TKO. All TKO care about is money, and as much as it as possible. In the space of two years, tickets to Wrestlemania tripled in price. In a market report a year ago they noted that infamous sex offender Vince McMahon had priced tickets low for families to attend when he was in charge so there was loads of headroom to jack up prices. Great when the product was white hot, but now it's in a bit of a downturn, the holding company is bragging about record profits (cos the tickets are infinitely more expensive, yet their second biggest event of the year is an a stadium with huge areas tarped off
In football you're only ever one poor choice away from an empty ground if you don't keep your base
Of course.
The problem, as is the case in a lot of situations, is will the executives making the decisions be there to have to deal with the fallout when that base is lost? In most situations, they have moved on. See “Phil Beard”.
2
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 10:20 - Aug 5 with 2437 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 10:09 - Aug 5 by Hunterhoop
Of course.
The problem, as is the case in a lot of situations, is will the executives making the decisions be there to have to deal with the fallout when that base is lost? In most situations, they have moved on. See “Phil Beard”.
Classic short-termism.
Not only do the decision makers move on but they pad their CV with claims of boosting income by X%.
So on paper it looks like a huge personal success for them.
The fact it's unsustainable and does more harm than good doesn't matter to them if they've landed a bigger job somewhere else.
[Post edited 5 Aug 10:40]
2
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 10:29 - Aug 5 with 2395 views
Really bizarre behaviour not to engage with someone who may be critical from time to time - it just looks weak. Nourry really doesn't help himself sometimes (and I'm saying that as someone who thinks he has done some good stuff, like addressing the goalkeeping situation which they cocked up last season).
Exactly it just shows up CNs total inexperience at dealing with difficult situations and that he's not interested in constructive criticism, it's my way and that's it, so much responsibility for a young man in his first Senior job.
There's no question he's brought some much needed fresh energy to the job but he would still benefit massively from an experienced Director of Football it just appears that wouldn't work because he wants to make all the final decisions and have complete control.
The good news this Summer is he's been reading LFW the transfers have focused on all the areas that have been identified on here as a priority
0
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 11:16 - Aug 5 with 2316 views
This is where Fulham are. We have a CEO who insists that our ridiculously overpriced walk up tickets aren't in fact over priced because most of them get sold. The fact that almost all of these tickets will be sold to tourists making the only visit to the Cottage they will ever make doesn't bother him at all. They don't care that they have alienated and potentially permanently lost the support of people that have been going for decades because a different tourist or wealthy local will take their place every week. Similarly, they don't care about the impact it has on getting the next generation of local kids from normal backgrounds into the club. This is only going to get worse, especially with US owners.
It’s worse when the Premiership clubs do it, especially the bigger ones like Chelsea and Spurs (no offence to Fulham!) because the ticket prices are such a small part of their commercial revenue. So they could subsidise a small part of their legacy fan base and still afford to pay players £350k a week.
In the lower divisions the ticket revenue is still a largish part of our overall revenue so we have less money to play with to subsidise fans. Not saying here that we should try and squeeze out our loyal fanbase btw!
0
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 12:00 - Aug 5 with 2242 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 16:11 - Aug 3 by Northernr
Yeh, spooky when you hear/read people/accounts parroting the lines back to you isn't it?
Injury problems overblown, same old voices covering QPR, Clive might be a journalist in a his day job but his passion gets the better of him with QPR etc etc.
It is what it is I'm afraid. That's how the club chooses to operate under Christian. It was very clear at the meeting in May where we stand now. I've lost enough sleep over it now and won't be losing any more.
LFW is going to be fcking brilliant this year. We've got a great stable of writers ready to go, we've got a fantastic podcast strand on a thriving Patreon, we're motivated and we're ready to go. If I was the club I'd be falling over myself to work with us. If they don't agree, that's fine, we'll do it without them.
But we're not going away.
I'll dust off the Marge grumble sound effect...
0
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 17:57 - Aug 5 with 2082 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 15:48 - Aug 2 by Northernr
We grabbed Gab afterwards to get his 'three to watch and three to worry about' ahead of him dropping his 1-24 predictions on Friday. You can watch/listen to that now on our Patreon...
