| Latest Accounts Filed on 09:31 - Feb 10 with 4753 views | queensparker |
Well, that sounds like excellent news. |  | |  |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 09:32 - Feb 10 with 4745 views | silky |
I'm rubbish with numbers but that on the face of it looks very reasonable. Well done Hoos |  |
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| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:02 - Feb 10 with 4590 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Good thread here.
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| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:07 - Feb 10 with 4559 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Some questions for the amateur accountants out there
1) What would the figures be without owner input?
2) At this rate of costs, what would we look like in a non Covid season? |  | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:14 - Feb 10 with 4511 views | BklynRanger |
It's still a 3 year rolling average for P&S isn't it? Could be a useful bit of headroom in terms of reinvesting in players if we lose a couple next season. (I think?!... ) |  | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:17 - Feb 10 with 4485 views | CroydonCaptJack |
I am hoping Rollercoaster will be along with some valued input but given this is a Covid season, I am sure that the furlough money and any rates rebate would have hardly dented the wage bill and with practically no gate income this is not bad at all. Would have probably been profitable if not for Covid which must be very frustrating for Hoos etc. |  |
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| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:23 - Feb 10 with 4439 views | francisbowles |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:14 - Feb 10 by BklynRanger |
It's still a 3 year rolling average for P&S isn't it? Could be a useful bit of headroom in terms of reinvesting in players if we lose a couple next season. (I think?!... ) |
I think we may have spent a fair bit of that already.
Austin, Johansen, Field, De Wijs, Dozell, Gray, McCallum, Marshall, Hendrick, Sanderson and Odubajo. |  | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:38 - Feb 10 with 4347 views | stevec |
We’ve got a lot to thank Eze for.
Will need another one of them every 3 years unless we reach the promised land. |  | | |
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| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:44 - Feb 10 with 4332 views | Phildo |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:07 - Feb 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Some questions for the amateur accountants out there
1) What would the figures be without owner input?
2) At this rate of costs, what would we look like in a non Covid season? |
1.Without an owner with cash not a viable entity- despite being now one of the very best run championship clubs
2 On that year with Eze money close to break even - or possibly in profit slightly. But unlikely to be repeated
Another 17m of Rubens cash turned into equity which he would not recover if he was to sell tomorrow |  | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:53 - Feb 10 with 4254 views | EastR |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:17 - Feb 10 by CroydonCaptJack |
I am hoping Rollercoaster will be along with some valued input but given this is a Covid season, I am sure that the furlough money and any rates rebate would have hardly dented the wage bill and with practically no gate income this is not bad at all. Would have probably been profitable if not for Covid which must be very frustrating for Hoos etc. |
We got £515,000 from the furlough scheme (£305,000 in the previous year) | |
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| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:59 - Feb 10 with 4225 views | superhoopdownunder |
Accounts look better.
The only thing I don't understand is why have we increased our football staff by 16? | | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 11:03 - Feb 10 with 4195 views | BklynRanger |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:23 - Feb 10 by francisbowles |
I think we may have spent a fair bit of that already.
Austin, Johansen, Field, De Wijs, Dozell, Gray, McCallum, Marshall, Hendrick, Sanderson and Odubajo. |
Is that on the basis of the Eze money covering the losses, and the next sale retroactively covering this season's purchases? | | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 11:08 - Feb 10 with 4137 views | nix |
What would our turnover be in a normal year? I'm guessing that it's been absolutely slashed for this financial period, and we'd be in reasonable shape otherwise as our costs have been significantly reduced.
I know we've spent a fair bit of the Eze cash but some of it has been on players that may themselves bring a return, like Dykes, Dunne, Field and Willock.
Surely other clubs that haven't cut costs and are still paying silly wages are going to be in more trouble than us? They can't all have sold £20 million players. |  | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 11:10 - Feb 10 with 4138 views | Snipper |
I’m sure I heard that FFP was to be relaxed due to the pandemic, ie, loss of gate receipts etc.
That could be why certain clubs are spending money. |  | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 11:14 - Feb 10 with 4098 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:44 - Feb 10 by Phildo |
1.Without an owner with cash not a viable entity- despite being now one of the very best run championship clubs
2 On that year with Eze money close to break even - or possibly in profit slightly. But unlikely to be repeated
Another 17m of Rubens cash turned into equity which he would not recover if he was to sell tomorrow |
Are you sure? Looks to my amateur eyes that a normal non covid period we'd be in profit without intervention from shareholders? As long as we sold £20m worth of players every two seasons, which is extremely doable. | | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 13:28 - Feb 10 with 3820 views | dmm |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:02 - Feb 10 by BrianMcCarthy |
Good thread here.
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Thanks Brian. That's a good overall analysis.
I thought the following comment was a very interesting way of looking at the finances: "The timing of the way we have come good this season just reflects that if you run the business well off the pitch it does feed through to the rest of the club. I like to think this is highlighted by the cost per point, which has more than halved since the 2014 high point." |  | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 13:44 - Feb 10 with 3751 views | QPR_Jim |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 11:14 - Feb 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Are you sure? Looks to my amateur eyes that a normal non covid period we'd be in profit without intervention from shareholders? As long as we sold £20m worth of players every two seasons, which is extremely doable. |
I'd possibly downgrade "extremely doable" to something like "a bit of a challenge". We've only managed it once so far and 1 period where that guy who's going to balance your books decides he wants to run down his contract or he does his ligaments and you're looking at a massive hole in your finances. So I'd say running the club without the shareholders is doable but risky and would be a difficult challenge. |  | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 13:55 - Feb 10 with 3687 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 13:44 - Feb 10 by QPR_Jim |
I'd possibly downgrade "extremely doable" to something like "a bit of a challenge". We've only managed it once so far and 1 period where that guy who's going to balance your books decides he wants to run down his contract or he does his ligaments and you're looking at a massive hole in your finances. So I'd say running the club without the shareholders is doable but risky and would be a difficult challenge. |
Don't worry, i'm not planning a coup!
