| Are we safe yet? 17:35 - Mar 10 with 12620 views | stuabd |
Surely even we can't make a drama out of this end to the season? |  | | |  |
| Are we safe yet? on 14:12 - Mar 12 with 2245 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Are we safe yet? on 12:54 - Mar 12 by isawqpratwcity |
Brian, I don't want to see us get relegated. I think it would be a disaster for the club. My complaints about Holloway are that he is erratic and, on average, not very good. Combine those two faults and you get someone who will chronically reside in the bottom half of the table and occasionally spin out badly and flirt with relegation.
I've been banging on about points per game for more than a year now, because it gives you a way to assess progress. Each game is one forty-sixth of a season and by mid-September, you are starting to get trends developing. Come the end of the season, multiply everyone's average points per game by 46 and you're back to the league table.
My problem about Holloway supporters is that they don't admit to having a criterion for triggering Holloway's departure, or if they do, it is something like 'bottom three'. Well, sorry, bottom three isn't acceptable to me anytime after the first handful of games; it means you have to outperform teams above you to survive.
I've got a criterion of a points per game figure in mind that would make me get off Holloway's back for a season or two as the club finds it's FFP feet. I think I can justify it as being fair and reasonable.
Do you have a performance indicator that would make you change your mind, Brian? |
I wasn't replying to you, Isaw, just a general wry observation.
I'm not sure where I stand in terms of the manager's job this close-season. I'm not a Holloway supporter, by the way. I think he's one of us, a decent man doing a decent enough job, so I don't like to chat too much about his job security as I think he deserved a bit more than that from us doing that continually. Having said that, ig it's done calmly, as you have in your post, then I think it's probably ok.
I think Holloway has to be credited with doing a very good job in many ways under extremely demanding circumstances. The dressing room seems united, the spirit seems excellent and the work-rate is superb.
Had we, God forbid, had a negative windbag like Redknapp in charge while going through FFP he would have been whinging to all and sundry about having to offload players and not being able to bring anyone in etc etc and the spirit would probably have been destroyed and the results on the pitch would most likely have nosedived.
I think that that's a fair point to make, and I don't see or hear it being raised. Holloway deserves credit for that.
Against all of that has been the style of football, which has sometimes been ok, but often has been poor. Hard to watch. That means a lot to me.
Whatever performance indicators I might have had for this season - survival, bringing through youth, slashing wages, balancing budgets, style of football - Holloway has met most of them. So far!
As for next year, I would have to see what transfer and wage budgets he is handed, what injuries we suffer and other variables before setting any performance indicators.
But I would like to see us evolve towards a more ambitious and attacking style of football, certainly. Regardless of who is in charge. |  |
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| Are we safe yet? on 14:20 - Mar 12 with 2229 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Are we safe yet? on 13:51 - Mar 12 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
So we get to the summer and
What is the squad, what players will be leaving
Can we buy any in, how much can we spend
What's the target for next season with these unknowns?
Maybe it's just to survive in this league again relying on young players
But all this does not matter as long as we get rid of IH Right ? |
Not saying that at all, and I don't think anyone else is either in this thread recently. (Sure, it has been said before and I agree it's rubbish)
It's not either-or on new manager vs the other stuff, we need both. It's not even get rid of IH at all costs, it's just accepting that there may be better options if we bother to look.
Targets for next season are (I'd suggest) as given by AgedR. AgedR thinks IH has earnt the chance to go again and if we're talking about "reward for job done" I can see that (just). I just don't think he's got what it takes in ability our even resilience any more. It's not like he's an untried manager who has never had a chance to show what he'd be like if we stuck with him, half the point of him was we knew what we'd get. |  | | |
| Are we safe yet? on 15:24 - Mar 12 with 2178 views | kensalriser |
I'm still on the fence re Holloway. There are good arguments either way.
Highest finish we can reasonably achieve now is 13th (based on the teams above us having eratic/poor form) and the lowest reasonable finish is 21st.
Nearer 13th, I think the argument for him seeing out his term is stronger as it means he's stabilised the team, got through the injury problems and finished well.
18th or below would be poor even given all the challenges, and the club should be looking to see if there's a credible and better replacement.
