| The Germans 10:54 - Jun 12 with 6286 views | ted_hendrix |
You cant watch Basil doing his German thingy sketch anymore on UKTV's streaming service as it's been taken down, as Basil once said to Sybil "What's the point, what's the bloody point?" |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| The Germans on 15:21 - Jun 12 with 1431 views | RangersDave |
'Love thy neighbour' is an interesting case in point...... racism both ways (remember the word Honky?), but Jack Smethurst always lost out. |  |
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| The Germans on 15:29 - Jun 12 with 1404 views | colinallcars |
| The Germans on 14:24 - Jun 12 by qpr_1968 |
the dam busters has been on quite a bit lately as well.
can see that being knocked on the head. |
But they edited out the name of Guy Gibson's dog, this was done donkey's years ago. Can't say I'm that bothered about a small change like that.
I suppose in the future there will be many such changes made as various expressins take on new or differemt meanings. |  | | |
| The Germans on 15:30 - Jun 12 with 1402 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I'm going to deliberately ignore the identity politics of this thread, but can I just point out that Fawlty Towers has not been cancelled just one single special edition episode that was never aired where the N word was used A LOT.
This removal was not called for by BLM either, it was called upon by John Cleese himself. |  | | |
| The Germans on 15:31 - Jun 12 with 1386 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| The Germans on 14:59 - Jun 12 by kensalriser |
The joke, as always, is on Fawlty. He's a caricature who's supposed to be loathsome and of course, has loathsome opinions.
It only dawned on me a few years that some people didn't actually understand the Germans sketch and thought it was taking the piss out of Germans rather than Fawlty as a proxy stereotype. |
Same can be said about Love thy neighbour, Till Death Us Do Part, Turning the tables on racist/bigots as mostly they were shown up as.
Warren Mitchell as a Jew, himself spoke about this many times. |  |
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| The Germans on 15:51 - Jun 12 with 1351 views | BucksRanger |
Got called a honky when I got lost in Washington DC back in the '70's and had to ask the way of a very plump American lady. Made me smile. She was as nice as pie to me once she realised I didn't have an American accent. |  | | |
| The Germans on 16:34 - Jun 12 with 1267 views | Stanisgod |
| The Germans on 12:22 - Jun 12 by qprxtc |
Fawlty Towers is a fictional comedy show. The characters in it are various exaggerations of certain behavioural types, especially British ones.
The major is a 80 ish year old man that has lived through two world wars and his vocabulary and world view are of his time.
These are characters in a fictional comedy show. Not all are going to be nice people with appropriate language. Not many of the characters in Fawlty Towers are that sympathetic but that’s the comedy of it.
Look at a film like Pulp Fiction. This has negative racial slurs throughout the film along with a high amount of violence. This can be watched on Netflix by anyone of any age, day or night. If I was to choose which I consider does more to continue stereotypes, I’d say this would. But I wouldn’t take away peoples choice to see it and make up their own minds.
Fiction has the right to portray the characters it depicts with the language that they would use. That may not fit in with the current world view but it’s not a reason to ban or stop people viewing it.
Tv shows, films, books, plays. All these things are there for us to participate in. They bring out emotions in us which is a good thing. That includes feeling uncomfortable at certain situations.
The difference is they are fictional and part of a narrative. Changing language or banning them is not the way to fundamentally change anyone’s world view but it does retrospectively change our cultural lineage.
To me these stories are important human expressions. They are not always cosy, fluffy ones. Some can make us question our behaviour and maybe look to change it.
Fawlty Towers has language in it that is out of place and wrong. But in the context of the situation, characters and time it was truthful. |
Exactly, people have to actually search for most of these programmes now on you tube or a subscription channel, so presumably if you search for it you want to watch it, which presumably also means that you are happy with the content.
I don't like Hollyoaks so guess what, I don't put it on. |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| The Germans on 16:39 - Jun 12 with 1248 views | TheChef |
| The Germans on 15:15 - Jun 12 by LythamR |
I dont agree with this rewriting or erasing. Yes i wouldnt expect a modern day comedy programme to use the terms referred to but. these programmes reflect society at a period of time and as such are important reference points and part of our heritage and shows how far we have come as a society regarding racism, hompaphobia etc, a old comedy programme or a film is not the same as a monument to a slaver plonked in the centre of a town.
If we try and erase the past how will people be able to effectively measure and appreciate the efforts of those who struggled to overcome those prejudices. |
Well said Lytham.
