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Up against Man City in the FFS that was offside FA Cup. I prepare to stand corrected but I think Charlie is still our player but as I take as much interest in modern football players contracts and transfers as I do in mobile phone contracts I could be wrong. Either way seems like a good lad and having a decent season with a club I like so up the O’s!
Up against a central defender today in Ruben Dias who’s worth approx £75 mil … would love to see Charlie meg him.
[Post edited 8 Feb 12:07]
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Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 20:17 - Feb 18 with 3112 views
Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 15:24 - Feb 14 by kensalriser
"deemed by many at the club that he is the best finisher"
I've only ever seen this attributed to a one-time and probably off the cuff remark by Warburton. Happy to be proved wrong, otherwise we should probably acknowledge the repeated decision making over years that's put Kelman a long way down the strikers' pecking order.
Whoever said that can be 'deemed' to be the worst assessor of footballing talent imaginable. And we've had plenty!
Celar has 47 goals in 164 league games, including 2 in 19 for us.
Kelman has 28 league goals in 165 league games, including 0 in 23 for us.
I agree that Kelman has some potential and we should at least take another look at him. But no way does he rank ahead of Celar in the pecking order.
Celar apart from one game has shown absolutely nothing for us.
Think he is couple years older too.
Around 80% of his goals are in the Swiss league, which would be likely on level with league one at best. Yes he is an international centre forward. 17 appearances and zero goals. 19 appearances for ourselves - just 2 goals in one game and he contributes nothing else. Hasn't even looked like he was trying at all. No press and ran away from the ball.
Yes he has had some success elsewhere and we have had top internationals here with great records who did nothing here.
And why do we suddenly think that after half a season showing nothing at all, apart from two goals in one game, he contributes nothing else on the pitch. Don't think he is able to adjust to our league and country.
Kelman had shown nothing until this season but is contributing in many different ways at Orient now. Was very impressive against a strong Man City team and is really picking up now. It was his all round play I was impressed by.
He has 20 odd appearance level for United States. A far better footballing mation than Slovenia / Slovakia (can't remember which - sorry). 17 appearances for a second rate footballing nation and zero goals.
If we could get rid of Celar for a reasonable fee, yes absolutely would have Kelman in his place.
Charlie is proving something this season, definitely better. Celar is likely to be earning a lot more than Kelman and we have to best balance the books, give Charlie a year, if it's really not working, we can get him league one loan in January with option to buy, so he would be very cheap. No fee to pat to extend his contract, but give the guy a chance I say.
So far what is it in Celar that you think offers the all round package of the man, ie more expensive by far, seems really struggle in our team, his game is not at all showing with our style of play and also looks like sometimes he hides from the ball and unless he scores a few goals, goes into hiding.
If we can get a decent amount of money from someone elsewhere, Kelman is streets ahead of Celar for me.
What is it about Celar that you think is decent.
19 games and only scored in one. 17 caps. Zero goals. Only ever scored in Switzerland.
For me , Kelman is having a fine season.
Yes there are the Connor Washington's around from league one , but not all league one players fail. He is nowhere near the level of Ivan Toney but he was in league one until late in his career. And he would cost nothing.
But yes crack on. Keep Celar and Get rid of Charlie for nothing.
Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 14:03 - Feb 19 by numptydumpty
Celar apart from one game has shown absolutely nothing for us.
Think he is couple years older too.
Around 80% of his goals are in the Swiss league, which would be likely on level with league one at best. Yes he is an international centre forward. 17 appearances and zero goals. 19 appearances for ourselves - just 2 goals in one game and he contributes nothing else. Hasn't even looked like he was trying at all. No press and ran away from the ball.
Yes he has had some success elsewhere and we have had top internationals here with great records who did nothing here.
And why do we suddenly think that after half a season showing nothing at all, apart from two goals in one game, he contributes nothing else on the pitch. Don't think he is able to adjust to our league and country.
Kelman had shown nothing until this season but is contributing in many different ways at Orient now. Was very impressive against a strong Man City team and is really picking up now. It was his all round play I was impressed by.
