| Small Business on 01:08 - Aug 3 with 3028 views | Lblock |
The vast majority of SME’s in this country will do the right thing - despite a myriad of administrative burden which remains as a Brussels hangover. They get bashed all the time and it becomes ever onerous to run a small or medium enterprise smoothly.
I don’t see the relevance in the link you include?
That article refers to (the vast majority of the time) individuals who set themselves up as Limited entities and work the system.
My industry is rife with it.
People won’t like hearing this but this is true - absolutely loads of foreign labour took advantage of their standing as a “small business” and worked the government a treat. They’ve been here for years and had “company status” despite being a one man band so they took these loans gladly and promptly fcukd off back to their homelands leaving their Ltd company to simply fold away. Not only will many have banked up to £50k but they also will not have paid their tax for up to two years.
I know of literally dozens of stories just in my small network so the problem is widespread.
One bloke worked for us via one of our suppliers, he took the loan, his wife also took the loan and now they are fulfilling their ambition of running a bakery back in Poland. He has zero intention of coming back here to put up partitions on shitty building sites and we as a nation will never see £100k + of revenue from him and his family.
There are other stories I won’t go into
The policy was a noble one and undoubtedly it will have done some good. I just think it was poorly thought out, badly administered and naive of the amount of abuse it was open to.
Returning to your point - I don’t think there will be mistrust of SME’s per se, but people will rightly question where this will lead us |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Small Business on 01:50 - Aug 3 with 3015 views | Boston |
I've recently invested in an Acro supply company in Peckham. It's called Pwoppa Pwop Ups. |  |
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| Small Business on 02:45 - Aug 3 with 2981 views | Lblock |
| Small Business on 01:50 - Aug 3 by Boston |
I've recently invested in an Acro supply company in Peckham. It's called Pwoppa Pwop Ups. |
They’ll go far them lads
They’re strong boys [Post edited 3 Aug 2022 2:46]
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Small Business on 06:32 - Aug 3 with 2867 views | dmm |
| Small Business on 01:50 - Aug 3 by Boston |
I've recently invested in an Acro supply company in Peckham. It's called Pwoppa Pwop Ups. |
I worked for Acrow in the early 1980s when they had their offices in Paddington. Briefly met the owner, William de Vigier, who came to London before WW2 with £50 in his pocket, invented the Acrow prop and named it after his solicitor Mr A Crowe. It was the first ever adjustable prop and continues to be used around the world today.
The Acrow offices had a great old fashioned staff canteen. |  | | |
| Small Business on 07:36 - Aug 3 with 2765 views | Kensal_Ranger |
| Small Business on 01:08 - Aug 3 by Lblock |
The vast majority of SME’s in this country will do the right thing - despite a myriad of administrative burden which remains as a Brussels hangover. They get bashed all the time and it becomes ever onerous to run a small or medium enterprise smoothly.
I don’t see the relevance in the link you include?
That article refers to (the vast majority of the time) individuals who set themselves up as Limited entities and work the system.
My industry is rife with it.
People won’t like hearing this but this is true - absolutely loads of foreign labour took advantage of their standing as a “small business” and worked the government a treat. They’ve been here for years and had “company status” despite being a one man band so they took these loans gladly and promptly fcukd off back to their homelands leaving their Ltd company to simply fold away. Not only will many have banked up to £50k but they also will not have paid their tax for up to two years.
I know of literally dozens of stories just in my small network so the problem is widespread.
One bloke worked for us via one of our suppliers, he took the loan, his wife also took the loan and now they are fulfilling their ambition of running a bakery back in Poland. He has zero intention of coming back here to put up partitions on shitty building sites and we as a nation will never see £100k + of revenue from him and his family.
There are other stories I won’t go into
The policy was a noble one and undoubtedly it will have done some good. I just think it was poorly thought out, badly administered and naive of the amount of abuse it was open to.
Returning to your point - I don’t think there will be mistrust of SME’s per se, but people will rightly question where this will lead us |
Without the controls and the monitoring this was always bound to happen; that's why it was called 'helicopter money' in the meeja.
The principle was sound, even worthy, but done in haste and panic.
I don't imagine it was confined to construction businesses but perhaps largely they were the main beneficiaries? |  | | |
| Small Business on 08:18 - Aug 3 with 2642 views | CroydonCaptJack |
up to £500m from £47 billion loaned is a very small % but I guess the £500m makes a good headline. |  | | |
| Small Business on 08:27 - Aug 3 with 2606 views | wombat |
| Small Business on 01:08 - Aug 3 by Lblock |
The vast majority of SME’s in this country will do the right thing - despite a myriad of administrative burden which remains as a Brussels hangover. They get bashed all the time and it becomes ever onerous to run a small or medium enterprise smoothly.