Whatever happens next season will be very tough if we lose two or more of our better players without adequate replacements. |  |
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| Are we safe yet? on 15:42 - Mar 12 with 2159 views | PinnerPaul |
| Are we safe yet? on 14:24 - Mar 11 by isawqpratwcity |
It's the shit clubs below that flatter us. Twice in a month we've beaten relegation zone clubs at HQ only after them being reduced to ten men.
We're not going down this season, but Holloway's got to go in May. |
and the very decent teams we beat 11 v 11? | | | |
| Are we safe yet? on 15:45 - Mar 12 with 2154 views | PinnerPaul |
| Are we safe yet? on 23:31 - Mar 11 by isawqpratwcity |
If that is a reply to me, then don't bother, I heard you the first time. But since I last used that epithet, the allure of being a 'shit club', ie getting a point a game or less, has expanded that group from six to seven, with an eighth, Sheffield Wednesday, trying their hardest to join.
Under Holloway, we are much higher up the table than we deserve, only because the bottom end of the Championship this season is just so bloody awful. |
'Deserve'? that is utter nonsense - in a 46 game season you deserve to be where you end up - end of. | | | |
| Are we safe yet? on 16:15 - Mar 12 with 2122 views | Ashdown_Ranger |
| Are we safe yet? on 15:42 - Mar 12 by PinnerPaul |
and the very decent teams we beat 11 v 11? |
Paul, surely 11 - 11 is a draw?
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| Are we safe yet? on 16:49 - Mar 12 with 2086 views | paulparker |
we so lack a decent striker , its a shame we didn't get a full season out of sylla otherwise I think we could have been a couple of places higher |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Are we safe yet? on 18:29 - Mar 12 with 2022 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Are we safe yet? on 14:20 - Mar 12 by CiderwithRsie |
Not saying that at all, and I don't think anyone else is either in this thread recently. (Sure, it has been said before and I agree it's rubbish)
It's not either-or on new manager vs the other stuff, we need both. It's not even get rid of IH at all costs, it's just accepting that there may be better options if we bother to look.
Targets for next season are (I'd suggest) as given by AgedR. AgedR thinks IH has earnt the chance to go again and if we're talking about "reward for job done" I can see that (just). I just don't think he's got what it takes in ability our even resilience any more. It's not like he's an untried manager who has never had a chance to show what he'd be like if we stuck with him, half the point of him was we knew what we'd get. |
As unpalatable to some, it may be, I think we will have to keep our sights for next season around mid-table again.
Whatever money we have in the summer may only cover a few we may lose.
The talk by Sinton on the under 23 game was about the young players having to step up next season. I think that is how the club will have to go.
I do hope we can get an experienced goal scorer in to replace of CW, Mackie, I think Smith and Sylla will stay.
I'm sure the Olly out lot have got a hard-on at the prospect of us losing the next 2 games and will show up soon after.. as they always do. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 18:38]
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| Are we safe yet? on 19:01 - Mar 12 with 1997 views | PunteR |
| Are we safe yet? on 18:29 - Mar 12 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
As unpalatable to some, it may be, I think we will have to keep our sights for next season around mid-table again.
Whatever money we have in the summer may only cover a few we may lose.
The talk by Sinton on the under 23 game was about the young players having to step up next season. I think that is how the club will have to go.
I do hope we can get an experienced goal scorer in to replace of CW, Mackie, I think Smith and Sylla will stay.
I'm sure the Olly out lot have got a hard-on at the prospect of us losing the next 2 games and will show up soon after.. as they always do. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 18:38]
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Our sights should be playoffs. We need to start seeing improvements next season. We started off well but injures and tinkering with the team has virtually written off the season.
Eze and Smyth look exciting prospects. Would like to see them more over the next couple of months.
Ollie needs a strong finish this season to put my mind at ease a bit if he's staying in the summer. We have improved as a club, team spirit etc but obviously he needs to get it right on the pitch. We do have some good players. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Are we safe yet? on 19:08 - Mar 12 with 1981 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Are we safe yet? on 19:01 - Mar 12 by PunteR |
Our sights should be playoffs. We need to start seeing improvements next season. We started off well but injures and tinkering with the team has virtually written off the season.
Eze and Smyth look exciting prospects. Would like to see them more over the next couple of months.
