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I was at QPR on Thursday, popping into both the club shop and box office. Mask wearing and distancing among staff was conspicuous by its absence.
Seeing as the off-field staff are likely to have more contact with players and those who come into contact with the players, you’d think these simple measures would be applied.
Utter joke!
[Post edited 12 Dec 2021 19:39]
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
I've read a lot about Omicron being more contagious than Delta and that being vaccinated doesn't stop you from catching it and getting a mild reaction to it. Somewhere along the line people have assumed a vaccine stops you from catching a virus when in reality, it helps you defend against it. Think of it like a remote village under attack from invaders and a fortified castle under attack. The better your defences, the better the outcome but either way you are going to take some damage, just very different levels of damage.
The other mistake people are making is thinking that if something is 90% effective, you're as good as bullet proof. This overconfidence leads to a drop in taking precautions and this is the main driving factor for increased cases. This isn't the Covid thread so I'll stop now but if you're double jabbed (get a third if you want but the science is still out on whether they are necessary) you will likely get a mild reaction when (not if) you catch it.
Here in Spain we are all still wearing masks in supermarkets etc (can't remember seeing anyone not wearing one) and the number of deaths have remained low. The current 7 day average is 26 compared to 119 in the UK.
5
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 10:52 - Dec 13 with 3249 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 10:37 - Dec 13 by GaryT
I've read a lot about Omicron being more contagious than Delta and that being vaccinated doesn't stop you from catching it and getting a mild reaction to it. Somewhere along the line people have assumed a vaccine stops you from catching a virus when in reality, it helps you defend against it. Think of it like a remote village under attack from invaders and a fortified castle under attack. The better your defences, the better the outcome but either way you are going to take some damage, just very different levels of damage.
The other mistake people are making is thinking that if something is 90% effective, you're as good as bullet proof. This overconfidence leads to a drop in taking precautions and this is the main driving factor for increased cases. This isn't the Covid thread so I'll stop now but if you're double jabbed (get a third if you want but the science is still out on whether they are necessary) you will likely get a mild reaction when (not if) you catch it.
Here in Spain we are all still wearing masks in supermarkets etc (can't remember seeing anyone not wearing one) and the number of deaths have remained low. The current 7 day average is 26 compared to 119 in the UK.
"Somewhere along the line people have assumed a vaccine stops you from catching a virus when in reality, it helps you defend against it"
This is the one thing that absolutely drives me bonkers. I've lost count the amount of times I've heard people (verbally, via text/whatsapp/facebook /on tv etc) say this as though they suddenly think getting vaccinated makes you instantly immune/invincible.
I'm certain both Boris Johnson & Trump thought this.... then got it and presumably couldn't understand why then probably, Trump for sure, debunked the whole thing meaning their legions of brain-dead followers think the same too.
One of (a long list) the many things that's disheartened me the last 18 months or so is that science has been utterly battered as a form of education & knowledge when in fact it is something that should be enjoyed, revered etc. I took my 7 year old to a birthday party yesterday that had a guy doing a science themed presentation (including going outside and mixing mentos with lemonade and setting it off as a rocket) and they all absolutely loved it. That's what science should be but it's being turned into something of heresy by people who seem more happy in an illiterate, medieval/witchcraft world of days gone by.
Utterly sad and disheartening.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2021 10:54]
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QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 10:59 - Dec 13 with 3200 views
I hear you but I've also come to realise that "The truth is irrelevant" and this has been the case for a very long time. US/UK politics over the last 6 years is a clear demonstration of this and as more countries start leaning to the right, the fight against climate change deniers is going to get harder (especially if you can't demonstrate against it).
1
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 11:23 - Dec 13 with 3106 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 09:30 - Dec 13 by robith
I really doubt the players are interacting that much with the club shop and the box office given they train at Hounslow
That as it maybe, but the degrees of separation between non-playing staff at the club having contact with their colleagues who do (and spreading it around the LR premises) is a lot closer than it is between me and Kevin Bacon.
As the club pointed out: the outbreak isn’t confined to the playing staff.