I don’t see the relevance in the link you include?
That article refers to (the vast majority of the time) individuals who set themselves up as Limited entities and work the system.
My industry is rife with it.
People won’t like hearing this but this is true - absolutely loads of foreign labour took advantage of their standing as a “small business” and worked the government a treat. They’ve been here for years and had “company status” despite being a one man band so they took these loans gladly and promptly fcukd off back to their homelands leaving their Ltd company to simply fold away. Not only will many have banked up to £50k but they also will not have paid their tax for up to two years.
I know of literally dozens of stories just in my small network so the problem is widespread.
One bloke worked for us via one of our suppliers, he took the loan, his wife also took the loan and now they are fulfilling their ambition of running a bakery back in Poland. He has zero intention of coming back here to put up partitions on shitty building sites and we as a nation will never see £100k + of revenue from him and his family.
There are other stories I won’t go into
The policy was a noble one and undoubtedly it will have done some good. I just think it was poorly thought out, badly administered and naive of the amount of abuse it was open to.
Returning to your point - I don’t think there will be mistrust of SME’s per se, but people will rightly question where this will lead us |
been supplying guys to sites for last 25 or so years never seen a summer like it , no body around even the crap is being used just to get jobs done prob got 250k of work across the uk for next 6 months unfilled as no body aval or willing to work |  |
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| Small Business on 08:40 - Aug 3 with 2569 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Small Business on 01:08 - Aug 3 by Lblock |
The vast majority of SME’s in this country will do the right thing - despite a myriad of administrative burden which remains as a Brussels hangover. They get bashed all the time and it becomes ever onerous to run a small or medium enterprise smoothly.
I don’t see the relevance in the link you include?
That article refers to (the vast majority of the time) individuals who set themselves up as Limited entities and work the system.
My industry is rife with it.
People won’t like hearing this but this is true - absolutely loads of foreign labour took advantage of their standing as a “small business” and worked the government a treat. They’ve been here for years and had “company status” despite being a one man band so they took these loans gladly and promptly fcukd off back to their homelands leaving their Ltd company to simply fold away. Not only will many have banked up to £50k but they also will not have paid their tax for up to two years.
I know of literally dozens of stories just in my small network so the problem is widespread.
One bloke worked for us via one of our suppliers, he took the loan, his wife also took the loan and now they are fulfilling their ambition of running a bakery back in Poland. He has zero intention of coming back here to put up partitions on shitty building sites and we as a nation will never see £100k + of revenue from him and his family.
There are other stories I won’t go into
The policy was a noble one and undoubtedly it will have done some good. I just think it was poorly thought out, badly administered and naive of the amount of abuse it was open to.
Returning to your point - I don’t think there will be mistrust of SME’s per se, but people will rightly question where this will lead us |
Welcome back to the world of political commentary, LBlock. You’ve started with a bang that’s for sure. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Small Business on 09:20 - Aug 3 with 2507 views | derbyhoop |
| Small Business on 07:36 - Aug 3 by Kensal_Ranger |
Without the controls and the monitoring this was always bound to happen; that's why it was called 'helicopter money' in the meeja.
The principle was sound, even worthy, but done in haste and panic.
I don't imagine it was confined to construction businesses but perhaps largely they were the main beneficiaries? |
Exactly so.
The principle was OK under the circumstances. The delivery as per Test & Trace, was slapdash.
It's taxpayers money. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Small Business on 09:34 - Aug 3 with 2460 views | lightwaterhoop |
From what i can make out the lockdowns here and in the EU and USA were paid for by central banks printing money. | | | |
| Small Business on 09:38 - Aug 3 with 2450 views | ted_hendrix |
| Small Business on 06:32 - Aug 3 by dmm |
I worked for Acrow in the early 1980s when they had their offices in Paddington. Briefly met the owner, William de Vigier, who came to London before WW2 with £50 in his pocket, invented the Acrow prop and named it after his solicitor Mr A Crowe. It was the first ever adjustable prop and continues to be used around the world today.
The Acrow offices had a great old fashioned staff canteen. |
The acrow prop was a great invention, on the flip side if incorrectly used they were bloody deadly and they weighed a ton. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Small Business on 10:32 - Aug 3 with 2330 views | PunteR |
Didn't know that.
I use them loads. Pain in the arse when you get a rusty one, and that little chain thing getting in the way. Could do with an updated design.