Ollie needs a strong finish this season to put my mind at ease a bit if he's staying in the summer. We have improved as a club, team spirit etc but obviously he needs to get it right on the pitch. We do have some good players. |
But we are likely to lose a few players like Robinson and it will take time for younger players to become regular first teamers, the Play-off' s maybe asking too much in my opinion. | |
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| Are we safe yet? on 19:22 - Mar 12 with 1976 views | PunteR |
| Are we safe yet? on 19:08 - Mar 12 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
But we are likely to lose a few players like Robinson and it will take time for younger players to become regular first teamers, the Play-off' s maybe asking too much in my opinion. |
Yeh i was thinking about this. Do we start dropping players they know are going in the summer.?.
Agree, realistically playoffs are a bit of a push but i think theres no harm in setting sights higher than midtable or just above relegation.
Our focus shouldnt be just bringing youth through, our circumstances dictate that anyway. Theres lots of talk from the club about us fans being patient but they have to start improving soon. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 22:23]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Are we safe yet? on 19:24 - Mar 12 with 1973 views | PinnerPaul |
| Are we safe yet? on 16:49 - Mar 12 by paulparker |
we so lack a decent striker , its a shame we didn't get a full season out of sylla otherwise I think we could have been a couple of places higher |
or lower perhaps!  | | | |
| Are we safe yet? on 20:29 - Mar 12 with 1917 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Are we safe yet? on 14:12 - Mar 12 by BrianMcCarthy |
I wasn't replying to you, Isaw, just a general wry observation.
I'm not sure where I stand in terms of the manager's job this close-season. I'm not a Holloway supporter, by the way. I think he's one of us, a decent man doing a decent enough job, so I don't like to chat too much about his job security as I think he deserved a bit more than that from us doing that continually. Having said that, ig it's done calmly, as you have in your post, then I think it's probably ok.
I think Holloway has to be credited with doing a very good job in many ways under extremely demanding circumstances. The dressing room seems united, the spirit seems excellent and the work-rate is superb.
Had we, God forbid, had a negative windbag like Redknapp in charge while going through FFP he would have been whinging to all and sundry about having to offload players and not being able to bring anyone in etc etc and the spirit would probably have been destroyed and the results on the pitch would most likely have nosedived.
I think that that's a fair point to make, and I don't see or hear it being raised. Holloway deserves credit for that.
Against all of that has been the style of football, which has sometimes been ok, but often has been poor. Hard to watch. That means a lot to me.
Whatever performance indicators I might have had for this season - survival, bringing through youth, slashing wages, balancing budgets, style of football - Holloway has met most of them. So far!
As for next year, I would have to see what transfer and wage budgets he is handed, what injuries we suffer and other variables before setting any performance indicators.
But I would like to see us evolve towards a more ambitious and attacking style of football, certainly. Regardless of who is in charge. |
Excellent post as ever Brian. | | | |
| Are we safe yet? on 22:24 - Mar 12 with 1872 views | PunteR |
| Are we safe yet? on 19:01 - Mar 12 by PunteR |
Our sights should be playoffs. We need to start seeing improvements next season. We started off well but injures and tinkering with the team has virtually written off the season.
Eze and Smyth look exciting prospects. Would like to see them more over the next couple of months.
Ollie needs a strong finish this season to put my mind at ease a bit if he's staying in the summer. We have improved as a club, team spirit etc but obviously he needs to get it right on the pitch. We do have some good players. |
What didnt you like about my post Esox??..lol | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Are we safe yet? on 13:16 - Mar 13 with 1740 views | qprphil |
I personally think we are safe, I also think IH has done a pretty good job under the circumstances, there are a lot worse managers out there. He's not the greatest tactician, that's pretty obvious, but he cares and that's important. The work rate from the players I hear is excellent, so they want to play for him, had we had someone else in charge, we may of been in the bottom three now. We all know we are paying the price for all the earlier cock ups in the Premier League. The owners are still here, and I personally are very happy with them, we also have a few young players coming on. I feel we could be in a very good place in the next few years if we carry on as we are. | | | |
| Are we safe yet? on 21:41 - Mar 13 with 1689 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Oh yes  | |
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| Are we safe yet? on 21:50 - Mar 13 with 1633 views | essextaxiboy |
A top half finish is a reasonable target and together with being safe before Easter and actually getting some young players in the first team would be decent season IMO
Well done Ollie and the lads tonight |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:03 - Mar 13 with 1586 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Are we safe yet? on 22:24 - Mar 12 by PunteR |
What didnt you like about my post Esox??..lol |
I wrote a lengthy reply explaining but it got lost when the forum broke but in summary, it was only the 1st sentence. The rest was fine IMO. [Post edited 13 Mar 2018 22:04]
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| The grass is always greener. |
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| Are we safe yet? on 22:19 - Mar 13 with 1515 views | Lblock |
Off we can mind this gap now for 3 games then it’s all done
A win on Saturday and defeats for bottom three and I’d say the horses are stabled and hosed down
So come on Foolham, lay down and take what’s coming |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Are we safe yet? on 00:07 - Mar 14 with 1403 views | isawqpratwcity |
I'm sure a few people are waiting for me to post here again.
