| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) 09:53 - Dec 8 with 33032 views | joe90 |
Venue: The Den
KO: 19:45
Form: QPR D/W/L/L/L Milwall D/D/D/L/L
Big game for us tonight and a good opportunity to get 3 points on the board.
Millwall haven't won since October and their form isn't improving. I think tonight will be a case where fans in the ground are a disadvantage to the home team.
Despite our inconsistent form, we know this team can play very well, plus Millwalls form means I'm feeling confident.
3-1 Rangers with a late consolation goal from Wall.
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 23:57 - Dec 8 with 2030 views | bob566 |
If I'm laying blame I thought our full backs were poor. But they're young and learning. Like a tradesman. It'll take time. Thought we'd some slick passing at times. That Romeo is a handful. Good player as was their red head lad woods. Good players. Will both move on. Two ordinary teams with two good players each. Chair, bos, woods and Romeo. Be surprised if they're not all playing premiership ball next year. The supporting cast for both teams is bang average at best. |  | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 02:52 - Dec 9 with 1884 views | DavieQPR |
Still don't think BOS is good enough for the Prem that's why there has never been a bid for him other than some obscure Belgium team. He is not doing himself any favours by playing sulky football. He's always played for himself trying to score spectacular goals and before he got the sulks only passed or crossed when he had to. He'll land up at somewhere like Brighton or Norwich. |  | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 04:57 - Dec 9 with 1840 views | bakerloo8 |
BOS was poor again for me, anyone saying different must've watched a different game.
Only player on the park with something special going forward was Chair, and once we hoiked him we surrendered any chance of winning the game, I ain't having Thomas and Vonne helping out with aerial bombardment, that's nonsense, you would've brought kn Masterson if so. B and T were brought on to run and hassle millwall with the hope to cling on for a point. Dreadful subs.
Still a point... but a missed opportunity. |  | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 05:51 - Dec 9 with 1805 views | Watford_Ranger |
They were pretty much playing a wing-back and a full-back to nullify BOS for much of the game. Other teams seem to realise he’s far better than our own supporters do. Once the game opened up a bit he caused them a lot more problems but again he’s less of a threat when playing more central. Have him on either wing, switching occasionally, and he destroys these dross teams. | | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 07:09 - Dec 9 with 1726 views | davman |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 05:51 - Dec 9 by Watford_Ranger |
They were pretty much playing a wing-back and a full-back to nullify BOS for much of the game. Other teams seem to realise he’s far better than our own supporters do. Once the game opened up a bit he caused them a lot more problems but again he’s less of a threat when playing more central. Have him on either wing, switching occasionally, and he destroys these dross teams. |
That "full back" they had on him in the first half was no full back. Committed BOS would have had him on toast every single day and he had enough opportunities to go one on O e, but, for some reason, it was backwards, safe passing just like the early days of lockdown.
Like the team, he did improve for half the second half, but it was a low bar from the first half... |  |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 07:30 - Dec 9 with 1694 views | kernowhoop |
At the end, what might the heated argument between Cameron and Warburton have been about? | | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:05 - Dec 9 with 1635 views | Hunterhoop |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 23:53 - Dec 8 by ngbqpr |
"Thomas has been useless since coming on. Looks utterly lost. Has done nothing right and basically we’ve been playing with 10 since the subs."
"Thomas for chair should be a sackable offence alone
Our best player and they couldn’t handle him and we take him off for a bloke who is as fat as me after 2 lockdowns"
"I’m sure Thomas hasn’t shown us what he can do yet but on the limited evidence so far I can’t see what he’s bringing to the table." ---"From the look of him, not nearly as much as he's taking off the table."
Due to budget restraints, all our summer signings had a gamble element. The jury is out on all still, as it probably should be at this stage of the season - but especially a lad who's played, what, 2 or 3 hours so far? |
That’s not writing him off. That’s commenting on his contribution to date in one game.
Massive difference. Anyone that can read can understand that,
He was useless last night. He can still be successful at the club. BOS was poor last night. He’s still our best player.
