| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty 13:03 - May 7 with 10436 views | KensalT |
Damning
[Post edited 7 May 13:06]
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| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 10:36 - May 8 with 1867 views | KensalT |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 09:39 - May 8 by TheChef |
Anyone know Brooklyn Nets' injury record since Williams left? |
They're not having much luck with injuries, but mostly they are joints, sprains, or illness. They currently have only one player out with a hamstring injury.
IIRC they had seven hamstrings while BW was with them.
https://www.si.com/nba/nets/on
To put it in context, hamstring injuries are quite common in basketball. I can't find the data now but I seem to recall that three hamstring injuries per team per season is about average.
The Nets having seven under Williams was a bit of an outlier. There might have been contributory factors such as age of the players or history of previous hamstring injuries. But he was well above par. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 11:03 - May 8 with 1754 views | TheChef |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 10:36 - May 8 by KensalT |
They're not having much luck with injuries, but mostly they are joints, sprains, or illness. They currently have only one player out with a hamstring injury.
IIRC they had seven hamstrings while BW was with them.
https://www.si.com/nba/nets/on
To put it in context, hamstring injuries are quite common in basketball. I can't find the data now but I seem to recall that three hamstring injuries per team per season is about average.
The Nets having seven under Williams was a bit of an outlier. There might have been contributory factors such as age of the players or history of previous hamstring injuries. But he was well above par. |
Clearly unfortunate - poor old Unlucky Ben  |  |
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| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 12:11 - May 8 with 1698 views | KensalT |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 09:13 - May 8 by daveB |
all depends on what metrics they use for this 90% figure. If it's 90% available to train that is probably about right but less accurate if it's available to play the next match.The likes of Chair, Burrell and Madsen were all back in training a few weeks before they were able to start a game |
You are absolutely right.
Of course you are.
So why doesn't the club explain itself and clear up all the confusion and suspicion about what exactly the number means and how they came up with it? | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 12:45 - May 8 with 1624 views | Northernr |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 12:11 - May 8 by KensalT |
You are absolutely right.
Of course you are.
So why doesn't the club explain itself and clear up all the confusion and suspicion about what exactly the number means and how they came up with it? |
Why doesn't the club concentrate more on fixing this problem and less on trotting out BS stats trying to prove it's not a problem? |  | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 12:55 - May 8 with 1602 views | KensalT |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 12:45 - May 8 by Northernr |
Why doesn't the club concentrate more on fixing this problem and less on trotting out BS stats trying to prove it's not a problem? |
That's an even better question.
Except that they keep telling us there is no problem because 90% availability.
I'm not sure which would be more concerning, that they might be wilfully misleading us or that they might genuinely believe their own BS.
Either way I don't think Nourry and Williams have any incentive to admit the problem. That pressure would have to come from above. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 13:01 - May 8 with 1581 views | Northernr |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 12:55 - May 8 by KensalT |
That's an even better question.
Except that they keep telling us there is no problem because 90% availability.
I'm not sure which would be more concerning, that they might be wilfully misleading us or that they might genuinely believe their own BS.
Either way I don't think Nourry and Williams have any incentive to admit the problem. That pressure would have to come from above. |
They should just admit it, because it again erodes trust and damages the relationship with the fans when they don't, but I'm less interested in that than them actually doing something to fix the problem rather than tucking people up who aren't doing their job. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 13:08 - May 8 with 1572 views | KensalT |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 13:01 - May 8 by Northernr |
They should just admit it, because it again erodes trust and damages the relationship with the fans when they don't, but I'm less interested in that than them actually doing something to fix the problem rather than tucking people up who aren't doing their job. |
Agree.
Things might come to a head this summer if (as seems likely) they need to make a sizeable sale or two to balance the books.
Burrell and Madsen would have been prime candidates for a move and decent fees, except their injuries now makes that less likely.
If there's one thing that might cause a rift between Nourry and Williams it's long term injuries to key assets. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 15:31 - May 8 with 1444 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 13:08 - May 8 by KensalT |
Agree.
Things might come to a head this summer if (as seems likely) they need to make a sizeable sale or two to balance the books.
