| Cargiant site on 11:16 - May 19 with 4133 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 11:00 - May 19 by Lblock |
This is industry parlance........ taking the word of a Contractor as literal is always risky!
I have to agree with these "recruiters and suppliers".
These lads are at the sharp end and (I'd imagine) old enough to smell another big downturn when one is in the offing. They call the Construction Industry "the barometer of the economy" for a reason and it is undeniably the first to feel the effects.... and I tell you I can feel them.
Come end of August we'll be turning off the lights and locking the doors.
We have ZERO live works to move both my teams onto and that is a huge concern.
Could see this coming just before Christmas and, as much as certain people can blame Brexit, Trump, golbal pressures, this is a direct result of govermental policy. Rachel from Accounts will be bang in trouble as the Autumn leaves fall IMHO.
So... yes... factually you are correct that things are being bult. They alway will be, especially in London.
However don't be decieved that the industry is buzzing like it was 2 to 4 years ago.
On the Car Giant site -- anyone who thinks the land cost can justify a football ground needs to see a professional head wobbler. No chance.
The Dairy Crest site was the same - I was working with Helical Bar on another job at the time and one of their Senior Directors told me there was zero possibilty of that being anything other than a dense modern day resedential development or it would be "the most expensive smallest football ground in the world".
London land costs in and around W12 remain eye watering and will do so forever.
The answer is Loftus Road but how that works I do not know. |
best wishes L block we are speaking to more people every week in the same boat as yourselves . been through four full recssions and covid and nothing comes close to what is happening at the moment , we at the sharp end wish we wasnt trust me
i always saw dairy crest as the chance to do a arsenal myself build the stadium by the railway line end of the site then sell of the rest or develop the land themselves for flats etc to help finance the stadium build , it seems way to logical maybe esp when we had amits mate on board jamie ruebn whos field is that very thing . |  |
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| Cargiant site on 12:18 - May 19 with 3966 views | TK1 |
| Cargiant site on 11:00 - May 19 by Lblock |
This is industry parlance........ taking the word of a Contractor as literal is always risky!
I have to agree with these "recruiters and suppliers".
These lads are at the sharp end and (I'd imagine) old enough to smell another big downturn when one is in the offing. They call the Construction Industry "the barometer of the economy" for a reason and it is undeniably the first to feel the effects.... and I tell you I can feel them.
Come end of August we'll be turning off the lights and locking the doors.
We have ZERO live works to move both my teams onto and that is a huge concern.
Could see this coming just before Christmas and, as much as certain people can blame Brexit, Trump, golbal pressures, this is a direct result of govermental policy. Rachel from Accounts will be bang in trouble as the Autumn leaves fall IMHO.
So... yes... factually you are correct that things are being bult. They alway will be, especially in London.
However don't be decieved that the industry is buzzing like it was 2 to 4 years ago.
On the Car Giant site -- anyone who thinks the land cost can justify a football ground needs to see a professional head wobbler. No chance.
The Dairy Crest site was the same - I was working with Helical Bar on another job at the time and one of their Senior Directors told me there was zero possibilty of that being anything other than a dense modern day resedential development or it would be "the most expensive smallest football ground in the world".
London land costs in and around W12 remain eye watering and will do so forever.
The answer is Loftus Road but how that works I do not know. |
"The answer is Loftus Road but how that works I do not know."
I have said this before, but that was I believe the club's conclusion too. There is I believe a plan that some have worked on that delivers a new Loftus Road Stadium.
It doesn't matter how many times posters drop Doncaster Rovers' ground's footprint onto the current Loftus Road site and declare a fullscale renovation impossible, it is possible if one applies radical thinking.
However, I imagine the Car Giant site may also be viable, or at least possibly a component, and has perhaps paused these plans. I don't know.
And yes, Car Giant/OOC is potentially a huge site and development. But it's potential only. Think how radically one end of South Africa Road/White City has been developed over the last decade or so, think of all the transport links already there, a new station delivered even, not waiting to be finished, then think of the QPR/Jack Tizard end of SAR, and imagine SAR and the White City estate as all as one big on-going redevelopment, yet to be fully revealed, a bit like OOC but a decade ahead of that site.