If you erase or censor the past, how do you expect people to learn from it? |  |
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| The Germans on 16:39 - Jun 12 with 1256 views | qprd |
| The Germans on 15:30 - Jun 12 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I'm going to deliberately ignore the identity politics of this thread, but can I just point out that Fawlty Towers has not been cancelled just one single special edition episode that was never aired where the N word was used A LOT.
This removal was not called for by BLM either, it was called upon by John Cleese himself. |
this is an incredibly sensible, measured post.
Thanms |  | | |
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| The Germans on 16:53 - Jun 12 with 1222 views | Match82 |
| The Germans on 16:34 - Jun 12 by Stanisgod |
Exactly, people have to actually search for most of these programmes now on you tube or a subscription channel, so presumably if you search for it you want to watch it, which presumably also means that you are happy with the content.
I don't like Hollyoaks so guess what, I don't put it on. |
I get where you are coming from but disagree. That's an incredibly insulting word which I think we all agree has no place in the modern world. It's also pretty fcking random in the context of that episode and is not vaguely central to the plot.
I also accept that "of that time" and for thar character it is in context for what they might say. But having it in there is likely to cause offence to people. Removing it is going to cause offence to... who?
I guess I just don't see the harm in taking it out. |  | | |
| The Germans on 17:14 - Jun 12 with 1185 views | Esox_Lucius |
To my mind, this is a diversionary measure created to provide fuel to fire the anger of gammons who are getting up in arms over perceived infringements on their civil rights whilst all the time the real elephant in the room is the historic treatment of blacks not being addressed. All the anger over George Floyds tragic death is being misdirected towards statues. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| The Germans on 17:20 - Jun 12 with 1168 views | Stanisgod |
| The Germans on 16:53 - Jun 12 by Match82 |
I get where you are coming from but disagree. That's an incredibly insulting word which I think we all agree has no place in the modern world. It's also pretty fcking random in the context of that episode and is not vaguely central to the plot.
I also accept that "of that time" and for thar character it is in context for what they might say. But having it in there is likely to cause offence to people. Removing it is going to cause offence to... who?
I guess I just don't see the harm in taking it out. |
Not talking about the N word specifically, where did I say that, I totally agree that should be taken out, but this is the end of a very thick wedge. The odd episode like that yes, but not at the rate this could happen.
What next, books off of shelves in WHSmith?
As I said, you have the power not to watch it. | |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| The Germans on 17:32 - Jun 12 with 1128 views | CamberleyR |
| The Germans on 15:15 - Jun 12 by LythamR |
I dont agree with this rewriting or erasing. Yes i wouldnt expect a modern day comedy programme to use the terms referred to but. these programmes reflect society at a period of time and as such are important reference points and part of our heritage and shows how far we have come as a society regarding racism, hompaphobia etc, a old comedy programme or a film is not the same as a monument to a slaver plonked in the centre of a town.
If we try and erase the past how will people be able to effectively measure and appreciate the efforts of those who struggled to overcome those prejudices. |
Spot on. |  |
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| The Germans on 17:33 - Jun 12 with 1125 views | R_from_afar |
| The Germans on 15:21 - Jun 12 by RangersDave |
'Love thy neighbour' is an interesting case in point...... racism both ways (remember the word Honky?), but Jack Smethurst always lost out. |
I haven't watched it for years but I think LTN is fine because the racist husbands were the butt of the joke, as I recall. Their enlightened, long suffering wives were firm friends and their ability to happily co-exist showed the antics of their husbands up for what they were, mindless bigotry. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| The Germans on 17:35 - Jun 12 with 1115 views | Match82 |
| The Germans on 17:20 - Jun 12 by Stanisgod |
Not talking about the N word specifically, where did I say that, I totally agree that should be taken out, but this is the end of a very thick wedge. The odd episode like that yes, but not at the rate this could happen.
What next, books off of shelves in WHSmith?
As I said, you have the power not to watch it. |
I think it's context. If I'm watching a documentary on slavery then I'm going in eyes open and knowing that racial slurs are contextual. If I'm watching a program where the main character is a massive racist and that's part of how their character is defined then again, probably should see it coming.
But this is a comedy program and it's a cheap laugh by using a racist comment, which the writer and star has since said shouldn't have happened.
