| Some still don't get it - amazing. 22:41 - Nov 27 with 3740 views | davman |
At 2-0 down the knives were out (I suspect they still are). Sheesh, I gave up before the game tonight and couldn't see anything that we could do. Like Fulham, Brentford are playing some good, tidy football at this level and will be up towards the top end of the table come the end of the season. We aren't and we won't, yet...
This team has SEVEN defenders out. Yes, the squad remains bloated, but 7 out of 11 on our "roster" is not just a slight problem. The four left include three left backs and a centre back. Yet, some slate Ollie for playing a midfielder at right back. Huh?
This is unprecedented; not because of the numbers out (although there can't be many teams that have suffered what we have over 2-3 months), but because we cannot fill the gap with a loan.
...and yet there are some still thinking that potentially four games without a win is sufficient grounds to give Ollie the sack.
Take a look at yourselves people and read Clive's match preview to see what happened last time we had a similar 'crisis'; one that is nowhere near as bad as this one.
Of course, when those players start coming back from injury and they struggle two or three games in, at least that can rely on one thing - the slagging off they'll get from some on here.
As a fan base, we need perspective here - Ollie is still doing an amazing job. Yes, of course there are things he could do differently, but it a'int gonna change the fact that this is one patched up side!
Great point tonight; didn't enjoy the game, but loved injury time; another minute and it could have been a win!  |  |
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 22:57 - Nov 27 with 3603 views | johncharles |
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| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 22:59 - Nov 27 with 3568 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Good post. |  |
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 23:01 - Nov 27 with 3541 views | Brightonhoop |
Exactly. In a nutshell. |  | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 23:06 - Nov 27 with 3504 views | WrightUp5hit___ |
Bravo sir
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 23:10 - Nov 27 with 3455 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Whilst I agree with the sentiments I'm actually getting quite bored of these posts. There will always be a small minority who want a manager out regardless. The majority I believe understand that there are extenuating circumstances. Ignore the haters and enjoy the comeback! |  | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 23:44 - Nov 27 with 3292 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 23:10 - Nov 27 by Benny_the_Ball |
Whilst I agree with the sentiments I'm actually getting quite bored of these posts. There will always be a small minority who want a manager out regardless. The majority I believe understand that there are extenuating circumstances. Ignore the haters and enjoy the comeback! |
I hardly meet anyone at the games or on the journeys too and from that don't understand the situation. I think the virtual world on these forums is out of kilter thankfully. |  | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 23:44 - Nov 27 with 3290 views | bosh67 |
Just back. My dad and I were 2 of the 7 people who stayed till the 'bitter end'.
Well I never, you put Smith in the area and you get Pavel to the byline and amazingly you score goals.
Granted Ollie has huge injury problems but tonight, for 90 minutes he was out thought and generally clueless, as were Fleming and Birch. Smith saved him tonight, mainly from his own bizarre decisions.
First half was turgid and Smithies pulled off a wonder save.
Midfield 3 just not really working as well as it did. Non existent at times leaving players to pour forward on Baptiste and Robinson, who despite the two goals were pretty good.
Second half, desperate for a change and lacking any width at all he did nothing at half time when it was obvious to most of us. He only reacted when we went one down. This is the problem, reactive rather than pro-active.
Brentford should have wrapped the game up but somehow didn't. Ollie tells us Lua Lua has hardly trained and hasn't impressed, so he promotes him over Wheeler, Smyth or anyone that can play the left side. And he plays sadly like a player who hasn't played for months.
Cousins played sort of okay first half and then inevitably limped about and forgot how to play football or mark anyone.
It was only when Pavel said f*ck you to the bench and decided to do what he used to do that we looked like doing anything, and it was also at that stage that Smith, taking more hoofing sh*te out the sky 40 yards out actually got into the area.
So 90 minutes of absolute lethargic passionless clueless widthless shapeless garbage followed by a goal by a striker who needs to be in the area facing the goal and then Brentford totally imploding and losing their sh*t to let us in for the second. Two more minutes we probably would have won.
But, make no mistake. Players looked jaded, void of ideas and void of organisation. Ollie has the gaul to have a go at fans leaving (and some will be gutted they missed the last minute come back) but Ollie was seriously looking at the board thinking about his, Flemming and Birch's P45s, because despite the injury crisis, it actually looked like the players were starting to lose the faith in the management.