As I said at the start: wearing a mask is hardly rocket science.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 10:37 - Dec 13 by GaryT
I've read a lot about Omicron being more contagious than Delta and that being vaccinated doesn't stop you from catching it and getting a mild reaction to it. Somewhere along the line people have assumed a vaccine stops you from catching a virus when in reality, it helps you defend against it. Think of it like a remote village under attack from invaders and a fortified castle under attack. The better your defences, the better the outcome but either way you are going to take some damage, just very different levels of damage.
The other mistake people are making is thinking that if something is 90% effective, you're as good as bullet proof. This overconfidence leads to a drop in taking precautions and this is the main driving factor for increased cases. This isn't the Covid thread so I'll stop now but if you're double jabbed (get a third if you want but the science is still out on whether they are necessary) you will likely get a mild reaction when (not if) you catch it.
Here in Spain we are all still wearing masks in supermarkets etc (can't remember seeing anyone not wearing one) and the number of deaths have remained low. The current 7 day average is 26 compared to 119 in the UK.
All the evidence on the third dose is that it is very effective in boosting waning immunity, so I really don't know where you got the notion otherwise.
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 12:03 - Dec 13 by CroydonCaptJack
Sorry for repeating myself but does anyone know if the players have to have the jabs or are encouraged to do so?
MW has, on more than one occasion, stressed that he would love to see all the staff and players vaccinated.
I think most if not all of the coaching are jabbed up. But MW was just on TS saying that a small number of players "had very firm opinions" and were refusing the jab. Obviously the medical degrees they all hold are coming in useful.
Anyway, there were apparently 8 cases yesterday and another 2 have symptoms today - so 10 are now self isolating.
Not sure if that 10 are all players or not but looks highly likely that the next two games will be off.
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 12:19 - Dec 13 by londonscottish
MW has, on more than one occasion, stressed that he would love to see all the staff and players vaccinated.
I think most if not all of the coaching are jabbed up. But MW was just on TS saying that a small number of players "had very firm opinions" and were refusing the jab. Obviously the medical degrees they all hold are coming in useful.
Anyway, there were apparently 8 cases yesterday and another 2 have symptoms today - so 10 are now self isolating.
Not sure if that 10 are all players or not but looks highly likely that the next two games will be off.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2021 12:23]
Cheers mate.
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QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 13:04 - Dec 13 with 2793 views
Not surprising, I remember at the height of the strictest lockdown seeing Dom Ball and Àngel Rangel walking around Chiswick Sainsbury's unmasked. They were noticeably the only maskless shoppers.
0
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 13:35 - Dec 13 with 2707 views
One of the recent Private Eye issue had a big feature detailing some excellent investigative journalistic work illustrating who has been making millions out of the taxpayer during Covid, and how they've been doing it.
Unfortunately, nowhere near enough people in this country read the Private Eye.
3
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 13:41 - Dec 13 with 2678 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 13:04 - Dec 13 by ChiswickRs
Not surprising, I remember at the height of the strictest lockdown seeing Dom Ball and Àngel Rangel walking around Chiswick Sainsbury's unmasked. They were noticeably the only maskless shoppers.
Hang them, shoot them.
Jesus get a grip and turn off the news Zzzzz
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QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 13:51 - Dec 13 with 2612 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 13:35 - Dec 13 by slmrstid
One of the recent Private Eye issue had a big feature detailing some excellent investigative journalistic work illustrating who has been making millions out of the taxpayer during Covid, and how they've been doing it.
Unfortunately, nowhere near enough people in this country read the Private Eye.
Not forgetting the Chinese government. All the masks I have got were manufactured in China as are the Lateral Flow Tests.
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QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 14:50 - Dec 13 with 2402 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 10:37 - Dec 13 by GaryT
I've read a lot about Omicron being more contagious than Delta and that being vaccinated doesn't stop you from catching it and getting a mild reaction to it. Somewhere along the line people have assumed a vaccine stops you from catching a virus when in reality, it helps you defend against it. Think of it like a remote village under attack from invaders and a fortified castle under attack. The better your defences, the better the outcome but either way you are going to take some damage, just very different levels of damage.