Anyway, just spitballing. As I imagine Rueben and H&F Council have at length for many years. Otherwise, why spunk £20m a year to standstill in the second tier of English football. Legacies and exits... |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 14:13 - May 19 with 3748 views | TK1 |
Anyone who just watched Heidi Alexander's statement in HoC about HS2 will perhaps be adjusting plans for Old Oak and Car Giant, btw.
Now HS2 is not due to run from Old Oak to Birmingham until sometime between May 2036 and 2039. No trains to Euston before 2040, probably 2043. This is a ten-year delay.
Another decade away for your sexy travel hub at the very earliest, probably much later. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 14:22 - May 19 with 3702 views | Markofthegrove |
| Cargiant site on 14:13 - May 19 by TK1 |
Anyone who just watched Heidi Alexander's statement in HoC about HS2 will perhaps be adjusting plans for Old Oak and Car Giant, btw.
Now HS2 is not due to run from Old Oak to Birmingham until sometime between May 2036 and 2039. No trains to Euston before 2040, probably 2043. This is a ten-year delay.
Another decade away for your sexy travel hub at the very earliest, probably much later. |
The money that's been pilfered from the taxpayer on this is desirible. Cronyism at it's finest. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 14:23 - May 19 with 3696 views | TheChef |
| Cargiant site on 14:22 - May 19 by Markofthegrove |
The money that's been pilfered from the taxpayer on this is desirible. Cronyism at it's finest. |
"WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY" |  |
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| Cargiant site on 14:24 - May 19 with 3690 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Cargiant site on 14:13 - May 19 by TK1 |
Anyone who just watched Heidi Alexander's statement in HoC about HS2 will perhaps be adjusting plans for Old Oak and Car Giant, btw.
Now HS2 is not due to run from Old Oak to Birmingham until sometime between May 2036 and 2039. No trains to Euston before 2040, probably 2043. This is a ten-year delay.
Another decade away for your sexy travel hub at the very earliest, probably much later. |
Meanwhile in Vietnam...
https://www.railjournal.com/pa |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 14:30 - May 19 with 3656 views | Markofthegrove |
Non-related to the car giant site but also kind of related to the topic......
The cycle lane on wood lane has taken a year to be built. parts of it are finished but have been left closed.
It is absolutely insane how public infrastructure jobs take so long in this country. Meanwhile, Asia presses on. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 14:44 - May 19 with 3604 views | ActonExile |
Not overly sure why you would run it into Euston anyway, HS2 runs into Old Oak Common, Crossrail runs from OOC through central London to Stratford and HS1 runs from Stratford to mainland Europe. | |
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| Cargiant site on 14:56 - May 19 with 3553 views | Juzzie |
| Cargiant site on 14:13 - May 19 by TK1 |
Anyone who just watched Heidi Alexander's statement in HoC about HS2 will perhaps be adjusting plans for Old Oak and Car Giant, btw.
Now HS2 is not due to run from Old Oak to Birmingham until sometime between May 2036 and 2039. No trains to Euston before 2040, probably 2043. This is a ten-year delay.
Another decade away for your sexy travel hub at the very earliest, probably much later. |
All that to save 20 minutes, apparently. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:43 - May 19 with 3393 views | hubble |
| Cargiant site on 14:13 - May 19 by TK1 |
Anyone who just watched Heidi Alexander's statement in HoC about HS2 will perhaps be adjusting plans for Old Oak and Car Giant, btw.
Now HS2 is not due to run from Old Oak to Birmingham until sometime between May 2036 and 2039. No trains to Euston before 2040, probably 2043. This is a ten-year delay.
Another decade away for your sexy travel hub at the very earliest, probably much later. |
It will take a decade (at least) to develop the site, so those delays are of no consequence, because by the time the site - and maybe a new stadium - are ready, the sexy travel hub will be fully operational. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 16:20 - May 19 with 3312 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 15:43 - May 19 by hubble |
It will take a decade (at least) to develop the site, so those delays are of no consequence, because by the time the site - and maybe a new stadium - are ready, the sexy travel hub will be fully operational. |
ill be way past caring by the time it starts thats for sure | |
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| Cargiant site on 16:31 - May 19 with 3271 views | loftboy |
I don’t know to be depressed or happy that I’m unlikely in my lifetime to see us play at home anywhere other than Loftus Road. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 16:46 - May 19 with 3195 views | BklynRanger |
That should be pretty amazing - will put that whole spectacular area of Halong Bay within easy reach of Hanoi.
