| Season over for EFL on 10:49 - May 11 with 2401 views | Hooparoo |
| Season over for EFL on 10:33 - May 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
"In my opinion, the only way to move on is for herd immunity"
Not good news with regards to herd immunity, Gloucs.
"A very optimistic figure of 60 per cent has been suggested as being the threshold for herd immunity against Covid-19, but this is not backed up by reproducible research findings. Estimates of 5-15 per cent of the population being infected are a long way off those required for herd immunity.
An effective vaccine is the safest and most effective means of generating herd immunity and is potentially the best medical intervention against Covid-19. More than 70 candidate Covid-19 vaccines are in development; seven of these have started the first of three phases of clinical testing. The University of Oxford Vaccine Group have predicted that they may a have a vaccine tested and ready for use in six months, but most scientists estimate it will take 12-18 months.
In order to achieve herd immunity, the entire population, including children, would have to be vaccinated. Therefore, vaccine manufacturers will have to satisfy regulatory agencies that the vaccine is not only effective but has passed stringent safety testing before it is licensed for widespread use."
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/herd-immunity-in-ireland-is-almost-impossible |
Forget about a vaccine. We don’t even have a cure for the common cold which also happens to be a Corona virus. |  |
|  |
| Season over for EFL on 11:14 - May 11 with 2350 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Well some colds are caused by a type of coronavirus. Most are caused by rhinovirus.
Most articles I read seem confident of a vaccine purely because of the unprecedented worldwide efforts to do so. Let's hope so. Either way it'll be a long time, it seems. |  |
| |
| Season over for EFL on 11:59 - May 11 with 2301 views | Gloucs_R |
| Season over for EFL on 11:14 - May 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
Well some colds are caused by a type of coronavirus. Most are caused by rhinovirus.
Most articles I read seem confident of a vaccine purely because of the unprecedented worldwide efforts to do so. Let's hope so. Either way it'll be a long time, it seems. |
I think the press list sight of the fact that most people have very mild symptoms. The virus isn't a killer for the majority people.
We can't hide away for 12/18 months.
Sorry, hijacked this thread a little bit.... Back to football ðŸ˜
It's very low risk.... |  |
| |
| Season over for EFL on 12:25 - May 11 with 2281 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Season over for EFL on 11:59 - May 11 by Gloucs_R |
I think the press list sight of the fact that most people have very mild symptoms. The virus isn't a killer for the majority people.
We can't hide away for 12/18 months.
Sorry, hijacked this thread a little bit.... Back to football ðŸ˜
It's very low risk.... |
I know we're off-topic, Gloucs, but this is important.
If only 5-15% of the population have it or have had it, and we need 60-85% to have it or be vaccinated if we are to acquire herd immunity then herd immunity is just not an option.
Not pretending to be an expert, honest, but that seems to be what the article says. | |
| |
| Season over for EFL on 13:05 - May 11 with 2218 views | Gloucs_R |
| Season over for EFL on 12:25 - May 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
I know we're off-topic, Gloucs, but this is important.
If only 5-15% of the population have it or have had it, and we need 60-85% to have it or be vaccinated if we are to acquire herd immunity then herd immunity is just not an option.
Not pretending to be an expert, honest, but that seems to be what the article says. |
But the only way of catching it is to go back to normal for the majority and protect the vulnerable. It's what Sweden and others have decided to do. It's all about controlling the spread of infection, being able to manage the sick population that need care. Which is why the <1 R number is important.....nothing to do with the virus itself, more to do with managing the outcome.
Fit and healthy, professional footballers, are very very low risk. | |
| |
| Season over for EFL on 13:12 - May 11 with 2198 views | Hunterhoop |
Re. Football and sport in general, I think the govt are inching towards a “up to you if you want to be part of a crowd watching sport” type of approach. Devolve the decision to Joe Public. If you’re high risk, you won’t go; if you’re low risk or think you’ve had it, you will.