The other mistake people are making is thinking that if something is 90% effective, you're as good as bullet proof. This overconfidence leads to a drop in taking precautions and this is the main driving factor for increased cases. This isn't the Covid thread so I'll stop now but if you're double jabbed (get a third if you want but the science is still out on whether they are necessary) you will likely get a mild reaction when (not if) you catch it.
Here in Spain we are all still wearing masks in supermarkets etc (can't remember seeing anyone not wearing one) and the number of deaths have remained low. The current 7 day average is 26 compared to 119 in the UK.
Problem I have with that theory, is where do you draw the line?
Mask wearing forever?
We have flu every year, and every year the vaccine is tweaked as the virus changes.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just don't like the mixed messages.
We were 'sold' the dream of vaccines were the way to 'normal' life and now this?
I've read WHO say that this is no worse than any other variant, Pfizer say their vaccines do help, yet we're now heading to more restrictions.
I also take odds with your dismissing of the 90% effective - so what? - back to flu, we get vaccinated yet people still catch it and die from it.
One last point, then I'm done - 1st year of Covid I read that FIVE healthy U18s died as a result of Covid - in that same time, heart disease ALONE killed over a 1,000 Under 18s - somewhere along the line we have lost a sense of perspective I think.
Having said all that, if you have been directly affected, totally understand why you would be fearful/cautious and there are no 'right' or 'wrong' answers - you only have to read the wildly different views of various 'experts' to see that!
Sorry for the rant, my last on this subject - promise.
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QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 14:54 - Dec 13 with 2388 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 12:06 - Dec 13 by kensalriser
All the evidence on the third dose is that it is very effective in boosting waning immunity, so I really don't know where you got the notion otherwise.
What I'm picking up from that article is that boosters increase antibodies to prevent infection but vaccines were never meant to prevent infection, just to help your immune system fight off an attack. Antibody levels for All vaccines wain because there's no real need for your body to be running on a full tank of antibodies. As long as you have the B and T cells constantly patrolling and on the look out for viruses (that they've seen before from previous infection or from a vaccine), you have all the antibody builders you need.
Sure, boosters will initially keep your body on high alert and your immune system will kill anything dead in it's tracks (if infected shortly after a boost) but there's anecdotal evidence that those without a booster (but double jabbed) have caught the Omicron variant and have suffered a mild illness which they ranked as "not as bad as a cold".
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 14:50 - Dec 13 by PinnerPaul
Problem I have with that theory, is where do you draw the line?
Mask wearing forever?
We have flu every year, and every year the vaccine is tweaked as the virus changes.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just don't like the mixed messages.
We were 'sold' the dream of vaccines were the way to 'normal' life and now this?
I've read WHO say that this is no worse than any other variant, Pfizer say their vaccines do help, yet we're now heading to more restrictions.
I also take odds with your dismissing of the 90% effective - so what? - back to flu, we get vaccinated yet people still catch it and die from it.
One last point, then I'm done - 1st year of Covid I read that FIVE healthy U18s died as a result of Covid - in that same time, heart disease ALONE killed over a 1,000 Under 18s - somewhere along the line we have lost a sense of perspective I think.
Having said all that, if you have been directly affected, totally understand why you would be fearful/cautious and there are no 'right' or 'wrong' answers - you only have to read the wildly different views of various 'experts' to see that!
Sorry for the rant, my last on this subject - promise.
I can't argue with the mask wearing forever comment as clearly that is never going to be accepted. All I was doing was showing that there is one major difference between the UK and Spain and that is mask wearing and how that seems to be affecting the number of deaths. Case numbers here are rising as the cold weather sets in so there won't be a change in this policy for a while but I would hope that when spring arrives and the take up of the vaccine has passed 80%, we'll see mask restrictions easing off, hopefully. To be honest though, I'm so used to wearing a mask when I'm out shopping that I forget I'm wearing it so whilst I get the "it can't go on forever!" outrage from some people, it wouldn't bother me if it stayed a policy for close environments for a few more years.
I agree with you on the WHO/vaccines help (massively) and don't think there is a need for anything other than mask mandates (if the public will accept a minor inconvenience), certainly not lockdowns.
