| Well Done Australia 21:47 - Jan 5 with 40322 views | DWQPR |
Cancelling the visa for the arrogant anti-Vaxer Djorkovic. Never liked the bloke. Let’s hope other countries follow suit. |  |
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| Not good on 11:41 - Jan 6 with 2512 views | wood_hoop |
| Not good on 22:23 - Jan 5 by superhoopdownunder |
This is not well done.
Australia is run by a bunch of incompetent, corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.
We are not even allowed to leave the country or go to different states at the moment.
Novak Djokovic is not the problem here - it is the politicians and bureaucrats making the decisions - nothing is based on common sense but all on political point scoring.
It is a shadow of the country I emigrated to 24 years ago. |
Is Australia any different to many countries around the world, us in the UK not excluded.
They have not handled this at all well, vote winning is more important than the health both mentally and physiclly, as long as those at the top retain their riches fcuk everyone else.
The likes of Johnson and Trump should not be allowed anywhere near public office, imo they are criminals and should be jailed.
Judging by this malarky looks like the Aussie PM is following a similar route.
But maybe that's the best on offer and I have got it all wrong. |  | | |
| Not good on 11:54 - Jan 6 with 2472 views | WatfordR |
| Not good on 11:41 - Jan 6 by wood_hoop |
Is Australia any different to many countries around the world, us in the UK not excluded.
They have not handled this at all well, vote winning is more important than the health both mentally and physiclly, as long as those at the top retain their riches fcuk everyone else.
The likes of Johnson and Trump should not be allowed anywhere near public office, imo they are criminals and should be jailed.
Judging by this malarky looks like the Aussie PM is following a similar route.
But maybe that's the best on offer and I have got it all wrong. |
Not sure if this has been discussed on the forum before, apologies if it has, but I'd strongly recommend watching "Don't Look Up" on Netflix.
It's more of a commentary on the global warming issue, but watch it and ask yourself if the political response to the crisis in the film would have been very much different to that of our government to the early days of Covid.
My personal view is that everything done by our government during the pandemic has been prioritised by political loss or gain assessments, and we'd be kidding ourselves to think any different. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 12:06 - Jan 6 with 2439 views | WatfordR |
And from the BBC, quite timely, and a clue to why vaccinations haven't been made mandatory in many places...
Italy: the government has announced compulsory Covid jabs for those aged over 50.
Italy's Prime Minister Mario Draghi says the rule is needed to ease pressure on hospitals and slow infections - which rose to a record high of almost 190,000 on Wednesday.
Italy is one of the first European countries to introduce such a mandate on a certain age group - and the move has already sparked a fierce backlash.
Under the new rules:
Over-50s must be jabbed or face fines
The measure is in place immediately and will run until 15 June
And from 15 February, those over 50 who work must show a health pass - proving they're vaccinated or recently recovered - or be suspended from work
The announcement by Italy's government that over-50s will have to be vaccinated or face sanctions has been prompting angry reaction.
Ministers from the right-wing League have issued a statement distancing themselves from the over-50 vaccine rule, calling it “without scientific foundation, considering that the absolute majority of those hospitalised with Covid are well over 60”. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 12:07]
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| Well Done Australia on 12:40 - Jan 6 with 2360 views | Juzzie |
| Well Done Australia on 11:06 - Jan 6 by WatfordR |
Juzzie, as I said above, I've no issue with everyone being treated the same way, although on Tuesday it appeared that Djokovic's entry to Oz was a matter for the state authorities to deal with, less than two days later there's political capital to be made from it, so all of a sudden, it's about following rules and protecting people.
Malaria, as far as I know, isn't transmissible from person to person, so having a jab to go to a country where you can catch is about protecting the individual, and I suppose to an extent, about not jamming up another country's health facilities.
My question still stands though; if being Covid vaccinated is about protecting people, national health services, economies and so on, why is it not made mandatory? Is it right to say it's your choice, but if you don't have it you'll be treated like a leper? |
Good point about malaria not being transmissible but what I was trying to summarize is that the rules/plans/processes etc are there for a reason, whether to protect the individual or the masses and yes, also to protect services that may otherwise be impacted upon.
