| Amusing or concerning? 11:35 - Aug 1 with 19045 views | Myke |
I can't decide if I am amused or concerned by the negative backlash on here to one, ONE (narrow) away defeat - god only knows what Twitter was like!
Amused on one level, because I can remember a time when league tables weren't even compiled until the first three games were completed - now they are 'live' and a team's position literally changes by the minute.
Concerned because there was a similar reaction to McClaren's first three games in charge and the club panicked and brought in old strikers to assuage the fans. That should not happen again. That is NOT our identity anymore. We need to be patient. We may get an odd shallicking until our new defence and system beds in. Very likely (even without any more signings - which is unlikely) Shodipo, Dozzell and Dykes will now be regular starters and possibly Steph also, once everyone is fit. If, as I expect, we bring in a few more players, then you can likely add Kakay (who was actually okay on Sat) to that list. Two players were making their full debuts and another, with no training sessions, got a run out.
I firmly believe this team will get incrementally better as the season progresses. Not chalk and cheese performances like over the pat two seasons, but a gradual, tangible improvement. We may be in an around the relegation spaces for the first few weeks, but nobody ever got relegated in August or even September - and certainly not in JULY!! |  | | |  |
| Amusing or concerning? on 09:27 - Aug 2 with 2268 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Amusing or concerning? on 20:45 - Aug 1 by GloryHunter |
Shellac is a resin secreted by an insect, and used to make a wood varnish.
I'm puzzled as to how shellacking has come to mean a heavy sports defeat.
Unless the imagery is that your team has been coated in gooey varnish and therefore slowed down? Some strange American word play going on there, I imagine. |
No-one knows how this change came about - but shellacking can be compared to the slang use of words such as "plaster" and "paste", meaning to "defeat utterly and completely". Where a defeated British person may have suffered a "pasting" his American counterpart would have endured a "shellacking". |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Amusing or concerning? on 09:37 - Aug 2 with 2221 views | daveB |
I was away at the weekend so followed the game on twitter, the abuse the team, manager and DOF were getting before kick off was incredible so I gave up and just got a mate to send me updates instead
I do think a lot of the criticism is a hangover from last season especially as the performance sounded quite similar to whats come before.
I think this is going to take a while to get right but think we will get better as season goes on, a very tricky first few weeks though where we are going to need a few results to keep people onside. |  | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 10:00 - Aug 2 with 2165 views | traininvain |
| Amusing or concerning? on 09:37 - Aug 2 by daveB |
I was away at the weekend so followed the game on twitter, the abuse the team, manager and DOF were getting before kick off was incredible so I gave up and just got a mate to send me updates instead
I do think a lot of the criticism is a hangover from last season especially as the performance sounded quite similar to whats come before.
I think this is going to take a while to get right but think we will get better as season goes on, a very tricky first few weeks though where we are going to need a few results to keep people onside. |
It’s also a reflection of this country and the wider world. Cost of living crisis, energy prices sky rocketing etc. People are angry and they use football as an outlet to let off steam.
Not saying it’s right but that’s the way I see it. |  | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 10:25 - Aug 2 with 2117 views | francisbowles |
| Amusing or concerning? on 00:28 - Aug 2 by PunteR |
Within the boundaries of our budget are we reaching our full potential? |
I honestly don't know, do you?
I'm not Lee Hoos, Les Ferdinand or the owners, I don't know all the details, so it's impossible for me to get an accurate answer to the question.
Clearly the above don't think we have and therefore made a change to the first team management structure, as well as, allowing expired contract senior players to leave.
They are making an informed decision based but perception plays a large part in it.
It could be argued that we finished above our budget but then so did others and some finished higher than us. I don't believe their is an factual answer to your question. | | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 10:42 - Aug 2 with 2092 views | daveB |
| Amusing or concerning? on 00:28 - Aug 2 by PunteR |
Within the boundaries of our budget are we reaching our full potential? |
our budget was 15th or 16th last season, lower the season before so we have been over achievening but then you see Luton, huddersfield, Millwall, Barnsley etc with similar or lower budgets do better than us so it's understandable to want more
I did think watching the EFL highlights of the weekend last night that a few clubs like Millwall and Luton seemed to have had much better transfer windows than us so far | | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 10:46 - Aug 2 with 2081 views | PunteR |
| Amusing or concerning? on 10:25 - Aug 2 by francisbowles |
I honestly don't know, do you?