I think you may have misread my 90% comment. I was saying that 90% effective can sound great and has lead to some people being over confident with their protection. 90% effective would mean that in a full Loftus road, 1800 people that are double jabbed would leave with a symptomatic infection. So I think we are agreeing on that one as well, people get the flu jab and still die, it happens...a lot.
Comparisons of deaths from heart disease/cancer/alzheimer's etc to covid have one major flaw, only one is contagious. Picking only under 18's when comparing covid to heart disease seems deliberately weighted against covid so I'd be suspicious of the motives for whoever wrote that piece...but you are right, many more people are dying of other causes all of which are being tackled in one way or another but there is only one infectious disease that has caused a pandemic and (at times) brought hospitals close to breaking point so we need to look at the bigger picture than just comparing the number of deaths.
Back to QPR, let's hope none of them have caught a bad dose of it as long covid is a bitch to shake and could lay them off for as long as a serious leg injury.
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QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 15:56 - Dec 13 with 2253 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 14:41 - Dec 13 by PinnerPaul
How do you know Cliff?
Not being provocative, genuinely interested how you can narrow it down to a specific venue/time?
I believe it was at the Birmingham game that my son Joseph and I contracted Covid. The game was on a Tuesday evening, by Friday both Joseph and I had "cold" symptoms but were testing negative on lateral flow tests, on Monday before going to work I took another test which proved positive, Joseph then took a test and proved positive also, and the only other person in our household, the misses, tested negative. PCR tests 3 days later confirmed the results with the misses test positive a day later.
When talking to the track and trace people, they said infection normally occurs 3-4 days before the first symptoms, so most like Tuesday, although possibly Monday or Wednesday. Neither Joseph or myself did anything on Monday or Wednesday (or indeed Thursday) but we did both attend the Birmingham game, the only time we were out of the house together, and most certainly the time of greatest risk given the number of people and lack of masks.
1
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 16:05 - Dec 13 with 2213 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 15:43 - Dec 13 by GaryT
I can't argue with the mask wearing forever comment as clearly that is never going to be accepted. All I was doing was showing that there is one major difference between the UK and Spain and that is mask wearing and how that seems to be affecting the number of deaths. Case numbers here are rising as the cold weather sets in so there won't be a change in this policy for a while but I would hope that when spring arrives and the take up of the vaccine has passed 80%, we'll see mask restrictions easing off, hopefully. To be honest though, I'm so used to wearing a mask when I'm out shopping that I forget I'm wearing it so whilst I get the "it can't go on forever!" outrage from some people, it wouldn't bother me if it stayed a policy for close environments for a few more years.
I agree with you on the WHO/vaccines help (massively) and don't think there is a need for anything other than mask mandates (if the public will accept a minor inconvenience), certainly not lockdowns.
I think you may have misread my 90% comment. I was saying that 90% effective can sound great and has lead to some people being over confident with their protection. 90% effective would mean that in a full Loftus road, 1800 people that are double jabbed would leave with a symptomatic infection. So I think we are agreeing on that one as well, people get the flu jab and still die, it happens...a lot.
Comparisons of deaths from heart disease/cancer/alzheimer's etc to covid have one major flaw, only one is contagious. Picking only under 18's when comparing covid to heart disease seems deliberately weighted against covid so I'd be suspicious of the motives for whoever wrote that piece...but you are right, many more people are dying of other causes all of which are being tackled in one way or another but there is only one infectious disease that has caused a pandemic and (at times) brought hospitals close to breaking point so we need to look at the bigger picture than just comparing the number of deaths.
Back to QPR, let's hope none of them have caught a bad dose of it as long covid is a bitch to shake and could lay them off for as long as a serious leg injury.
All fair points Gary, can't argue with much of that mate!
I do wear my mask and agree if it helps, then its not a biggie - just seems we're heading towards further restrictions, that I do have a problem with, but as I say its just a personal opinion - its not the offside law, so I'm just an uninformed punter on this - like most!