As far as being mandatory, I do agree (and I've just seen your post about Italy) it should be but we're are getting very close to the realms of 'human rights' and that will just get even harder once that can is opened up.
I could say what other things I think should be mandatory but I won't as I don't want Clive to have a meltdown!
[Post edited 6 Jan 2022 12:53]
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| Well Done Australia on 12:41 - Jan 6 with 2355 views | kensalriser |
| Well Done Australia on 09:41 - Jan 6 by stevec |
Have to say, I’m quite pleased someone as high profile as Novak is prepared to tough this out.
I’ve happily gone along with the vaccinations, the booster, it’s probably the right thing to do. That said, I’ve never in my life felt so lethargic and been so susceptible to illness as I have done in 2021.
I’m 62 years old, it can happen. If I was a 30 year old world number one in tennis, would I be questioning the possibility that maybe, just maybe, these vax might also have potential negatives that will impact my career and life? Quite possibly. |
Zero medical evidence for this. |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 12:55 - Jan 6 with 2320 views | Whip_It |
This is about the creeping lunacy of daft as batshit rules becoming everyday - Australia proudly leads the world in this with regard to lockdowns, etc. Nobody should be forced to take medical treatment, certainly not for some half-baked set of reasons (I think the latest is to reduce pressure on health services, but nobody seems to be interested in doing this when it's a political issue, e.g. let's whack up taxes). The division between vaxxers and anti-vaxxers is also completely barmy, and a consequence of the authorities' ridiculous over-reaction. If you want a vaccine, help yourself (we're all going to have to pay for it by the way), and if not, there is absolutely no case to compel you to have one. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 13:19 - Jan 6 with 2250 views | ericgen34 |
I think there is a very good reason to compel people to get vaccinated. Here in France more than 80% in covid related intensive care are non vaccinated people, the rest are mostly people weakened with other conditions like transplanted, chemo etc... people
Our local hospital is cancelling operations because of lack of ICU space, on Monday a 7 year old waiting for an important kidney transplant had her operation cancelled because there is no room.
I can't understand at all why people would take the risk of ending up in intensive care when there is a safe, very efficient vaccine available, already taken by billions of people with no bad side effects |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 13:24 - Jan 6 with 2235 views | traininvain |
| Well Done Australia on 12:55 - Jan 6 by Whip_It |
This is about the creeping lunacy of daft as batshit rules becoming everyday - Australia proudly leads the world in this with regard to lockdowns, etc. Nobody should be forced to take medical treatment, certainly not for some half-baked set of reasons (I think the latest is to reduce pressure on health services, but nobody seems to be interested in doing this when it's a political issue, e.g. let's whack up taxes). The division between vaxxers and anti-vaxxers is also completely barmy, and a consequence of the authorities' ridiculous over-reaction. If you want a vaccine, help yourself (we're all going to have to pay for it by the way), and if not, there is absolutely no case to compel you to have one. |
Djokovic hasn’t been forced to take a vaccine. It’s his choice but he also has to accept the consequences of making that choice.
Nadal’s spot on here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/59892388 [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 13:24]
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| Well Done Australia on 13:39 - Jan 6 with 2184 views | Phildo |
I know from a friend who is a nurse that her London teaching hospital has stopped putting vaccination status on the bedside notes. This was because the staff were getting so peed off at the high percentage of anti vaxxers taking up the high dependency beds with knock on effects for others. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 13:40 - Jan 6 with 2177 views | R_from_afar |
| Well Done Australia on 22:04 - Jan 5 by eghamranger |
Does come over as arrogant.
Saw some Australians being interviewed on the news, they were fuming saying ‘ one rule for them one rule for us’ and I can’t blame them.
No doubt Wimbledon will welcome him with open arms 🙄 |
"No doubt Wimbledon will welcome him with open arms".
