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I know that managers frequently change their formation in response to how the opposition are likely to line up, but it feels to me that we have tried a lot of different formations this season, often in a single game.
That may not be a bad thing, perhaps it's an advantage to be able to change the shape quickly, but I wondered what you all thought. Some managers, rightly or wrongly, seem to stick to one formation most of the time. Even JFH mixed it up a bit towards the end of his tenure.
RFA
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
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Our constantly changing team formation on 12:58 - Dec 7 with 2749 views
personally, i think people get far, far too worried about formations. They're important of course, but it's over-egged a bit, especially below the very top level.
Bare bones.
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Our constantly changing team formation on 13:17 - Dec 7 with 2714 views
I'm in awe of the blokes who two mins into the game can tell you we're playing 442 or 35 49 or whatever. Me, after 5 in the White Horse I have to watch closely to make sure we're fielding 11.
Our constantly changing team formation on 14:50 - Dec 7 by Boston
I'm in awe of the blokes who two mins into the game can tell you we're playing 442 or 35 49 or whatever. Me, after 5 in the White Horse I have to watch closely to make sure we're fielding 11.
[Post edited 7 Dec 2016 14:51]
I can confidently confirm that our favoured formation over the last few seasons has been 6s and 7s
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Our constantly changing team formation on 16:00 - Dec 7 with 2556 views
I'm actually a little bit worried about Holloway and this at the moment. He had it spot on in the first game, but now all this talk of wanting to play with two 10s, wanting to accomodate this and that player... I'm worried.
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Our constantly changing team formation on 16:05 - Dec 7 with 2544 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 16:00 - Dec 7 by Northernr
I'm actually a little bit worried about Holloway and this at the moment. He had it spot on in the first game, but now all this talk of wanting to play with two 10s, wanting to accomodate this and that player... I'm worried.
Permission to worry please General Norf
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Our constantly changing team formation on 16:34 - Dec 7 with 2512 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 16:00 - Dec 7 by Northernr
I'm actually a little bit worried about Holloway and this at the moment. He had it spot on in the first game, but now all this talk of wanting to play with two 10s, wanting to accomodate this and that player... I'm worried.
I think you need to expand on your worries
1) Worried he doesn't know what he's doing? 2) Worried he doesn't have a set formation? 3) Worried players are influencing formation? 4) AN Other worry? 5) All of the above?
Our constantly changing team formation on 16:34 - Dec 7 by PinnerPaul
I think you need to expand on your worries
1) Worried he doesn't know what he's doing? 2) Worried he doesn't have a set formation? 3) Worried players are influencing formation? 4) AN Other worry? 5) All of the above?
worried he's going to tie himself in knots trying to get Luongo, Chery and Sandro into the team with two strikers and Washington up front as well, and by the time he realises it's not working (probably no more than half a dozen games) the "Hollowhead must go" movement will already be in full swing.
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Our constantly changing team formation on 18:23 - Dec 7 with 2449 views
I'm worried that we may be going backwards. Having struggled to get out summer signings fit and finding our best eleven, we have now changed the plan and some of them could already be surplus to requirements.
We need a bit of luck to give confidence a boost and get the team moving in the right direction.
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Our constantly changing team formation on 18:38 - Dec 7 with 2426 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 12:58 - Dec 7 by Antti_Heinola
personally, i think people get far, far too worried about formations. They're important of course, but it's over-egged a bit, especially below the very top level.
As a rugby player (where formations are pretty much predetermined) I struggle to see the logic in a lot of football formations. And if we set up based on what we think the opposition will do, what's to stop them setting up in anticipation of what system we might play?
Surely it's better to find one, or maybe two, systems that everybody can get familiar with and stick to that. And leave oppositions to worry about adjusting to us if they feel the need to. Or maybe our trick is to change our system every week so nobody knows what we're going to do.
100% of people who drink water will die.