What was it Clive said in his match preview about nuance?
Just because someone criticised a performance, a decision, etc, doesn’t mean they’re a raving “hater”, wants some one sacked or has written them off.
Likewise, I’m sure when someone praises someone it doesn’t mean they thing that person can do no wrong for eternity.
Stop with this, you’re one extreme or the other depending on whatever specific reasoned comment you gave.
Thomas was useless last night. In two very promising positions he made a terrible pass, and the other he trod on the ball under no pressure. Gifted them it back twice. Off it, he committed two fouls I think and didn’t make a tackle. He added nothing than being a body. Adomah, Willock or evening Bettache would surely not have played so poorly. I think MW knows he’s nowhere near match fit and was trying to get minutes into him. That should help in the long term. And I hope he works out, but he was still useless last night when he came on. |  | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:09 - Dec 9 with 1625 views | bakerloo8 |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:05 - Dec 9 by Hunterhoop |
That’s not writing him off. That’s commenting on his contribution to date in one game.
Massive difference. Anyone that can read can understand that,
He was useless last night. He can still be successful at the club. BOS was poor last night. He’s still our best player.
What was it Clive said in his match preview about nuance?
Just because someone criticised a performance, a decision, etc, doesn’t mean they’re a raving “hater”, wants some one sacked or has written them off.
Likewise, I’m sure when someone praises someone it doesn’t mean they thing that person can do no wrong for eternity.
Stop with this, you’re one extreme or the other depending on whatever specific reasoned comment you gave.
Thomas was useless last night. In two very promising positions he made a terrible pass, and the other he trod on the ball under no pressure. Gifted them it back twice. Off it, he committed two fouls I think and didn’t make a tackle. He added nothing than being a body. Adomah, Willock or evening Bettache would surely not have played so poorly. I think MW knows he’s nowhere near match fit and was trying to get minutes into him. That should help in the long term. And I hope he works out, but he was still useless last night when he came on. |
Well said, and nicely articulated. | | | |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:15 - Dec 9 with 1621 views | dm97 |
Rot stopped. Appreciate all the criticisms outlined, subs/cross goal +1/ missed chances, however Warburton has again shown how to halt losing runs in a way his two immediate predecessors couldn’t.
Also, a bug bear of mine; the “lack of plan B” nonsense. This is sheer groupthink that we have assumed from other fan bases. Last night was clearly a plan B - pack the midfield, sacrifice attaching play somewhat (no willock, chair wide), and hit dykes if pressed.
The issues of subs and ineptitude at defending crosses has rightly been stated here, but stopping the rot by approaching the game differently deserves mention when this club is so used to losing 4/5/6 in a row since the prem relegation. Credit where it is due. |  | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:24 - Dec 9 with 1599 views | nix |
I honestly don't think he took Chair and Carroll off because he thought the subs would win us the game. I really think he was doing it for three reasons: to rest them, to give game time to the subs that came on and to have people to run around and close down space. Thomas was doing that quite a lot and helping out Hamalainen, where the balls were coming in from that were getting us into trouble at the end.
Rightly or wrongly I think he wanted to ensure a point for a side that looks desperately lacking in confidence and saving two of our best players for the two matches in five days we're playing next week. Additionally he's trying to get game time for two players who aren't quite up to speed yet. Although a win would have been fabulous, a loss would have been disastrous. We only had to look at the difference between how we played between the two goals. We looked nervous for a bit before we scored, great after we scored and then quite poor after they equalised. I think it's a fair decision to hold onto that point. [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 8:53]
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:33 - Dec 9 with 1569 views | bakerloo8 |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:15 - Dec 9 by dm97 |
Rot stopped. Appreciate all the criticisms outlined, subs/cross goal +1/ missed chances, however Warburton has again shown how to halt losing runs in a way his two immediate predecessors couldn’t.
Also, a bug bear of mine; the “lack of plan B” nonsense. This is sheer groupthink that we have assumed from other fan bases. Last night was clearly a plan B - pack the midfield, sacrifice attaching play somewhat (no willock, chair wide), and hit dykes if pressed.
