| Greg Clarke gone on 20:51 - Nov 10 with 1911 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Greg Clarke gone on 19:36 - Nov 10 by Northernr |
It’s not a point of view at all. It’s factually incorrect. |
That's my post convincingly annihilated - I obviously just don't know enough 'facts'!
 |  |
|  |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:12 - Nov 10 with 1888 views | daveB |
You have to laugh that a man doing a talk about diversity in football has to resign due to using that talk to make racist and sexist comments. I mean 2020 is beyond parody now |  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:38 - Nov 10 with 1827 views | Dorse |
| Greg Clarke gone on 20:49 - Nov 10 by Juzzie |
Taylor will be 76 next month. F’kin hell, I’d have retired years before.
It’s beyond belief he’s gone 40 years seemingly without any kind of re-election.
Mugabe would’ve been proud and maybe Trump should have tapped him up for advice. [Post edited 10 Nov 2020 20:58]
|
There were lots of reasons not to retire. I can think of at least 2.2m of them.
Gawd bless 'im, e' s a saint an' no mistake. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
| |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:41 - Nov 10 with 1828 views | dannyblue |
Wow. Sounds like a crook. Glad he's gone. That's quite some list Clive.
Gay as a life choice - This is a question that interests me and I'm genuinely interested in other people's opinion on it - especially someone who's gay. Why is it offensive to suggest it's could be a choice? I presume its because when homosexuality was a crime, a good argument for decriminalising was 'it's not a choice I was born this way'. But now thankfully it's not a crime, is that argument still necessary? Choosing a way of life is more empowering. And why does it have to be one or the other - maybe some people are born gay and some people choose to be gay (and some people definitely choose not to be gay - you know priests and those men who come out after 20 years of marriage and raising 3 kids)?
Coloured - using a word like this just makes someone look very out of touch. I personally don't find it offensive as I have only heard it said by older people who genuinely didn't mean anything offensive by it - they used it the way someone else might use 'black', just as a non-loaded descriptor. When I've heard people wanting to be racially offensive they've used other words. Having said that if someone said coloured my ears would prick up and I'd suspect them to hold views I disagreed with.
Women and balls - I exprect a national survey would determine the average woman would be more worried about being hit by a ball than the average man. Female footballers not so much. But was he saying it or just reporting what someone else told him?
Career interests - no problem him saying there are more south asians than afro-carribbeans in his IT department if its true and relevant to the conversation. But saying it's because 'they' have different career interests is pretty odd. Who are 'they' anyway? People don't act and think en bloc based on ethnicity.
All in all, from what I've read on the BBC, he just looks like a dinosaur who an organisation may not want as its figurehead and should probably move on, but I don't think what he said was so terrible or something he should have to resign over. I mean he hasn't said anything more offensive here (unscripted, live) than our Prime Minister has thought, written, edited and put out in the press...
Maybe it's like getting Al Capone on tax evasion. [Post edited 10 Nov 2020 21:54]
|  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:52 - Nov 10 with 1804 views | Juzzie |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:38 - Nov 10 by Dorse |
There were lots of reasons not to retire. I can think of at least 2.2m of them.
Gawd bless 'im, e' s a saint an' no mistake. |
It’s back to how much is ever enough. More, more always more. He must be worth £millions, why does he need any more. |  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 22:16 - Nov 10 with 1735 views | ted_hendrix |
Over fed fat pig leaves the money trough. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
| |
| Greg Clarke gone on 22:23 - Nov 10 with 1700 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
wether
A wether is a ram or goat that is castrated at a young age.
Sounds like self-castration of an older goat in this case. |  |
| |
| Greg Clarke gone on 22:46 - Nov 10 with 1682 views | LythamR |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:12 - Nov 10 by daveB |
You have to laugh that a man doing a talk about diversity in football has to resign due to using that talk to make racist and sexist comments. I mean 2020 is beyond parody now |
To be fair to Clarke he was diverse in practice, he managed to insult a wide and diverse range of people |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Greg Clarke gone on 22:55 - Nov 10 with 1670 views | LongsufferingR |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:52 - Nov 10 by Juzzie |
It’s back to how much is ever enough. More, more always more. He must be worth £millions, why does he need any more. |
Not sure it's about needing more. Like most dictators, he will try to hang on until he dies in order to avoid having to face any repercussions. |  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 23:47 - Nov 10 with 1616 views | kensalriser |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:41 - Nov 10 by dannyblue |
Wow. Sounds like a crook. Glad he's gone. That's quite some list Clive.