After tonight's result, there is no way Holloway will be replaced at the end of the season.
And, unless he goes on one of his trademark bad runs, I will not be calling for him to be replaced this summer.
I do not retract my criticisms of Holloway. He is erratic, and on average, not very good. That has not changed. But I said I had a number in mind to get me off his back, and tonight, he near enough got there.
I still do not understand how we go from a seriously underwhelming win on Saturday to tonight's result. That is still a valid criticism of the manager. It suggests that the team has much, much greater potential than it exhibits most of the time, and the previously mentioned wins over the top two teams reinforce that thought, similarly after the consecutive Reading and Fulham games last season. If Holloway can overcome this critical failing in his management, he could become one of our best managers. |  |
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| Are we safe yet? on 00:31 - Mar 14 with 1358 views | wombat |
| Are we safe yet? on 00:07 - Mar 14 by isawqpratwcity |
I'm sure a few people are waiting for me to post here again.
After tonight's result, there is no way Holloway will be replaced at the end of the season.
And, unless he goes on one of his trademark bad runs, I will not be calling for him to be replaced this summer.
I do not retract my criticisms of Holloway. He is erratic, and on average, not very good. That has not changed. But I said I had a number in mind to get me off his back, and tonight, he near enough got there.
I still do not understand how we go from a seriously underwhelming win on Saturday to tonight's result. That is still a valid criticism of the manager. It suggests that the team has much, much greater potential than it exhibits most of the time, and the previously mentioned wins over the top two teams reinforce that thought, similarly after the consecutive Reading and Fulham games last season. If Holloway can overcome this critical failing in his management, he could become one of our best managers. |
Can’t see anyone finding fault in tonight’s performance let alone result , it was a strange set up manning and pavel starting off on the wrong wings , and we got that all important early goal , we battled we sat we broke , we stopped villa playing for nigh on the entire game , furlong Manning Eze all superb back four solid , Ollie threw a curve ball tonight and it worked brilliantly , he’s done what’s been asked of us unearther a gem in eze , players want to work for him he don’t always get it right and the football sometimes isn’t great to watch , anyone remember Venables style of football boring as feck but got results .
Keep him let him carry on and lock eze and Robinson in a dark room until they sign new contracts |  |
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| Are we safe yet? on 00:48 - Mar 14 with 1337 views | simmo |
Closer to the play offs than relegation.... |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Are we safe yet? on 00:52 - Mar 14 with 1332 views | Northernr |
Fire him. Destined for League One... |  | | |
| Are we safe yet? on 01:07 - Mar 14 with 1311 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Are we safe yet? on 00:52 - Mar 14 by Northernr |
Fire him. Destined for League One... |
Now you come back to the thread! | |
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| Are we safe yet? on 01:10 - Mar 14 with 1307 views | Match82 |
| Are we safe yet? on 22:19 - Mar 13 by Lblock |
Off we can mind this gap now for 3 games then it’s all done
A win on Saturday and defeats for bottom three and I’d say the horses are stabled and hosed down
So come on Foolham, lay down and take what’s coming |
Mate I think you can relax now! We are 16 points clear of the drop zone with 9 games to play. Don't think the bottom 3 have much chance winning 5/6 out of the remaining 9 considering that's about what they have all season so far. And even then they wouldn't catch us if we get a couple of results.
Exhale, we'll be in the championship next year. |  | | |
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