Glad we came back and stopped Brentford gloating 2 nil and they really f*cked it up but seriously for all that Ollie does, pro-active tactics and an insistence on playing players out of position in a team with f*ck all width is a recipe for disaster.
Get some f*cking width Ollie. Every week we are too narrow and get picked off. Get your strikers in the area and wide players high up the pitch slinging balls in. It's not f*cking rocket science FFS!
On another note what was the ref looking at when their defender saved the ball with his arm? Stone wall penalty. [Post edited 28 Nov 2017 0:04]
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 00:40 - Nov 28 with 3102 views | Boston |
We're sticking with Mr Holloway 'till the end of the season whether you like it or not. |  |
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 09:46 - Nov 28 with 2749 views | toboboly |
Probably would have won had that handball been given prior to their second. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 09:59 - Nov 28 with 2710 views | paulparker |
I don't want him sacked , I love Holloway I think we have done really well until the last 4 games where we have reverted to hoofing the ball ,
what's done us is of course the injures but since Luango went off to Auz we have been lacking in midfield he has come back tired and sick and it shows , scowen has also gone off the boil in the last month , these two along with freeman make us tick when they have a dip in form we suffer
what's also not helped is the bizarre team selections , wheeler & Yeni up top last Tuesday was basically giving up , bringing on lua lua last night was a head scratcher and not playing with any width is killing us and making us predictable to play against
Holloway is a frustrating manager just when you think you are on to something with him it goes t1ts up and he loses the plot with bizarre team selections and formations |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:20 - Nov 28 with 2638 views | Brightonhoop |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 09:59 - Nov 28 by paulparker |
I don't want him sacked , I love Holloway I think we have done really well until the last 4 games where we have reverted to hoofing the ball ,
what's done us is of course the injures but since Luango went off to Auz we have been lacking in midfield he has come back tired and sick and it shows , scowen has also gone off the boil in the last month , these two along with freeman make us tick when they have a dip in form we suffer
what's also not helped is the bizarre team selections , wheeler & Yeni up top last Tuesday was basically giving up , bringing on lua lua last night was a head scratcher and not playing with any width is killing us and making us predictable to play against
Holloway is a frustrating manager just when you think you are on to something with him it goes t1ts up and he loses the plot with bizarre team selections and formations |
Largely agree with that, love Ollie to for his enthusiasm and ability to get players playing for the badge, but he's equally his own worst enemy.
Needs to lay to his strengths, get some width, learn from th best results (hammered both of the best sides in this division before this recent run) and stick with the results that come as a result.
Slagging off LuaLua then playing him, is classic Ollie. | | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:29 - Nov 28 with 2604 views | stevec |
Both Bosh and PP have this right.
It's not just the defence, outfield it's everywhere else bar Freeman, Scowen and Luongo who as said are also dipping, but hardly surprising.
As for the defence, yes we are unfortunate with the number of injured but out of all of them, once fit, only Onouha would be a shoe in. Perch was hated up until this season but would probably get back in on the basis we are so sh it at right back. Bidwell would still be left back and the gaping hole that allows diagonals between him and any other centre back alongside would carry on unabated. Baptiste doesn't commit any more errors than Caulker or Lynch.
If you look at the squad he had available last night, if everyone was fit, only Onouha would add anything markedly better than already existed. |  | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:33 - Nov 28 with 2570 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:29 - Nov 28 by stevec |
Both Bosh and PP have this right.
It's not just the defence, outfield it's everywhere else bar Freeman, Scowen and Luongo who as said are also dipping, but hardly surprising.
As for the defence, yes we are unfortunate with the number of injured but out of all of them, once fit, only Onouha would be a shoe in. Perch was hated up until this season but would probably get back in on the basis we are so sh it at right back. Bidwell would still be left back and the gaping hole that allows diagonals between him and any other centre back alongside would carry on unabated. Baptiste doesn't commit any more errors than Caulker or Lynch.
If you look at the squad he had available last night, if everyone was fit, only Onouha would add anything markedly better than already existed. |
I imagine Onouha, Hall and Furlong would all have played at the back ahead of Cousins, Baptiste and out-of-position Robison.
That makes a huge difference.
I do agree, though, that Holloway is prone to the odd head-scratcher. Like all managers, maybe more than some. | |
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:40 - Nov 28 with 2534 views | stevec |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:33 - Nov 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
I imagine Onouha, Hall and Furlong would all have played at the back ahead of Cousins, Baptiste and out-of-position Robison.
