| 3rd Round 22:30 - Aug 24 with 13346 views | daveB |
Warburton is going to go mad about this but next round will be the 21st just after Bristol City at home, we then have West Brom on the Friday |  | | |  |
| 3rd Round on 22:34 - Aug 24 with 6027 views | Logman |
If we can get one or two in and get all the U23's back then I imagine only 5 or 6 1st team starters will feature. And they can be the young ones. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 22:42 - Aug 24 with 5939 views | daveB |
| 3rd Round on 22:34 - Aug 24 by Logman |
If we can get one or two in and get all the U23's back then I imagine only 5 or 6 1st team starters will feature. And they can be the young ones. |
kind of hope we get a lower league or championship side at home to make it easier to mix the team up. if we got a Premier League side he won't want to let the kids get a hiding | | | |
| 3rd Round on 09:06 - Aug 25 with 5203 views | davman |
Just imagine if the game gets selected for Sky coverage and has to be on Weds!
Then imagine if it up north...
Although this squad amazingly survived last season's schedule, it is looking a little more fragile this time round... |  |
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| 3rd Round on 09:15 - Aug 25 with 5157 views | saxbend |
On the other hand we could get drawn away to West Brom, Villa, Wolves, Leicester or Stoke and arrange for the game to be played on the Wednesday. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 09:15 - Aug 25 with 5153 views | toboboly |
| 3rd Round on 09:06 - Aug 25 by davman |
Just imagine if the game gets selected for Sky coverage and has to be on Weds!
Then imagine if it up north...
Although this squad amazingly survived last season's schedule, it is looking a little more fragile this time round... |
we also went out of the cup in the first round last season - that would have given us a weeks rest for Coventry this time around. I think winning will be good for them, and i trust the medical team to keep the guys from burning out. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| 3rd Round on 09:21 - Aug 25 with 5115 views | swisscottage |
The positive thing is there are enough players Dickie, Chair and Willock among them that have extremely high levels of fitness enabling them to play these schedules, that it still allows us to field strong enough teams in the cup matches whilst still allowing the more fragile players a chance to rest.
A Cup run for us is massive financially and may mean the difference between getting good loans in in January or not to prop up a promotion push. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 09:24 - Aug 25 with 5088 views | francisbowles |
Surely, at this stage of the season and having scheduled us to play on Friday, this will be on the Tuesday. It is not as if we have a backlog of fixtures and need to play at less than the 72 hour (ish) 'ideal minimum' rest period between matches. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 10:00 - Aug 25 with 4904 views | dmm |
| 3rd Round on 09:21 - Aug 25 by swisscottage |
The positive thing is there are enough players Dickie, Chair and Willock among them that have extremely high levels of fitness enabling them to play these schedules, that it still allows us to field strong enough teams in the cup matches whilst still allowing the more fragile players a chance to rest.
A Cup run for us is massive financially and may mean the difference between getting good loans in in January or not to prop up a promotion push. |
You say a cup run is massive financially, but is it? I honestly don't know. I do know that playing at the KPFS doesn't generate a lot of revenue, perhaps none at all when attendance is low, but of course TV coverage does pay when it happens.
Do you have the figures a club receives in a Dead Water Buffalo cup run? |  | | |
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| 3rd Round on 10:04 - Aug 25 with 4878 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| 3rd Round on 10:00 - Aug 25 by dmm |
You say a cup run is massive financially, but is it? I honestly don't know. I do know that playing at the KPFS doesn't generate a lot of revenue, perhaps none at all when attendance is low, but of course TV coverage does pay when it happens.
Do you have the figures a club receives in a Dead Water Buffalo cup run? |
Well, we qualify for Europe when we win... |  |
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| 3rd Round on 10:05 - Aug 25 with 4854 views | stainrods_elbow |
The club and its manager should be starting to get excited about all the benefits of a cup run, not submitting to fan-fuelled hysteria about a potentially tightly scheduled midweek game. |  |
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| 3rd Round on 10:27 - Aug 25 with 4761 views | CiderwithRsie |
| 3rd Round on 10:05 - Aug 25 by stainrods_elbow |
The club and its manager should be starting to get excited about all the benefits of a cup run, not submitting to fan-fuelled hysteria about a potentially tightly scheduled midweek game. |
We should be excited but it is not hysteria to understand the need to manage physical demands on players. Warburton's whole approach to selection and substitutions has been explicitly built on it and has been vindicated massively. Our transfer policy accepts that on one of the smallest budgets in the league we have to gamble on players with doubtful injury records and have a small squad compared to our direct rivals.