Replying to dmm's post [Post edited 3 Aug 2022 17:23]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Small Business on 10:33 - Aug 3 with 2327 views | PunteR |
| Small Business on 08:27 - Aug 3 by wombat |
been supplying guys to sites for last 25 or so years never seen a summer like it , no body around even the crap is being used just to get jobs done prob got 250k of work across the uk for next 6 months unfilled as no body aval or willing to work |
Labourers or skilled tradesmen? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Small Business on 10:45 - Aug 3 with 2299 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
I actually do worry that articles like this will erode trust in small business owners. I too know people who took out the bounce-back loans and they will have invested them in their businesses and will now be paying them back. Where is the reference to these people in the article?
According to this parliamentary report.
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/16
“The estimated loss to fraud and error across all Covid 19 response measures is not known but is expected to be at least £15 billion across the schemes and loans implemented by HM Revenue & Customs”
So that figure includes the furlough scheme too so I don’t know where they got the £17bn from in the article. It’s very misleading and I don’t see what they’re trying to achieve. Unless of course it’s trying to deflect attention away from the true crooks who have benefitted from the pandemic? The super-rich? |  |
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| Small Business on 10:51 - Aug 3 with 2273 views | LazyFan |
| Small Business on 08:27 - Aug 3 by wombat |
been supplying guys to sites for last 25 or so years never seen a summer like it , no body around even the crap is being used just to get jobs done prob got 250k of work across the uk for next 6 months unfilled as no body aval or willing to work |
No matter what industry I have worked in, there is only one way to ensure you are never short of workers at the standard you need.
It's proven and never fails, but everyone refuses to do it even though they can, just because it offends their so-called ideology and/or they come up with lame excuses not to actually make money, despite claiming they are sensible business people.
It is simple, pay ABOVE market rates. When you pay ABOVE market rates, not market rate, but ABOVE you will notice no immediate change (word needs to get out), but over time they will come back. Now if you need em really fast, that's even simpler, pay DOUBLE the market rate. If you pay DOUBLE word gets out faster and they turn up real fast.
This is fantasy yes? No one would do that right?
Well, I am on DOUBLE my rate of 12 months ago. So, for 12 months I have secured DOUBLE. I work loads of hours and possibly only have 6 months left if I am lucky on this gig. So, 18 months of DOUBLE and then I presume that was a one-off and I shall be back to normal. But they got me real quick and picked me out from 50 others (when you pay double the entire market turns up) and they already admit they got their money's worth. So, everyone has done well out of this. They would take me beyond 18 months but of course, someone else up the tree is troubled by ideology.
But this does also mean you may have to pay your current workers ABOVE due to the market, as right now if you don't do that you are now taking the piddle. Yes, that's the capitalist markets, you wanted them, well here they are, pay up or lose workers. If you can't afford that, well I am afraid then your competitors who are also suffering will manage to survive and you will go under when things return to normal.
Having lots of work with no capability is not a great message to clients.
Pay up and secure the Business or go down when things return to normal. |  |
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| Small Business on 12:06 - Aug 3 with 2124 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Small Business on 01:08 - Aug 3 by Lblock |
The vast majority of SME’s in this country will do the right thing - despite a myriad of administrative burden which remains as a Brussels hangover. They get bashed all the time and it becomes ever onerous to run a small or medium enterprise smoothly.
I don’t see the relevance in the link you include?
That article refers to (the vast majority of the time) individuals who set themselves up as Limited entities and work the system.
My industry is rife with it.
People won’t like hearing this but this is true - absolutely loads of foreign labour took advantage of their standing as a “small business” and worked the government a treat. They’ve been here for years and had “company status” despite being a one man band so they took these loans gladly and promptly fcukd off back to their homelands leaving their Ltd company to simply fold away. Not only will many have banked up to £50k but they also will not have paid their tax for up to two years.
I know of literally dozens of stories just in my small network so the problem is widespread.
One bloke worked for us via one of our suppliers, he took the loan, his wife also took the loan and now they are fulfilling their ambition of running a bakery back in Poland. He has zero intention of coming back here to put up partitions on shitty building sites and we as a nation will never see £100k + of revenue from him and his family.
There are other stories I won’t go into
The policy was a noble one and undoubtedly it will have done some good. I just think it was poorly thought out, badly administered and naive of the amount of abuse it was open to.
Returning to your point - I don’t think there will be mistrust of SME’s per se, but people will rightly question where this will lead us |
Charles, Andrew, Boris or Matt would'net even get out of bed for such a derisory fiddle and they hav'nt lost the trust of many so I think SME's will be fine. | | | |
| Small Business on 12:30 - Aug 3 with 2057 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Small Business on 10:51 - Aug 3 by LazyFan |
No matter what industry I have worked in, there is only one way to ensure you are never short of workers at the standard you need.