I'm not Lee Hoos, Les Ferdinand or the owners, I don't know all the details, so it's impossible for me to get an accurate answer to the question.
Clearly the above don't think we have and therefore made a change to the first team management structure, as well as, allowing expired contract senior players to leave.
They are making an informed decision based but perception plays a large part in it.
It could be argued that we finished above our budget but then so did others and some finished higher than us. I don't believe their is an factual answer to your question. |
We saw flashes of our teams potential last season but never sustained it.
The board blamed the manager and got rid.
The jury is out whether the problem was the manager or its something else behind the scenes.
We've seen teams do much better than us with smaller budgets.
So in my opinion I don't think we are, but like you say it's people's perception of success at QPR.
Some are happy we're still competing at this level( perhaps the board) and some want us to be competing at the top flight which we're more than capable of.
I get it that it's going to take time to get the club running properly. We know it's not going to be an overnight success. But it's still creeping along very slowly. Are we a better team then 4 or 5 years ago?
I think posters have set there stools out early this season. Its going to be a tough job for Beale and Ferdinand. Hopefully they can improve on last season. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Amusing or concerning? on 10:48 - Aug 2 with 2077 views | Northernr |
| Amusing or concerning? on 10:42 - Aug 2 by daveB |
our budget was 15th or 16th last season, lower the season before so we have been over achievening but then you see Luton, huddersfield, Millwall, Barnsley etc with similar or lower budgets do better than us so it's understandable to want more
I did think watching the EFL highlights of the weekend last night that a few clubs like Millwall and Luton seemed to have had much better transfer windows than us so far |
That's where the frustration comes for me. I'll stick up for Les, Lee and the people running our club day to day because I think they inherited a very big mess that could easily have seen us go the way of League One. We're hamstrung by our revenues and ground, past FFP failure, rules of the league etc.
However, we have still wasted money all the way through, while we're meant to be belt tightening - first year of parachute payment, wasters like JET, Perch, Konchesky, for example. That nonsense bullsht with Dillon Barnes. We have spent money on Washington, Polter, Sylla, Dykes, Bonne, similar to that other clubs with the same restrictions as us have spent on Woodrow, Gyokeres, Adebayo, Riis etc. Those questions, for me, are legitimate at this point. |  | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:10 - Aug 2 with 2012 views | ozexile |
| Amusing or concerning? on 10:48 - Aug 2 by Northernr |
That's where the frustration comes for me. I'll stick up for Les, Lee and the people running our club day to day because I think they inherited a very big mess that could easily have seen us go the way of League One. We're hamstrung by our revenues and ground, past FFP failure, rules of the league etc.
However, we have still wasted money all the way through, while we're meant to be belt tightening - first year of parachute payment, wasters like JET, Perch, Konchesky, for example. That nonsense bullsht with Dillon Barnes. We have spent money on Washington, Polter, Sylla, Dykes, Bonne, similar to that other clubs with the same restrictions as us have spent on Woodrow, Gyokeres, Adebayo, Riis etc. Those questions, for me, are legitimate at this point. |
Totally agree and you can add Bonne, Dozzell, Thomas. We most likely will release them for nothing as no one will buy them. | | | |
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| Amusing or concerning? on 11:25 - Aug 2 with 1975 views | francisbowles |
| Amusing or concerning? on 10:48 - Aug 2 by Northernr |
That's where the frustration comes for me. I'll stick up for Les, Lee and the people running our club day to day because I think they inherited a very big mess that could easily have seen us go the way of League One. We're hamstrung by our revenues and ground, past FFP failure, rules of the league etc.
However, we have still wasted money all the way through, while we're meant to be belt tightening - first year of parachute payment, wasters like JET, Perch, Konchesky, for example. That nonsense bullsht with Dillon Barnes. We have spent money on Washington, Polter, Sylla, Dykes, Bonne, similar to that other clubs with the same restrictions as us have spent on Woodrow, Gyokeres, Adebayo, Riis etc. Those questions, for me, are legitimate at this point. |
But is just after a 1-0 away loss, with a new coaching set up, on the first day the right time to ask them? | | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:36 - Aug 2 with 1961 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:10 - Aug 2 by ozexile |
Totally agree and you can add Bonne, Dozzell, Thomas. We most likely will release them for nothing as no one will buy them. |
All of those clubs will have signed players that didn't work out too.