Burrell and Madsen would have been prime candidates for a move and decent fees, except their injuries now makes that less likely.
If there's one thing that might cause a rift between Nourry and Williams it's long term injuries to key assets. |
Thats the weird bit, right?
Arguably Burrell is a candidate to sell this summer, we bought him cheap no one expected anything and hes proved he can score at Champ level, great.
Lets say he's worth £5 - £10m
We flog the arse out of him and run him every game until his hamstring explodes, fine this happens.
But, why risk your asset to bring him back for a dead rubber game just for him to be injured again?
No-one is coming in for him in the summer at that top end now, because (like Michael Owen) Burrell's game is all about explosive pace.
Now, other clubs are going to have to wait and see what condition he is in next year.
BW could have cost the club millions by rushing him back, just to get his stats up.
grade a bullsh1ter, and in most other jobs you'd be binned off for that alone, but add that to the plethora of other injuries, including the handling of Chair and its near criminal.
I wouldn't be so bothered, but BW is so arrogant he doubled down in that podcast peddling some nonsense 90% stat he's pulled out of his R's |  | | |
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| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 15:39 - May 8 with 1424 views | kensalriser |
Time to stop the 'cycling Ben' business.
If someone has a Phd in sports science and is good at what they do, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to move from one competence to another within the same general discipline and learn the ropes rapidly. People change jobs like this all the time. It's not like asking an accountant to become a surgeon.
In other words, if he's not doing a good job it has nothing to do with what he did previously, it's because he's fundamentally not competent. |  |
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| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:19 - May 8 with 1387 views | KensalT |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 15:31 - May 8 by nick_hammersmith |
Thats the weird bit, right?
Arguably Burrell is a candidate to sell this summer, we bought him cheap no one expected anything and hes proved he can score at Champ level, great.
Lets say he's worth £5 - £10m
We flog the arse out of him and run him every game until his hamstring explodes, fine this happens.
But, why risk your asset to bring him back for a dead rubber game just for him to be injured again?
No-one is coming in for him in the summer at that top end now, because (like Michael Owen) Burrell's game is all about explosive pace.
Now, other clubs are going to have to wait and see what condition he is in next year.
BW could have cost the club millions by rushing him back, just to get his stats up.
grade a bullsh1ter, and in most other jobs you'd be binned off for that alone, but add that to the plethora of other injuries, including the handling of Chair and its near criminal.
I wouldn't be so bothered, but BW is so arrogant he doubled down in that podcast peddling some nonsense 90% stat he's pulled out of his R's |
The only reason I can think of to bring back Burrell and Madsen for these meaningless end of season games is that the club (Nourry) wanted to prove their fitness before putting them in the shop window this summer.
That has now completely blown up in Burrell's case. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:26 - May 8 with 1376 views | dmm |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:19 - May 8 by KensalT |
The only reason I can think of to bring back Burrell and Madsen for these meaningless end of season games is that the club (Nourry) wanted to prove their fitness before putting them in the shop window this summer.
That has now completely blown up in Burrell's case. |
Could it not have been Williams (wrongly) telling Stephan they were good to go and Stephan deciding to play them because he wanted to get as many points on the board as possible? |  | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:28 - May 8 with 1373 views | Hunterhoop |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 15:39 - May 8 by kensalriser |
Time to stop the 'cycling Ben' business.
If someone has a Phd in sports science and is good at what they do, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to move from one competence to another within the same general discipline and learn the ropes rapidly. People change jobs like this all the time. It's not like asking an accountant to become a surgeon.
In other words, if he's not doing a good job it has nothing to do with what he did previously, it's because he's fundamentally not competent. |
This is true.
However, it’s worth noting that when he joined he did say how he planned to bring across practices from the cycling world and alluded to the football industry potentially being behind or missing tricks to improve player performance. The whole phased ramp up is a cycling approach to maximise performance the part of the year with the major tours being targeted. Clearly it is difficult to see how this translates to a sport where a win in April is worth the same as a win in August.
So some of the rhetoric relates to his approach today and what he’s implemented, not simply his background. |  | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:56 - May 8 with 1352 views | KensalT |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:28 - May 8 by Hunterhoop |
This is true.
