| Fitness / Injury Culpability 11:51 - Jul 27 with 7858 views | Lblock |
Many would argue, and I'd agree, the first port of call for player fitness is with the player themselves.
This is especially this time of the year when some players may return out of shape - even then I'd say "club culture" contributes as to what is acceptable etc.
However, when, if ever, are the club going to accept that the whole sports science regime; combined with player preparation, recovery and indeed squad identification; sits squarely with Nourry and his bezzie mate Williams?
I find it hugely frustrating that the club continues to ignore the statement "You're best ability is availability"
Impact injuries have to be expected and accepted - part of the game and a big one at our level.
Having players like Kolli and Obikwu turning up unfit and not being able to travel to vital pre-season training campes (for the former) is a nonsense.
Losing players in pre-season games for muscle and non contact injuries is also mental and smacks of a lack of conditioning and preparation.
Then they try to go all North Korea with the punters and tell us clear hamstring injuries like Burrell's last season are "contact injuries". Farce.
Whispers are we could lose two of our more pivotal players long term before a ball is kicked in anger. It was already going to be a really tough season and this could make it all the tougher.
I really hope Kone and Madsen are fine - everything crossed.
But that aside.... zero confidence we'll have a squad with adequate, fit and robust alternatives for any outfield injury this season.
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 19:02 - Jul 27 with 2221 views | PunteR |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 15:48 - Jul 27 by essextaxiboy |
Seems that this problem has become more of an issue since moving to Heston . Could the pitches there be something to do with it ? . |
This crossed my mind too. Surely though, we would hear murmurings from the players and coaches if that was the case.? |  |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 19:04 - Jul 27 with 2193 views | Northernr |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 15:48 - Jul 27 by essextaxiboy |
Seems that this problem has become more of an issue since moving to Heston . Could the pitches there be something to do with it ? . |
I've got to say, I'd be surprised. I've been to the new training ground and it is night and day from the old. The pitches were immaculate. |  | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 19:05 - Jul 27 with 2188 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 19:02 - Jul 27 by PunteR |
This crossed my mind too. Surely though, we would hear murmurings from the players and coaches if that was the case.? |
And it's not just injuries, though, is it?
Our overall fitness has been very poor as well at various stages of the last three seasons. [Post edited 27 Jul 19:12]
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 20:59 - Jul 27 with 1987 views | essextaxiboy |
Not saying they are poor pitches, but different in composition and characteristics to your average stadium Championship pitch . |  | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 21:30 - Jul 27 with 1942 views | MedwayR |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 20:59 - Jul 27 by essextaxiboy |
Not saying they are poor pitches, but different in composition and characteristics to your average stadium Championship pitch . |
The pitches are intentionally exactly the same as the Loftus Rd pitch, better in fact as they get more light.
Although I’m sure Arsenal aired the same theory as you when they had a lot of injuries, so it’s a possibility. Doesn’t excuse a general lack of fitness mind! [Post edited 27 Jul 21:32]
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 21:49 - Jul 27 with 1907 views | KensalT |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 21:30 - Jul 27 by MedwayR |
The pitches are intentionally exactly the same as the Loftus Rd pitch, better in fact as they get more light.
Although I’m sure Arsenal aired the same theory as you when they had a lot of injuries, so it’s a possibility. Doesn’t excuse a general lack of fitness mind! [Post edited 27 Jul 21:32]
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But what does "exactly the same" mean?
It's easy to make the pitches the same size, but drainage, firmness, softness, soil, exposure to light, etc is a very different matter. |  | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 22:03 - Jul 27 with 1864 views | wombat |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 21:30 - Jul 27 by MedwayR |
The pitches are intentionally exactly the same as the Loftus Rd pitch, better in fact as they get more light.
Although I’m sure Arsenal aired the same theory as you when they had a lot of injuries, so it’s a possibility. Doesn’t excuse a general lack of fitness mind! [Post edited 27 Jul 21:32]
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Arsenal also sacked a few of the medical team last season something we haven’t or are likely to do |  |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 22:34 - Jul 27 with 1800 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 21:49 - Jul 27 by KensalT |
But what does "exactly the same" mean?
It's easy to make the pitches the same size, but drainage, firmness, softness, soil, exposure to light, etc is a very different matter. |
All the pitches were originally laid by White Horse, I think the change is now that Ben Williams now has an in house team to manage and support them both.
The pitches at Heston are built to the same spec as Loftus Road, which means same dimensions, drainage, undersoil and desso grass system, which has a plastic weave inserted every few centimetres to give the natural grass something to stick to making it stronger and harder wearing.
Like said above the pitches at Heston should be better, as they get more natural light, easier to get machines on and off and the squad can rotate their use.
We've got Premier League facilities over there now and the dome just makes it even more valuable. There are still things wrong at the club, but I don't think that setup is one of them |  | | |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 22:59 - Jul 27 with 1731 views | loftupper |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 22:03 - Jul 27 by wombat |
Arsenal also sacked a few of the medical team last season something we haven’t or are likely to do |
All this talk of scapegoats, hiring people in to simply take the fall etc.. Nourry is going to hire his mates just for what? So they can earn the same wage they can probably get elsewhere.