The unrealistic expectation by some fans (not you!) that every signing will 'work' is insane. No club on earth has a ratio even close to that.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't hold the club to high standards of course, nor does it mean money hasn't been 'wasted' but the only way to guarantee no 'waste' is to never sign anyone, ever.
Bonne, who had scored goals in the Champ for a poor side, was certainly worth a punt. Dozzell undoubtedly has talent and was watched extensively and, now forgotten, but he was a key part of the team when we were actually winning games last autumn. Thomas was a free and seen by many as a very shrewd buy.
It's tough. |  |
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| Amusing or concerning? on 11:38 - Aug 2 with 1958 views | Northernr |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:25 - Aug 2 by francisbowles |
But is just after a 1-0 away loss, with a new coaching set up, on the first day the right time to ask them? |
TBF I've been saying this for a while. | | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:46 - Aug 2 with 1920 views | francisbowles |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:38 - Aug 2 by Northernr |
TBF I've been saying this for a while. |
Yes, it was meant as remark to the entire thread not just to your specific questions. | | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:52 - Aug 2 with 1913 views | ted_hendrix |
We're skint and apart from one time we've been skint for as long as I can remember.
The one time we had huge amounts of cash we spent It unwisely and 'paid the price' in a manner of speaking.
We're just gonna have to do the best we can within our budget and take the slaps on the chin when we get slapped.
The club do great things behind the scenes regarding the local community and that's to be commended.
As for on the pitch who knows? we've only played for 94 minutes so far.
As a club if you've got cash and It's spent wisely then there's a good chance that you'll be successful, If like us you're skint then you've gotta work bloody hard at what you do and that includes everyone at the club to gain any chance of success.
Grin and bear It, It's all we've got. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Amusing or concerning? on 12:15 - Aug 2 with 1868 views | EastR |
When MW got the boot the messaging coming out form the club was that the path way from the youth team to the first team squad was blocked. Young players weren’t getting the opportunities to develop, possibly depriving us of both home grown talent in the first team and potentially lucrative sales to make the club more sustainable.
The collapse from being solid play-off contenders in Jan to also rans in May, thereby not delivering on that particular target, was the other factor that resulted in his departure.
The new manager has been quite clear to date about addressing the first of these, and he’s already committed to keeping Armstrong, Masterson, Hamalainen, Shodipo in and around the first team squad. Two of them made appearances on Sat.
He’s also been clear that he wants to see us challenging, not just to a point early in the season but to be there right at the business end. In other words the play offs, promotion.
If we add to the squad to strengthen it, which we probably will, we might achieve a higher finish but isn’t that likely to result in less opportunities for youth players?
And that leaves us back at the point where the club decided that MW exited.
Its gonna be a tough season, and eventually we’ll have to abandon the sack the manager strategy and address other failings. [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 12:23]
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| Amusing or concerning? on 12:20 - Aug 2 with 1844 views | francisbowles |
| Amusing or concerning? on 12:15 - Aug 2 by EastR |
When MW got the boot the messaging coming out form the club was that the path way from the youth team to the first team squad was blocked. Young players weren’t getting the opportunities to develop, possibly depriving us of both home grown talent in the first team and potentially lucrative sales to make the club more sustainable.
The collapse from being solid play-off contenders in Jan to also rans in May, thereby not delivering on that particular target, was the other factor that resulted in his departure.
The new manager has been quite clear to date about addressing the first of these, and he’s already committed to keeping Armstrong, Masterson, Hamalainen, Shodipo in and around the first team squad. Two of them made appearances on Sat.
He’s also been clear that he wants to see us challenging, not just to a point early in the season but to be there right at the business end. In other words the play offs, promotion.
If we add to the squad to strengthen it, which we probably will, we might achieve a higher finish but isn’t that likely to result in less opportunities for youth players?
And that leaves us back at the point where the club decided that MW exited.
