| Injuries 20:14 - Oct 10 with 33325 views | monners1969 |
2 questions
How many fit players do we have?
Do I need to bring my boots and deep heat on Wednesday ? |  | | |  |
| Injuries on 21:56 - Oct 21 with 1266 views | Northernr |
| Injuries on 21:34 - Oct 21 by TK1 |
This bit is not true, though is it:
"I understand why they did it and what they were working against, but for me there was too much acceptance of mediocrity under Les and Lee's regime - basically we've got the 15th best budget in the Championship and so we finish 15th and can never aspire to or hope for more."
In 2019, they seized control of footballing appointments from the board after McLaren, appointed Warburton and finished 13th.
Encouraged, they invested in the team and finished 9th in 2020-21. But for Covid, who knows?
Encouraged even further, they invested again and really went for it. Manager, players, LF all spoke about it. They weren't doing what you describe at all. They were more explicit than anyone at club now, other than Dunne. Finished 11th. Disappointing.
But those three seasons are all better finishes than Nourry's three placings. They went for it again the next season with Beale and, well, it cost them their jobs. Not Hoos, obviously. He gave himself a promotion. But the others.
Worth pointing out that that 2020-21 play-off push was badly derailed by injuries too. It's not just happened under Ben Williams (I also have strong muscle memories of managers stretching back from Holloway through Francis to Jim Smith all saying "I've never known an injury crises like this...").
Let's not be revisionist. Nourry and Stephan are no more ambitious than Ferdinand and Warburton, their standards no higher. Imagine trying to tell either Les or Warbs you felt that. It's rubbish.They just have more money to play with. For now.
No need to invent recent history. |
You know, having had he chance to sleep on it, you make a good strong point which while not fully in agreement I do concede.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Injuries on 06:38 - Oct 22 with 916 views | Rsole |
| Injuries on 14:33 - Oct 21 by FredManRave |
QPR Squad Photo before the Swansea game
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But they are all ‘on the grass,’ n’est pas ?
Looking good - feeling good. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Injuries on 08:28 - Oct 22 with 694 views | TK1 |
| Injuries on 21:56 - Oct 21 by Northernr |
You know, having had he chance to sleep on it, you make a good strong point which while not fully in agreement I do concede.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Haha! Because I climbed upon A VERY VERY HIGH HORSE and wrote a reply to your reply, pressed send and the site had crashed so mercifully swallowed it up. Let's shake.
It's three seasons of Warburton, whatever the circumstances or backdrop. Finishes of 13, 9, 11. Not bad. Not enough.
Well run clubs who have a little ambition should, disaster notwithstanding, give managers three full seasons. I'm sure the plan is the same with Stephan. He's on season number two. I thought at the start it could be a top 8, perhaps 6 season. Looking like maybe a top ten now. Season three will be key, as it was for Warbs.
I think the ambition's the same, on the playing side. You only know how grumpy Warbs was about, say, Masterson because the club let you near him. Stephan is out of bounds to all beyond a zoom. But for Masterson read perhaps Morrison, for Willock's hamstring perhaps Dembele's knee...
Nourry, Stephan, Warburton, Ferdinand, Betsy, Eustace, etc...ambitious football guys who want(ed) to win and succeed. Hoos, Gnanalingam, Reilly: no change there where the big calls are made. And we know where the fish rots typically. |  | | |
| Injuries on 09:06 - Oct 22 with 589 views | Northernr |
| Injuries on 08:28 - Oct 22 by TK1 |
Haha! Because I climbed upon A VERY VERY HIGH HORSE and wrote a reply to your reply, pressed send and the site had crashed so mercifully swallowed it up. Let's shake.
It's three seasons of Warburton, whatever the circumstances or backdrop. Finishes of 13, 9, 11. Not bad. Not enough.
Well run clubs who have a little ambition should, disaster notwithstanding, give managers three full seasons. I'm sure the plan is the same with Stephan. He's on season number two. I thought at the start it could be a top 8, perhaps 6 season. Looking like maybe a top ten now. Season three will be key, as it was for Warbs.
I think the ambition's the same, on the playing side. You only know how grumpy Warbs was about, say, Masterson because the club let you near him. Stephan is out of bounds to all beyond a zoom. But for Masterson read perhaps Morrison, for Willock's hamstring perhaps Dembele's knee...