Enjoyed this. A couple of things I thought interesting. Our opponents on Saturday, Millwall, interesting you both see them as doing really well. I have a few Millwall supporting mates, and a season ticket holder’s message to me after I went against his Millwall won’t make top 10 prediction was: “ No chance, keepers shit, coopers too slow, RB just got injured, no real striker threat, and our best CM left. We also have the risk of Femi Azeez leaving”. So while seems we’re all talking them up, their fans not so confident.
I think Chair warrants more attention too. I was getting ready to post you forgot to cover Chair during the chat but near the end he was highlighted. Nevertheless, think he’s going under the radar a bit - could be a good thing - but I think he will be massive for us. A fully fit Chair adds more points and can see it being a big year for him.
0
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 18:05 - Aug 5 with 2059 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 17:57 - Aug 5 by PhilmyRs
Enjoyed this. A couple of things I thought interesting. Our opponents on Saturday, Millwall, interesting you both see them as doing really well. I have a few Millwall supporting mates, and a season ticket holder’s message to me after I went against his Millwall won’t make top 10 prediction was: “ No chance, keepers shit, coopers too slow, RB just got injured, no real striker threat, and our best CM left. We also have the risk of Femi Azeez leaving”. So while seems we’re all talking them up, their fans not so confident.
I think Chair warrants more attention too. I was getting ready to post you forgot to cover Chair during the chat but near the end he was highlighted. Nevertheless, think he’s going under the radar a bit - could be a good thing - but I think he will be massive for us. A fully fit Chair adds more points and can see it being a big year for him.
Millwall are on the slide as I write more of the previews up. Crama is injured now as well.
0
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 21:33 - Aug 5 with 1859 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 12:26 - Aug 4 by Hunterhoop
Gab is great. It’s easy to criticise but he’s the most informed pundit out there on the EFL. He really seems to listen to his interviewees. And producing this level of content on every side is no mean feat. He might occasionally be a bit verbose, but I think he’s simply trying to be measured and rounded.
It’s great content.
As is Clive’s and LFW’s season preview.
We’re lucky to get them all.
[Post edited 4 Aug 12:27]
Spot on, you could see in the video Gab would scribble away occasionally, usually when Clive was making a specific point correcting or updating his own research.
He's a million miles ahead of 99% of EFL twitter in terms of knowledge, but doesn't run his mouth with clickbait nonsense just to get engagement. Big fan and always glad to watch this stuff with Clive, and see him when he's at Loftus Road.
ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead
13
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 22:05 - Aug 5 with 1800 views
Spot on, you could see in the video Gab would scribble away occasionally, usually when Clive was making a specific point correcting or updating his own research.
He's a million miles ahead of 99% of EFL twitter in terms of knowledge, but doesn't run his mouth with clickbait nonsense just to get engagement. Big fan and always glad to watch this stuff with Clive, and see him when he's at Loftus Road.
I’m currently doing a 23 team written preview for next week. I’ve done 12 hours on it a day each day this week. I’m nine teams in.
The level of detail and research and time he must put in is insane. And then I turn on Sky Sports News and it’s fcking cnts like “Thogden” or “Mark Goldbridge” or Rory Jennings getting gigs.
Up the Gab Suttons of this world. Support intelligence, research and depth.
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Gab & Clives deep-dive on 22:20 - Aug 5 with 1760 views
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 22:05 - Aug 5 by Northernr
I’m currently doing a 23 team written preview for next week. I’ve done 12 hours on it a day each day this week. I’m nine teams in.
The level of detail and research and time he must put in is insane. And then I turn on Sky Sports News and it’s fcking cnts like “Thogden” or “Mark Goldbridge” or Rory Jennings getting gigs.
Up the Gab Suttons of this world. Support intelligence, research and depth.
Has Gab considered shouting and getting cross?
Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts
6
Gab & Clives deep-dive on 00:48 - Aug 6 with 1659 views
the transfers have focused on all the areas that have been identified on here as a priority 
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