La Liga starting in June now? Bundesliga already started. Series A back training. The risk of all these legal challenges. I can see UK sport to commencing in late June/July. Football season to be complete by end of Aug. Starts again in Oct with maybe the League Cup binned to save a few games. Message to fans: up to you whether to brace it.
Not saying that it is the right approach, but I can see it. Footballers to be tested before every match. Any positives means you can’t play and self isolate. |  | | |
| Season over for EFL on 13:17 - May 11 with 2193 views | Northernr |
| Season over for EFL on 13:12 - May 11 by Hunterhoop |
Re. Football and sport in general, I think the govt are inching towards a “up to you if you want to be part of a crowd watching sport” type of approach. Devolve the decision to Joe Public. If you’re high risk, you won’t go; if you’re low risk or think you’ve had it, you will.
La Liga starting in June now? Bundesliga already started. Series A back training. The risk of all these legal challenges. I can see UK sport to commencing in late June/July. Football season to be complete by end of Aug. Starts again in Oct with maybe the League Cup binned to save a few games. Message to fans: up to you whether to brace it.
Not saying that it is the right approach, but I can see it. Footballers to be tested before every match. Any positives means you can’t play and self isolate. |
Can't see it with crowds until 2021. If they did it like that, 'up to you', I'd be amazed. PPL are fcking idiots anyway but especially when it comes to football.
I've abided by this bloody lockdown to the letter. One early morning run before most people are up, locked down with one other person, haven't seen friends, relatives etc. One trip to the supermarket a fortnight. No public transport, working from home. The whole works. If QPR said they had a game on Saturday and I could go I'd get on the tube and I'd be there, no question. |  | | |
| Season over for EFL on 14:02 - May 11 with 2094 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Season over for EFL on 13:05 - May 11 by Gloucs_R |
But the only way of catching it is to go back to normal for the majority and protect the vulnerable. It's what Sweden and others have decided to do. It's all about controlling the spread of infection, being able to manage the sick population that need care. Which is why the <1 R number is important.....nothing to do with the virus itself, more to do with managing the outcome.
Fit and healthy, professional footballers, are very very low risk. |
I accept that, but just that a Nation acquiring herd immunity appears to be impossible. What you're talking about is letting everybody catch the virus. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Season over for EFL on 14:29 - May 11 with 2039 views | Hunterhoop |
| Season over for EFL on 13:17 - May 11 by Northernr |
Can't see it with crowds until 2021. If they did it like that, 'up to you', I'd be amazed. PPL are fcking idiots anyway but especially when it comes to football.
I've abided by this bloody lockdown to the letter. One early morning run before most people are up, locked down with one other person, haven't seen friends, relatives etc. One trip to the supermarket a fortnight. No public transport, working from home. The whole works. If QPR said they had a game on Saturday and I could go I'd get on the tube and I'd be there, no question. |
It's just my opinion, Clive, but I think yesterday's announcement and the subsequent phasing is the beginning of the path to devolving responsibility for this pandemic to Joe Public.
Then you add in the financial and legal ramifications of not getting sport underway, not finishing leagues, contracts, sponsorship deals, cost of players/furlough, etc, etc...I just think it is being set up as a way out.
Look at it another way, no crowds because you can't stay 2m apart in crowds, yes?
The tube, you can't.
Most pavements, you can't.
If they open pubs and restaurants, you won't be able to there....
Most hi-rise offices, you can't, especially not in getting to your floor via the lift.
The UK, London especially, is simply not set up for social distancing.
If the tube is packed, how can the govt resist the football lobby saying "hold on, the tube is more tightly packed than our stands"? There will be libel cases all over the place.
I just think it is set up for, "go if you want, but on your head be it...our advice is that no at risk category people should attend". Sorts everything except for the potential impact on the R0, but then the govt are going for herd immunity by stealth anyway...