It could just be that its sometimes easier to trust that the people already here can fix it. I truly hope they can. |  | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 09:30 - Jul 28 with 1560 views | TheChef |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 22:34 - Jul 27 by nick_hammersmith |
All the pitches were originally laid by White Horse, I think the change is now that Ben Williams now has an in house team to manage and support them both.
The pitches at Heston are built to the same spec as Loftus Road, which means same dimensions, drainage, undersoil and desso grass system, which has a plastic weave inserted every few centimetres to give the natural grass something to stick to making it stronger and harder wearing.
Like said above the pitches at Heston should be better, as they get more natural light, easier to get machines on and off and the squad can rotate their use.
We've got Premier League facilities over there now and the dome just makes it even more valuable. There are still things wrong at the club, but I don't think that setup is one of them |
Er yeah - it might just be that Bicycle Ben and co. are not very good at their jobs. |  |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 10:00 - Jul 28 with 1518 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Here's a theory. Both Madsen and Kone were played way to much last season, something on here we were all concerned about.
Low and behold those two both pick up knocks. Rather than the fitness team I'm sure this is more a recruitment issue; namely we don't have decent replacements for either of them, hence they're almost played to death. | |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 10:16 - Jul 28 with 1482 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 09:30 - Jul 28 by TheChef |
Er yeah - it might just be that Bicycle Ben and co. are not very good at their jobs. |
Yeah, I think I'm with you Chef!
I think Ben Williams is a charlatan, I was very unimpressed by the way he spoke on one of the pods. I can't stand to be patronised.
"Now for the science bit"
I think he is a bullsh1tter who will be found out. I can't stand the world of high performance, which has given cretins like Jake Humphries a platform and a living.
I don't see how running a cycling team has translated into being able to manage sports turf, facilities and beyond.
Being allowed to dress down young players in the canteen in front of their peers is disgraceful behaviour and in many other professions this would be met with serious disciplinary results.
Sorry, I should have been clearer, I don't think there is any reason within the infrastructure for a lack of fitness or increase in non-contact fitness. This rests squarely with the performance team, and if we have another season like the last two I expect changes to be made.
There is a case to be made that this has directly affected our bottom line. You could imagine that either Kone or Burrell would have been good candidates to sell this summer, but failure to protect their fitness has devalued their worth in the market.
Lets see once the season starts, I really hope I'm wrong and we come out of the blocks flying. On paper we have some favourable fixtures against teams that finished lower than us, lets not start undercooked for once.
Points gained at the start of the season are just as valuable as the points at the end of the season. This is a football season not the Tour de France! | | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 10:33 - Jul 28 with 1414 views | thehat |
Something is not right - Do the players warm up properly before training and matches. I never really see the players do a lot of stretches before games. The subs on the pitch at half time are a joke they should be stretching hamstrings, calfs and achilles mussels not kicking a football. Burrell and Poku both got muscle injuries towards the end of last season when they come on as subs.
Bring back Prav that's what I say - Never had these issues when he was in the job. | | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 10:38 - Jul 28 with 1390 views | TheChef |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 10:33 - Jul 28 by thehat |
Something is not right - Do the players warm up properly before training and matches. I never really see the players do a lot of stretches before games. The subs on the pitch at half time are a joke they should be stretching hamstrings, calfs and achilles mussels not kicking a football. Burrell and Poku both got muscle injuries towards the end of last season when they come on as subs.
Bring back Prav that's what I say - Never had these issues when he was in the job. |
One thing I did notice at the Fiorentina game was there did seem to be some kind of structure around what the subs were doing on the pitch at half time.
Admittedly that's from a very low base in previous seasons (i.e. fk all structure). | |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:02 - Jul 28 with 1332 views | QPRJill |
Re. Lack of stretching, I have noticed the same and It irritates me even more when a player comes of and he just goes straight to bench without stretching properly. [Post edited 28 Jul 11:53]
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:09 - Jul 28 with 1312 views | nix |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 10:33 - Jul 28 by thehat |
Something is not right - Do the players warm up properly before training and matches. I never really see the players do a lot of stretches before games. The subs on the pitch at half time are a joke they should be stretching hamstrings, calfs and achilles mussels not kicking a football. Burrell and Poku both got muscle injuries towards the end of last season when they come on as subs.
Bring back Prav that's what I say - Never had these issues when he was in the job. |
In fairness the subs were doing a lot of stretching at the side of the pitch too during the Fiorentina game, especially Larkeche,
I don’t know if that’s enough or if there are other issues, obviously.
Kevin Gallen said on the WLS pod that he had to do a long prep before training and matches - about 40 minutes to protect his hamstrings. That’s one of the reasons he retired because it became annoying having to do that every time.