So please don't pretend fitness levels don't matter or are unaffected by frequency of matches. Excitement is building and that's helpful; but assuming that a cup run with this squad, while pushing for promotion, is routine risks toys being thrown out of the pram if we get knocked out. It is fine to manage expectations to avoid that.
A cup run is perfectly feasible and the icing on the cake but the cake is promotion, which could transform the club's finances for the foreseeable future if properly managed. Absolutely bloody nothing must jeopardise that. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 10:32 - Aug 25 with 4723 views | toboboly |
I would like Spurs at home, it's my father-in-laws team, they won't take it seriously, we will beat them, I will have years of enjoyment. | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| 3rd Round on 11:27 - Aug 25 with 4576 views | swisscottage |
| 3rd Round on 10:00 - Aug 25 by dmm |
You say a cup run is massive financially, but is it? I honestly don't know. I do know that playing at the KPFS doesn't generate a lot of revenue, perhaps none at all when attendance is low, but of course TV coverage does pay when it happens.
Do you have the figures a club receives in a Dead Water Buffalo cup run? |
Granted an 8k gate at £10 per head plus concessions + £7k prize money will at best make us possibly something in the low 5 figures.
From round 3 ticket prices will increase and we may start getting bigger opponents.
Get to the 5th round and the whole run may be worth extra 200k to 400k depending on who we draw along the way and any TV revenue.
That finances an extra loan play for the 2nd half of the season. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 11:28]
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| 3rd Round on 14:14 - Aug 25 with 4345 views | Northernr |
There are three Prem games that Sunday I think so if we were to draw one of them then either us or them is going to have a 48 hour gap, them if it's played Tuesday or us if it's played Wednesday. |  | | |
| 3rd Round on 14:30 - Aug 25 with 4267 views | stainrods_elbow |
| 3rd Round on 10:27 - Aug 25 by CiderwithRsie |
We should be excited but it is not hysteria to understand the need to manage physical demands on players. Warburton's whole approach to selection and substitutions has been explicitly built on it and has been vindicated massively. Our transfer policy accepts that on one of the smallest budgets in the league we have to gamble on players with doubtful injury records and have a small squad compared to our direct rivals.
So please don't pretend fitness levels don't matter or are unaffected by frequency of matches. Excitement is building and that's helpful; but assuming that a cup run with this squad, while pushing for promotion, is routine risks toys being thrown out of the pram if we get knocked out. It is fine to manage expectations to avoid that.
A cup run is perfectly feasible and the icing on the cake but the cake is promotion, which could transform the club's finances for the foreseeable future if properly managed. Absolutely bloody nothing must jeopardise that. |
While I agree of course is that the playoffs (or better) are the main goal, all the politics about 'managing expectations' (which is what, with the complicity of the FA and EFL, has led, in recent years, to both major domestic cups being disgracefully eroded) are culturally conditioned variables, not some kind of objective science.
For the benefit of younger posters who may not remember, in 1976/77 we had a first-team squad of 19, with which we 'managed' 42 league games, 8 UEFA cup games, 7 League Cup games and 2 FA Cup games. By my maths, that's 59 games with 19 players.
And I'll bet anyone my car that Dave Sexton didn't complain about fixture congestion once, let alone use it to excuse a bad half.
The game might have got faster, fitter and whatever else, but that's nothing to how self-dramatising it's become when it comes to 'professional athletes' doing their jobs. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 14:32]
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| 3rd Round on 14:34 - Aug 25 with 4255 views | CamberleyR |
| 3rd Round on 10:00 - Aug 25 by dmm |
You say a cup run is massive financially, but is it? I honestly don't know. I do know that playing at the KPFS doesn't generate a lot of revenue, perhaps none at all when attendance is low, but of course TV coverage does pay when it happens.
Do you have the figures a club receives in a Dead Water Buffalo cup run? |
Prize money's not great. Last season only had £1m prize money in total.
This was last season's divvy up:
https://www.sportekz.com/football/efl-cup-prize-money/ |  |
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| 3rd Round on 14:36 - Aug 25 with 4240 views | Toast_R |
Anyone else seen that competition Carabao are offering at the moment where you can apply to host the forth round draw from your back garden? [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 14:37]
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| 3rd Round on 15:00 - Aug 25 with 4163 views | Northernr |
| 3rd Round on 14:30 - Aug 25 by stainrods_elbow |
While I agree of course is that the playoffs (or better) are the main goal, all the politics about 'managing expectations' (which is what, with the complicity of the FA and EFL, has led, in recent years, to both major domestic cups being disgracefully eroded) are culturally conditioned variables, not some kind of objective science.