Will hopefully be ready for my retirement there in eh... 2039ish |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:48 - May 19 with 3186 views | TK1 |
| Cargiant site on 15:43 - May 19 by hubble |
It will take a decade (at least) to develop the site, so those delays are of no consequence, because by the time the site - and maybe a new stadium - are ready, the sexy travel hub will be fully operational. |
Those plans are of huge consequence. That decade-long delay is a deal changer. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:49 - May 19 with 3184 views | loftus77 |
Yep, clearly there are people posting on here who have worked in, or close to, the construction industry and know a lot more than I ever will. As a layman, the CarGiant site sounds to me like a real opportunity for Rangers - but it has to be clearly viable and realistic on all fronts (transport, construction, finance) from, say, the mid-2030s onwards. There are convincing arguments on this thread that it just isn’t, and can’t be.
Which then comes back to the old question – what can (realistically, credibly) be done with the old (certainly) girl that is our home, Loftus Road? The ‘rotate-the-pitch 90 degrees-plan’ was exposed for what it was at the recent CN meeting with fan sites. We can’t dig down, up or across/out in any direction without radical and extremely unlikely agreements with H&F council. It’s a real ongoing conundrum. A time for (viable) ideas. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:54 - May 19 with 3160 views | SpongeParr |
| Cargiant site on 16:49 - May 19 by loftus77 |
Yep, clearly there are people posting on here who have worked in, or close to, the construction industry and know a lot more than I ever will. As a layman, the CarGiant site sounds to me like a real opportunity for Rangers - but it has to be clearly viable and realistic on all fronts (transport, construction, finance) from, say, the mid-2030s onwards. There are convincing arguments on this thread that it just isn’t, and can’t be.
Which then comes back to the old question – what can (realistically, credibly) be done with the old (certainly) girl that is our home, Loftus Road? The ‘rotate-the-pitch 90 degrees-plan’ was exposed for what it was at the recent CN meeting with fan sites. We can’t dig down, up or across/out in any direction without radical and extremely unlikely agreements with H&F council. It’s a real ongoing conundrum. A time for (viable) ideas. |
Answered your own question there. Without the council and being able to build out over SAR, we cannot do anything drastic that will have a impact on size. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:55 - May 19 with 3155 views | NorthantsHoop |
| Cargiant site on 14:22 - May 19 by Markofthegrove |
The money that's been pilfered from the taxpayer on this is desirible. Cronyism at it's finest. |
It is, the HS2 project is a mess and I can speak as someone who worked for the DfT when the plans were started circa around 2009 under the Brown Labour government. A total vanity project driven forward by the vested interests of the rail industry that lacks the balls to deliver the bit that would open up high speed rail and re-generate the north i.e. building the Y bit from Birmingham to Leeds & Manchester. Once Cameron's new 2010 Tory/Liberal government gave the go ahead for HS2 the panic really began and the waste of public money on consultants, lawyers, HS2 Ltd company etc. and the realisation that to re-build Euston better just get on and do the first bit of HS2 from London to Birmingham and even in those days that was supposed to be built and open in 2026 with the Leeds & Manchester section opening in 2033. The northern bit has gone, Euston re-build has been shoved back 20 years and it is costing 5 times as much as orginally planned. But I do sort of hope that the Car Giant for a new QPR stadium starts to take off, as we need a spark to regenerate our fortunes, just can't see Loftus Road as a re-build option as a goer, far too many barriers in the way in my opinion. [Post edited 19 May 16:55]
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| Cargiant site on 17:20 - May 19 with 3086 views | TK1 |
| Cargiant site on 16:49 - May 19 by loftus77 |
Yep, clearly there are people posting on here who have worked in, or close to, the construction industry and know a lot more than I ever will. As a layman, the CarGiant site sounds to me like a real opportunity for Rangers - but it has to be clearly viable and realistic on all fronts (transport, construction, finance) from, say, the mid-2030s onwards. There are convincing arguments on this thread that it just isn’t, and can’t be.