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Our constantly changing team formation on 19:21 - Dec 7 with 2394 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 16:36 - Dec 7 by Northernr
worried he's going to tie himself in knots trying to get Luongo, Chery and Sandro into the team with two strikers and Washington up front as well, and by the time he realises it's not working (probably no more than half a dozen games) the "Hollowhead must go" movement will already be in full swing.
Agree, but unfortunately for Ollie we are now 4 points off the relegation spots, so he doesnt have the luxury of too much experimentation, he's pretty much got to play it safe and then tweak things as he goes as a run of losses could see us bottom by new year. I cant see him doing anything other than rotating the "number 10s" and hopefully Sandra will get the Spanish archer in January to Russia or the US or Malaysia or somewhere. Still curious as to why cousins not getting the nod - not the finished product? looked great at charlton, seems to fit the bill of the "run all day" MF..?
Our constantly changing team formation on 16:36 - Dec 7 by Northernr
worried he's going to tie himself in knots trying to get Luongo, Chery and Sandro into the team with two strikers and Washington up front as well, and by the time he realises it's not working (probably no more than half a dozen games) the "Hollowhead must go" movement will already be in full swing.
Let's be honest, it'll come even if he won the Champions League and arranged to have John Terry kicked in the balls by everyone in the stadium.
Faultless managers don't exist, and when they do they don't come to QPR.
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Our constantly changing team formation on 23:57 - Dec 7 with 2251 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 16:00 - Dec 7 by Northernr
I'm actually a little bit worried about Holloway and this at the moment. He had it spot on in the first game, but now all this talk of wanting to play with two 10s, wanting to accomodate this and that player... I'm worried.
Just what i was thinking. Frankly, i'm astounded by almost everything Ian Holloway comes out with. Whilst i, as a Rangers fan, obviously like him personally, he comes across as the least appropriate manager going. Setting himself up for a major fall i fear. If i'd never seen or heard of him before, i'd be wondering what in God's name we've done. To say i've never heard anything like it is a massive understatement.
We all know he's an open, heart on the sleeve kind of fella, but surely some cards are better held close to the chest? And i can't help but wonder, will half of the squad simply think we've got a weirdo in charge? Players don't tend to like all their dirty washing done in public and they've got Holloway given a running commentary on them constantly. Will those french lads respond to being told they don't run enough in public, or will they simply think fcuk this for a game of soldiers? The french are not well known for fighting spirit in adversity after all. I'd prefer our manager to say a whole lot less.
Fingers crossed we can get some momentum going, or this could seriously go tits up.
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Our constantly changing team formation on 00:24 - Dec 8 with 2235 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 23:57 - Dec 7 by timcocking
Just what i was thinking. Frankly, i'm astounded by almost everything Ian Holloway comes out with. Whilst i, as a Rangers fan, obviously like him personally, he comes across as the least appropriate manager going. Setting himself up for a major fall i fear. If i'd never seen or heard of him before, i'd be wondering what in God's name we've done. To say i've never heard anything like it is a massive understatement.
We all know he's an open, heart on the sleeve kind of fella, but surely some cards are better held close to the chest? And i can't help but wonder, will half of the squad simply think we've got a weirdo in charge? Players don't tend to like all their dirty washing done in public and they've got Holloway given a running commentary on them constantly. Will those french lads respond to being told they don't run enough in public, or will they simply think fcuk this for a game of soldiers? The french are not well known for fighting spirit in adversity after all. I'd prefer our manager to say a whole lot less.
Fingers crossed we can get some momentum going, or this could seriously go tits up.
"Will those french lads respond to being told they don't run enough in public, or will they simply think fcuk this for a game of soldiers? The french are not well known for fighting spirit in adversity after all."
Our constantly changing team formation on 20:29 - Dec 7 by BazzaInTheLoft
Holloway has been quite consistent so far with his system, but the actual match events seem to interfere with them.
