| Gentrification on 22:13 - Jan 2 with 1361 views | MrSheen |
One of the vague projects I have for my retirement is to research and write a book on the disappearing world of clubs. Working-men’s, church, Rotary, bingo, Conservative, bowls, British Legion, chess, brass bands, even Freemasons ... so many formal and informal associations that seemed a huge part of adult life when I was growing up that I haven’t ever considered joining myself. There’s a Home Guard club holding on near me that part of me would really like to support, but another part tells me I will never want to sit on an old vinyl bench to listen to an Elvis tribute act just because the beer was cheaper. [Post edited 2 Jan 2020 22:26]
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| Gentrification on 22:58 - Jan 2 with 1314 views | Match82 |
Does surprise me a little bit that market forces don't dictate something for all tastes. If you want a old style pub with outdated and borderline unhygienic conditions, but cheap drinks and salt of the earth clientele there should be a place for that. Want a high end pristine yuppy establishment with overpriced drinks and "gastro" food? Should be a place for you too.
Given the amount of people pining for the former it's a surprise more didn't survive. |  | | |
| Gentrification on 23:31 - Jan 2 with 1285 views | GroveR |
The title of this thread probably doesn't help but you're all missing the point by getting caught up in the tired old class debate - PubCo's are property companies - you make fùck all profit whether you're selling a light and larger to Pete the plasterer or chablis to Clarissa.
You do however make a huge profit selling prime land to a property developer and that looks attractive to any government who've dropped some auld bòllocks into their manifesto about affordable housing.
As Hillaire Belloc* once said "When you have lost your inns, drown your empty selves. For you will have lost the last of England."
* True fact - Harry Redknapp signed Belloc for Rangers on a free (£60k a week, 3yr deal) thinking he was signing 38yr old midfielder Billic - he made the bench as a 4th goalkeeper in a 3-1 cup exit to MK Dons before being quietly released last summer. |  | | |
| Gentrification on 05:41 - Jan 3 with 1223 views | smegma |
| Gentrification on 19:07 - Jan 2 by qprxtc |
God help us if this was a theatre, coffee shop, art gallery or a high class sex dungeon.
They want the working class culture without the inconvenience of having working class people attached to it. Take it from them, tart it up, call it something fancy and lose all that made it something worth having. Can’t let those working class enjoy themselves and their lives.
All because they are c unts who are so tightly clenched they can break rocks in their anal canal.
They want what we have have so badly but when they nick it they have no idea what to do beyond f uck it up. Not a creative brain cell amongst them.
Working class are demonised and we are made to hate ourselves but we have a way of life that they can’t stand.
Money is all they know but that is not a creative or joyous mind and when they see people with so little of what they have living a full, happy and creative life, they come in and destroy. It’s not making them money.
Piece by piece, working class culture has been destroyed. Either because it’s perceived as a threat to society or because they have no fulfilment of their own.
All we’ll have left is Premier Inns, Tesco Metros, Coffee Shops and unaffordable flats with a service charge that’ll make you work seven days a week to try to pay.
I’m going down the pub. [Post edited 2 Jan 2020 19:11]
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You must be talking about Portobello Road, Camden , Hoxton & Shoreditch |  | | |
| Gentrification on 08:03 - Jan 3 with 1157 views | Boston |
Most young people I know have little interest in pubs. | |
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| Gentrification on 08:11 - Jan 3 with 1151 views | Metallica_Hoop |
When I think about all the small music venues/clubs I frequenteted in the 90's nearly all are gone now.
All the nice old boozers got turned into stripped to the brick wall or painted hospital white, characterless poindexter magnets. (deliberately in my opinion) No one went to these eyesores so the net result was closeure and then sold and turned in to more flats or supermarkets and flats.
It makes my blood boil.
We do however need to reduce beer tax to make pubs more profitable. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Gentrification on 09:06 - Jan 3 with 1113 views | MrSheen |
| Gentrification on 08:11 - Jan 3 by Metallica_Hoop |
When I think about all the small music venues/clubs I frequenteted in the 90's nearly all are gone now.
All the nice old boozers got turned into stripped to the brick wall or painted hospital white, characterless poindexter magnets. (deliberately in my opinion) No one went to these eyesores so the net result was closeure and then sold and turned in to more flats or supermarkets and flats.
It makes my blood boil.