However, it’s worth noting that when he joined he did say how he planned to bring across practices from the cycling world and alluded to the football industry potentially being behind or missing tricks to improve player performance. The whole phased ramp up is a cycling approach to maximise performance the part of the year with the major tours being targeted. Clearly it is difficult to see how this translates to a sport where a win in April is worth the same as a win in August.
So some of the rhetoric relates to his approach today and what he’s implemented, not simply his background. |
It must take quite some ego to think you can walk into an industry with zero experience and think you know it better than people who have been in it all their lives.
Paolo di Canio tried the ramping up approach at Sunderland in 2013-14. He was sacked after five games.
Several times under Mark Robins we saw Coventry make a slow start to the season and try to make up ground later. This year they flew out of the traps and stayed in front all season.
I think one of the podcasts said that this is the first time in QPR history that we have lost the last four games of the season.
There's nothing like a strong finish. [Post edited 8 May 16:57]
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| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 17:03 - May 8 with 1341 views | KensalT |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:26 - May 8 by dmm |
Could it not have been Williams (wrongly) telling Stephan they were good to go and Stephan deciding to play them because he wanted to get as many points on the board as possible? |
That might make sense in the Premier League.
In the PL each place in the table is worth an extra £3m.
In the Championship there's only about £10k per place.
Our season was over. JS had improved on last season's points total. That's good enough for a first season. No need to risk players recovering from long term injuries for the sake of three more points. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 17:10 - May 8 with 1331 views | dmm |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 17:03 - May 8 by KensalT |
That might make sense in the Premier League.
In the PL each place in the table is worth an extra £3m.
In the Championship there's only about £10k per place.
Our season was over. JS had improved on last season's points total. That's good enough for a first season. No need to risk players recovering from long term injuries for the sake of three more points. |
Yep, fair enough. You could well be right about Nourry wanting to prove their fitness. But, don't forget we finished 15th, same as last season so Stephan may well have wanted those points to climb a place or two.
Of course, I agree Madsen and Burrell should not have been put at risk but if Mr Expert tells you they're okay, you can understand why Stephan then plays them. Clearly he should have been a lot more circumspect about Williams. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 17:18 - May 8 with 1317 views | KensalT |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 17:10 - May 8 by dmm |
Yep, fair enough. You could well be right about Nourry wanting to prove their fitness. But, don't forget we finished 15th, same as last season so Stephan may well have wanted those points to climb a place or two.
Of course, I agree Madsen and Burrell should not have been put at risk but if Mr Expert tells you they're okay, you can understand why Stephan then plays them. Clearly he should have been a lot more circumspect about Williams. |
I wonder if Kone not playing the last game means we will be trying to punt him around this summer instead of Burrell.
If nothing else I suppose it shows that they might have learned something from their mistakes. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 17:22 - May 8 with 1310 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 15:39 - May 8 by kensalriser |
Time to stop the 'cycling Ben' business.
If someone has a Phd in sports science and is good at what they do, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to move from one competence to another within the same general discipline and learn the ropes rapidly. People change jobs like this all the time. It's not like asking an accountant to become a surgeon.
In other words, if he's not doing a good job it has nothing to do with what he did previously, it's because he's fundamentally not competent. |
Agreed, this is one of Trumps tactics to use a "charming" nickname whilst demeaning someone. It grinds my gears as well.
I don't remember anyone deriding when we used to go to Aldershot and try with an Army PT instructor.
I think BW might be incompetent though.
That could stem from taking on too many roles, so he loses focus of what he is good at, or being given too much responsibility. If he spoke to a DS player in the canteen as reported its outrageous behaviour and highlight a lack of training or people skills | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 17:24 - May 8 with 1305 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:26 - May 8 by dmm |
Could it not have been Williams (wrongly) telling Stephan they were good to go and Stephan deciding to play them because he wanted to get as many points on the board as possible? |
I honestly think if this was the case it would have come out via WLS
Wouldn't normally the Performance team say.
"This player can do 60'" or similar and the coach takes that under advice.