Its gonna be a tough season, and eventually we’ll have to abandon the sack the manager strategy and address other failings. [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 12:23]
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MB is gone already? Jeez, it's only one game since he replaced MW. Maybe the twitteratti have it right after all.  [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 12:20]
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| Amusing or concerning? on 13:35 - Aug 2 with 1725 views | paulparker |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:25 - Aug 2 by francisbowles |
But is just after a 1-0 away loss, with a new coaching set up, on the first day the right time to ask them? |
The questions are being asked because it’s not just one game
Since January we have been pathetic, the home games against Fulham, sheff Utd & Peterborough particularly stand out for me I don’ t think we had a shot on target in the second half of them
We have carried that hangover into Blackburn ,
10 years ago the likes of Norwich , Brentford Bournemouth, Watford, Crystal Palace were on our level or below , now they are streets a head of us
Who do we compare to now ? Luton , Millwall , both of them are doing better than us
How long will it be until we can’t compete with them ? |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Amusing or concerning? on 14:38 - Aug 2 with 1662 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Amusing or concerning? on 13:35 - Aug 2 by paulparker |
The questions are being asked because it’s not just one game
Since January we have been pathetic, the home games against Fulham, sheff Utd & Peterborough particularly stand out for me I don’ t think we had a shot on target in the second half of them
We have carried that hangover into Blackburn ,
10 years ago the likes of Norwich , Brentford Bournemouth, Watford, Crystal Palace were on our level or below , now they are streets a head of us
Who do we compare to now ? Luton , Millwall , both of them are doing better than us
How long will it be until we can’t compete with them ? |
Yeah but what about the preceding 12 months before January?
He can’t win can he. Not responsible for the record breaking 12 months winning streak before January, but very responsible for the terrible twelve months slump afterwards?
He’s not perfect, but he’s far from responsible for our deficiencies
For every Bournemouth, Brentford, Luton there is a Wigan, Portsmouth, Sheff Wednesday, Charlton.
The thing Bournemouth, Brentford, and even Luton have in common is that their growth took over a decade.
Stop comparing ourselves to other clubs, as there lies heartbreak.
Long term sustainability and faculty building is the new QPR way and we are doing it, slowly. [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 14:40]
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| Amusing or concerning? on 14:49 - Aug 2 with 1628 views | R_from_afar |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:36 - Aug 2 by Antti_Heinola |
All of those clubs will have signed players that didn't work out too.
The unrealistic expectation by some fans (not you!) that every signing will 'work' is insane. No club on earth has a ratio even close to that.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't hold the club to high standards of course, nor does it mean money hasn't been 'wasted' but the only way to guarantee no 'waste' is to never sign anyone, ever.
Bonne, who had scored goals in the Champ for a poor side, was certainly worth a punt. Dozzell undoubtedly has talent and was watched extensively and, now forgotten, but he was a key part of the team when we were actually winning games last autumn. Thomas was a free and seen by many as a very shrewd buy.
It's tough. |
Indeed, and how do you guarantee success? I don't look at the people who run QPR and think any of them accept failure. Why would they or anyone want all the stress of constantly falling short, not to mention the vitriolic and constant flak from the fans? They want to succeed but there is no magic solution, particularly when Rangers is more constrained by FFP than many of its rivals.
What can they do? They can only try an approach based on a mix of players and a coaching set-up, then try something else if that doesn't work.
How many players, coaches and managers are there that have always succeeded? Example: Even though Boro are a stable, well-run club, Warnock, with all his experience, could not take them up.
The last thing I would say is that some people on here seem to be making this whole debate about where we are into a binary one, i.e. the situation is either ideal or the worst it could possibly be. That's ridiculous. I doubt many of the people who are supportive of Beale, Les and the current squad think they are all perfect and without fault. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Amusing or concerning? on 15:58 - Aug 2 with 1529 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Amusing or concerning? on 14:49 - Aug 2 by R_from_afar |
Indeed, and how do you guarantee success? I don't look at the people who run QPR and think any of them accept failure. Why would they or anyone want all the stress of constantly falling short, not to mention the vitriolic and constant flak from the fans? They want to succeed but there is no magic solution, particularly when Rangers is more constrained by FFP than many of its rivals.
What can they do? They can only try an approach based on a mix of players and a coaching set-up, then try something else if that doesn't work.
How many players, coaches and managers are there that have always succeeded? Example: Even though Boro are a stable, well-run club, Warnock, with all his experience, could not take them up.
The last thing I would say is that some people on here seem to be making this whole debate about where we are into a binary one, i.e. the situation is either ideal or the worst it could possibly be. That's ridiculous. I doubt many of the people who are supportive of Beale, Les and the current squad think they are all perfect and without fault. |
Very perceptive post.