Which then comes back to the old question – what can (realistically, credibly) be done with the old (certainly) girl that is our home, Loftus Road? The ‘rotate-the-pitch 90 degrees-plan’ was exposed for what it was at the recent CN meeting with fan sites. We can’t dig down, up or across/out in any direction without radical and extremely unlikely agreements with H&F council. It’s a real ongoing conundrum. A time for (viable) ideas. |
We have no idea what is possible and what H&F would/have agreed to. That's not a dig, by the way. It's just true. It's really not worth guessing viable ideas because what is viable to us looking on Google maps or whatever is not the reality of plans that H&F have for the area.
But one end of White City and South Africa Road has been massively redeveloped in a way that would seem impossible in 70s, 80s, 90s, even 00s. Development has been rolling west from Shepherds Bush for a decade and it will continue down South Africa Road.
White City Estate is next to be redeveloped, with 250 new homes and infrastructure planned by end of 2027. QPR is a key geographical stakeholder in this, so let's see what transpires.
But CN's answer did not expose anything about moving the pitch, nor redevelopment, and he would not comment properly anyway, because it's a much bigger question about the whole of the site, White City Estate and South Africa Road. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:14 - May 20 with 2627 views | KensalT |
| Cargiant site on 17:20 - May 19 by TK1 |
We have no idea what is possible and what H&F would/have agreed to. That's not a dig, by the way. It's just true. It's really not worth guessing viable ideas because what is viable to us looking on Google maps or whatever is not the reality of plans that H&F have for the area.
But one end of White City and South Africa Road has been massively redeveloped in a way that would seem impossible in 70s, 80s, 90s, even 00s. Development has been rolling west from Shepherds Bush for a decade and it will continue down South Africa Road.
White City Estate is next to be redeveloped, with 250 new homes and infrastructure planned by end of 2027. QPR is a key geographical stakeholder in this, so let's see what transpires.
But CN's answer did not expose anything about moving the pitch, nor redevelopment, and he would not comment properly anyway, because it's a much bigger question about the whole of the site, White City Estate and South Africa Road. |
In my view the two biggest problems we had with our original Old Oak plans were:
1. We never secured the land before we started mouthing off about what we would do there
2. We thought we could do it alone and didn't suck up to local and national government to get them onside
Up at the other end of HS2 (if it ever gets built) Birmingham has gone about it completely differently
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| Cargiant site on 01:39 - May 21 with 2312 views | Boston |
| Cargiant site on 16:20 - May 19 by wombat |
ill be way past caring by the time it starts thats for sure |
Chin up Wombat, pills for the sexy travel hub are widely available. | |
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| Cargiant site on 10:09 - May 21 with 2085 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 01:39 - May 21 by Boston |
Chin up Wombat, pills for the sexy travel hub are widely available. |
lol im already set up on a subsrciption , in all honesty ill be early 70s by the time it starts , i wont be worried about getting to bham ten mins earlier, ill just be worried i can make it to the downstairs toilet and remember why i went there in the first place. | |
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| Cargiant site on 21:37 - May 21 with 1697 views | RangersDave3 |
I seem to remember, that when the HS2 was in the planning stage, the Chinese said, in as many words…… you give us the contract and we will build it cheaper and quicker (3 years I think they said).
Obviously now, the Chinese lost……. Or did they? I mean Christ on a bike, look at how mich a bat tunnel on the line is costing….. £109m for 1 freeking bat tunnel.
Ow before any of you say….. yes but it’s the Chinese init, and look at Temu for shoddy shit, I can assure you that I’ve travelled on the Chinese rail system thoroughly, and found it efficient and fast. Almost to the second.
Rather like a new ground for rangers, we shat ourselves in our feet.
We could have had it for cheaper, with a higher speed etc.
I also had the fortune of travelling the Shanghai Maglev! My word, 120km before it cleared the platform end, all the way up rotors big double figures in speed, having to slow down at the half way point of the journey.
It seems we just cannot do anything quickly, efficiently, that won’t need changing or moving or adding to bloody bat tunnels to keep the bierdy wierdies at bay. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 22:38 - May 21 with 1588 views | numptydumpty |
| Cargiant site on 10:09 - May 21 by wombat |
lol im already set up on a subsrciption , in all honesty ill be early 70s by the time it starts , i wont be worried about getting to bham ten mins earlier, ill just be worried i can make it to the downstairs toilet and remember why i went there in the first place. |
I do that already with the toilet too Wombat, but according to the lady of this house , apparently when am in the toilet that i had forgotten about, i am not a great shot.
It has been mentioned once or twice. |  |
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