There other angle is the most recent announcement sets in motion a societal situation that I think is untested before. Asking the blue collar demographic to all go back to work, putting themselves at higher risk of contracting the virus, but with no football or pubs open? It's never happened before. Pubs/Bars stayed open in the war and during Spanish Flu. And a lot of that demographic were away fighting anyway during the wars.
I'm not sure how long people, especially that demographic, will be willing to put up with them having to schleck it into work on the tube, work on a busy construction site, railway line, etc, all week, putting their health on the line (as social distancing will be impossible), but "multi-millionaire footballers" don't have to play a couple of 90 minute football matches a week? I think they'll be a backlash, especially with no pubs. The equations of "what are govt asking of workers vs what are they asking of footballers" and "what are the govt asking of workers vs what are the govt giving them in return" don't work out as fair. I don't think it'll be too long before pressure starts mounting. Footballers cannot work from home. It is a job. They are "professionals" not amateurs. They are certainly paid as such. Based on last night's announcement, by the letter of what was said for "professionals", they should be back working.
I think the return I outlined could happen. Once football returns, crows will be back pronto because they'll know where the matches are being played and gather anyway. The police won't have the manpower to disperse.
If there is a second wave leading to another lockdown, all bets are off. But if they ask workers who cannot work from home to keep going to work at that point, the situation doesn't change for football either. | | | |
| Season over for EFL on 15:03 - May 11 with 1986 views | daveB |
| Season over for EFL on 13:12 - May 11 by Hunterhoop |
Re. Football and sport in general, I think the govt are inching towards a “up to you if you want to be part of a crowd watching sport” type of approach. Devolve the decision to Joe Public. If you’re high risk, you won’t go; if you’re low risk or think you’ve had it, you will.
La Liga starting in June now? Bundesliga already started. Series A back training. The risk of all these legal challenges. I can see UK sport to commencing in late June/July. Football season to be complete by end of Aug. Starts again in Oct with maybe the League Cup binned to save a few games. Message to fans: up to you whether to brace it.
Not saying that it is the right approach, but I can see it. Footballers to be tested before every match. Any positives means you can’t play and self isolate. |
I'm not one to defend the government but they haven't given any indication that going to watch live spot will be upto the individual. Been pretty clear that it will be behind closed doors if it resumes |  | | |
| Season over for EFL on 15:07 - May 11 with 1973 views | Northernr |
Just seen a headline saying rugby league gets government go-ahead to start from June 1 BCD. Particularly vulnerable to lack of Sky money and crowd money. | | | |
| Season over for EFL on 15:41 - May 11 with 1906 views | Hunterhoop |
| Season over for EFL on 15:03 - May 11 by daveB |
I'm not one to defend the government but they haven't given any indication that going to watch live spot will be upto the individual. Been pretty clear that it will be behind closed doors if it resumes |
Read my second, more detailed post. I believe they’re setting it up. They obviously said nothing directly about sport yesterday (deliberately) but that doesn’t mean they aren’t setting it up as I outlined. | | | |
| Season over for EFL on 16:23 - May 11 with 1826 views | daveB |
| Season over for EFL on 15:41 - May 11 by Hunterhoop |
Read my second, more detailed post. I believe they’re setting it up. They obviously said nothing directly about sport yesterday (deliberately) but that doesn’t mean they aren’t setting it up as I outlined. |
yeah sorry replied before I saw that one.
That is a possibility what you suggest and although I'd say it is unlikely I would have laughed at anyone suggesting the events of the last 2 months was going to happen as I celebrated on the way home from Preston so you may well be proved right mate.
I just can't see Sport having crowds this year, for that to happen you need pubs and shops back to normal dealing with crowded places with no impact on the numbers, I guess that could change if the next 2/3 months go well but can't see it myself..
Edit that just read what Boris Johnson said today crowds are a possibility in July, blimey.
[Post edited 11 May 2020 16:26]
| | | |
| Season over for EFL on 16:33 - May 11 with 1799 views | Hunterhoop |
Doesn’t surprise me after yesterday’s new, Dave. It was setting up what will be to come.