[Post edited 13 Dec 2021 16:06]
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QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 16:07 - Dec 13 with 2197 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 15:56 - Dec 13 by Cliff
I believe it was at the Birmingham game that my son Joseph and I contracted Covid. The game was on a Tuesday evening, by Friday both Joseph and I had "cold" symptoms but were testing negative on lateral flow tests, on Monday before going to work I took another test which proved positive, Joseph then took a test and proved positive also, and the only other person in our household, the misses, tested negative. PCR tests 3 days later confirmed the results with the misses test positive a day later.
When talking to the track and trace people, they said infection normally occurs 3-4 days before the first symptoms, so most like Tuesday, although possibly Monday or Wednesday. Neither Joseph or myself did anything on Monday or Wednesday (or indeed Thursday) but we did both attend the Birmingham game, the only time we were out of the house together, and most certainly the time of greatest risk given the number of people and lack of masks.
Fair enough - thanks
0
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 16:14 - Dec 13 with 2168 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 14:50 - Dec 13 by PinnerPaul
Problem I have with that theory, is where do you draw the line?
Mask wearing forever?
We have flu every year, and every year the vaccine is tweaked as the virus changes.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just don't like the mixed messages.
We were 'sold' the dream of vaccines were the way to 'normal' life and now this?
I've read WHO say that this is no worse than any other variant, Pfizer say their vaccines do help, yet we're now heading to more restrictions.
I also take odds with your dismissing of the 90% effective - so what? - back to flu, we get vaccinated yet people still catch it and die from it.
One last point, then I'm done - 1st year of Covid I read that FIVE healthy U18s died as a result of Covid - in that same time, heart disease ALONE killed over a 1,000 Under 18s - somewhere along the line we have lost a sense of perspective I think.
Having said all that, if you have been directly affected, totally understand why you would be fearful/cautious and there are no 'right' or 'wrong' answers - you only have to read the wildly different views of various 'experts' to see that!
Sorry for the rant, my last on this subject - promise.
I had the same opinion to stay quiet until I watched probably the most interesting discussion on what's happening in the world i've seen that made me reflect on my own stance
43.27- changed my mind on not speaking out and highlights the importance of discussion and how dangerous it is that views are silenced
Day after John Flecks collapse I put a thread about strangeness of the collapsing sportsmen and women. The thread was shut down and later that same day the player collapses in Real Madrid game and the next day a Wigan player has a heart attack and then Lindelof this weekend. Plus all the extra fan instances since then like the death of the Scottish rugby player and the Brazilian lad playing in Japan
To silence discussion is wrong. The number of threads popping up recently I think is a sign that its healthy to restart discussion
There is a 20% who's mind is closed as this video shows that is human psychology of fearful people seeking to exercise control over that fear.
But anyone who has doubts to watch this video as it highlights why it is so important we have a discussion to protect us from the worst aspects of the Totalitarian society we are heading towards:
This video lays out the process of mass formation. To which myself take some self reflection
Also helps me understand the on the face of it quite loopy statement that started this thread and likes of Oslo endorse
It helps me to understand that outside fears driving this. From both sides as I myself have been guilty of calling people sheep. Picking an enemy and dehumanising. Made me step back and think about my own reactions. And this also explains the weird comments around masks on this thread. Warburton is as bad as anyone on this subject and picking an enemy which for him is the unvaxxed. Going to be amusing seeing if he can keep that up as more and more players collapse each week
I thought the original post here was actually a joke but realising it isn't is explained within this video. About the fear that has been created and logic that has been removed:
1:02.30 about the importance of rituals and "their need to be pragmatically meaningless and involve sacrifice" which the Corona measures do. And masks in particular unless they are once worn surgical standard and not cloth masks
Planet Honneywood bizarre linking of the club shop masks to our players getting Covid is an example of this. If he was in the club shop wearing a mask and I let out a big old fart next to him. Could he smell it. Definitely yes. Trust me. Well if those fart particles can get in his nose through his cloth mask. We all know in relality so could Covid. But the demand isn't based in reality. He's acting in response to an outside fear
The danger here is genuinely we end up with Spanish Inquisition, Witch trials, gulags. A leader comes along as is so often the case in history and promises to resolve it by harming the created enemy (the anti vaxxers) it can go to and is going to a very dangerous place.