The issues of subs and ineptitude at defending crosses has rightly been stated here, but stopping the rot by approaching the game differently deserves mention when this club is so used to losing 4/5/6 in a row since the prem relegation. Credit where it is due. |
If that's Plan B, running around firefighting whilst showing zero attacking intent then I suggest we stick with Plan A. | | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:36 - Dec 9 with 1565 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:15 - Dec 9 by dm97 |
Rot stopped. Appreciate all the criticisms outlined, subs/cross goal +1/ missed chances, however Warburton has again shown how to halt losing runs in a way his two immediate predecessors couldn’t.
Also, a bug bear of mine; the “lack of plan B” nonsense. This is sheer groupthink that we have assumed from other fan bases. Last night was clearly a plan B - pack the midfield, sacrifice attaching play somewhat (no willock, chair wide), and hit dykes if pressed.
The issues of subs and ineptitude at defending crosses has rightly been stated here, but stopping the rot by approaching the game differently deserves mention when this club is so used to losing 4/5/6 in a row since the prem relegation. Credit where it is due. |
"Also, a bug bear of mine; the “lack of plan B” nonsense. This is sheer groupthink that we have assumed from other fan bases. Last night was clearly a plan B - pack the midfield, sacrifice attaching play somewhat (no willock, chair wide), and hit dykes if pressed."
I'd agree to an extent last night, though the heatmaps seem to conform the eye-test that Bonne played as a right-sided forward and Thomas in Carroll's position so we didn't pack the midfield. Crucially, also, by losing Carroll's and Chair's passing we lost the battle for possession in midfield and I thought we got swamped there.
Earlier in the season I stood up for Warburton many times on the 'No Plan B' accusations but in the last four games these are the tactical highlights for me:
Bristol City - we dominate 1st Half, City react by packing midfield, we have no counter-plan.
Brentford - ditto.
H'field - The oppo start with a plan to pack midfield, we fail to react throughout.
Last Night - Millwall subs do not greatly affect midfield, ours then lose us control of midfield.
For the last four games, it's not - as you say - that we had no Plan B. It's that our Plan B didn't work. |  |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:39 - Dec 9 with 1549 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:24 - Dec 9 by nix |
I honestly don't think he took Chair and Carroll off because he thought the subs would win us the game. I really think he was doing it for three reasons: to rest them, to give game time to the subs that came on and to have people to run around and close down space. Thomas was doing that quite a lot and helping out Hamalainen, where the balls were coming in from that were getting us into trouble at the end.
Rightly or wrongly I think he wanted to ensure a point for a side that looks desperately lacking in confidence and saving two of our best players for the two matches in five days we're playing next week. Additionally he's trying to get game time for two players who aren't quite up to speed yet. Although a win would have been fabulous, a loss would have been disastrous. We only had to look at the difference between how we played between the two goals. We looked nervous for a bit before we scored, great after we scored and then quite poor after they equalised. I think it's a fair decision to hold onto that point. [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 8:53]
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I think you're probably right, Nix. The management have access to sports science data that we don't and we have acknowledge that.
My thinking was that taking off Chair and Carroll may have been necessary, but I thought that Willock would have retained possession better than Bonne and perhaps (perhaps?) Bettache may have been simpler in possession than Thomas.
I also would have brought Albert's experience on for BOS. | |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 09:04 - Dec 9 with 1485 views | ngbqpr |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:05 - Dec 9 by Hunterhoop |
That’s not writing him off. That’s commenting on his contribution to date in one game.
Massive difference. Anyone that can read can understand that,
He was useless last night. He can still be successful at the club. BOS was poor last night. He’s still our best player.
What was it Clive said in his match preview about nuance?
Just because someone criticised a performance, a decision, etc, doesn’t mean they’re a raving “hater”, wants some one sacked or has written them off.
Likewise, I’m sure when someone praises someone it doesn’t mean they thing that person can do no wrong for eternity.