He has 20 odd appearance level for United States. A far better footballing mation than Slovenia / Slovakia (can't remember which - sorry). 17 appearances for a second rate footballing nation and zero goals.
If we could get rid of Celar for a reasonable fee, yes absolutely would have Kelman in his place.
Charlie is proving something this season, definitely better. Celar is likely to be earning a lot more than Kelman and we have to best balance the books, give Charlie a year, if it's really not working, we can get him league one loan in January with option to buy, so he would be very cheap. No fee to pat to extend his contract, but give the guy a chance I say.
So far what is it in Celar that you think offers the all round package of the man, ie more expensive by far, seems really struggle in our team, his game is not at all showing with our style of play and also looks like sometimes he hides from the ball and unless he scores a few goals, goes into hiding.
If we can get a decent amount of money from someone elsewhere, Kelman is streets ahead of Celar for me.
What is it about Celar that you think is decent.
19 games and only scored in one. 17 caps. Zero goals. Only ever scored in Switzerland.
For me , Kelman is having a fine season.
Yes there are the Connor Washington's around from league one , but not all league one players fail. He is nowhere near the level of Ivan Toney but he was in league one until late in his career. And he would cost nothing.
But yes crack on. Keep Celar and Get rid of Charlie for nothing.
[Post edited 19 Feb 14:22]
Difficult to argue with any of that.
Celar took a long time to adapt and you are right to say he hasn't done much. But how many strikers have we had in recent years who would have finished the two he scored at Cardiff? Particularly the one-on-one second goal where you have time to think and maybe overthink!? (Dykes? Frey?)
Kelman is small and not particularly quick. So what does he offer to suggest he will crack it at this level? Everyone talks about his finishing but his goals per game average out at not much better than one in every six games, and all of those were scored in L1 and L2.
I get the doubts about Celar but he has shown he can finish at this level and he was showing signs of improvement in his play before he got injured.
For me Kelman still has it all to prove at Championship level. It could be a big pre-season for him this summer.
So for now I would still put Celar well ahead of Kelman.
[Post edited 19 Feb 14:26]
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Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 14:30 - Feb 19 with 1398 views
Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 14:19 - Feb 19 by KensalT
Difficult to argue with any of that.
Celar took a long time to adapt and you are right to say he hasn't done much. But how many strikers have we had in recent years who would have finished the two he scored at Cardiff? Particularly the one-on-one second goal where you have time to think and maybe overthink!? (Dykes? Frey?)
Kelman is small and not particularly quick. So what does he offer to suggest he will crack it at this level? Everyone talks about his finishing but his goals per game average out at not much better than one in every six games, and all of those were scored in L1 and L2.
I get the doubts about Celar but he has shown he can finish at this level and he was showing signs of improvement in his play before he got injured.
For me Kelman still has it all to prove at Championship level. It could be a big pre-season for him this summer.
So for now I would still put Celar well ahead of Kelman.
[Post edited 19 Feb 14:26]
You saying Celar has shown he can score at this level.
Beg to differ.
He has only scored two goals in one game.
I am not judging Charlie on previous seasons.
This season he has improved. So his goal to game ratio is irrelevant. It's how he is currently that is more important.
I guess you did not watch the Orients game against Man City. He stretched their defence time after time and also held the ball up well also and made some decent challenges also.He has improved.
Celar has shown nothing apart from two games. Doesn't hold up the ball. Doesn't press at all. Runs away from the ball at times. Doesn't tackle.
On past seasons yes would get rid of Kelman but football is about how a player is performing now.
This season is a lot different. Have you seen Charlie's recent games and goals. There is some impressive performances there.
But Celar has proved nothing currently and would be three times more expensive in the long run.
Yes Kelman is unproven at this level, but it's like if Kelman / Celar fighting for number three centre forward position in the squad, you would want the one with the better all round game with the likelihood of scoring more goals and being the cheaper option and to take Kelman on a one year contract with an option to extend who if not proven can sell and loan to league one, there is no risk there.
Celar would be much more expensive and I very much doubt he will ever be number one or two choice. A decent sale a la Armstrong i feel is the way to go.
But if Celar gets chances the rest of the season and burns up the league, then all well and good - can't see that happening, but love to be proven wrong.