That makes a huge difference.
I do agree, though, that Holloway is prone to the odd head-scratcher. Like all managers, maybe more than some. |
Hall.... that's a very good point Brian. Had completely forgotten about him he's been out so long!
This is where I log off and go and have a lie down. | | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:41 - Nov 28 with 2526 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:40 - Nov 28 by stevec |
Hall.... that's a very good point Brian. Had completely forgotten about him he's been out so long!
This is where I log off and go and have a lie down. |
Take it easy, Steve. | |
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:41 - Nov 28 with 2525 views | qprphil |
Personally I think we are doing ok, it's nice to have a bit of competition for places, but with injuries it isn't happening. The game itself last night which I watched on TV showed me that our strikers are pretty poor in front of goal. The first touch was mostly awful, a few chances went begging I'm afraid, a natural goal scorer is wanted, alas trying to get one is another thing. We had enough chances to win that game, even though they were better than us on the night. | | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:47 - Nov 28 with 2495 views | Hunterhoop |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 23:44 - Nov 27 by bosh67 |
Just back. My dad and I were 2 of the 7 people who stayed till the 'bitter end'.
Well I never, you put Smith in the area and you get Pavel to the byline and amazingly you score goals.
Granted Ollie has huge injury problems but tonight, for 90 minutes he was out thought and generally clueless, as were Fleming and Birch. Smith saved him tonight, mainly from his own bizarre decisions.
First half was turgid and Smithies pulled off a wonder save.
Midfield 3 just not really working as well as it did. Non existent at times leaving players to pour forward on Baptiste and Robinson, who despite the two goals were pretty good.
Second half, desperate for a change and lacking any width at all he did nothing at half time when it was obvious to most of us. He only reacted when we went one down. This is the problem, reactive rather than pro-active.
Brentford should have wrapped the game up but somehow didn't. Ollie tells us Lua Lua has hardly trained and hasn't impressed, so he promotes him over Wheeler, Smyth or anyone that can play the left side. And he plays sadly like a player who hasn't played for months.
Cousins played sort of okay first half and then inevitably limped about and forgot how to play football or mark anyone.
It was only when Pavel said f*ck you to the bench and decided to do what he used to do that we looked like doing anything, and it was also at that stage that Smith, taking more hoofing sh*te out the sky 40 yards out actually got into the area.
So 90 minutes of absolute lethargic passionless clueless widthless shapeless garbage followed by a goal by a striker who needs to be in the area facing the goal and then Brentford totally imploding and losing their sh*t to let us in for the second. Two more minutes we probably would have won.
But, make no mistake. Players looked jaded, void of ideas and void of organisation. Ollie has the gaul to have a go at fans leaving (and some will be gutted they missed the last minute come back) but Ollie was seriously looking at the board thinking about his, Flemming and Birch's P45s, because despite the injury crisis, it actually looked like the players were starting to lose the faith in the management.
Glad we came back and stopped Brentford gloating 2 nil and they really f*cked it up but seriously for all that Ollie does, pro-active tactics and an insistence on playing players out of position in a team with f*ck all width is a recipe for disaster.
Get some f*cking width Ollie. Every week we are too narrow and get picked off. Get your strikers in the area and wide players high up the pitch slinging balls in. It's not f*cking rocket science FFS!
On another note what was the ref looking at when their defender saved the ball with his arm? Stone wall penalty. [Post edited 28 Nov 2017 0:04]
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Agree with this and Dav's post.
Love Holloway. Don't want him sacked at all. I'd keep him for this season and next at least. And we have the most fudged back line in the league, and are already one of the lowest spenders. Shock horror we concede!
My frustration comes from the fact that midfielder and attacking everyone is for! Yet we're playing without any identity.
He went to 433 last night, which I though made sense given the injuries at the back. But to play Washington and Mackie either side of Sylla was stupid. HOW MANY TIMES have we played Washington wide left of a front 3 and it not work?! And Mackie, Christ alive, he's just not very good any more. All the badge kissing in the world doesn't excuse him from not tracking back on several occasions in the first half and hanging Bidwell out to dry.
He and Wash didn't track back or work hard enough in general, which stretched the midfield 3 out wide leaving huge holes in our midfield which Brentford played through. He went 442 at one point with Mackie dropping deeper to LM, but it meant Freeman moving to RM and leaving just two in CM who got outnumbered. It got worse!