Nourry, Stephan, Warburton, Ferdinand, Betsy, Eustace, etc...ambitious football guys who want(ed) to win and succeed. Hoos, Gnanalingam, Reilly: no change there where the big calls are made. And we know where the fish rots typically. |
Well you know I agree with that.
And that I love a high horse  | | | |
| Injuries on 09:38 - Oct 22 with 456 views | JamesB1979 |
| Injuries on 21:34 - Oct 21 by TK1 |
This bit is not true, though is it:
"I understand why they did it and what they were working against, but for me there was too much acceptance of mediocrity under Les and Lee's regime - basically we've got the 15th best budget in the Championship and so we finish 15th and can never aspire to or hope for more."
In 2019, they seized control of footballing appointments from the board after McLaren, appointed Warburton and finished 13th.
Encouraged, they invested in the team and finished 9th in 2020-21. But for Covid, who knows?
Encouraged even further, they invested again and really went for it. Manager, players, LF all spoke about it. They weren't doing what you describe at all. They were more explicit than anyone at club now, other than Dunne. Finished 11th. Disappointing.
But those three seasons are all better finishes than Nourry's three placings. They went for it again the next season with Beale and, well, it cost them their jobs. Not Hoos, obviously. He gave himself a promotion. But the others.
Worth pointing out that that 2020-21 play-off push was badly derailed by injuries too. It's not just happened under Ben Williams (I also have strong muscle memories of managers stretching back from Holloway through Francis to Jim Smith all saying "I've never known an injury crises like this...").
Let's not be revisionist. Nourry and Stephan are no more ambitious than Ferdinand and Warburton, their standards no higher. Imagine trying to tell either Les or Warbs you felt that. It's rubbish.They just have more money to play with. For now.
No need to invent recent history. |
I love Les as a player and think Warburton was our best manager since Warnock. But look where those “pushes” to get into the playoffs got us? So what if we finished 11th one season if we ended up close to breathing FFP again and with the squad that Gareth had to deal with in that 23-24 season.
You are right in that Nourry, Warburton, Les and Stephan are all equally ambitious. The difference is that now we are trying to buy younger and sell for profit, at the same time as trying to improve the first team position in the league. Before we got likes Austin, Johansen….focus on quality now, money on wages not transfer fees. Let’s not kid ourselves that we didn’t spend money before, we spent it on wages not transfer fees. [Post edited 22 Oct 9:50]
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| Injuries on 09:54 - Oct 22 with 411 views | eastside_r |
| Injuries on 09:38 - Oct 22 by JamesB1979 |
I love Les as a player and think Warburton was our best manager since Warnock. But look where those “pushes” to get into the playoffs got us? So what if we finished 11th one season if we ended up close to breathing FFP again and with the squad that Gareth had to deal with in that 23-24 season.
You are right in that Nourry, Warburton, Les and Stephan are all equally ambitious. The difference is that now we are trying to buy younger and sell for profit, at the same time as trying to improve the first team position in the league. Before we got likes Austin, Johansen….focus on quality now, money on wages not transfer fees. Let’s not kid ourselves that we didn’t spend money before, we spent it on wages not transfer fees. [Post edited 22 Oct 9:50]
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You have a point about the fag end of the Hoos / Ferdinand era BUT remember the early years were about reducing the enormous wage bill (post Hughes & Redknapp.)
Lee / Les managed to do that and keep us out or the third tier. Some achievement.
Maybe they served their purpose and it was time to move on but let’s not trash their legacy completely. |  | | |
| Injuries on 10:17 - Oct 22 with 307 views | TK1 |
| Injuries on 09:38 - Oct 22 by JamesB1979 |
I love Les as a player and think Warburton was our best manager since Warnock. But look where those “pushes” to get into the playoffs got us? So what if we finished 11th one season if we ended up close to breathing FFP again and with the squad that Gareth had to deal with in that 23-24 season.
