| Sinclair Armstrong 14:00 - Jan 20 with 9712 views | DubaiR |
The lad we signed from Shamrock apparently off as wont sign a new deal and City, Celtic among others want him.
Anyone seen anything of him for the U18? |  | | |  |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:04 - Feb 5 with 3596 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 19:27 - Feb 5 by bosh67 |
On the other hand a slightly better deal for the club. Everton paid us £4 million for him so we did quite well out of that one. About 5 times what we got for BOS. |
A decent deal for the club, I guess, albeit rather less so at 1.5m. But, my point is, what/who is a football club run for? It's a rather less good deal for the fans, who, call me old-fashioned again, in my case at least might like to have seen him actually play for us for what in modern football would be an eternity - you know, a season or two. Pretty soon we won't even need a 'family stand' as kids simply won't fall in love with a club that doesn't hold a squad and playing style together.
'Vox clamantis in deserto' really ought to be chiselled on my gravestone! |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:23 - Feb 5 with 3518 views | EalingHoop81 |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 19:56 - Feb 5 by Northernr |
I believe the situation here is he doesn't really want to sign up long term. He's got uber interest, he only wanted to sign a one year first time around. I wouldn't get too attached. |
There are a few things that aren’t quite stacking up for me at the moment. There appears to be a lot of interest in him from big clubs and he must be pretty self assured of his ability to not want a longer contract etc. Given the risk of injury etc and that he’s only 17 and seems to be pretty sensible you would expect he would want a longer deal to guarantee salary whilst he’s young knowing if he’s amazing he’ll be sold. Further, why accept the one year option as it gives him not guarantees - just sign a 2.5 year deal (unless the club didn’t want to do so).
Finally if he is that good and he looks a big lad (i.e. big enough to play men’s football) why is he currently in the under 18s, when for example Alfa has been in the first team squad. Surely he should at least be in the u23s if he’s that good? [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 20:28]
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:25 - Feb 5 with 3507 views | aston_hoop |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:23 - Feb 5 by EalingHoop81 |
There are a few things that aren’t quite stacking up for me at the moment. There appears to be a lot of interest in him from big clubs and he must be pretty self assured of his ability to not want a longer contract etc. Given the risk of injury etc and that he’s only 17 and seems to be pretty sensible you would expect he would want a longer deal to guarantee salary whilst he’s young knowing if he’s amazing he’ll be sold. Further, why accept the one year option as it gives him not guarantees - just sign a 2.5 year deal (unless the club didn’t want to do so).
Finally if he is that good and he looks a big lad (i.e. big enough to play men’s football) why is he currently in the under 18s, when for example Alfa has been in the first team squad. Surely he should at least be in the u23s if he’s that good? [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 20:28]
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He played for the U23s today who beat Millwall 1-0 (another goal for Manasse Mampala). The real hope for me is that if he is as good as he is being touted to be, he can see there is a clear pathway to the first team and with getting game time, he might see that as better for his career ultimately than going to a Prem side and spending time on loan at Rochdale and the German second division for 6 years of his life. |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:35 - Feb 5 with 3477 views | actonman |
Bare with me as I’ve had a few and don’t know the ins and outs but how can a player so young not be able to be signed up properly until he is over 18 , bigger clubs can swoop in because they are grade a facilities or whatever that bllox !
That Jude Bellingham at Birmingham was sold for 20 odd million , had his shirt retired and given a blow job by the chairman’s wife without a sniff of Brum having to worry about tribunals and such |  | | |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:38 - Feb 5 with 3455 views | EalingHoop81 |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:35 - Feb 5 by actonman |
Bare with me as I’ve had a few and don’t know the ins and outs but how can a player so young not be able to be signed up properly until he is over 18 , bigger clubs can swoop in because they are grade a facilities or whatever that bllox !
That Jude Bellingham at Birmingham was sold for 20 odd million , had his shirt retired and given a blow job by the chairman’s wife without a sniff of Brum having to worry about tribunals and such |
I think that only applies to academy trainees and Under 16s (in non academies or similar). He has signed a professional contract etc | | | |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:43 - Feb 5 with 3438 views | enfieldargh |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 17:34 - Feb 5 by paulparker |
What do his parents feed him ???
I’ve never seen anyone as big as that at 17 |
Another BIG lad is Hamzad Kargbo , one of Danny Shittu's possibly? |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 21:15 - Feb 5 with 3352 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 19:56 - Feb 5 by Northernr |
I believe the situation here is he doesn't really want to sign up long term. He's got uber interest, he only wanted to sign a one year first time around. I wouldn't get too attached. |
Fair enough. From now on I shall think of him as our own hamster.