It's proven and never fails, but everyone refuses to do it even though they can, just because it offends their so-called ideology and/or they come up with lame excuses not to actually make money, despite claiming they are sensible business people.
It is simple, pay ABOVE market rates. When you pay ABOVE market rates, not market rate, but ABOVE you will notice no immediate change (word needs to get out), but over time they will come back. Now if you need em really fast, that's even simpler, pay DOUBLE the market rate. If you pay DOUBLE word gets out faster and they turn up real fast.
This is fantasy yes? No one would do that right?
Well, I am on DOUBLE my rate of 12 months ago. So, for 12 months I have secured DOUBLE. I work loads of hours and possibly only have 6 months left if I am lucky on this gig. So, 18 months of DOUBLE and then I presume that was a one-off and I shall be back to normal. But they got me real quick and picked me out from 50 others (when you pay double the entire market turns up) and they already admit they got their money's worth. So, everyone has done well out of this. They would take me beyond 18 months but of course, someone else up the tree is troubled by ideology.
But this does also mean you may have to pay your current workers ABOVE due to the market, as right now if you don't do that you are now taking the piddle. Yes, that's the capitalist markets, you wanted them, well here they are, pay up or lose workers. If you can't afford that, well I am afraid then your competitors who are also suffering will manage to survive and you will go under when things return to normal.
Having lots of work with no capability is not a great message to clients.
Pay up and secure the Business or go down when things return to normal. |
Well done you but that is a very simplistic view. You think all businesses can afford to pay their workers double the current rate? We pay going rate here and hope to keep the business going to employ them for a long while. | | | |
| Small Business on 15:38 - Aug 3 with 1883 views | kensalriser |
| Small Business on 12:30 - Aug 3 by CroydonCaptJack |
Well done you but that is a very simplistic view. You think all businesses can afford to pay their workers double the current rate? We pay going rate here and hope to keep the business going to employ them for a long while. |
It's a basic but very good point. If you can't attract workers, you're not offering enough. Free markets should apply the same to labour as they do to capital. |  |
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| Small Business on 16:27 - Aug 3 with 1809 views | LazyFan |
| Small Business on 12:30 - Aug 3 by CroydonCaptJack |
Well done you but that is a very simplistic view. You think all businesses can afford to pay their workers double the current rate? We pay going rate here and hope to keep the business going to employ them for a long while. |
Then the compo can pay just a little more and take your best workers and then recruiting replacements cost more money and then it continues as a loop all over again.
This is known as being in a death spiral of the law of diminishing returns. Because you see when you have to pay the mortgage, inflationary costs and energy bills, it really is "that simple you either have the money or you don't".
Trucking companies during the pandemic said they could not afford it, then lo and behold they massively upped pay and all of the sudden trucker challenges decreased industry-wide. Still, a challenge as of course they have not gone DOUBLE ... yet.
NHS paying the market rate and lo and behold, they struggle to get staff. Both industries have money, yet one paid up and one did not.
Side-note:
Wages are way way way behind inflation, you could DOUBLE them and they would still, yes still be behind inflation even after that.
Paying more does not affect inflation, what causes inflation is pent-up demand, which in turn is due to lack of supply which is in turn lack of workers to deliver that supply (we have inflation before Ukraine).
To stop this we need to entice workers to do the work we want, the best practice for enticement is inflation matching wages. This is how you STOP inflation going up and up, the exact opposite of what the BoE and the Tories have said.
But don't believe me, check the facts, we have super high inflation ever-growing inflation and wages are way way way behind. Meaning wages are not driving up inflation so, BoE and the Tories are liars as the data does not support it, in fact, it refutes it. | |
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| Small Business on 16:48 - Aug 3 with 1761 views | Boston |
| Small Business on 16:27 - Aug 3 by LazyFan |
Then the compo can pay just a little more and take your best workers and then recruiting replacements cost more money and then it continues as a loop all over again.
This is known as being in a death spiral of the law of diminishing returns. Because you see when you have to pay the mortgage, inflationary costs and energy bills, it really is "that simple you either have the money or you don't".
Trucking companies during the pandemic said they could not afford it, then lo and behold they massively upped pay and all of the sudden trucker challenges decreased industry-wide. Still, a challenge as of course they have not gone DOUBLE ... yet.
NHS paying the market rate and lo and behold, they struggle to get staff. Both industries have money, yet one paid up and one did not.
