Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Centre midfield 19:03 - Dec 2 with 2509 viewsstevec

Noticed that when the much maligned Geoff Cameron doesn’t play, we lose.

Stats this season when our centre mids start games;
Cameron - 17 points from 12 games
Carroll - 11 points from 11 games
Ball - a startling low 5 points from 8 games

Conversely to Cameron’s record of us losing every game he’s not played, of the games Carroll hasn’t started we’ve avoided defeat in every one of them.

As duos, what doesn’t work is Carroll and Ball, losing every game. In fact we have a similar record when all three of them start, a single draw from three games. Cameron and Carroll as a duo, has been the most successful, 2 wins and a draw.

In short, Cameron has to be a starter. Any combination of Carroll and Ball has been disastrous.

It’s worrying that centre mid is being carried by a player who’d probably admit he’s way past his best days. Shocking that MW didn’t attempt to sort this pre season.

If we are going to get the best out of the younger players it’s essential the club find an experienced centre midfield that can control games.
3
Centre midfield on 19:27 - Dec 2 with 2447 viewsMedwayR

I think you’re reading far too much into stats.

Poll: Who’s better?

2
Centre midfield on 19:28 - Dec 2 with 2448 viewsNed_Kennedys

I think Cameron has been one of our consistently best players this season. We've certainly missed him over the last few games.
2
Centre midfield on 21:20 - Dec 2 with 2292 viewsLazyFan

Centre midfield on 19:28 - Dec 2 by Ned_Kennedys

I think Cameron has been one of our consistently best players this season. We've certainly missed him over the last few games.


Do you mean against some of the top teams in the league?
Especially one that routinely roasts us? Mere coincidence I am sure.

zzzzzzzzzz

0
Centre midfield on 21:26 - Dec 2 with 2282 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Cameron is a useful head in a team of inexperienced youngsters which is why his inclusion is justified but I think if we start to build our Covid compacted 50 game season round a 37 year old then we are in trouble.
[Post edited 2 Dec 2020 21:27]
2
Centre midfield on 21:46 - Dec 2 with 2243 viewsTacticalR

Cameron does have the ability to make a decisive pass. He made the pass that got BOS away that led to the second goal against Rotherham. Having said that he also goes in for the occasional wild miskick and bad tackle.

I hope I am wrong, but I have a feeling there is something sterile about Carroll. He joins the attack, but we already have players like Chair and Willock who like pinging the ball around. A lot of his passes are one-twos that don't really get us anywhere, although we do keep possession. His flighted balls over the top look good, but I wonder how many are going to lead to goals.
[Post edited 2 Dec 2020 22:07]

Air hostess clique

2
Centre midfield on 22:48 - Dec 2 with 2167 viewsBrianMcCarthy

I thought Carroll was our best player last night.
I couldn't fathom him being played at 11, and I'm not sure he's a 10 either.
But him in centre-mid beside a strong 'un works for us, I think.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll: Player of the Year (so far)

5
Centre midfield on 22:51 - Dec 2 with 2160 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Centre midfield on 22:48 - Dec 2 by BrianMcCarthy

I thought Carroll was our best player last night.
I couldn't fathom him being played at 11, and I'm not sure he's a 10 either.
But him in centre-mid beside a strong 'un works for us, I think.


I agree.

He dipped some lovely balls into the box. I think he’s coming into his own.

Problem is he needs a Cameron or a Ball next to him and we can’t always afford that. Little bit of a luxury player in that regard unlike say Faurlin who had both aspects of the game to him and could play with a training cone in centre of midfield.
[Post edited 2 Dec 2020 22:53]
0
Centre midfield on 23:20 - Dec 2 with 2113 viewstimcocking

Stats in football mean almost nothing. Certainly those kind of stats.

Are any of them even an improvement on Josh Scowen? He did the same job as two of our players nowadays.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2020 0:57]
0
Login to get fewer ads

Centre midfield on 23:52 - Dec 2 with 2093 viewsrsonist

Centre midfield on 22:51 - Dec 2 by BazzaInTheLoft

I agree.