I think the performance team are monitoring the loading live during the match as well, as I'm sure I've heard before that they suggest changes when they notice things | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 17:27 - May 8 with 1297 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:28 - May 8 by Hunterhoop |
This is true.
However, it’s worth noting that when he joined he did say how he planned to bring across practices from the cycling world and alluded to the football industry potentially being behind or missing tricks to improve player performance. The whole phased ramp up is a cycling approach to maximise performance the part of the year with the major tours being targeted. Clearly it is difficult to see how this translates to a sport where a win in April is worth the same as a win in August.
So some of the rhetoric relates to his approach today and what he’s implemented, not simply his background. |
I thought this was interesting at the time, as 3 points is 3 points.
BUT, if the team you are playing are on their R's in March (like Bielsa's Leeds) and your team are reaching their peak fitness, then the game should be easier (in theory)
In practice, by March we'd lost about four key players to avoidable injuries and other players like Kolli looked like they might throw up on the pitch as their arse fell out of them, so BW might just be about theories. | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 18:48 - May 8 with 1241 views | ytt28 |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:28 - May 7 by R_from_afar |
If we do - please dear God no - buy a team in Australia, I reckon it will be just for the spare parts.
Does anyone know how long it would take DHL to get a cruciate ligament from Alice Springs to Shepherds Bush?  |
Or maybe send BW to Australia to be head of this head of that and head of the other including CEO and DoF. On second thoughts send CN out there to be CEO and DoF and BW as head of everything else. Problem solved. |  | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 20:51 - May 8 with 1180 views | kensalriser |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 16:28 - May 8 by Hunterhoop |
This is true.
However, it’s worth noting that when he joined he did say how he planned to bring across practices from the cycling world and alluded to the football industry potentially being behind or missing tricks to improve player performance. The whole phased ramp up is a cycling approach to maximise performance the part of the year with the major tours being targeted. Clearly it is difficult to see how this translates to a sport where a win in April is worth the same as a win in August.
So some of the rhetoric relates to his approach today and what he’s implemented, not simply his background. |
Fair points.
But by now it's clear his approach isn't working so we're back to the obvious conclusion that he hasn't adapted/learnt the ropes, which is fundamental competence (or lack of).
Not really surprising either. I mean, I'm worlds away from being an athlete both in age and ability, but I swim and cycle. I can swim a mile more easily than walk it, as for running, I can't do 100 yards at anything more than a light jog but put me on a bike and I've gone four or five miles before I start to feel it. | |
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| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 21:26 - May 8 with 1144 views | mart_Goblin |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 07:49 - May 8 by nix |
This is a big test for Nourry. Leadership is not always about making the right decisions 100% of the time; it’s also about admitting when you’re wrong and putting that right. It’s not worked out with Williams and he didn’t work out in his other foray outside of cycling. He needs to go.
It’s not only the injuries although those are dire enough, it’s about not being fit enough to last 90 minutes at the end of the season - players like Mbengue and Kolli being hunched over week after week well before the end of games. |
Good post this .
Because it isn’t just about the injuries , although it’s a huge factor in another mediocre season, it’s the conditioning of the whole squad . AGAIN!
I do sometimes wonder if Williams being given multiple other roles, some of which have absolutely nothing to do with anything in his ‘skill set’ is a deliberate ploy by CN to have him as the buffer .
If you notice there is the same , if not more criticism of BW than CN.
And if there is one thing that CN has tried to do since he’s been at the club, it’s avoid criticism at all costs and by any means .
Bit of a cynical view I acknowledge. But I do wonder . |  | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 06:57 - May 9 with 985 views | Rsole |
The 12 Steps of QPR Recovery
1. Leadership admitted we were powerless over our injury crisis — that our team sheet had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves — a competent Director of Football — could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our medical and recruitment departments over to said Director of Football, assuming we ever actually appoint one.
4. Made a searching and fearless physio inventory: the training pitches, the pitch at LOFTUS and the massage table held together with kinesiology tape.
5. Admitted the exact nature of our wrongs — including signing players whose medicals read like a Victorian death certificate.