Stop with this, you’re one extreme or the other depending on whatever specific reasoned comment you gave.
Thomas was useless last night. In two very promising positions he made a terrible pass, and the other he trod on the ball under no pressure. Gifted them it back twice. Off it, he committed two fouls I think and didn’t make a tackle. He added nothing than being a body. Adomah, Willock or evening Bettache would surely not have played so poorly. I think MW knows he’s nowhere near match fit and was trying to get minutes into him. That should help in the long term. And I hope he works out, but he was still useless last night when he came on. |
Apologies Hunter, heat of the moment frustration. Fair play, your quote was clearly about the specifics when he came on last night.
However, re the others I pulled out - I accept it maybe falls a bit short of "writing off" - but I still find it mind-boggling negativity given Thomas's history, his recent injury issues etc etc - all for a lad who's played a couple of hours for us to date |  |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 09:05 - Dec 9 with 1476 views | dm97 |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:36 - Dec 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
"Also, a bug bear of mine; the “lack of plan B” nonsense. This is sheer groupthink that we have assumed from other fan bases. Last night was clearly a plan B - pack the midfield, sacrifice attaching play somewhat (no willock, chair wide), and hit dykes if pressed."
I'd agree to an extent last night, though the heatmaps seem to conform the eye-test that Bonne played as a right-sided forward and Thomas in Carroll's position so we didn't pack the midfield. Crucially, also, by losing Carroll's and Chair's passing we lost the battle for possession in midfield and I thought we got swamped there.
Earlier in the season I stood up for Warburton many times on the 'No Plan B' accusations but in the last four games these are the tactical highlights for me:
Bristol City - we dominate 1st Half, City react by packing midfield, we have no counter-plan.
Brentford - ditto.
H'field - The oppo start with a plan to pack midfield, we fail to react throughout.
Last Night - Millwall subs do not greatly affect midfield, ours then lose us control of midfield.
For the last four games, it's not - as you say - that we had no Plan B. It's that our Plan B didn't work. |
I agree it’s not executed well in every instance nor am I insinuating warburton is a tactical guru - Corboran did him on Saturday. My point was more that the idea of ‘no plan B’ isn’t fair, the fact it doesn’t work is a different criticism to saying he doesn’t have one.
Very wary that we often create self fulfilling prophecies, which I think the no plan B statement is. | | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 09:24 - Dec 9 with 1440 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 09:05 - Dec 9 by dm97 |
I agree it’s not executed well in every instance nor am I insinuating warburton is a tactical guru - Corboran did him on Saturday. My point was more that the idea of ‘no plan B’ isn’t fair, the fact it doesn’t work is a different criticism to saying he doesn’t have one.
Very wary that we often create self fulfilling prophecies, which I think the no plan B statement is. |
I agree with you, dm97, and that's what I was trying to get across. | |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:01 - Dec 9 with 1368 views | Stanisgod |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 22:11 - Dec 8 by Hunterhoop |
Joe, watch the replay. The shot was going in the bottom corner before the deflection. |
Think Dieng had it. |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:07 - Dec 9 with 1357 views | PinnerPaul |
1st half - poor game between two poor teams, thought winner was going to be whichever team gave the ball away the least often!
2nd half...... my internet crashed at half time, so you'll have to wait with baited breath what I thought of the 2nd half and the referee until I see the 2nd 45' tomorrow.
Can't wait eh?   | | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:21 - Dec 9 with 1330 views | davman |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:07 - Dec 9 by PinnerPaul |
1st half - poor game between two poor teams, thought winner was going to be whichever team gave the ball away the least often!
2nd half...... my internet crashed at half time, so you'll have to wait with baited breath what I thought of the 2nd half and the referee until I see the 2nd 45' tomorrow.
Can't wait eh? |
Let me help you on the ref., Pinner.