I think business (many sectors) has been lobbying the govt very hard. Additionally, I think the likes of Goldman Sachs may have told the govt they can’t print their way out of this and interest rates on loans will be going up soon...and as a result the govt have decided they need to get the economy going. The domino effect is then going to be quite quick, relatively speaking. | | | |
| Season over for EFL on 16:41 - May 11 with 1780 views | QPR_John |
| Season over for EFL on 13:05 - May 11 by Gloucs_R |
But the only way of catching it is to go back to normal for the majority and protect the vulnerable. It's what Sweden and others have decided to do. It's all about controlling the spread of infection, being able to manage the sick population that need care. Which is why the <1 R number is important.....nothing to do with the virus itself, more to do with managing the outcome.
Fit and healthy, professional footballers, are very very low risk. |
"Fit and healthy, professional footballers, are very very low risk."
Not necessary there is a school of thought that athletes might be more at risk. |  | | |
| Season over for EFL on 16:45 - May 11 with 1780 views | daveB |
| Season over for EFL on 16:33 - May 11 by Hunterhoop |
Doesn’t surprise me after yesterday’s new, Dave. It was setting up what will be to come.
I think business (many sectors) has been lobbying the govt very hard. Additionally, I think the likes of Goldman Sachs may have told the govt they can’t print their way out of this and interest rates on loans will be going up soon...and as a result the govt have decided they need to get the economy going. The domino effect is then going to be quite quick, relatively speaking. |
If, and It is a big if, they can get crowds in July that could well change League 1 and 2 calling it a day for the season, seems mad though. I'd love to go back to QPR but I'll be honest I don't think i'd go if we are back that soon. | | | |
| Season over for EFL on 16:53 - May 11 with 1742 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Season over for EFL on 16:45 - May 11 by daveB |
If, and It is a big if, they can get crowds in July that could well change League 1 and 2 calling it a day for the season, seems mad though. I'd love to go back to QPR but I'll be honest I don't think i'd go if we are back that soon. |
What happened to..... Rangers till I die 
Me bad  |  |
| |
| Season over for EFL on 16:56 - May 11 with 1739 views | daveB |
| Season over for EFL on 16:53 - May 11 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
What happened to..... Rangers till I die
Me bad |
I've always sung it as
I'm Rangers Till I Die
Unless there is a pandemic
and then I'm staying home | | | |
| Season over for EFL on 17:04 - May 11 with 1717 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Season over for EFL on 16:56 - May 11 by daveB |
I've always sung it as
I'm Rangers Till I Die
Unless there is a pandemic
and then I'm staying home |
 | |
| |
| Season over for EFL on 20:55 - May 11 with 1566 views | OldPedro |
| Season over for EFL on 21:06 - May 10 by Esox_Lucius |
You are applying a solution to a problem you perceive as only existing in the EFL & EPL; it doesn't, a large number of leagues have already had their seasons voided and the results scrubbed, including some teams who had already achieved automatic promotion. If you have one solution for one group of people in your organisation and a different solution for the other part of your organisation then you are leaving yourself wide open for legal action to be taken. |
True - but EPL and EFL are different organizations to other leagues. It is a potential issue if the EFL apply different outcomes to the Championship, League One and League Two unless they give each divisions options which the clubs vote for. |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
| |
| Season over for EFL on 23:05 - May 11 with 1398 views | DannyPaddox |
| Season over for EFL on 16:41 - May 11 by QPR_John |
"Fit and healthy, professional footballers, are very very low risk."
Not necessary there is a school of thought that athletes might be more at risk. |
Someone explained to me years back that professional athletes are often susceptible to colds and such things as even tho they are super fit they are nevertheless pushing their bodies as far as they can go putting them on a knife edge of peak fitness and vulnerability. I’m not sure of the science of this, maybe resistance is low as the metabolism is under undue stress.