[Post edited 7 Dec 2016 20:38]
I don't think he has tbh Baz. Norwich was 3 at the back, 2 cms, Chery behind a front two of Wash and BFG. Ipswich changed to play Wash and Chery as inside forwards on the left and right respectively. Now against Wolves Hall started as a CDM and we played 4 at the back. It is all a bit frustrating really having seen us do so well against Norwich. Quit tinkering, get Sandro in the sea, let Luongo play as a box to box rather than try make him another 10. Simple stuff
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Our constantly changing team formation on 09:09 - Dec 8 with 2151 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 08:30 - Dec 8 by RBlock
I don't think he has tbh Baz. Norwich was 3 at the back, 2 cms, Chery behind a front two of Wash and BFG. Ipswich changed to play Wash and Chery as inside forwards on the left and right respectively. Now against Wolves Hall started as a CDM and we played 4 at the back. It is all a bit frustrating really having seen us do so well against Norwich. Quit tinkering, get Sandro in the sea, let Luongo play as a box to box rather than try make him another 10. Simple stuff
It's quite similar though.
He's blurred the roles of Chery and Hall but I can see a consistent shape. 3 CBS & 3 CMs. Sort of.....
Anyway, about getting Sandro in the sea, I recommend a BA Baracus type ploy.
'I ain't getting in no boat fool!'
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Our constantly changing team formation on 10:38 - Dec 8 with 2103 views
This happens whenever a new manager comes in, they try several formations and different players till they settle on something and as soon as they settle on one formation they get slated for being inflexible.
Saying that I do feel a little nervous seeing Hall in midfield and Luongo being described as a number 10
[Post edited 8 Dec 2016 10:39]
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Our constantly changing team formation on 10:47 - Dec 8 with 2091 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 10:38 - Dec 8 by daveB
This happens whenever a new manager comes in, they try several formations and different players till they settle on something and as soon as they settle on one formation they get slated for being inflexible.
Saying that I do feel a little nervous seeing Hall in midfield and Luongo being described as a number 10
[Post edited 8 Dec 2016 10:39]
Hall in midfield is simply Ollie channelling the ghost of Steve Palmer.
Or George Santos.
Anyway, I think there is a decent side in there somewhere.
'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'
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Our constantly changing team formation on 10:54 - Dec 8 with 2082 views
Our constantly changing team formation on 23:57 - Dec 7 by timcocking
Just what i was thinking. Frankly, i'm astounded by almost everything Ian Holloway comes out with. Whilst i, as a Rangers fan, obviously like him personally, he comes across as the least appropriate manager going. Setting himself up for a major fall i fear. If i'd never seen or heard of him before, i'd be wondering what in God's name we've done. To say i've never heard anything like it is a massive understatement.
We all know he's an open, heart on the sleeve kind of fella, but surely some cards are better held close to the chest? And i can't help but wonder, will half of the squad simply think we've got a weirdo in charge? Players don't tend to like all their dirty washing done in public and they've got Holloway given a running commentary on them constantly. Will those french lads respond to being told they don't run enough in public, or will they simply think fcuk this for a game of soldiers? The french are not well known for fighting spirit in adversity after all. I'd prefer our manager to say a whole lot less.
Fingers crossed we can get some momentum going, or this could seriously go tits up.
Yes. I heard a story told by Glenn Murray to an acquaintance of mine. He said at Palace Olly was always desperate for players to come and tell him their problems. A few did, but he kept encouraging the others to. One day, before training he asked them again, and said: 'you know, [player] came with his marriage issue... [player] came with his drink problem' - naming the players and their private issue in front of everyone! Apparently Murray said he lost the players (understandably) at that point. No idea if it's true, but the source was reliable - it's just how much Murray was exaggerating / not being truthful.
Bare bones.
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Our constantly changing team formation on 11:41 - Dec 8 with 2058 views
Looking at our summer transfer activity it is clear that we acquired a squad for iterations of 4231. We had 4 midfielders in first team reckoning (although now 5 with Sandro in from the cold), 4 centrebacks, two target men, and a load of attacking midfielders. CW was the option to change it to two up top if and when needed during games although he forced himself into the team with his hardwork. That was the plan. Jimmy played it quite defensively - more 4411 than 4213.