We do however need to reduce beer tax to make pubs more profitable. |
On the last point, we could follow the example of Ireland and make off-licence sales more expensive. Brian can confirm this, but pub prices are about 2-3 times the supermarket price there, rather than 5-8 like here. | | | |
| Gentrification on 09:24 - Jan 3 with 1099 views | hubble |
| Gentrification on 08:03 - Jan 3 by Boston |
Most young people I know have little interest in pubs. |
Indeed. The culture has changed. The double whammy combination of the internet and a rapidly changing demographic means clubs and pubs such as these will soon be no more than fading memories. I find it deeply ironic that so-called 'social media' actually has the opposite effect to what we think of as social. |  |
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| Gentrification on 09:44 - Jan 3 with 1083 views | PhilmyRs |
| Gentrification on 09:06 - Jan 3 by MrSheen |
On the last point, we could follow the example of Ireland and make off-licence sales more expensive. Brian can confirm this, but pub prices are about 2-3 times the supermarket price there, rather than 5-8 like here. |
Not sure on that. You had a night out in Dublin recently?! About £10 a pint I was paying after 10pm in certain parts. All the locals were having a right moan at how expensive the pubs and clubs were. Perhaps the rest of Ireland is cheaper and it’s just Dublin that’s a rip off. | | | |
| Gentrification on 09:46 - Jan 3 with 1080 views | londonscottish |
| Gentrification on 19:46 - Jan 2 by Konk |
I love pubs and think they're incredibly important social spaces in our country, but in my opinion, the pubs that we still have are often much nicer places to spend time than they used to be. Opening hours are miles better, most pubs sell a wider range of drinks, often in better condition, you can get a decent pork pie/sausage roll or bit of dinner in loads of pubs now, and there generally seems to be an effort to keep toilets clean. On the downside, drink is often so expensive that it seems that going to the pub has become a bit of a treat for either young'uns or the elderly, whereas that didn't seem to be the case when I was younger.
Where I live there are 15+ places to go for a pint within a 10-15 minutes walk. 7-8 of those are fairly gentrified, 3 are absolute sh itpits that I would sooner drink in the park than revisit, 2 are boring chain pubs and 3 are good old fashioned neighbourhood pubs where the drinks are on the cheap side and as a result, you get a real cross-section of locals drinking in them. If I'm just going for beer/food, I tend to go to the poncier ones as they sell better beers, and if I want the football or cricket, I go to the cosy back street pubs where you get all sorts having a drink. All serve a purpose and hopefully they'll all still be here for years to come.
As for kids in pubs, we probably do £100+ per week on drink and food when we go out with my son. Chatting with various publicans over the years, it's that daytime/early evening trade from families that keeps a lot of pubs going. We always have books, colouring books/pens, top trumps etc out with us and keep our son entertained. Most pubs boot kids out by 7pm, so I'm not sure it's that much of a hardship. It rarely bothered me before I became a parent. I know some people let their kids run amok, but I think most kids are pretty well managed.
Not sure that having thieves knocking-out stolen gear adds much to the general pub atmosphere, but 2 of the grim pubs near us still have people selling stuff nicked from the local ASDA and Sports Direct, so it's still if you're looking for stolen pork chops, razor blades or sports socks. |
Hi Konk. It's good to see pub culture is alive and well in Brizzle. It's a bit like Edinburgh where you still get the complete cross-section of different boozers. London is getting hollowed out.
Anyway, getting the point, I could be interested in the sports socks if they're white and would fit a size 10. Preferably in an acrylic-heavy fabric. Let me know. Thanks. |  |
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| Gentrification on 09:50 - Jan 3 with 1077 views | MrSheen |
| Gentrification on 09:44 - Jan 3 by PhilmyRs |
Not sure on that. You had a night out in Dublin recently?! About £10 a pint I was paying after 10pm in certain parts. All the locals were having a right moan at how expensive the pubs and clubs were. Perhaps the rest of Ireland is cheaper and it’s just Dublin that’s a rip off. |
About e4.20 a pint in rural Kerry! Cheapest craft beer e2 a small can in SuperValu, four pack of half-litre Guinness e7.50. [Post edited 3 Jan 2020 9:54]
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| Gentrification on 10:25 - Jan 3 with 1040 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Gentrification on 09:44 - Jan 3 by PhilmyRs |
Not sure on that. You had a night out in Dublin recently?! About £10 a pint I was paying after 10pm in certain parts. All the locals were having a right moan at how expensive the pubs and clubs were. Perhaps the rest of Ireland is cheaper and it’s just Dublin that’s a rip off. |
Rest of Ireland is far cheaper, yes.
Even most pubs in Dublin are cheaper than that.