Eze was a irreplaceable loss year before last and now we have Chair AND Willock doing the same thing for £650k. That's before we get to Dickie, Barbet, and Dieng.
Appreciate we didn't get here by accident and that investors have made it possible, but i'm always keen to seek evidence that English football is sustainable.
Great news all round. [Post edited 10 Feb 2022 13:57]
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| Latest Accounts Filed on 14:47 - Feb 10 with 3492 views | queensparker |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 11:14 - Feb 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Are you sure? Looks to my amateur eyes that a normal non covid period we'd be in profit without intervention from shareholders? As long as we sold £20m worth of players every two seasons, which is extremely doable. |
I could well be wrong, but I think our revenue for last year also includes 17m from Ruben converted to equity.
So we’re 4m off break even last year, even with both the Eze money and 17m/year from the owner. | | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 14:59 - Feb 10 with 3416 views | JamesB1979 |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 10:07 - Feb 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Some questions for the amateur accountants out there
1) What would the figures be without owner input?
2) At this rate of costs, what would we look like in a non Covid season? |
1) Need to look at cashflow as the owners input does not appear on the income statement. We made 12m loss in cash before they invested.
2) normal Covid income is say 19m (?), we seem to have 36m of costs. So, 17m loss every year. That’s a lot to cover from player sales I think.
It’s difficult because Covid distorts the picture as no idea what “normal” revenues are. | | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 16:52 - Feb 10 with 3210 views | qprd |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 14:59 - Feb 10 by JamesB1979 |
1) Need to look at cashflow as the owners input does not appear on the income statement. We made 12m loss in cash before they invested.
2) normal Covid income is say 19m (?), we seem to have 36m of costs. So, 17m loss every year. That’s a lot to cover from player sales I think.
It’s difficult because Covid distorts the picture as no idea what “normal” revenues are. |
i havent taken a look at these accounts, but i have read through them quite closely in years pas
theres usually a line in the notes to the financials that says how much the shareholders funded... it takes the form of a "shareholder loan", but ultimately it is ultimately an injection of equity as the owners basically just convert the debt into shares- in other words, they write off the loan and never get paid back | | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 17:05 - Feb 10 with 3160 views | JamesB1979 |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 16:52 - Feb 10 by qprd |
i havent taken a look at these accounts, but i have read through them quite closely in years pas
theres usually a line in the notes to the financials that says how much the shareholders funded... it takes the form of a "shareholder loan", but ultimately it is ultimately an injection of equity as the owners basically just convert the debt into shares- in other words, they write off the loan and never get paid back |
I think (?) Baz was talking cash though. You can see what’s been put in by shareholders on cashflow. I could be wrong but that conversion is excluded for FFP, so whilst makes P&L look better, doesn’t really change much. | | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 18:50 - Feb 10 with 2960 views | derbyhoop |
The operating loss was 21M
Turnover was down 3.8M because of the pandemic restrictions meaning there was little gate income.
But a massive revenue boost from player sales.
That still left an overall loss of 4.5m.
The only way that sort of loss can be lived with is to sell players. And for big money. Eze was an exception. We have never raised that sort of money from any player sales in the past.
I suspect that this season will see turnover up as the fans have been coming back, we've pocketed a lot of money from being on Sky every other week; and we've had Cup runs (at least by our standards). We've also got a number of players who could raise 7 or 8 figure transfer fees but, probably not Eze levels.
If we go up we have every chance of keeping the players in demand. But, if we don't, we'll have to sell 1 or 2. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Latest Accounts Filed on 19:32 - Feb 10 with 2836 views | QPR_Jim |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 13:55 - Feb 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Don't worry, i'm not planning a coup!
Eze was a irreplaceable loss year before last and now we have Chair AND Willock doing the same thing for £650k. That's before we get to Dickie, Barbet, and Dieng.
Appreciate we didn't get here by accident and that investors have made it possible, but i'm always keen to seek evidence that English football is sustainable.
Great news all round. [Post edited 10 Feb 2022 13:57]
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That's exactly what somebody planning a coup would say!
It looks like our accounts are in a very positive position so hopefully we can get to a point where we're not reliant on shareholders to bankroll us each month in the near future. Some of the infrastructure to do that also costs money though unfortunately (like buying a training ground to avoid two lots of rent). So I think it's going to be a slow process. | | | |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 19:35 - Feb 10 with 2821 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Latest Accounts Filed on 19:32 - Feb 10 by QPR_Jim |
That's exactly what somebody planning a coup would say!
It looks like our accounts are in a very positive position so hopefully we can get to a point where we're not reliant on shareholders to bankroll us each month in the near future. Some of the infrastructure to do that also costs money though unfortunately (like buying a training ground to avoid two lots of rent). So I think it's going to be a slow process. |
Busted.
Yeah facilities essential. The final missing pieces of our amazing progress over the last 8 years.
Not a fan of owners as you may have gathered, but we have the least worst it seems. [Post edited 10 Feb 2022 19:37]
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