Do you think he'll keep them up?
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| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Well Done Australia on 13:43 - Jan 6 with 2142 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Well Done Australia on 12:55 - Jan 6 by Whip_It |
This is about the creeping lunacy of daft as batshit rules becoming everyday - Australia proudly leads the world in this with regard to lockdowns, etc. Nobody should be forced to take medical treatment, certainly not for some half-baked set of reasons (I think the latest is to reduce pressure on health services, but nobody seems to be interested in doing this when it's a political issue, e.g. let's whack up taxes). The division between vaxxers and anti-vaxxers is also completely barmy, and a consequence of the authorities' ridiculous over-reaction. If you want a vaccine, help yourself (we're all going to have to pay for it by the way), and if not, there is absolutely no case to compel you to have one. |
Absolutely agree with this. Bang on. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 13:48 - Jan 6 with 2136 views | SimonJames |
| Well Done Australia on 13:19 - Jan 6 by ericgen34 |
I think there is a very good reason to compel people to get vaccinated. Here in France more than 80% in covid related intensive care are non vaccinated people, the rest are mostly people weakened with other conditions like transplanted, chemo etc... people
Our local hospital is cancelling operations because of lack of ICU space, on Monday a 7 year old waiting for an important kidney transplant had her operation cancelled because there is no room.
I can't understand at all why people would take the risk of ending up in intensive care when there is a safe, very efficient vaccine available, already taken by billions of people with no bad side effects |
I'm triple jabbed...
Currently into Day 3 of having Covid and feeling rather crap.
No way of knowing how I would be feeling if I'd never been vaxed.
But at least when my youngest son got it on Boxing Day I was still allowed go out, rather than have to isolate, because I'd had at least to jabs |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| Well Done Australia on 14:14 - Jan 6 with 2055 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Well Done Australia on 13:39 - Jan 6 by Phildo |
I know from a friend who is a nurse that her London teaching hospital has stopped putting vaccination status on the bedside notes. This was because the staff were getting so peed off at the high percentage of anti vaxxers taking up the high dependency beds with knock on effects for others. |
While opposed to the privatisation of health care, I’m very much of the view that those spouting anti-vaccination falsehoods who refuse to be jabbed, should be told in no uncertain terms that if they catch Covid, either don’t call 999 if you’re dying or, please front-up the cost of your medical care instead!
After all, if they are right and so adamant in their views about the legitimacy of the pandemic and resulting vaccines, then it shouldn’t be an issue for them. |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 14:18 - Jan 6 with 2032 views | PunteR |
FFS.
Not another bullshit thread. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Well Done Australia on 14:20 - Jan 6 with 2034 views | WatfordR |
| Well Done Australia on 14:14 - Jan 6 by PlanetHonneywood |
While opposed to the privatisation of health care, I’m very much of the view that those spouting anti-vaccination falsehoods who refuse to be jabbed, should be told in no uncertain terms that if they catch Covid, either don’t call 999 if you’re dying or, please front-up the cost of your medical care instead!
After all, if they are right and so adamant in their views about the legitimacy of the pandemic and resulting vaccines, then it shouldn’t be an issue for them. |
In that case, shouldn't we be saying the same to smokers with lung cancer, drinkers with liver failure and obese people with weight related health problems? | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 14:20 - Jan 6 with 2034 views | wood_hoop |
I am very sorry to hear of any fol kthat have been hit by this virus, hope you all recover well, no matter what your opinion on vaccines.
Maybe a way round this, those business that only want those vaccinated on their premises
or not, be allowed to put a sign up, so those that are against or for can have the choice where to spend their money.
Would be interesting to see the percentages either way, it then gives the choice which so msny seem to want.
Sporting venues the same, if no vac no entry, or just let it be a free for all, team selection the same, leave it up to the clubs to decide for their staff.