Gay as a life choice - This is a question that interests me and I'm genuinely interested in other people's opinion on it - especially someone who's gay. Why is it offensive to suggest it's could be a choice? I presume its because when homosexuality was a crime, a good argument for decriminalising was 'it's not a choice I was born this way'. But now thankfully it's not a crime, is that argument still necessary? Choosing a way of life is more empowering. And why does it have to be one or the other - maybe some people are born gay and some people choose to be gay (and some people definitely choose not to be gay - you know priests and those men who come out after 20 years of marriage and raising 3 kids)?
Coloured - using a word like this just makes someone look very out of touch. I personally don't find it offensive as I have only heard it said by older people who genuinely didn't mean anything offensive by it - they used it the way someone else might use 'black', just as a non-loaded descriptor. When I've heard people wanting to be racially offensive they've used other words. Having said that if someone said coloured my ears would prick up and I'd suspect them to hold views I disagreed with.
Women and balls - I exprect a national survey would determine the average woman would be more worried about being hit by a ball than the average man. Female footballers not so much. But was he saying it or just reporting what someone else told him?
Career interests - no problem him saying there are more south asians than afro-carribbeans in his IT department if its true and relevant to the conversation. But saying it's because 'they' have different career interests is pretty odd. Who are 'they' anyway? People don't act and think en bloc based on ethnicity.
All in all, from what I've read on the BBC, he just looks like a dinosaur who an organisation may not want as its figurehead and should probably move on, but I don't think what he said was so terrible or something he should have to resign over. I mean he hasn't said anything more offensive here (unscripted, live) than our Prime Minister has thought, written, edited and put out in the press...
Maybe it's like getting Al Capone on tax evasion. [Post edited 10 Nov 2020 21:54]
|
Did you choose your sexuality?
Thought not. I didn't choose mine either. |  |
| |
| Greg Clarke gone on 23:59 - Nov 10 with 1604 views | nix |
'Gay as a life choice - This is a question that interests me and I'm genuinely interested in other people's opinion on it - especially someone who's gay. Why is it offensive to suggest it's could be a choice? I presume its because when homosexuality was a crime, a good argument for decriminalising was 'it's not a choice I was born this way'. But now thankfully it's not a crime, is that argument still necessary? Choosing a way of life is more empowering. And why does it have to be one or the other - maybe some people are born gay and some people choose to be gay (and some people definitely choose not to be gay - you know priests and those men who come out after 20 years of marriage and raising 3 kids)?'
I think it's offensive because it suggests that something that heterosexual people take for granted, their sexuality (they just are and no one ever questions that) has a different standard to that of heterosexuality. It sounds ridiculous to say I've chosen to be straight, and that shows the level of cultural pressure that still exists to follow what is considered the norm. It also gives ammunition to those people who believe homosexuality Is sinful and perverted to suggest that they could be heterosexual if they just wanted to a bit more, rather than it's actually a part of themselves that they're born with, like skin colour or height. It's not a way of life, that's the point.
It also leads down the path of that awful brainwashing thing that some therapists offered in the past, conversion therapy, which led to people having depression and suicidal thoughts. I don't think people choose not to be gay. I think they choose to repress their homosexuality, possibly even to themselves, which must have caused a lot of harm to their partners and themselves. It's much better to just be able to be openly gay. I'm not gay but that's my thoughts on why it might be offensive. |  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 00:13 - Nov 11 with 1588 views | Boston |
| Greg Clarke gone on 20:49 - Nov 10 by Juzzie |
Taylor will be 76 next month. F’kin hell, I’d have retired years before.
It’s beyond belief he’s gone 40 years seemingly without any kind of re-election.
Mugabe would’ve been proud and maybe Trump should have tapped him up for advice. [Post edited 10 Nov 2020 20:58]
|
...huh, but you'd have been out about 24 million..and that's nearly Redknapp money! |  |
| |
| Greg Clarke gone on 00:19 - Nov 11 with 1582 views | Stanisgod |
| Greg Clarke gone on 21:41 - Nov 10 by dannyblue |
Wow. Sounds like a crook. Glad he's gone. That's quite some list Clive.