I used to wonder why these Olympic athletes were always blaming their dodgy urine samples on badly labelled lemsip-type cold remedies. I suggested it was suspicious in the first place that an undue amount of athletes were taking cold remedies and then someone explained the above paradox to me. It’s something I’d like to know more about but haven’t come across any relevant info.
I wonder in the context of covid, players will be more susceptible to it but recover quicker or even be asymptomatic. Again I don’t know. I did read about a player on the continent recently who’d been tested four times over the past two months and each time he’s been positive. Which is really confusing/ worrying people. Dyabala maybe. |  | | |
| Season over for EFL on 07:44 - May 12 with 1262 views | Gloucs_R |
| Season over for EFL on 23:05 - May 11 by DannyPaddox |
Someone explained to me years back that professional athletes are often susceptible to colds and such things as even tho they are super fit they are nevertheless pushing their bodies as far as they can go putting them on a knife edge of peak fitness and vulnerability. I’m not sure of the science of this, maybe resistance is low as the metabolism is under undue stress.
I used to wonder why these Olympic athletes were always blaming their dodgy urine samples on badly labelled lemsip-type cold remedies. I suggested it was suspicious in the first place that an undue amount of athletes were taking cold remedies and then someone explained the above paradox to me. It’s something I’d like to know more about but haven’t come across any relevant info.
I wonder in the context of covid, players will be more susceptible to it but recover quicker or even be asymptomatic. Again I don’t know. I did read about a player on the continent recently who’d been tested four times over the past two months and each time he’s been positive. Which is really confusing/ worrying people. Dyabala maybe. |
Catching it... Maybe..... Dying...... Very unlikely.
Professional athletes do not fit the vulnerable category. | |
| |
| Season over for EFL on 08:36 - May 12 with 1202 views | DannyPaddox |
| Season over for EFL on 07:44 - May 12 by Gloucs_R |
Catching it... Maybe..... Dying...... Very unlikely.
Professional athletes do not fit the vulnerable category. |
I spoke only of kicking balls not buckets. Football players catching it and not dying would still be highly problematical. | | | |
| Season over for EFL on 10:13 - May 12 with 1100 views | TGRRRSSS |
Hunterhoop
You've raised some brilliant thoughts, ideas etc in the last couple of posts on this thread.
My own opinion is that once furlough starts going down (extending longer they say but for less money) this means surely that extra 20% will hit people very hard and with many of their other costs (bar perhaps driving a car or transport costs) similar or maybe more meaning people will be stuck at home, less money more deprivation, less of the usual entertainments etc... tinderbox potentially - especially in some areas.
Similarly printing money doesn't solve the problem surely?
I think your Joe Public view is not far off it, but I noticed after the Sunday announcement, just a brief look at my facebook feed a form of Stockholm Syndrome seems to be creeping in, as if people think they shouldn't do anything or go anywhere until the Vaccine (magic cure?) or eradication of the disease is here.
I don't think we can stop till one of those two ways satisfies the criteria, as such small ways of getting people "used" to normal life again might be the only way.
For example my local golf course (though I am no golfer myself) is opening up tomorrow, albeit it outdoors only.
I think the speech the other night wasn't very good but I think the Hermit type existence seemingly wanted by many after just a few weeks means the longer it goes on the harder it will be for people to try and get back to "normal life".
I also feel the media have played this to the nth degree of the apocalypse is here - nothing will be as it was again end of the world agenda - and with nothing else to do people have sat and "gorged" on it.
The simple assumption "a vaccine is the only way" might be too late for everybody - eventually food would run out, and things that are required to be done to keep society (such as it is) going would eventually crumble.
Less and less people would be able to work and eventually....
The real answer lies in antibody tests and finding out more about how immune one is, or if - to a degree we might have to accept it's out there, like so many other illnesses and viruses. [Post edited 12 May 2020 10:19]
|  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