Price of Stout
West Cork - €4.20
Cork City - €4.50
Dublin locals - €5.00 to €5.50
Dublin tourist pubs - €7.00+
Wine in offies - €9 or €10 upwards
Not sure about other drinks. |  |
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| Gentrification on 11:07 - Jan 3 with 997 views | Juzzie |
| Gentrification on 05:41 - Jan 3 by smegma |
You must be talking about Portobello Road, Camden , Hoxton & Shoreditch |
I thought the same, especially Portobello Rd & Camden.
I was born and brought up around Portobello Road all through the 70's an 80's and the very thing that made it what it was (and there was nothing remotely bad about it) has been taken over by coffee shops and all that bollox. Shop owners who've been there for decades squeezed out by extortionate rates just so Starbucks and all their mates can swoop in. |  | | |
| Gentrification on 11:16 - Jan 3 with 983 views | CaptainPugwash |
Arrrrrrrrrrr...
Havin' the Peelers waitin' fer yous ter take orf in yer Landau whilst in yer cups doan help none.Oy've yet ter foind an 'ansome cab wot goes sarf o' the River after witchin' hour!
Yo Ho! |  | | |
| Gentrification on 11:22 - Jan 3 with 975 views | Konk |
| Gentrification on 09:46 - Jan 3 by londonscottish |
Hi Konk. It's good to see pub culture is alive and well in Brizzle. It's a bit like Edinburgh where you still get the complete cross-section of different boozers. London is getting hollowed out.
Anyway, getting the point, I could be interested in the sports socks if they're white and would fit a size 10. Preferably in an acrylic-heavy fabric. Let me know. Thanks. |
You're right about Edinburgh and long may that be the case. I love drinking around Leith in particular cos whether you want to sup a nice pint of Craft beer whilst listening to Kraftwerk, watch the football in a cosy backstreet pub or have a fight with a stranger in a pub that stinks of pis s, there's something for everyone.
As for London - yep, pubs increasingly seem to be a middle-class option rather than somewhere where most people can afford to pop out for a pint. I guess almost £6+ for a pint can do that to a place. I was back drinking in Soho the other week and was paying £6.50 for a pint of beer that costs me £4.30-90 in Bristol. I might as well have gone to Copenhagen or somewhere. Mental. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Gentrification on 12:35 - Jan 3 with 922 views | GroveR |
| Gentrification on 11:22 - Jan 3 by Konk |
You're right about Edinburgh and long may that be the case. I love drinking around Leith in particular cos whether you want to sup a nice pint of Craft beer whilst listening to Kraftwerk, watch the football in a cosy backstreet pub or have a fight with a stranger in a pub that stinks of pis s, there's something for everyone.
As for London - yep, pubs increasingly seem to be a middle-class option rather than somewhere where most people can afford to pop out for a pint. I guess almost £6+ for a pint can do that to a place. I was back drinking in Soho the other week and was paying £6.50 for a pint of beer that costs me £4.30-90 in Bristol. I might as well have gone to Copenhagen or somewhere. Mental. |
You'll do well to top Oslo - £12 for a pint (admittedly a hotel bar). The customer I was there to visit said "this is why you never see a sober Norwegian abroad" | | | |
| Gentrification on 12:42 - Jan 3 with 906 views | Konk |
| Gentrification on 12:35 - Jan 3 by GroveR |
You'll do well to top Oslo - £12 for a pint (admittedly a hotel bar). The customer I was there to visit said "this is why you never see a sober Norwegian abroad" |
My wife didn't drink when she was pregnant, so I planned visits to Oslo and Switzerland during the pregnancy. With her drinking tap water the whole time, each round came to about a tenner. Bargain. In my experience, it goes Denmark > Sweden > Norway in terms of expense, but London now seems about Copenhagen levels these days. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Gentrification on 12:46 - Jan 3 with 895 views | Mick_S |
| Gentrification on 12:42 - Jan 3 by Konk |
My wife didn't drink when she was pregnant, so I planned visits to Oslo and Switzerland during the pregnancy. With her drinking tap water the whole time, each round came to about a tenner. Bargain. In my experience, it goes Denmark > Sweden > Norway in terms of expense, but London now seems about Copenhagen levels these days. |
I'll tell you what is a fecker these days too - cocktails and maybe gin as well. It's not a cheap business this drinking lark. Half a pale ale (crazy) and an infused orange mulled gin - £11.00 in Covent Garden. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Gentrification on 12:57 - Jan 3 with 878 views | Konk |
| Gentrification on 12:46 - Jan 3 by Mick_S |
I'll tell you what is a fecker these days too - cocktails and maybe gin as well. It's not a cheap business this drinking lark. Half a pale ale (crazy) and an infused orange mulled gin - £11.00 in Covent Garden. |