Gay as a life choice - This is a question that interests me and I'm genuinely interested in other people's opinion on it - especially someone who's gay. Why is it offensive to suggest it's could be a choice? I presume its because when homosexuality was a crime, a good argument for decriminalising was 'it's not a choice I was born this way'. But now thankfully it's not a crime, is that argument still necessary? Choosing a way of life is more empowering. And why does it have to be one or the other - maybe some people are born gay and some people choose to be gay (and some people definitely choose not to be gay - you know priests and those men who come out after 20 years of marriage and raising 3 kids)?
Coloured - using a word like this just makes someone look very out of touch. I personally don't find it offensive as I have only heard it said by older people who genuinely didn't mean anything offensive by it - they used it the way someone else might use 'black', just as a non-loaded descriptor. When I've heard people wanting to be racially offensive they've used other words. Having said that if someone said coloured my ears would prick up and I'd suspect them to hold views I disagreed with.
Women and balls - I exprect a national survey would determine the average woman would be more worried about being hit by a ball than the average man. Female footballers not so much. But was he saying it or just reporting what someone else told him?
Career interests - no problem him saying there are more south asians than afro-carribbeans in his IT department if its true and relevant to the conversation. But saying it's because 'they' have different career interests is pretty odd. Who are 'they' anyway? People don't act and think en bloc based on ethnicity.
All in all, from what I've read on the BBC, he just looks like a dinosaur who an organisation may not want as its figurehead and should probably move on, but I don't think what he said was so terrible or something he should have to resign over. I mean he hasn't said anything more offensive here (unscripted, live) than our Prime Minister has thought, written, edited and put out in the press...
Maybe it's like getting Al Capone on tax evasion. [Post edited 10 Nov 2020 21:54]
|
Exactly about the coloured thing, I'm 65 and growing up in Willesden I was always told to use coloured and not black as if you said those black men it was not nice, now for some reason it's the other way round.
I still feel now if I say black it doesn't sound right, just how it was then. |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
| |
| Greg Clarke gone on 07:03 - Nov 11 with 1502 views | Northernr |
| Greg Clarke gone on 23:47 - Nov 10 by kensalriser |
Did you choose your sexuality?
Thought not. I didn't choose mine either. |
This.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 07:49 - Nov 11 with 1457 views | Phildo |
| Greg Clarke gone on 07:03 - Nov 11 by Northernr |
This.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I hope things are getting better not worse overall. My 18 year old son and his girlfriend have a mate who is trans - another 18 year old. Watching their generation support and care for the person has been quite inspiring to me when I think what a similar 18 year old in say 1990 would have faced.
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 8:46]
|  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 08:35 - Nov 11 with 1396 views | headhoops |
| Greg Clarke gone on 18:57 - Nov 10 by Northernr |
Something about aquaducts. |
Clive - you need to drop this bit, its all water under the bridge. |  |
| |
| Greg Clarke gone on 08:46 - Nov 11 with 1381 views | essextaxiboy |
| Greg Clarke gone on 18:48 - Nov 10 by Northernr |
Look I didn't want to do this but...
- The salary, £2.2m a year, £44k a week, including a bonus of £700k+ for some reason, and a car allowance of £50k because you can’t possibly buy your own car on that salary. The best paid union boss anywhere in the history of the world.
- The fact that he’s in that ridiculously well-paid position while flouting not only the PFA rules, but also the trade union act, which state elections for the position, or nominees for it sought, every five years. He’s been in position for 40.
- Finally, under heavy duress and media pressure, commissioned a root and branch review of his shambolic organisation in 2018. As a result, said in March 2019 that he would step down along with the whole management board. Here we are end of 2020, and he’s still there.
- Jeff Astle died from/with dementia in 2002, a coroner eventually found it to be an industrial disease because of heading heavy footballs. This is in the news again this week with other cases. PFA did fck all about it for 15 years after Astle’s death, Taylor once told Astle’s widow “my mum’s got dementia and she’s never headed a ball in her life”. When a belated 22 month study did find a link they sent a glossy brochure out to members saying the PFA had been committed to this for 15 years. The PFA has currently only spent £125k from its vast resources on Alzheimer’s research and causes. I say again, the prck is on £2.2m a year, and the PFA has a bank balance north of £50m.
- During the phone hacking scandal, something which we now know affected many of his members, he accepted a £700k personal payment from News International to say nothing about it, or how his own phone had been tapped. News International lawyers later told a Commons Select Committee he told them he wanted to be “vindicated… or made rich”.
- The PFA has a painting in its headquarters worth £2m. It pays for Taylor to have a box at Manchester City worth £70,000 a season. It contributes just £125,000 to the Kick It Out racism organisation.