As much as we all want a democratic way of life, it can work in so many ways, the majority in the UK have decided to take the way out that scientists, doctors etc have recomended, but a minority have decided theirs is the right way, seems a bit off kilter if you ask me. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 14:27 - Jan 6 with 1995 views | WatfordR |
| Well Done Australia on 14:20 - Jan 6 by wood_hoop |
I am very sorry to hear of any fol kthat have been hit by this virus, hope you all recover well, no matter what your opinion on vaccines.
Maybe a way round this, those business that only want those vaccinated on their premises
or not, be allowed to put a sign up, so those that are against or for can have the choice where to spend their money.
Would be interesting to see the percentages either way, it then gives the choice which so msny seem to want.
Sporting venues the same, if no vac no entry, or just let it be a free for all, team selection the same, leave it up to the clubs to decide for their staff.
As much as we all want a democratic way of life, it can work in so many ways, the majority in the UK have decided to take the way out that scientists, doctors etc have recomended, but a minority have decided theirs is the right way, seems a bit off kilter if you ask me. |
No Blacks
No Dogs
No Irish
No Anti-Vaxxers | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 14:52 - Jan 6 with 1905 views | Hunterhoop |
| Well Done Australia on 12:55 - Jan 6 by Whip_It |
This is about the creeping lunacy of daft as batshit rules becoming everyday - Australia proudly leads the world in this with regard to lockdowns, etc. Nobody should be forced to take medical treatment, certainly not for some half-baked set of reasons (I think the latest is to reduce pressure on health services, but nobody seems to be interested in doing this when it's a political issue, e.g. let's whack up taxes). The division between vaxxers and anti-vaxxers is also completely barmy, and a consequence of the authorities' ridiculous over-reaction. If you want a vaccine, help yourself (we're all going to have to pay for it by the way), and if not, there is absolutely no case to compel you to have one. |
Wrong.
There is such a thing as collective responsibility in society. It’s existed since the first communities existed and has been in evidence throughout history. Blitz spirit and black out blinds, anyone?!
Vaccines have been used for decades, successfully. You’ll have had them weeks after you were born (my newborn had hers today) and as kid, for Polio, MMR, etc. Hardly anyone complained about vaccines in the 90s and before, apart from some proper loons and that money grabbing struck off doctor who went to the US to take advantage of morons using cable tv as a mouth piece. Today there is social media.
Vaccines work.
Many separate independent studies and assessments have been done of the vaccines for Covid. Why suddenly rebel against vaccines?! The risk of negative side affects has been proven to be far lower than the risks you face if you catch Covid, certainly the original, beta and delta varieties.
It is established (and being proven this very moment) that vaccines reduce the risk of serious illness. That is a good thing! It means we can go about our lives with more confidence and that we’re likely to do less harm to others. We can go to the pub, go to football. People can keep their jobs.
Everyone has a collective responsibility to have the vaccine and boosters for the good of overall society (employment, incomes, pressure on the NHS, the highly vulnerable, etc). If you don’t want one, fine, your choice. But it’s understandable if wider society considers you selfish, and it’s certainly fair that wider society (such as tennis tournaments or shops or govts) puts some restrictions on what you can do. It’s your choice; these are the consequences…JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE!
Human rights are vitally important, but they are about stopping harm to people (especially those most at risk human rights abuses, like slavery, sex trafficking, poverty, etc), not allowing people to do whatever the hell they like and sod the consequences.
Rights and Responsibilities. If you mother was highly vulnerable with a severely weakened immune system, would you still not have the vaccine and meet up regularly?
Until anyone can produce some peer reviewed quantifiable evidence that these vaccines are bad for you and worse than the risks associated with catching Covid (for the cross section of society) I struggle to accept your position. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 14:54 - Jan 6 with 1900 views | Hunterhoop |
| Well Done Australia on 13:43 - Jan 6 by The_Beast1976 |
Absolutely agree with this. Bang on. |
You’ve lost your mind, Beast. And you’ve changed so much from March 2020. You’re so far down the rabbit hole I think you’re probably lost. But, if you can take a look at yourself and come back to reality. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 14:57 - Jan 6 with 1875 views | Hunterhoop |
| Well Done Australia on 14:20 - Jan 6 by WatfordR |
In that case, shouldn't we be saying the same to smokers with lung cancer, drinkers with liver failure and obese people with weight related health problems? |
It’s not about the impact to their health; it’s about the impact to others. My boozing is not contagious to an old biddy sitting near me on the bus, or the old bloke two rows in front at the football.