For the benefit of younger posters who may not remember, in 1976/77 we had a first-team squad of 19, with which we 'managed' 42 league games, 8 UEFA cup games, 7 League Cup games and 2 FA Cup games. By my maths, that's 59 games with 19 players.
And I'll bet anyone my car that Dave Sexton didn't complain about fixture congestion once, let alone use it to excuse a bad half.
The game might have got faster, fitter and whatever else, but that's nothing to how self-dramatising it's become when it comes to 'professional athletes' doing their jobs. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 14:32]
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Though we all wish differently, it is not 1976 any more.
It's an amazing thing to have to keep repeating. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 15:06 - Aug 25 with 4135 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| 3rd Round on 14:30 - Aug 25 by stainrods_elbow |
While I agree of course is that the playoffs (or better) are the main goal, all the politics about 'managing expectations' (which is what, with the complicity of the FA and EFL, has led, in recent years, to both major domestic cups being disgracefully eroded) are culturally conditioned variables, not some kind of objective science.
For the benefit of younger posters who may not remember, in 1976/77 we had a first-team squad of 19, with which we 'managed' 42 league games, 8 UEFA cup games, 7 League Cup games and 2 FA Cup games. By my maths, that's 59 games with 19 players.
And I'll bet anyone my car that Dave Sexton didn't complain about fixture congestion once, let alone use it to excuse a bad half.
The game might have got faster, fitter and whatever else, but that's nothing to how self-dramatising it's become when it comes to 'professional athletes' doing their jobs. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 14:32]
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All that's fine, and all that's valid.
But it ignores comparisons. If our players play more minutes comparative to their opponents then after a certain point they will be not be as fresh as their opponents and they will be at a disadvantage.
This basic truth is accepted in athletics, cycling and other field games, and it's a truth in our club and division as well. | |
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| 3rd Round on 15:07 - Aug 25 with 4125 views | Northernr |
| 3rd Round on 15:06 - Aug 25 by BrianMcCarthy |
All that's fine, and all that's valid.
But it ignores comparisons. If our players play more minutes comparative to their opponents then after a certain point they will be not be as fresh as their opponents and they will be at a disadvantage.
This basic truth is accepted in athletics, cycling and other field games, and it's a truth in our club and division as well. |
You and this ongoing obsession with the truth  | | | |
| 3rd Round on 17:03 - Aug 25 with 3910 views | terryb |
We also went from near champions in 1976 to being close to relegated in 1977.
Perhaps the number of games did have some effect. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 17:17 - Aug 25 with 3863 views | stainrods_elbow |
| 3rd Round on 15:00 - Aug 25 by Northernr |
Though we all wish differently, it is not 1976 any more.
It's an amazing thing to have to keep repeating. |
Quite so, but where are your counter-arguments to my post? I know you don't like my quoting Beckett all the time, but 'the essential doesn't change' applies as much to football as to theatre (which is a form of theatre). The fans however, are culturally mutable, and tend more and more to mouth the 'expectation management' malarkey of contemporary clubs.
Sorry, if this sounds glib or smug but I think the boot's on the other foot, and it's me who has to keep repeating myself to balance the tendency. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 17:18]
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| 3rd Round on 17:49 - Aug 25 with 3797 views | Northernr |
| 3rd Round on 17:17 - Aug 25 by stainrods_elbow |
Quite so, but where are your counter-arguments to my post? I know you don't like my quoting Beckett all the time, but 'the essential doesn't change' applies as much to football as to theatre (which is a form of theatre). The fans however, are culturally mutable, and tend more and more to mouth the 'expectation management' malarkey of contemporary clubs.
Sorry, if this sounds glib or smug but I think the boot's on the other foot, and it's me who has to keep repeating myself to balance the tendency. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 17:18]
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I will engage with this once, and then return to taking the pis out of it.
It is not 1976 any more, it says that on the calendar. I think we probably agree so far, though, sometimes, reading your posts, I'm not even sure about this.
I actually also agree, and have written many times for this site, that cup competitions have been horribly devalued to the point of extinction, in favour of league competitions those doing the devaluing have no hope of winning. The League Cup, and increasingly the FA Cup, are being ruined not by Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd etc, who still tend to contest the majority of the finals, but by Burnley, West Ham, Palace, QPR, Birmingham, Blackburn etc, playing weakened teams in them because of some perceived threat to their precious league form, even though they've no chance of winning the league. Burnley ditching out of the only thing they're ever likely to win for the rest of time, because they think it might stop them finishing seventeenth in the Premier League, which is now the sum total of their ambition. Football should be about medals, and trophies, and winning things, and Wembley, and getting into Europe. Not starting every year with the sole purpose of finishing fourth bottom, banking the money, getting out of the cups in the first round, and getting off to Mykonos as soon as possible. It's also been shown, and again I write this a lot in my previews and reports, that cup runs can be momentum and confidence building, for teams and crowds, and Brentford (sorry I have to mention them here because it's a fact they got to the semi-final last year, but please don't fixate on this word of the post again), Newcastle, Bournemouth, Leicester and Brighton all combined promotion from this league with a run to the League Cup quarter finals.