On that last sentence I definitely don’t. | | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 16:38 - Aug 2 with 1477 views | DannytheR |
Looks like a few people have decided that for the first season and a half Warburton was manging the team, we were terrible because of Les. Then we were great for a year because of Warburton. Then for the last six months we were terrible again because of Les.
Whoever is leading on transfers has had a mixed bag of results - and yes, buys like Dykes are starting to look really unwise. But my understanding is that there isn't one single person at the club responsible for transfers, but a group of people the DoF co-ordinates. After the reign of terror of Hughes and Redknapp —Â and others, to be honest —Â we of all clubs should be glad of that, shouldn't we?
Some other clubs of a similar size to us are now doing consistently better —Â Palace feel like the obvious example. Because yeah, they stayed in the Premiership while we TWICE threw it away, under the same owners that people now seem to want to have MORE control of our decision making.
FWIW I don't see that Fulham are a very useful comparison. Though the fans paid for it with the MJ statue, they had years of Al Fayed's money building up their infrastructure and buying success on the pitch while we were passing round collection buckets and lost in the QBlockPete years. Surprise surprise, they turn out to be much better placed for relatively stable success than us.
I'm as much of a winner/glory hunter as the next fan. Rangers were my local team when I started going to games —Â it also didn't hurt that they got to the Cup final that season. But as a club, even treading water like we have been, we're less of an embarrassing basket case that at any point since the Thompson/Francis era. And a lot of that is down to LF.
Yes, we're less successful than the year Warnock took us up, but even that was done with Briatore and Ecclestone making us a laughing stock. The glory days weren't 2010, and even less so 7 and a half years ago. They were the best part of 30.
That's not to say we shouldn't want to get back there - we should. And yes, we should also be buying better than Dykes, and have coached players like Chair and Dickie into being irresistible to Premiership teams by now. Those things are at least partly on Les, for sure.
But let's be honest. A lot of this isn't about wanting lessons to be learned and the successes there have been built on. A lot of it is about people wanting him sacked because a) for whatever reason they never liked him in the first place, b) they think he did the dirty on Warburton and c) they're fcked off with it all and want someone's head on a pole. But firing Les - and presumably Ramsey too, him being "his mate" and all that — won't suddenly give us a board whose judgement can be trusted to find a better replacement.
We're stuck with them - they're stuck with us - and we're all stuck with FFP. For now, I think that's about that isn't it? [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 16:59]
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| Amusing or concerning? on 23:25 - Aug 2 with 1276 views | DejR_vu |
| Amusing or concerning? on 11:46 - Aug 2 by francisbowles |
Yes, it was meant as remark to the entire thread not just to your specific questions. |
Oh dear, that wasn’t the answer you were hoping for was it? Awkward 😉 | |
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| Amusing or concerning? on 09:14 - Aug 3 with 1144 views | derbyhoop |
When people criticise the recent signings, we should note that Paal and JCS were debutants in a defence that played well.
Richards came on, after minimal pre season. And Roberts is still injured.
Of course we don't get everything right but our recent record (Dickie, Dunne, willock, JoJo, Amos, Field) has worked pretty well.u |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Amusing or concerning? on 09:49 - Aug 3 with 1103 views | francisbowles |
| Amusing or concerning? on 13:35 - Aug 2 by paulparker |
The questions are being asked because it’s not just one game
Since January we have been pathetic, the home games against Fulham, sheff Utd & Peterborough particularly stand out for me I don’ t think we had a shot on target in the second half of them
We have carried that hangover into Blackburn ,
10 years ago the likes of Norwich , Brentford Bournemouth, Watford, Crystal Palace were on our level or below , now they are streets a head of us
Who do we compare to now ? Luton , Millwall , both of them are doing better than us
How long will it be until we can’t compete with them ? |
The questions have been relevant and are relevant going forward BUT change has and is being implemented with the coaching and the players.
They have had one match and we really only had about seven or eight of the team for this fixture that we would like to have in a few weeks.
Should we not give the questions a rest for at least a few games, until we see how the changes work out? | | | |
| Amusing or concerning? on 09:51 - Aug 3 with 1088 views | francisbowles |
| Amusing or concerning? on 23:25 - Aug 2 by DejR_vu |
Oh dear, that wasn’t the answer you were hoping for was it? Awkward 😉 |
No. | | | |
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