Probably explains why he's so massive, he's spent 17 years running round on a giant one of those wheels | | | |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 22:12 - Feb 5 with 3199 views | Gloucs_R |
Charlie Kelman, 18 months older and in the first team.
Big 12 months for him is he's going to progress |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 22:50 - Feb 5 with 3094 views | Hunterhoop |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 22:12 - Feb 5 by Gloucs_R |
Charlie Kelman, 18 months older and in the first team.
Big 12 months for him is he's going to progress |
I think we’ll see him before the end of the season if we’re safe with a few games left.
30 months means, he’s only a sellable asset for 15-18 months, I.e. next summer. Therefore, we have to give him first team game time in that time to either show everyone else he’s not ready (in case a further extension will be realistic) or so he has genuine value.
I think this is the club attempting a bit of a Jude Bellingham of their own. |  | | |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 23:28 - Feb 5 with 3031 views | kensalriser |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 20:35 - Feb 5 by actonman |
Bare with me as I’ve had a few and don’t know the ins and outs but how can a player so young not be able to be signed up properly until he is over 18 , bigger clubs can swoop in because they are grade a facilities or whatever that bllox !
That Jude Bellingham at Birmingham was sold for 20 odd million , had his shirt retired and given a blow job by the chairman’s wife without a sniff of Brum having to worry about tribunals and such |
Contracts aren't generally enforceable for minors. |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 23:42 - Feb 5 with 3013 views | californiahoop |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 18:36 - Feb 5 by stainrods_elbow |
Come on down Josh Bowler - who/whose agent, despite having a name just one consonant removed from a club legend, decided it was only worth his playing for us for literally 15 minutes or so before 'developing' at Hull City via a disappearing act at Everton's U23s (where he is now somehow injured). You really couldn't make up modern football. He's now nearly 22 and has played fewer than 30 pro games, for the record - barely one for every year of his life. Clive should really do an interview with him + agent, and just divide it into easy sections: 'development' (with quotation marks), greed, stupidity and the modern game. (I'll supply the hissing.) [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 18:37]
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Badly advised, I don’t even think he left for that much more? | | | |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 10:17 - Feb 6 with 2769 views | francisbowles |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 19:56 - Feb 5 by Northernr |
I believe the situation here is he doesn't really want to sign up long term. He's got uber interest, he only wanted to sign a one year first time around. I wouldn't get too attached. |
Uber!
It's not surprising he signed if driving a Prius for hire or riding a delivery bike were his alternative offers. | | | |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 10:19 - Feb 6 with 2768 views | wombat |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 23:42 - Feb 5 by californiahoop |
Badly advised, I don’t even think he left for that much more? |
think hes out of contract at everton now actually , lesson on hos to screw your career up in one transfer , |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 11:10 - Feb 6 with 2678 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 10:19 - Feb 6 by wombat |
think hes out of contract at everton now actually , lesson on hos to screw your career up in one transfer , |
You gotta love fans of smaller clubs.
I see the line about 'developing your career' at a smaller club and have a lot of time for it. But not by a long chalk is it a hard and fast rule. For a start, Everton have an excellent academy and a clear pathway to the first team that regularly produces first team players and has done for many years. Given the choice between that and us, and given the chance to work with Ronald Koeman, it seems just a teensy bit harsh to slag off the player and the agent. Yes, there are certainly examples of young players moving early and disappearing: our own Dean Parrett, Bostock, and now Bowler.
But two things here: first, you pre-suppose that the player would have had a better career playing first team football at a lower level. That's an assumption, not a guarantee. Angelo Balanta, to give an example, looked a very good player on debut at 17/18 but ended up in non league football. Second, it also works: Kyle Walker left Sheffield early and became a great player, even if it was via a loan with us. And anyone heard of Raheem Sterling? Would he have been better off dogging about in the lower reaches of the championship with us for a few years to 'develop his career'? Not that Bowler is close to Sterling's level, but still.
I totally get and to some extent agree with Clive's 'nice Academy boys' line, but I also think it's one-sided. Alexander-Arnold, Sterling, Mount, Foden, Sancho, Rashford etc are all 'nice Academy boys' - they're also excellent young players on a par with the higher tiers of young players across the world in terms of technique - something which only about 15 years ago we simply were failing to produce.
Conclusion: I don't blame Bowler, and I don't blame his agent, and there's no guarantee things would have been better for him had he stayed.