He dipped some lovely balls into the box. I think he’s coming into his own.

Problem is he needs a Cameron or a Ball next to him and we can’t always afford that. Little bit of a luxury player in that regard unlike say Faurlin who had both aspects of the game to him and could play with a training cone in centre of midfield.
[Post edited 2 Dec 2020 22:53]


I'd say having Cameron and Ball both on doing the same job to middling effect is something we can afford far less than Carroll, as luxuries go.
1
Centre midfield on 00:12 - Dec 3 with 2068 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Centre midfield on 23:52 - Dec 2 by rsonist

I'd say having Cameron and Ball both on doing the same job to middling effect is something we can afford far less than Carroll, as luxuries go.


I’d rather have Cameron and Ball (especially with Chair ahead of them) than Amos and Carroll though, but yeah I take your point. That’s a very stiff and immobile midfield.
0
Centre midfield on 00:21 - Dec 3 with 2060 viewsozexile

I Like Carroll and technically he's great. However....he offers zero goal threat, can't put his foot in and isn't a box to box midfielder. So that just leaves you with what he does, sideways passing and offering an outlet.
1
Centre midfield on 00:54 - Dec 3 with 2043 viewsMyke

Centre midfield on 00:21 - Dec 3 by ozexile

I Like Carroll and technically he's great. However....he offers zero goal threat, can't put his foot in and isn't a box to box midfielder. So that just leaves you with what he does, sideways passing and offering an outlet.


To be fair to Carroll he does a lot more than side-ways passing. H e is the one providing the probing passes forward. Carroll as has been demonstrated is not the issue, but to find an effective enforcer beside him. Nobody asked Adel to tackle that was Derry's job. I like Ball and or Cameron. Trouble is, it takes both of them to do an effective defensive job that either should be able to do alone. So play both and you shore up the mid-field but lose your creativity, play one and you create more, but leave us more exposed. If we had a really dominant CB (Dickie is tall, but not 'dominant'), that wouldn't matter as much, but we haven't. Like most things, you don't miss something until it's gone and think Warburton is really unfortunate to have lost Amos's energy and drive for the season.
3
Centre midfield on 01:03 - Dec 3 with 2029 viewstimcocking

Centre midfield on 00:12 - Dec 3 by BazzaInTheLoft

I’d rather have Cameron and Ball (especially with Chair ahead of them) than Amos and Carroll though, but yeah I take your point. That’s a very stiff and immobile midfield.


I thought Luke Amos was doing a really effective job before he got injured.

Not saying i would have been playing him where he was being played, but he was our most effective at breaking up the opposition play by some distance as far as i could tell.
2
Centre midfield on 08:17 - Dec 3 with 1918 viewstoboboly

We need to be developing/scouting a younger Cameron/Derry to kick this team up the arse when needed.

Sexy Asian dwarves wanted.

2
Centre midfield on 08:42 - Dec 3 with 1871 viewsHastings_Hoops

I have absolutely no intention of starting an anti-Dominator 🤢 movement, but I have noticed over the last two games how Ball likes to put his foot through even the shortest of passes - like he’s constantly hitting a 30 yard pile driver.

He is a very important player for us long term in this division, but I do think he needs to take a chill pill when he’s in possession at times.

That said, it’s easy to forget that he’s not actually very old and is undoubtedly still developing his game.
2
Centre midfield on 09:26 - Dec 3 with 1816 viewsdm97

The CM problem goes way back, long before MW. It feels like every manager since our 13/14 season has struggled to find CMs who can play as a dynamic 2 while providing the defence adequate protection.

From memory:
Grant Hall stepping out to CDM, being our Lord and Saviour one season
The Scowen-Luongo-Freeman combo that only worked as a three
Mass playing the defensive 10 role under Ramsey with Henry/Tozser/Faurlin etc in the 2

Cameron doing a stirling job IMO for a has-been, but our reliance on him as a big s*** in front of our defence is nothing new
[Post edited 3 Dec 2020 9:26]
2
Centre midfield on 12:57 - Dec 4 with 1563 viewsQPR_Nippon

No debate from me that CM is in need of strengthening but the stats in the OP are highly misleading.