As Bosh said, what we were (and are, IMO) crying out for is some width. Go with 433/451, where your wide attackers are Wszolek and Wheeler/Shodipo/Smyth/Lua Lua/Samuel (if fit), and have them play genuinely wide like wingers. Have them work in partnership with their full back, get to the byline or near the box and deliver from there. Play with Sylla or Smith as the no. 9. Getting on the end of crosses is what they do well! Go back and think through MOST of the goals we've scored at home this year. Crosses, from wide, deep or corners. It was the same last year. Want to score more? How about we do more of that?! Have Freeman and Luongo breaking into the box to support Smith/Sylla.
Wszolek plays right wing for Poland! Yet we leave him on the bench or play him at right back! And instead we play Jamie Mackie!
When we play "352", our full backs are Bidwell and Cousins...that makes it a 532, so again little width in their half, little out balls save for hitting out forwards chests. No wingers to spread the pop out across the pitch. No easy out ball for the forward once he brings it under control. Without a fully fit back 3, I get that Ollie can't play a genuine 352 with wingers because we have no pace at the back and the CBs will get pulled wide and torn apart (Forest). Baptiste, for all his virtues, is as slow as a tree. He can't play in a back 3. A back 5, yes. Not a back 3. Same for Lynch. Onouha, Robinson, Hall and Perch probably can, but 3 of those are out for a while. So, for now, play 4 at the back with Scowen protecting. And have the wide forwards be wingers who do actually help out their full backs, don't play with their back to goal on the inside of the opposite full back, but instead hug the side of the pitch and go at their full back and whip it in. No centre half in this league wants to be defending crosses from wide areas against Matt Smith. |  | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:50 - Nov 28 with 2486 views | stevec |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:41 - Nov 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
Take it easy, Steve. |
Thanks Brian.
I'm just going outside, I may be some time. | | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 16:05 - Nov 29 with 2163 views | PinnerPaul |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 10:29 - Nov 28 by stevec |
Both Bosh and PP have this right.
It's not just the defence, outfield it's everywhere else bar Freeman, Scowen and Luongo who as said are also dipping, but hardly surprising.
As for the defence, yes we are unfortunate with the number of injured but out of all of them, once fit, only Onouha would be a shoe in. Perch was hated up until this season but would probably get back in on the basis we are so sh it at right back. Bidwell would still be left back and the gaping hole that allows diagonals between him and any other centre back alongside would carry on unabated. Baptiste doesn't commit any more errors than Caulker or Lynch.
If you look at the squad he had available last night, if everyone was fit, only Onouha would add anything markedly better than already existed. |
and Hall - would fit perfectly into a back 3.
Sadly doesn't look like we are going to see that theory tested anytime soon.
Re width - You can't play 3-5-2 and have no wing back cover, so that means 4- 4-2 and sacrificing one of our 3 best players - Scowen, Freeman, Luongo | | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 20:53 - Nov 29 with 2043 views | davman |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 16:05 - Nov 29 by PinnerPaul |
and Hall - would fit perfectly into a back 3.
Sadly doesn't look like we are going to see that theory tested anytime soon.
Re width - You can't play 3-5-2 and have no wing back cover, so that means 4- 4-2 and sacrificing one of our 3 best players - Scowen, Freeman, Luongo |
...but Hunter suggests 4-3-3 and that does allow 4 at the back and width up top. | |
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| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 14:41 - Nov 30 with 1816 views | PinnerPaul |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 20:53 - Nov 29 by davman |
...but Hunter suggests 4-3-3 and that does allow 4 at the back and width up top. |
Could work I agree, but can't try until we have 4 fit defenders though! | | | |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 15:39 - Nov 30 with 1760 views | daveB |
| Some still don't get it - amazing. on 20:53 - Nov 29 by davman |
...but Hunter suggests 4-3-3 and that does allow 4 at the back and width up top. |
Looked to me the other night that we played 4-4-2 without the ball and 4-3-3 with it, I think the 3 at the back works well with the squad we have although do agree with Hunter we lack width.
Personally I wouldn't be changing it at this stage of the season, I think playing with 1 up front might help solve the problem out wide but creates another in having no forwards who are any good playing alone up front. Switching to a 4-4-2 could work but leaves the midfield more open and Freeman having to play wide. No perfect answer to it really. |  | | |
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