You are right in that Nourry, Warburton, Les and Stephan are all equally ambitious. The difference is that now we are trying to buy younger and sell for profit, at the same time as trying to improve the first team position in the league. Before we got likes Austin, Johansen….focus on quality now, money on wages not transfer fees. Let’s not kid ourselves that we didn’t spend money before, we spent it on wages not transfer fees. [Post edited 22 Oct 9:50]
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Players brought through in that era, from the same get 'bring in players for Dev-squad to grow into first teamers or sales' that we are doing now: Eze, Chair, Dieng, Manning, plus Amos, BOS , Willock and others like Owen who didn't work out through whatever reason, ie fitness, mentality.
Were they any better or more successful than same in class now of Morgan, Vale, Adamson, Bennie, Pearman, Scarlett...we shall see. We haven't sold or developed a single player yet. Some we bought to develop and sell are damagingly injured at regular intervals, such as Kone and Burrell. This summer we signed the old but injury prone likes of Kamara, Lamptey. Kemper's not exactly a child, nor Cirkin. I like them. But I also liked the signings of Johansen, Odubajo, Dickie and even Austin at the time.
And the only two young players QPR have brought through from Dev squad recruitment to sales for as long as we remember were signed and developed under LF, in that 2019 onwards era: Eze, Kelman. That's £20m brought in from zero fee paid. Over to you Nourry and Dev squad coaching team.
Let's not pretend it's different. That's club propaganda. And yes, those three Warbs years did damage when followed by Beale and Ainsworth. But let's not prejudge this year and next's campaign and the signings made. We spent two summers in a row but we have recouped FA. Let's see. The writing of history needs time's perspective. [Post edited 22 Oct 10:26]
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| Injuries on 10:22 - Oct 22 with 277 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Excellent chat, folks.
(Including Clive's amended post, which i thought also made some good points). |  |
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| Injuries on 10:24 - Oct 22 with 273 views | nix |
| Injuries on 09:38 - Oct 22 by JamesB1979 |
I love Les as a player and think Warburton was our best manager since Warnock. But look where those “pushes” to get into the playoffs got us? So what if we finished 11th one season if we ended up close to breathing FFP again and with the squad that Gareth had to deal with in that 23-24 season.
You are right in that Nourry, Warburton, Les and Stephan are all equally ambitious. The difference is that now we are trying to buy younger and sell for profit, at the same time as trying to improve the first team position in the league. Before we got likes Austin, Johansen….focus on quality now, money on wages not transfer fees. Let’s not kid ourselves that we didn’t spend money before, we spent it on wages not transfer fees. [Post edited 22 Oct 9:50]
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That’s true and also isn’t it true that more and more clubs are spending big amounts now. You’ve got the likes of Portsmouth spending €10 million net transfers in one season.
Stoke have spent €32 million net transfer fees (transfer purchases less sales and €41 million gross purchases only). Wrexham have spent €39 million net on transfers. Both this season alone.
I asked this question before and didn’t get an answer then from anyone, which teams do we think we should be better than?
There are the three relegated teams that should be better than us.
Wrexham and Stoke should be better than us given the eye watering amounts they spent this season. Should we be better than Middlesbrough who’ve spent €25 million net this season alone and were very close to promotion last season with their old squad. Southampton who also have a parachute level squad and would’ve probably got promoted last season if not for spygate.
Then you’ve got Birmingham who’ve spent €54 million on transfers in the last three seasons and have a wage bill nearly double ours? Then you’ve got WBA and Swansea who’ve each spent around €13 million this season alone and big wage bills.
I’m not saying we should pack up and go home. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have ambitions. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have standards. Of course we should have some expectations. Coventry did it after all.
But it’s also not unreasonable to recognise that it’s a loaded deck we’re playing with. And sometimes when we lose at a team like Birmingham in the third match of a three match week it’s not just about standards it’s about money.
So us reaching 9th this season if we did could arguably be more impressive than Warbs doing it with the money he spent that season compared to what others were spending at the time. |  | | |
| Injuries on 10:27 - Oct 22 with 252 views | JamesB1979 |
| Injuries on 10:17 - Oct 22 by TK1 |
Players brought through in that era, from the same get 'bring in players for Dev-squad to grow into first teamers or sales' that we are doing now: Eze, Chair, Dieng, Manning, plus Amos, BOS , Willock and others like Owen who didn't work out through whatever reason, ie fitness, mentality.