I think we probably agree on all this together so far, right? We probably part a little on things like QPR's 2010/11, where the aim was promotion, and the promotion hung on people like Clint Hill, Shaun Derry and Heidar Helguson who absolutely did not need the extra games. That team lost Jamie Mackie one year, and Ale Faurlin the next, in cup games they didn't need, to serious injury. I would potentially argue, given the aim this year, and the size of our squad, that we're in that territory again now. Johansen, Austin are this year's Derry and Hill, talismanic figures who need to be bubble wrapped. Willock and Chair this year's Mackie and Faurlin. The difference here is QPR would be ditching out in favour of something they can realistically win, as opposed to Schteve nonsing out of that Blackpool game the other year to continue our quest for sixteenth with a thrashing at Swansea at the weekend anyway. Which, like you, I was furious about, and wrote as much.
Where we certainly disagree is your propensity to don the pipe and slippers and turn every argument about everything into a nostalgic trawl back 45 years. You do it over fixture pile up, squad rotation, manager interviews and more. Well back in 1976 teams used to play 80 games a season with squads of 14. Well back in 1976 managers would come out afterwards and call their 21 year old full back a cnt publicly. (Exageration for effect).
It is not 1976 any more. If you don't want to believe the sport has moved on and evolved, is faster, is more fitness and physicality based, then fine. You're wrong, but fine. What you cannot deny is science has moved on. We understand far more about the human body and the human mind. We understand that you can't put players through 60 game seasons in squads of 14 any more without doing lasting damage. We understand you can't have players heading footballs that weigh half a tonne, and soak up the rain water, any more. Yeh in the 1970s you did a 60 game season with 14 players, and the "physio" was some bloke who ran on with a bucket of icy cold water and a sponge, woop de do, bully for you, when men were men, grrrrrr. Well, an enormous proportion of those poor men now suffer crippling injuries in their latter life, knee, hip, ankle problems that are never going away, chronic pain. More and more and more and more of them have dementia and alzheimers. You want to flog Ilias Chair to death for your entertainment for the next ten years, have him retire way earlier than players do nowadays, and then have his mrs push him around town on wheels from the age of 50 onwards then that's your business, but you should reflect on it.
You want the manager to come out and call the players out publicly, like the great characters of the past did, because you find the post match interviews boring and wish Malcolm Allison was still around. They don't do it because it doesn't work. If it did Peter Reid would still have a job, throwing crockery at 19 year old boys and screaming his fcking head off. If it worked, people would do it. It doesn't, so they don't.
They don't do any of this any more, because it doesn't work any more. The tiny squads, the no squad rotation, the same team every week, the public calling out of players, this was a thing once in the same way that they put lead in our petrol in 1976, and they put asbestos in the roof of power stations and had people like my grandad pull it all out with a garden rake in 1976, and we cooked with lard in 1976, and kids went to bonfire night parties in shell suits and so on and on and on and on. Time moves on, science moves on, knowledge moves on. We learn and we improve.
And if I'm wrong, why is nobody doing it any more? Why isn't there a single professional football club anywhere in the world trying to do a 60 game season with 14 players? Why isn't there a manager at the top of the game who regularly comes out after games and slags his own players off?
Because it doesn't work. It doesn't work because 1976 was 45 fcking years ago and things change. Whatever fcking Beckett may say. | | | |
| 3rd Round on 18:00 - Aug 25 with 3755 views | PinnerPaul |
| 3rd Round on 11:27 - Aug 25 by swisscottage |
Granted an 8k gate at £10 per head plus concessions + £7k prize money will at best make us possibly something in the low 5 figures.
From round 3 ticket prices will increase and we may start getting bigger opponents.
Get to the 5th round and the whole run may be worth extra 200k to 400k depending on who we draw along the way and any TV revenue.
That finances an extra loan play for the 2nd half of the season. [Post edited 25 Aug 2021 11:28]
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There's some prize money as well
https://www.sportekz.com/football/efl-cup-prize-money/ | | | |
| 3rd Round on 18:01 - Aug 25 with 3748 views | PinnerPaul |
Apologies mate, just posted the same! | | | |
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