And best of luck to our new youngster! |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 11:12 - Feb 6 with 2666 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 11:10 - Feb 6 by Antti_Heinola |
You gotta love fans of smaller clubs.
I see the line about 'developing your career' at a smaller club and have a lot of time for it. But not by a long chalk is it a hard and fast rule. For a start, Everton have an excellent academy and a clear pathway to the first team that regularly produces first team players and has done for many years. Given the choice between that and us, and given the chance to work with Ronald Koeman, it seems just a teensy bit harsh to slag off the player and the agent. Yes, there are certainly examples of young players moving early and disappearing: our own Dean Parrett, Bostock, and now Bowler.
But two things here: first, you pre-suppose that the player would have had a better career playing first team football at a lower level. That's an assumption, not a guarantee. Angelo Balanta, to give an example, looked a very good player on debut at 17/18 but ended up in non league football. Second, it also works: Kyle Walker left Sheffield early and became a great player, even if it was via a loan with us. And anyone heard of Raheem Sterling? Would he have been better off dogging about in the lower reaches of the championship with us for a few years to 'develop his career'? Not that Bowler is close to Sterling's level, but still.
I totally get and to some extent agree with Clive's 'nice Academy boys' line, but I also think it's one-sided. Alexander-Arnold, Sterling, Mount, Foden, Sancho, Rashford etc are all 'nice Academy boys' - they're also excellent young players on a par with the higher tiers of young players across the world in terms of technique - something which only about 15 years ago we simply were failing to produce.
Conclusion: I don't blame Bowler, and I don't blame his agent, and there's no guarantee things would have been better for him had he stayed.
And best of luck to our new youngster! |
Very reasoned post as ever, Antti. |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 13:18 - Feb 6 with 2501 views | kensalriser |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 11:12 - Feb 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
Very reasoned post as ever, Antti. |
Agreed - and don't most young players at any level fail to make it as professionals? | |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 13:30 - Feb 6 with 2451 views | TGRRRSSS |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 11:12 - Feb 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
Very reasoned post as ever, Antti. |
I wonder if the fact that so many others fail not because they were good enough but that their development is suppressed and fails due to the fact they cannot get those earlier opportunities, even though Everton is a good example of having a "pathway".
I often think though that the biggest problem many of them have that ultimately fail to make it is probably application once they get to the "big time"
Often agents are a part of this or seemingly are, as they are looking at finances early, which can be good but they soon stop answering the phone when your out on your ear I should imagine.
All that being said Bowler is still only 21 (albeit 22 in March)
The question really is when are they finished?
How many fail to make the career they ought to have done due to chasing the dream at the bigger club with the shiniest academies who end up discarded by 23 when had they stayed at a slightly smaller club the opportunities would have been afforded them.
Bellingham is an example in that surely he could have gone to a Top Academy club earlier but got his chance at a smaller club who surely paid him less and now look whats happened?
Would Bellingham have developed as such at one of those top clubs? or got lost in the maze of stockpiling? Forevrr loaned out to earn money for the club like Chelsea do?
See Foden still not really getting the chances he might - at City albeit he's played a lot of appearances but how many games were a few minutes cameo? |  | | |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 15:11 - Jun 26 with 1889 views | BazzeR |
Good time for this young player to make a name for himself ? | | | |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 16:17 - Jun 26 with 1663 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 15:11 - Jun 26 by BazzeR |
Good time for this young player to make a name for himself ? |
Good point, BazzeR.
He's just turned 18, I see. Still very young. Will be interesting to see if he appears in the first team friendlies. That could be an indicator as to where his development lies at the moment. | |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 16:32 - Jun 26 with 1600 views | MedwayR |
Could also be the idea behind loaning out Bonne. Give Kelman & Armstrong the opportunity to get minutes and learn alongside Dykes & (more so) Austin. |  |
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| Sinclair Armstrong on 16:35 - Jun 26 with 1589 views | BazzeR |
| Sinclair Armstrong on 16:17 - Jun 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
Good point, BazzeR.
He's just turned 18, I see. Still very young. Will be interesting to see if he appears in the first team friendlies. That could be an indicator as to where his development lies at the moment. |
Clive Allen was just 17 when he made his debut.
Saw on another website he scored 7 goals when he first arrived in Oct 2020 which must of attracted the big clubs.
Offy look like they are keeping him low profile as not even a photo in last seasons u18 player profile.
Excellent point on the pre season friendlies Brian🤙 [Post edited 26 Jun 2021 17:01]
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