Cocktails can do one. Unless it's a party that I can't get out of, you will never find me in a place with a cocktail menu. You wait four days to be served, whilst some t wat in a shirt, tie, waistcoat and hat fannies about making a drink and the fu ckers charge you about £64 for a bottle of Camden Pale Ale. And they always, always say "Who's next?" when they've finally finished serving the person in front. And "Who's next?" is just an invitation for the worse sort of sh its to say, "Me!" even though you've been there twice as long as them. I'm getting wound-up just thinking about it. Fuc k 'em. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Gentrification on 13:03 - Jan 3 with 866 views | MrSheen |
| Gentrification on 12:57 - Jan 3 by Konk |
Cocktails can do one. Unless it's a party that I can't get out of, you will never find me in a place with a cocktail menu. You wait four days to be served, whilst some t wat in a shirt, tie, waistcoat and hat fannies about making a drink and the fu ckers charge you about £64 for a bottle of Camden Pale Ale. And they always, always say "Who's next?" when they've finally finished serving the person in front. And "Who's next?" is just an invitation for the worse sort of sh its to say, "Me!" even though you've been there twice as long as them. I'm getting wound-up just thinking about it. Fuc k 'em. |
Reading this is giving me flashbacks to blowing my top in a fancy hotel bar in Manchester. I waited 20 minutes in vain for the chance to spend £25 on two whiskies, while the barman rummaged around for his blowtorch, snails and a tin of angel dust for the wedding group next to me. | | | |
| Gentrification on 13:03 - Jan 3 with 861 views | Mick_S |
| Gentrification on 12:57 - Jan 3 by Konk |
Cocktails can do one. Unless it's a party that I can't get out of, you will never find me in a place with a cocktail menu. You wait four days to be served, whilst some t wat in a shirt, tie, waistcoat and hat fannies about making a drink and the fu ckers charge you about £64 for a bottle of Camden Pale Ale. And they always, always say "Who's next?" when they've finally finished serving the person in front. And "Who's next?" is just an invitation for the worse sort of sh its to say, "Me!" even though you've been there twice as long as them. I'm getting wound-up just thinking about it. Fuc k 'em. |
What you need to do whist you wait ten minutes to be served is hang a fifty pound note over the bar in full view until you get served and swiftly swop it for a twenty - guarantee you'll get change back for the original fifty. Free drinks and it's legal! | |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Gentrification on 13:15 - Jan 3 with 827 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Gentrification on 12:57 - Jan 3 by Konk |
Cocktails can do one. Unless it's a party that I can't get out of, you will never find me in a place with a cocktail menu. You wait four days to be served, whilst some t wat in a shirt, tie, waistcoat and hat fannies about making a drink and the fu ckers charge you about £64 for a bottle of Camden Pale Ale. And they always, always say "Who's next?" when they've finally finished serving the person in front. And "Who's next?" is just an invitation for the worse sort of sh its to say, "Me!" even though you've been there twice as long as them. I'm getting wound-up just thinking about it. Fuc k 'em. |
An espresso martini as a last drink is a thing of beauty though. | | | |
| Gentrification on 13:28 - Jan 3 with 804 views | R_from_afar |
| Gentrification on 09:24 - Jan 3 by hubble |
Indeed. The culture has changed. The double whammy combination of the internet and a rapidly changing demographic means clubs and pubs such as these will soon be no more than fading memories. I find it deeply ironic that so-called 'social media' actually has the opposite effect to what we think of as social. |
I reckon Wetherspoons has collared the low price end of the drinking market. I was in one last month - a pub I have been to on and off for 30 years and which I did not realise was part of that franchise now - and two pints and a half cost under £8!
Hubble, your post reminds me of this tragic story:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jan/05/facebook-suicide-simone-back |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Gentrification on 13:37 - Jan 3 with 791 views | Konk |
| Gentrification on 13:03 - Jan 3 by MrSheen |
Reading this is giving me flashbacks to blowing my top in a fancy hotel bar in Manchester. I waited 20 minutes in vain for the chance to spend £25 on two whiskies, while the barman rummaged around for his blowtorch, snails and a tin of angel dust for the wedding group next to me. |
Mate, I feel your pain. I have never fully got over a birthday party I endured at a cocktail bar off Upper Street, where I think I managed to get about three drinks in over the course of the evening, despite spending about two hours of it stood at the bar. Two absolute tools behind the bar who seemed to think they were hosting some cocktail comedy circus workshop and 'putting on a show', as they very slowly managed to put together glasses of grown-up squash. By the end of the evening, I was praying for a bus to plough through the wall, even if it took me out too. And that was almost twenty years ago. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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