6. Were entirely ready to have the panic loans, 17-year-old “project signings” and a sports science department reporting to the very man who caused the injuries removed.
7. Humbly asked the owners to replace the CEO with someone who has actual real-world experience — ideally of football, or failing that, of any functioning organisation.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed — every broken striker and every hamstring that ever pulled on a hooped shirt.
9. Made direct amends where possible, except when to do so would mean rushing them back for a frozen Tuesday night in February.
10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when a player limped out of training, promptly admitted it — rather than declaring him “in contention for the weekend.”
11. Adopted a communication strategy to tell fans which of their favourite players would actually be available and roughly when — a radical departure from the traditional “in contention for the weekend” school of misdirection.
12. Having had a sporting awakening, we tried to carry this message to the summer transfer window and practise these principles in all our affairs.
Hi, my name is QPR….and we have an injury problem. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 09:41 - May 9 with 929 views | Myke |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 14:26 - May 7 by Watford_Ranger |
We don’t seem to get many slight injuries where a player misses a game or two. Every injury felt like a massive chunk of the season missed even when the original prognosis wasn’t too bad |
That’s only because the original prognosis was a lie | | | |
| Tell me that one again about 90% availabilty on 10:09 - May 9 with 909 views | numptydumpty |
I worked for a small charity that was absolutely shockingly run.
The manager had no fall back. Paid two staff members almost double what others got. Everyone knew they were bedroom buddies shall we say. They certainly were not great at their actual jobs.
We used to have an AGM and yearly, the figures and percentages used were all in the 90% satisfactions with our services. Council members, clients family members all seemed amazed by how great we were. Staff knew the true reality, but he was an excellent presenter, way more skilled in that than Mr Beale.
I used to live in a social housing apartment and we used to get quarterly magazines sent to us and suggesting residents were 97% fully satisfied. i lived there and spoke to a lot of people there. More like 97% fully dissatisfied.
Anytime, i see figures over 90%, i smell something that has an odour of something most unpleasant.
If it was myself having to present something that i knew to be false, I would not be able to say it. And if i did, everyone would be aware that i was saying words i had no confidence in.
i was aware how questions were asked in survey questionairres and then analysed and analysed afterwards to get these 90% satisfaction answers.
I actually would not mind if we were presented with the realities of a situation and saying lessons have been learned. We are realising certain ways of treating injuries and managing recoveries and returns have not been that successful so far. We feel that we have tinkered with our way of operating and we feel confident next season, there will be a marked improvement.
They could also say we have taken a risk on some players we believe can develop and have talents that can be nurtured, but we realise our money is not everlasting and we have signed several players known in the past that have injury and fitness issues, but we feel after researching their issues, that we felt that they could be managed so much better so their long term availability is much greater than it previously has been. With some, its still a work in progress and we have made mistakes along the way, but we are confident we are heading in the right direction.
But no, we get told we have 90% availability - EVERYONE KNOWS THATS BS MISMANAGED DATA !!
No news about methods used - BECAUSE WE ARE ALL TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND !!
And no specific news about how if we have improved, how we have done it and with specific examples about certain players recoveries in the treatment room - NOT TELLING US THEIR METHODS DOESN'T MEAN OUR COMPETITORS WILL GAIN EXPERT INFORMATION ABOUT OUR SECRET NEW ADVANCED AND INNOVATIVE WAYS OF DOING THINGS.
Most of THEM are doing BETTER !!!!
Usually when you get limited information it is to cover up that you are really not exactly sure about what you are doing is right so you bluff and throw out soundbites such as this 90% data "facts"
If the club were a lot more honest about certain issues i think everyone would welcome this. If Ben Williams can say, yes we understand our track record so far has not been where we want it to be, but we have adapted plans with how training, playing style and treatment is done so that many injuries are much less likely to occur and we all know some of our players are decent but wouldnt be with us, if previously they were injury free, then all well and good.
They may well be doing this, but for me bluff as a policy to communicate gets you nowhere. All it does is create mistrust !!!!
I hope they can learn to improve on this.
When people are too sure of themselves. Thats when you start to wonder...... |  |
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