- Channel 4’s Dispatches revealed in 1997 that Barry Bennell had been habitually and ritualistically molesting young boys at Crewe and other clubs. Dispatches took its findings to Taylor and the PFA, requesting comment and action. They said they found "no willingness to investigate". The PFA did and said nothing about it until Ashley Westwood took it to the Guardian two decades later.
- Gambling, another highly controversial element of our sport regarding sponsorship, and an addiction that again afflicts many current and former footballers. Taylor’s leadership on this consists of £4m- worth of bets placed on the outcome of matches, and a debt to a bookmaker north of £100,000.
- Compared the search for justice of Ched Evans — initially convicted of rape, acquitted on appeal, but still somebody who quietly slid into the back of a girl his mate had picked up in a kebab shop while his brother, a school teacher, filmed from the Travelodge window on his phone — with that of the Hillsborough families. Had to apologise for that one, as you would. A very sincere and heartfelt apology it was too. Oh no, wait: "The point I was making was not to embarrass or upset anybody at all among the Liverpool supporters. I’m very much an admirer of them and they know that. That was never my intention but it was the fact that how things at one time can be perceived one way but come out very differently with the passage of time. If people feel that way about what I said, I can only apologise.”
- Banned Rachel Anderson, at the time the country’s only female football agent, from the PFA annual dinner because it was “blokes only”. When called on it refused to back down, saying there was no room, and sex discrimination laws didn't apply to private events. When fought on it fought back, all the way to the High Court, where, of course, Anderson won. Mysoginistic wnkr.
- In the wake of the John Terry and Luis Suarez race cases, hired Reginald D Hunter to do the stand up at that same PFA dinner again. Sent Clarke Carlisle out to apologise for all the subsequent “nggr” references.
- When journeyman footballer and law student Ben Purkiss became PFA chairman and started asking long overdue questions about all of the above, Taylor and the organisation instructed lawyers because he’d taken up a non-contract playing deal at Walsall, which technically precluded him from being chairman. Purkiss won that one, because non-contract players had been chairmen and members before, and the PFA knew his situation when he was appointed. Still, you lose some, you lose some.
- Breached charity commission rules by allowing Paul Elliott to remain a trustee after an IVA.
- After further digging the Charity Commission discovered the PFA’s charitable arm was declaring staff costs of £3.8m a year, but employing a staff of 0 (zero). Investigation launched.
- PFA was criticised by scores of former players for handing out “ruinous financial advice” via its financial arm which left them destitute in retirement.
- A letter was signed by 200 current and former professionals demanding Taylor resigned. Perhaps most damningly of all, Harry Redknapp and Sam Allardyce were first out in public support.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Pick that one out ..... |  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:01 - Nov 11 with 1352 views | Konk |
That's quite a list, there, Northernr.
Of all the shysters, grifters, parasites and ar seholes in football, Gordon Taylor is easily the one who winds me up the most. And given how strongly I dislike most administrators, agents, owners, Dennis Wise and John Terry, that is really saying something. And surely only a contrarian could attempt to defend him or his record. He's a scandalous cu nt. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
| |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:07 - Nov 11 with 1345 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Greg Clarke gone on 17:46 - Nov 10 by Northernr |
No surprise there. Saw some of his appearance at lunch time and it was like watching a guy deliberately try to get fired. What can I say to make sure? Oh yeh, let's chuck a bit about coloureds in there, let's chuck that old thing about girls not wanting the ball kicked at them, nice bit about the whole FA IT department being Asian, that ought to do it.
Sadly it's distracted all attention and cover away from Parry from EFL and Masters from the Premier League which was quite distrubing in parts and project big picture and other issues as well. |
Much like BLM was used (very successfully) by the people at the top to distract attention from the mishaps of Dominic Cummings (that had turned into a right old furore, but then just simply disappeared from the news once the BLM stuff kicked of), has Greg Clarke gone out and done this (for suitable reward perhaps?) to distract attention from Parry and project big picture, etc? | | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:13 - Nov 11 with 1334 views | Northernr |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:07 - Nov 11 by The_Beast1976 |
Much like BLM was used (very successfully) by the people at the top to distract attention from the mishaps of Dominic Cummings (that had turned into a right old furore, but then just simply disappeared from the news once the BLM stuff kicked of), has Greg Clarke gone out and done this (for suitable reward perhaps?) to distract attention from Parry and project big picture, etc? |
I'm not sure Greg Clarke is that bright mate. | | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:24 - Nov 11 with 1299 views | StanFan |
The thing that shocks me is that this is the only way to get rid of incompetent dinosaurs now. Whatever happened to performance reviews and getting rid of people because they are doing an appalling job? |  | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:27 - Nov 11 with 1294 views | Northernr |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:24 - Nov 11 by StanFan |
The thing that shocks me is that this is the only way to get rid of incompetent dinosaurs now. Whatever happened to performance reviews and getting rid of people because they are doing an appalling job? |
In politics even this isn't enough now. Just say "i misspoke" and "I consider the matter closed" and plough on. Chuck in some whataboutery if criticism persists. | | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:32 - Nov 11 with 1279 views | gazza1 |
I thought this was a Clarke thread not a Gordon Taylor one.......