I agree with Wilkins that we overplayed Burrell and Madsen for lack of replacements. We certainly looked bereft of creativity once Madsen and Chair went off apart from Poku. If we can keep him fit that would be a massive benefit to the squad. We still need another CM even IMHO on loan to make us competitive over a number of games, not just the ones Madsen can play in. |  | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:12 - Jul 28 with 1297 views | Beejnewark |
So is this signs of improvement, after, let's say, some kind of review? | | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:13 - Jul 28 with 1294 views | Northernr |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 10:00 - Jul 28 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Here's a theory. Both Madsen and Kone were played way to much last season, something on here we were all concerned about.
Low and behold those two both pick up knocks. Rather than the fitness team I'm sure this is more a recruitment issue; namely we don't have decent replacements for either of them, hence they're almost played to death. |
Comes back to my point about the development squad. Ideally you'd have a group of players in that team capable of spelling these guys. I'm not saying they should be capable of doing 30 games of Championship football and being relied upon, but coming off the bench, making half a dozen starts a season, playing in games like Sheff Wed at home which we should have been able to win with our eyes closed and instead lost four first teamers before half time. Unfortunately, despite the much hyped trophy wins, that hasn't happened yet. | | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:45 - Jul 28 with 1224 views | essextaxiboy |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 09:30 - Jul 28 by TheChef |
Er yeah - it might just be that Bicycle Ben and co. are not very good at their jobs. |
Well yes , surely it can only be what they are doing or where they are doing it , if you rule out Heston it can only be Ben W | | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:49 - Jul 28 with 1218 views | daveB |
Nourry did say they were having a review of the medical and player performance side of things so will be interesting to see if anything changes. I don't think we'll know either way for a few months but we can't go into another season where the squad just can't physically play 3 games in a week and we lose half the team to muscle injuries. |  | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 14:26 - Jul 28 with 1083 views | Myke |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:49 - Jul 28 by daveB |
Nourry did say they were having a review of the medical and player performance side of things so will be interesting to see if anything changes. I don't think we'll know either way for a few months but we can't go into another season where the squad just can't physically play 3 games in a week and we lose half the team to muscle injuries. |
I don’t think having a ‘review’ is anyways worthy of singling out (Not a dig at you Dave, a general observation). Reviews should be standard procedure as they are in most places of work. Any time the Dept of Ed ‘recommends’ something new in the school, we implement it and then take a look back, say 3 months later. What worked, what didn’t what can we tweak etc etc. In football it should be at least monthly - why have we got so many players on the treatment table? Or sometimes game by game -Why are we conceding goals immediately either side of half time? Reviews should be there to make us better in a number of small ways, not some grand announcement at the end of the season. | | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 15:00 - Jul 28 with 1044 views | BostonR |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:13 - Jul 28 by Northernr |
Comes back to my point about the development squad. Ideally you'd have a group of players in that team capable of spelling these guys. I'm not saying they should be capable of doing 30 games of Championship football and being relied upon, but coming off the bench, making half a dozen starts a season, playing in games like Sheff Wed at home which we should have been able to win with our eyes closed and instead lost four first teamers before half time. Unfortunately, despite the much hyped trophy wins, that hasn't happened yet. |
Are there any stats from last season showing how many development players played more than six games for any Championship side?
I suspect the number is low.
I watch a lot of step 4&5 non-league football and s few development players let go try to keep playing. It seems a lot of these development players just drift off. |  | | |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 15:26 - Jul 28 with 1006 views | kensalriser |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:13 - Jul 28 by Northernr |
Comes back to my point about the development squad. Ideally you'd have a group of players in that team capable of spelling these guys. I'm not saying they should be capable of doing 30 games of Championship football and being relied upon, but coming off the bench, making half a dozen starts a season, playing in games like Sheff Wed at home which we should have been able to win with our eyes closed and instead lost four first teamers before half time. Unfortunately, despite the much hyped trophy wins, that hasn't happened yet. |
I'd hope all the players are capable of spelling 'these guys', but what does their standard of English have to do with it? |  |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 15:29 - Jul 28 with 991 views | wombat |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 22:59 - Jul 27 by loftupper |
All this talk of scapegoats, hiring people in to simply take the fall etc.. Nourry is going to hire his mates just for what? So they can earn the same wage they can probably get elsewhere.
It could just be that its sometimes easier to trust that the people already here can fix it. I truly hope they can. |
as has been said numerous times this is season three of the ben williams experiment one year was spent remotely working with a side line of helping a american basketball team and that didnt go well. so arsenal saw a problem and acted upon it , we offer the same person a promotion and say carry on doing a fine job . as for the rest of mates neing hired etc seems thats also been happening behind the scenes in the last few seasons, In his time here has williams given you any reason to trust his work ? | |
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| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 15:31 - Jul 28 with 982 views | wombat |
| Fitness / Injury Culpability on 11:49 - Jul 28 by daveB |
Nourry did say they were having a review of the medical and player performance side of things so will be interesting to see if anything changes. I don't think we'll know either way for a few months but we can't go into another season where the squad just can't physically play 3 games in a week and we lose half the team to muscle injuries. |
We cant dave but we probaly will .even though this season they have had extra time for training compared to last season | |
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