There's a clear difference there, though I agree with you that defining where the cut off is will be a nuanced issue. | | | |
| The Germans on 17:40 - Jun 12 with 1101 views | Ranger_Things |
Old white men's favourite racist TV shows matter. |  | | |
| The Germans on 18:00 - Jun 12 with 1046 views | johncharles |
| The Germans on 11:41 - Jun 12 by kensalriser |
It's OK for NWA to call themselves NWA.
It's OK for 4 Poofs and a Piano to name themselves too.
It's not OK to use those terms as insults. |
Who will stand up for the piano ? |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| The Germans on 18:36 - Jun 12 with 988 views | DannyPaddox |
| The Germans on 18:00 - Jun 12 by johncharles |
Who will stand up for the piano ? |
Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard
Just don’t tell the elephants |  | | |
| The Germans on 20:18 - Jun 12 with 892 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| The Germans on 15:30 - Jun 12 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I'm going to deliberately ignore the identity politics of this thread, but can I just point out that Fawlty Towers has not been cancelled just one single special edition episode that was never aired where the N word was used A LOT.
This removal was not called for by BLM either, it was called upon by John Cleese himself. |
Completely wrong.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53020335 |  | | |
| The Germans on 20:20 - Jun 12 with 881 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| The Germans on 17:40 - Jun 12 by Ranger_Things |
Old white men's favourite racist TV shows matter. |
Have a word with yourself, that's embarrassing. | | | |
| The Germans on 20:21 - Jun 12 with 875 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
‘In 2013, it was reported that Cleese agreed for the offending lines to be edited out when it was repeated on TV’
That’s what I was referring to. [Post edited 12 Jun 2020 20:24]
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| The Germans on 20:27 - Jun 12 with 843 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| The Germans on 20:21 - Jun 12 by BazzaInTheLoft |
‘In 2013, it was reported that Cleese agreed for the offending lines to be edited out when it was repeated on TV’
That’s what I was referring to. [Post edited 12 Jun 2020 20:24]
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The BBC article is about Cleese's negative to the removal of the whole episode by UKTV who are OWNED by the BBC as stated in the article. | | | |
| The Germans on 20:31 - Jun 12 with 817 views | paulparker |
The way forward is to get what you want on DVD ( that’s if people still have them)
My missus got me the complete set of minder a couple of years ago ( no Gary Webster ones )
As most of it’s cut on on ITV 4 , there wasn’t anything racist about them just the odd bit of slang and swear words , I think we have to face facts that the likes of only fools, auf weidersain , minder, etc will never be made again because of working class writers are not employed by tv companies and the fact no one knocks out bent videos anymore
We live in a different society altogether wherever you think it’s great or cack |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| The Germans on 20:32 - Jun 12 with 817 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| The Germans on 20:27 - Jun 12 by Ned_Kennedys |
The BBC article is about Cleese's negative to the removal of the whole episode by UKTV who are OWNED by the BBC as stated in the article. |
I stand corrected.
Cleese agreed to the edit in 2013 but objects to the possibly non permanent removal while the footage is reviewed. Meanwhile the original footage is still available on DVD, YouTube, and dozens of other streaming sites. [Post edited 12 Jun 2020 20:33]
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| The Germans on 21:06 - Jun 12 with 762 views | LazyFan |
Clearly Basil is at fault and being laughed at in this episode.
However, he uses it as I recall because he has gone madder than usual by being bumped on the head. What this may do is give credibility to the word as long as only mad people like the KKK use it. No thanks, the word should be removed and the episode reinstated without it. Let's call this "racist rinsing" copyleft Lazy :)
Only 2 weeks ago I recorded from Forces TV on SKY, Saffire and Steel and also the Dukes of Hazzard. In one episode of the Dukes, Sheriff Rosco uses the N-word. I was so shocked I re-winded it just to check. And he did indeed say it.
Confederate flags all over the place in the show - Check
Some nice good ol boys who are white crims but moonshine don't count - Check
Sexy waitresses - Check
A scared sheriff who gets his gun out a lot & waves it about - Check
Racist words used by the Sheriff - Check
Cars driving too fast - Check
Indoctrinating the type of people who watch Forces TV - Check
What could possibly go wrong?
And who are these "type of people" who watch Forces TV you say?
Well LOONY LEFTIES like me of course!!!
They should "rinse" that episode too and any more like it.
As the right whingers say "we need to clean house".
[Post edited 12 Jun 2020 21:07]
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