Short and sweet from me.......politically correctness has a lot to answer for - Clarke hasn't really done fook all wrong imho. | | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:38 - Nov 11 with 1256 views | dannyblue |
| Greg Clarke gone on 23:59 - Nov 10 by nix |
'Gay as a life choice - This is a question that interests me and I'm genuinely interested in other people's opinion on it - especially someone who's gay. Why is it offensive to suggest it's could be a choice? I presume its because when homosexuality was a crime, a good argument for decriminalising was 'it's not a choice I was born this way'. But now thankfully it's not a crime, is that argument still necessary? Choosing a way of life is more empowering. And why does it have to be one or the other - maybe some people are born gay and some people choose to be gay (and some people definitely choose not to be gay - you know priests and those men who come out after 20 years of marriage and raising 3 kids)?'
I think it's offensive because it suggests that something that heterosexual people take for granted, their sexuality (they just are and no one ever questions that) has a different standard to that of heterosexuality. It sounds ridiculous to say I've chosen to be straight, and that shows the level of cultural pressure that still exists to follow what is considered the norm. It also gives ammunition to those people who believe homosexuality Is sinful and perverted to suggest that they could be heterosexual if they just wanted to a bit more, rather than it's actually a part of themselves that they're born with, like skin colour or height. It's not a way of life, that's the point.
It also leads down the path of that awful brainwashing thing that some therapists offered in the past, conversion therapy, which led to people having depression and suicidal thoughts. I don't think people choose not to be gay. I think they choose to repress their homosexuality, possibly even to themselves, which must have caused a lot of harm to their partners and themselves. It's much better to just be able to be openly gay. I'm not gay but that's my thoughts on why it might be offensive. |
Thanks for engaging seriously.
I don't take heterosexuality for granted. It has many colours. As many flavours as there are people. Monogamy, promiscuity, dominant, submissive, loving, angry, preferring older or younger, larger or skinnier, lots of sex, little sex, quickies and long drawn out, public, group etc. And preferences change over time.
And while these drives may be long standing, I don't think people are born with them necessarily. They're shaped by experience, psychology, opportunity and fantasy and, yes, to a certain extent, choice - since people might explore one thing more and shy away from something else.
Among my gay friends, one remembers a specific occasion in his early twenties when he realised he fancied a man, liked it, and explored further. Another was always gay as long as he can remember. Another basically just fúcks anything he can get his hands on male or female.
The old nature vs nurture thing, with an added element of agency. And as ever I think the real answer is not one or the other.
I still think at root the antipathy to the idea that being gay can be a choice - no matter how well intentioned - stems from a feeling that it's not fine / it's 'other', and so it needs the excuse of being born that way to make it acceptable. As you say if it's a choice that gives room for harmful conversion therapies and ideas of sinfulness - so this idea of it not being a choice still seems to be a defence against nasty bigots.
But it doesn't need an excuse! Love is a spectrum! Sex positive! Just make love however you want (consenting adult disclaimer)!
Back to topic, I very much doubt Mr. Clarke was thinking along these lines. | | | |
| Greg Clarke gone on 09:39 - Nov 11 with 1249 views | actonman |
| Greg Clarke gone on 00:19 - Nov 11 by Stanisgod |
Exactly about the coloured thing, I'm 65 and growing up in Willesden I was always told to use coloured and not black as if you said those black men it was not nice, now for some reason it's the other way round.
I still feel now if I say black it doesn't sound right, just how it was then. |
Same here , I’m 47 and that’s what it was like when I grew up ?
I can see how it’s might be a bit confusing to an old dinosaur now though
Person of colour .. ok
He / she is coloured ... not ok |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