Money is another element in this decision for me too.
Lots of good perspective from both sides of the argument.
At the end of the day it will be all about how he ends the season and running the ruler over him just as we would a new signing (with the advantage he’s ours already). The whole point of the loan is for him to grow, improve and show his true level. We’ll certainly find out when he comes back.
Hope the lad finishes the season strong and makes the step up for us.
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Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 14:37 - Feb 19 with 1343 views
I liked Paul Smyth when he was initially with us. He ended up at Leyton Orient, and he flourished there. So much so that we signed him again. He’s been very good for us in his second spell thus far.
Charlie Kelman is our player, and he’s flourishing at Leyton Orient. We don’t have to sign him back as he’s ours. I think we should give him a chance next season. This current loan to LO could be the making of him.
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Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 14:39 - Feb 19 with 1329 views
Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 14:37 - Feb 19 by Snipper
I liked Paul Smyth when he was initially with us. He ended up at Leyton Orient, and he flourished there. So much so that we signed him again. He’s been very good for us in his second spell thus far.
Charlie Kelman is our player, and he’s flourishing at Leyton Orient. We don’t have to sign him back as he’s ours. I think we should give him a chance next season. This current loan to LO could be the making of him.
Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 14:30 - Feb 19 by numptydumpty
You saying Celar has shown he can score at this level.
Beg to differ.
He has only scored two goals in one game.
I am not judging Charlie on previous seasons.
This season he has improved. So his goal to game ratio is irrelevant. It's how he is currently that is more important.
I guess you did not watch the Orients game against Man City. He stretched their defence time after time and also held the ball up well also and made some decent challenges also.He has improved.
Celar has shown nothing apart from two games. Doesn't hold up the ball. Doesn't press at all. Runs away from the ball at times. Doesn't tackle.
On past seasons yes would get rid of Kelman but football is about how a player is performing now.
This season is a lot different. Have you seen Charlie's recent games and goals. There is some impressive performances there.
But Celar has proved nothing currently and would be three times more expensive in the long run.
Yes Kelman is unproven at this level, but it's like if Kelman / Celar fighting for number three centre forward position in the squad, you would want the one with the better all round game with the likelihood of scoring more goals and being the cheaper option and to take Kelman on a one year contract with an option to extend who if not proven can sell and loan to league one, there is no risk there.
Celar would be much more expensive and I very much doubt he will ever be number one or two choice. A decent sale a la Armstrong i feel is the way to go.
But if Celar gets chances the rest of the season and burns up the league, then all well and good - can't see that happening, but love to be proven wrong.
Money is another element in this decision for me too.
[Post edited 19 Feb 14:38]
Four times Conor Washington hit over ten goals in a L1 season. But he never got anywhere near that in the Championship.
I hope Kelman makes the step up. But until he does let's just agree to disagree, or we'll end up going around in circles.
You are basing your entire argument on he could be the next Conor Washington.
There are extremes both ways.
Vardy Toney and way back Les himself.
Mid twenties onwards they all had very low level experience only.
Wasn't saying it's certain Charlie will perform, but there are good signs and it's low risk whereas Celar is unsettled, high risk and expensive.
I can't see there is anything that you have said anything other than you don't want to sign Conor Washington mark two, who cost about £4 million. Charlie would be free.
That's like saying we will never sign anyone who is proven at a lower level ever.
We did this just this season, with getting many in from weak leagues around Europe, of which several have adjusted to the higher level. Celar was one of those himself, but has been a disaster so far.
You can't know with any one signing whether it's going to work, ahead of the purchase.
Given that half decent strikers are in such short supply Charlie should be given one last chance for us.If we let him go ive a feeling he could be another Dougie Freedman.
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Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient on 19:54 - Feb 20 with 477 views
IF CN decided to look at the lower leagues for a Celar replacement, Kelman ticks alot of boxes as a consideration...yes and he is (currently) ours. IF he was at Loftus i have no doubt he would be on the team sheet. I thought the given LO's transfer business in Jan, he might be out instead he has gotten better. Given the dialogue earlier on this string, maybe it has just all clicked.
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