People do need to be woken up from this hypnotised fear. Understand when your watching footballers collapsing on a weekly basis that some people have genuine fears. Celebrate that this new variant is extremely mild as is being proved in largely unvaxxed South Africa
Question why is it okay, when their are medical professionals saying that to children the vaccine risks heavily out weight the benefits. On top of this the social and economic costs of lockdown. In a vaxxed society facing the mildest of variants, more on more people I hope will snap out of their previous stance
It doesn't need to be a discussion about conspiracy theories and whether we should take anything from the fact that an Anagram of Omnicron/Delta is media control
But I think it's healthy to understand why people were scared on both sides and what really is the best way forward. If you want to shut down debate on points raised by others then maybe that's not a good sign
[Post edited 13 Dec 2021 16:56]
1
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 17:55 - Dec 13 with 1952 views
QPR/Covid what a bloody surprise!! on 16:42 - Dec 13 by Russian__Bot
I had the same opinion to stay quiet until I watched probably the most interesting discussion on what's happening in the world i've seen that made me reflect on my own stance
43.27- changed my mind on not speaking out and highlights the importance of discussion and how dangerous it is that views are silenced
Day after John Flecks collapse I put a thread about strangeness of the collapsing sportsmen and women. The thread was shut down and later that same day the player collapses in Real Madrid game and the next day a Wigan player has a heart attack and then Lindelof this weekend. Plus all the extra fan instances since then like the death of the Scottish rugby player and the Brazilian lad playing in Japan
To silence discussion is wrong. The number of threads popping up recently I think is a sign that its healthy to restart discussion
There is a 20% who's mind is closed as this video shows that is human psychology of fearful people seeking to exercise control over that fear.
But anyone who has doubts to watch this video as it highlights why it is so important we have a discussion to protect us from the worst aspects of the Totalitarian society we are heading towards:
This video lays out the process of mass formation. To which myself take some self reflection
Also helps me understand the on the face of it quite loopy statement that started this thread and likes of Oslo endorse
It helps me to understand that outside fears driving this. From both sides as I myself have been guilty of calling people sheep. Picking an enemy and dehumanising. Made me step back and think about my own reactions. And this also explains the weird comments around masks on this thread. Warburton is as bad as anyone on this subject and picking an enemy which for him is the unvaxxed. Going to be amusing seeing if he can keep that up as more and more players collapse each week
I thought the original post here was actually a joke but realising it isn't is explained within this video. About the fear that has been created and logic that has been removed:
1:02.30 about the importance of rituals and "their need to be pragmatically meaningless and involve sacrifice" which the Corona measures do. And masks in particular unless they are once worn surgical standard and not cloth masks
Planet Honneywood bizarre linking of the club shop masks to our players getting Covid is an example of this. If he was in the club shop wearing a mask and I let out a big old fart next to him. Could he smell it. Definitely yes. Trust me. Well if those fart particles can get in his nose through his cloth mask. We all know in relality so could Covid. But the demand isn't based in reality. He's acting in response to an outside fear
The danger here is genuinely we end up with Spanish Inquisition, Witch trials, gulags. A leader comes along as is so often the case in history and promises to resolve it by harming the created enemy (the anti vaxxers) it can go to and is going to a very dangerous place.
People do need to be woken up from this hypnotised fear. Understand when your watching footballers collapsing on a weekly basis that some people have genuine fears. Celebrate that this new variant is extremely mild as is being proved in largely unvaxxed South Africa
Question why is it okay, when their are medical professionals saying that to children the vaccine risks heavily out weight the benefits. On top of this the social and economic costs of lockdown. In a vaxxed society facing the mildest of variants, more on more people I hope will snap out of their previous stance
It doesn't need to be a discussion about conspiracy theories and whether we should take anything from the fact that an Anagram of Omnicron/Delta is media control
But I think it's healthy to understand why people were scared on both sides and what really is the best way forward. If you want to shut down debate on points raised by others then maybe that's not a good sign
[Post edited 13 Dec 2021 16:56]
Personally, I can't be arsed with the "mind control" conspiracy theories.
I'm jabbed up, my family is too. Washing hands when you're out and about is a sensible approach anyway, always has been. Especially in flu season.
Masks are irritating but hardly the end of the world.
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