Were they any better or more successful than same in class now of Morgan, Vale, Adamson, Bennie, Pearman, Scarlett...we shall see. We haven't sold or developed a single player yet. Some we bought to develop and sell are damagingly injured at regular intervals, such as Kone and Burrell. This summer we signed the old but injury prone likes of Kamara, Lamptey. Kemper's not exactly a child, nor Cirkin. I like them. But I also liked the signings of Johansen, Odubajo, Dickie and even Austin at the time.
And the only two young players QPR have brought through from Dev squad recruitment to sales for as long as we remember were signed and developed under LF, in that 2019 onwards era: Eze, Kelman. That's £20m brought in from zero fee paid. Over to you Nourry and Dev squad coaching team.
Let's not pretend it's different. That's club propaganda. And yes, those three Warbs years did damage when followed by Beale and Ainsworth. But let's not prejudge this year and next's campaign and the signings made. We spent two summers in a row but we have recouped FA. Let's see. The writing of history needs time's perspective. [Post edited 22 Oct 10:26]
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My point was that we did spend money before. We have also got the age of the squad down. I do agree that it’s too early to judge the recruitment yet. We need to see how much we can get in.
I do think we are doing things differently but that doesn’t change the fact that the injuries are a complete mess again | | | |
| Injuries on 10:29 - Oct 22 with 241 views | JamesB1979 |
| Injuries on 09:54 - Oct 22 by eastside_r |
You have a point about the fag end of the Hoos / Ferdinand era BUT remember the early years were about reducing the enormous wage bill (post Hughes & Redknapp.)
Lee / Les managed to do that and keep us out or the third tier. Some achievement.
Maybe they served their purpose and it was time to move on but let’s not trash their legacy completely. |
I wasn’t “trashing” their legacy. A slight overreaction to my post I think. They went for promotion, I wanted promotion. It didn’t work out. We move on. | | | |
| Injuries on 10:43 - Oct 22 with 168 views | TK1 |
| Injuries on 10:27 - Oct 22 by JamesB1979 |
My point was that we did spend money before. We have also got the age of the squad down. I do agree that it’s too early to judge the recruitment yet. We need to see how much we can get in.
I do think we are doing things differently but that doesn’t change the fact that the injuries are a complete mess again |
We were just talking about ambition and standards. Clive said LF and LH were always happy to just par the 15th in the league based on wages. I disagree, saying the Warbs seasons proved that wasn't true. The money bit actually backs that up. Only we made some sales from the LF recruitment of Dev players.
Hopefully Morgan and Bennie will generate Eze and Kelman income...
The only thing we're doing differently is training at a brand new complex we own and are continuing to develop. We know when that was built. | | | |
| Injuries on 10:45 - Oct 22 with 146 views | bosh67 |
With Madsen and Chair out as our major playmakers is it time to put Ward in goal and give Charles the number 10 shirt? |  |
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| Injuries on 11:02 - Oct 22 with 76 views | TheChef |
| Injuries on 10:45 - Oct 22 by bosh67 |
With Madsen and Chair out as our major playmakers is it time to put Ward in goal and give Charles the number 10 shirt? |
You mad lunatic.
I like it! |  |
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| Injuries on 11:02 - Oct 22 with 76 views | Logman |
| Injuries on 10:45 - Oct 22 by bosh67 |
With Madsen and Chair out as our major playmakers is it time to put Ward in goal and give Charles the number 10 shirt? |
What I find mildly amusing about all this is that we are now not a million miles away from JS's conjecture that we could have 8/9 players out injured and Kolli still won't get in if he's not giving 100% in training. Fingers crossed he still is otherwise it's Ridwan Hassan or Josh Wright on Saturday | | | |
| Injuries on 11:11 - Oct 22 with 48 views | TheChef |
| Injuries on 11:02 - Oct 22 by Logman |
What I find mildly amusing about all this is that we are now not a million miles away from JS's conjecture that we could have 8/9 players out injured and Kolli still won't get in if he's not giving 100% in training. Fingers crossed he still is otherwise it's Ridwan Hassan or Josh Wright on Saturday |
Yes funny how Kolli is now our main striker 
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