Side-note:
Wages are way way way behind inflation, you could DOUBLE them and they would still, yes still be behind inflation even after that.
Paying more does not affect inflation, what causes inflation is pent-up demand, which in turn is due to lack of supply which is in turn lack of workers to deliver that supply (we have inflation before Ukraine).
To stop this we need to entice workers to do the work we want, the best practice for enticement is inflation matching wages. This is how you STOP inflation going up and up, the exact opposite of what the BoE and the Tories have said.
But don't believe me, check the facts, we have super high inflation ever-growing inflation and wages are way way way behind. Meaning wages are not driving up inflation so, BoE and the Tories are liars as the data does not support it, in fact, it refutes it. |
Would you be a business owner, LZ? | |
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| Small Business on 17:10 - Aug 3 with 1701 views | SheffieldHoop |
The NHS Employs 1.2 million people in England alone; you are claiming that doubling their salary would *slow down* inflation. And I suppose you also think it would be affordable, and fair? Baffling. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Small Business on 17:35 - Aug 3 with 1629 views | stevec |
Part of the problem here was the government came up with a fantastic furlough scheme for the employed but didn’t have a clue how to handle the unfolding situation for the self employed.
Employed: you get 80% of your salary up to a max of £30k. Simple and looked after those on average or below average salaries. Those on higher salaries invariably worked for large companies who either carried on working or covered the full wage for periods of lockdown.
Self Employed: many lived on dividends rather than PAYE, net result zero income for the best part of 18 months. I know many who found themselves surviving on savings and or universal credit, which was used instead of furlough for most self employed.
Can understand the fury at those who fiddled the system but by and large, the companies that went under were those that used the top up loans in part so they could pay the rent and eat, basically for those small businesses in lockdown they had absolutely no idea when it would end or what they were coming back to.
The relative stability given by the government to those employed, sadly wasn’t given to the self employed.
Since normality, or as close as we’ve got to it, has returned 450,000 small businesses have gone to the wall. A story not being told. |  | | |
| Small Business on 17:50 - Aug 3 with 1595 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Small Business on 17:35 - Aug 3 by stevec |
Part of the problem here was the government came up with a fantastic furlough scheme for the employed but didn’t have a clue how to handle the unfolding situation for the self employed.
Employed: you get 80% of your salary up to a max of £30k. Simple and looked after those on average or below average salaries. Those on higher salaries invariably worked for large companies who either carried on working or covered the full wage for periods of lockdown.
Self Employed: many lived on dividends rather than PAYE, net result zero income for the best part of 18 months. I know many who found themselves surviving on savings and or universal credit, which was used instead of furlough for most self employed.
Can understand the fury at those who fiddled the system but by and large, the companies that went under were those that used the top up loans in part so they could pay the rent and eat, basically for those small businesses in lockdown they had absolutely no idea when it would end or what they were coming back to.
The relative stability given by the government to those employed, sadly wasn’t given to the self employed.
Since normality, or as close as we’ve got to it, has returned 450,000 small businesses have gone to the wall. A story not being told. |
There was support for the self-employed in The Self-employment Income Support Scheme (SEISS). I’m a sole trader and mine was based on the average of the profits that I reported in the previous 3 years tax returns. It varied a bit depending on the levels of lockdown we we were in but was about 80% of profits for the majority of the pandemic. | |
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| Small Business on 18:26 - Aug 3 with 1547 views | E17hoop |
| Small Business on 17:50 - Aug 3 by CliveWilsonSaid |
There was support for the self-employed in The Self-employment Income Support Scheme (SEISS). I’m a sole trader and mine was based on the average of the profits that I reported in the previous 3 years tax returns. It varied a bit depending on the levels of lockdown we we were in but was about 80% of profits for the majority of the pandemic. |
I was working with HMRC when the SEISS and JRSS were drawn up. The teams there worked all hours to get them up and running and the expectation placed on them politically was almost unsustainable. There was fraud; HMRC aren't naïve enough to give people money for nothing and expect everyone to be honest. They realised, however, the priority was to keep things ticking over then and avoid an economic collapse as well as a social and health emergency.
I set up a company during the lockdown period, got no furlough or SEISS support and just about managed. I've now established some good work and turnover is up year on year. I'm protecting myself by developing European, US, and SE Asian workflow - how the UK will fare through the next 18 months of political and economic turmoil is anyone's guess. |  |
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| Small Business on 00:11 - Aug 4 with 1326 views | LazyFan |
| Small Business on 16:48 - Aug 3 by Boston |
Would you be a business owner, LZ? |
I freelance and I also own a side Business.
So, yep. | |
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