Under Olly we did play 3 at the back. But only for 2 minutes! Otherwise Grant Hall has been in midfield. The problem with his 4222 (or even the 352 if we see it again) is that it doesn't suit Wszolek who has looked very promising as an out and out right winger in the glimpses we've seen, or Yeni who was our big summer target and is only just now becoming available. I don't think it suits Luongo to have to come out to the left, or Chery to go out to the right. There is also a very worrying sense that the non-english speakers are being sidelined.
I disagree with Olly that we have too many number 10s. We only have one - Chery. Luongo is more effective in midfield, good player that he is, he doesn't carry the ball well enough at speed, shoot well enough, or have the guile to be a 10. Maybe Olly means Gladwin and ELK, but their form certainly doesn't suggest they should be central to team shape. I also worry that Mackie's return to fitness will confuse the issue further.
Who are our best players? What is our best team? What's the best shape for them? This is what Olly's working out, and we are too.
I cannot see how the answer is something possession-based and narrow. We don't have the wingbacks for it. You need 4 because it's so physically demanding - like Rose / Davies + Walker / Trippier. But we only have Robinson who looks like that kind of player and he has hamstring (and other) issues. And I don't think we have the pure invention and quality and intelligence of movement in the middle either.
So Olly, our squad is all set up for 4231. This is the way to get our best 11 players on the pitch. The key is getting it to work in an attacking sense - that's where Jimmy failed.
FWIW with this squad I'd tweak the Warnock formation which had 5 players behind the ball at any one time: 2 centrebacks, 1 fullback and 2 midfielders, and 5 players attacking (one of which was Walker / Orr) around HH as a target man / someone to defend from the front: Polter / Sylla as HH. Chery should be deeper with more responsibility than Adel, playing more as a midfielder on the half turn. Wszolek and Ngbakoto need license to get beyond Sylla / Polter (Les said this is what he wanted when he signed them), like Mackie / Routledge. Robinson as our Walker, allowed to get forward and overlap as Yeni goes inside... ...but the right back (Perch or Onuoha at a pinch) playing like clint hill, ie staying back. Luongo like Faurlin, creating angles and linking it together but also winning the ball (replaced by Cousins when we need more legs). Borysiuk like Derry sweeping it up and laying it off.
This gives us defensive solidity, sufficient numbers in midfield, width and people in the box.
TLDNR
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Our constantly changing team formation on 11:47 - Dec 8 with 2052 views
When Mourinho was first manager down the road (and actually good at his job, tho it pains me to say it), he kept it simple - he stated he wanted a squad of 23 not 25. 3 keepers, then 2 quality players for every position in his favoured formation. You may even remember that team was (grits teeth) quite attractive. It was in effect 433 every week and he didn't divert from it...eg Drogba centre of the front three, Joe Cole / Duff / Robben alternating alongside him.
However you don't need the luxury of ill-gotten Russian billions to both preach and practise such consistency. Warnock did it for us in the promotion season. 4231 every week. The much sought after round pegs in round holes. Heidar injured? Hulse in. Mackie injured? Routledge in - a very different skill set but asked to play the same role. Orr injured? Walker loaned in. Gorkks and Connolly having an iffy spell? Replace with Shittu & Hall. I even remember Hogan doing a half decent Adel impression away at Donny (and scoring the winner).
Difference was, Warnock had a few months to look at the squad, a summer with sensible people in the boardroom to sort a strategy and sign accordingly, then got off to a great start that meant his job wasn't at risk whenever we lost a game (JFH fell down on the last bit).
As long as we chop & change managers with such regularity, this will be a problem. I can see Olly's headache, as I too look at the squad we've assembled, see real potential in it, but am frequently scratching my head as to how to get the best from it. Having said that, he's being paid handsomely to sort that conundrum. Hoping to see some evidence on Sat, against a dream opponent for this situation, that he's made some progress...and that we keep 11 on the pitch for more than 40 minutes so we can try it out.
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