He was, like 90% of referees at this level, very poor. No hint of bias as his poor decisions (not playing advantage a couple of times, missing a blatant penalty when Dickie went all handsy again, not picking up Dom Ball's foul on the edge of our area, penalising Dykes for being physical, but not dirty) were evenly distributed. | |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:27 - Dec 9 with 1310 views | johncharles |
How many games have we lost 2 - 1 recently ? I could this one going the same way but Warburton had a plan B and somehow it worked, God knows how ‘cos I don’t but it did and I’m grateful for that and I’m quite happy to give Warburton the credit. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:33 - Dec 9 with 1292 views | PinnerPaul |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:21 - Dec 9 by davman |
Let me help you on the ref., Pinner.
He was, like 90% of referees at this level, very poor. No hint of bias as his poor decisions (not playing advantage a couple of times, missing a blatant penalty when Dickie went all handsy again, not picking up Dom Ball's foul on the edge of our area, penalising Dykes for being physical, but not dirty) were evenly distributed. |
Well I'm always going to call out 'Any hint of bias' - any suggestion of that will always be met by a robust defence by any qualified referee. In his case as he's only been in the country for less than 2 years and he is here to continue his doctorate in neurology, yes really!, any 'hint of bias' would be laughable.
Not fair to comment on things I haven't seen (unlike some, cough, cough) so will let you know what I think after I've watched the 2nd half in full. | | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:48 - Dec 9 with 1266 views | Phildo |
in the cool light of morning I can say that I lost it last night once those subs were made. I accept that the manager has a lot more data to hand than me and may well have been following the science/ and or worried about the aerial threat.
I di think we had done enough to win a scrappy game and needed to manage it out and failed to do that which has now happened several times.
I think the league is pss weak this year which is a good thing as we have a pss weak squad. One or two signings in January probably loans could turn it around and keep us safe.
Fundamentally I worry what the long term plan is TBH. |  | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 11:27 - Dec 9 with 1215 views | francisbowles |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 10:01 - Dec 9 by Stanisgod |
Think Dieng had it. |
Not sure it was going in either. Have just watched it again from the angle looking straight at the posts, has confirmed my impression last night that Dieng would probably have got it otherwise it would have hit the post or crept just wide.
Wasn't there an element of handball by Bodvarsson as well. It may have been unintentional but that is enough this season, in the lead up to a goal. Having said that they were claiming a handball in the early part of the lead up to our goal. Can't see it properly so can't really comment but it was when Hamalainen controlled the ball before giving it to Chair who played it out to Carroll and then got it back and scored.
Back to their goal, it's a shame Chair switched off for the free kick! Suggestion of fatigue and lack of concentration.
Soft free kick though! Smith stuck out his huge arris even further than usual and is almost doubled over when Barbet loses patience and completes the job for him. I would call that backing in but it is usually given these days. Barbet also at fault with the first contact header on the free kick.
Overall, a good job done. Something to build on. I think the stats said they had 17 shots but as far as I remember, Senny only really made one save at the near post, from Wallace and that was fairly routine. He did all the other stuff very well though. Their keeper was a bit busier with shots from Chair, Dykes (don't laugh) and Ball.
Carroll involved in virtually everything we did create. Our best passer and player by far. | | | |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 17:00 - Dec 9 with 1041 views | nix |
| Millwall vs QPR (Match Thread) on 08:39 - Dec 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
I think you're probably right, Nix. The management have access to sports science data that we don't and we have acknowledge that.
My thinking was that taking off Chair and Carroll may have been necessary, but I thought that Willock would have retained possession better than Bonne and perhaps (perhaps?) Bettache may have been simpler in possession than Thomas.
I also would have brought Albert's experience on for BOS. |
I think you're right Brian, Willock is better than Bonne but has had more game time possibly, so doesn't need it as much but just speculating there, haven't checked it. I liked Bettache when he played and am a bit mystified by his exclusion unless he is just protecting him while we're up against it. He definitely was much more keen to blood the younger players once we'd got enough points to stay up last season.
But this is just me mind reading. I might be completely off beam and he might have a different view of the qualities of the squad than us 🤷ðŸ½â€â™€ï¸. | | | |
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