Firstly, the sample size for Cameron not starting is small (3 games) and includes 1 game (Barnsley) where we were down to 10 men for over an hour, when all Barnsley’s goals were scored, and should really be excluded from any fair comparison.

The other 2 matches were 2 of only 4 matches so far this season played against teams in the top 6. Not only that, but if you look at the xG stats which are arguably a more reliable indicator of the performance of the team than the final scoreline, we came out on top in both matches.

There are also many other variables too. Statistically we have been doing much better when playing with 2 wingers and Chair playing centrally than we have when Carroll’s pushed up and Chair has been stuck on the left.

Personally I think we should persist with Carroll and one other in CM, and if pushed I’d go with Ball.
0
Centre midfield on 13:13 - Dec 4 with 1537 viewsgolborne

Centre midfield on 00:21 - Dec 3 by ozexile

I Like Carroll and technically he's great. However....he offers zero goal threat, can't put his foot in and isn't a box to box midfielder. So that just leaves you with what he does, sideways passing and offering an outlet.


Yep, that's his role. 3 in front to score, one beside to put a foot in. We need that balance cos whilst some of Carrolls passing is erratic (he has a better brain than feet) neither Cameron, or Ball can see, or execute a pass for toffee. You need somebody in there recycling when you play a passing game. Surely Bettache has to start getting a few trips off the bench soon, probably gonna need him ready for the Xmas period, as we have been incredibly lucky with injuries. Amos long term and then a couple of players have missed a couple of matches.
MW did say that there isn't a huge amount of time to do fitness between games by the time they have a day off and then travel the day before a match. Mostly, they've been working on technical as a) it's needed and b) the players are already shagged. However, I wonder if that's why we're fading in games. Double edge sword really and looking at our injury record they may well be getting it right. Who knows, but please don't let this be the start of bashing MW about fitness. There is enough negativity for no reason..
0
Centre midfield on 14:15 - Dec 4 with 1468 viewsderbyhoop

Cameron is, still , essential to the way we are trying to play. Not exactly mobile but a big, experienced presence.
Sure, he's not going to go on forever. Therefore, it's a position where we need to replace with someone similar but younger.

You play Cameron AND Ball, if you are expecting to defend far more than you attack.

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain) Find me on twitter @derbyhoop

0
Centre midfield on 16:53 - Dec 4 with 1371 viewsbakerloo8

I think Tom Caroll has been far better this season than he was in his first spell with us. Think hes playing pretty well.
I do think that Ilias Chair could and should do his role in CM though, he is sharper and a better passer imo.

We do need a top enforcer alongside a LTC/Chair player mind, as Cameron cant go on for ever. Nzonzi who I think we were in for a few years ago would've been perfect, but where do we get someone like him for wages we can afford?
Answers on a postcard please.
0
Centre midfield on 17:23 - Dec 4 with 1341 viewsdistortR

Centre midfield on 16:53 - Dec 4 by bakerloo8

I think Tom Caroll has been far better this season than he was in his first spell with us. Think hes playing pretty well.
I do think that Ilias Chair could and should do his role in CM though, he is sharper and a better passer imo.

We do need a top enforcer alongside a LTC/Chair player mind, as Cameron cant go on for ever. Nzonzi who I think we were in for a few years ago would've been perfect, but where do we get someone like him for wages we can afford?
Answers on a postcard please.


agree - I'd happily see Chair play the Carroll role, but have been pleasantly surprised by Carroll's input into the team.
I still don't think he was the midfield signing we needed though, but i don't know if what we need was available - a mobile enforcer who can pass the ball, even simply.
0
Centre midfield on 23:52 - Dec 4 with 1183 viewsMyke

Centre midfield on 17:23 - Dec 4 by distortR

agree - I'd happily see Chair play the Carroll role, but have been pleasantly surprised by Carroll's input into the team.
I still don't think he was the midfield signing we needed though, but i don't know if what we need was available - a mobile enforcer who can pass the ball, even simply.


Play Chair there you lose his goal threat
0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2024