It also doesn’t put me in a high dependency hospital bed that someone else might need.
Sure, the treatment takes up NHS budget, but it is not the same as you are alluding, Watford. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 15:01 - Jan 6 with 1865 views | wood_hoop |
| Well Done Australia on 14:27 - Jan 6 by WatfordR |
No Blacks
No Dogs
No Irish
No Anti-Vaxxers |
Disapointed to read your reply to my post Watford, if you feel that my opinion is wrong fair enough, but what you have put is very insulting.
I | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 15:01 - Jan 6 with 1860 views | Hunterhoop |
| Well Done Australia on 14:27 - Jan 6 by WatfordR |
No Blacks
No Dogs
No Irish
No Anti-Vaxxers |
Absolute nonsense to equate the those. You are better than that Watford!
Anti-Vaxxers, for an analogy, are closer to those who carry around knives. They may not, but intentionally or not, they might end up hurting someone (for reasons stated above). That’s why carrying a weapon is illegal. I presume you agree with that or do you agree with the gun lobby in the US. And I wouldn’t want them in my pub either. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 15:24 - Jan 6 with 1792 views | WatfordR |
| Well Done Australia on 14:52 - Jan 6 by Hunterhoop |
Wrong.
There is such a thing as collective responsibility in society. It’s existed since the first communities existed and has been in evidence throughout history. Blitz spirit and black out blinds, anyone?!
Vaccines have been used for decades, successfully. You’ll have had them weeks after you were born (my newborn had hers today) and as kid, for Polio, MMR, etc. Hardly anyone complained about vaccines in the 90s and before, apart from some proper loons and that money grabbing struck off doctor who went to the US to take advantage of morons using cable tv as a mouth piece. Today there is social media.
Vaccines work.
Many separate independent studies and assessments have been done of the vaccines for Covid. Why suddenly rebel against vaccines?! The risk of negative side affects has been proven to be far lower than the risks you face if you catch Covid, certainly the original, beta and delta varieties.
It is established (and being proven this very moment) that vaccines reduce the risk of serious illness. That is a good thing! It means we can go about our lives with more confidence and that we’re likely to do less harm to others. We can go to the pub, go to football. People can keep their jobs.
Everyone has a collective responsibility to have the vaccine and boosters for the good of overall society (employment, incomes, pressure on the NHS, the highly vulnerable, etc). If you don’t want one, fine, your choice. But it’s understandable if wider society considers you selfish, and it’s certainly fair that wider society (such as tennis tournaments or shops or govts) puts some restrictions on what you can do. It’s your choice; these are the consequences…JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE!
Human rights are vitally important, but they are about stopping harm to people (especially those most at risk human rights abuses, like slavery, sex trafficking, poverty, etc), not allowing people to do whatever the hell they like and sod the consequences.
Rights and Responsibilities. If you mother was highly vulnerable with a severely weakened immune system, would you still not have the vaccine and meet up regularly?
Until anyone can produce some peer reviewed quantifiable evidence that these vaccines are bad for you and worse than the risks associated with catching Covid (for the cross section of society) I struggle to accept your position. |
Hunter, I have enormous respect for you and what you post in general.
But collective responsibility in society is not what it was, to put it mildly. You may find it in smaller community life, rural settings and villages, but in the majority, in towns, cities, community responsibility is the exception to the rule I'd say.
See someone getting a kicking by a gang? Being harrassed for the colour, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation? How many in your community would step forward to put a stop to that?
All those people who used to stand out on the doorsteps at 8pm on a Thursday and clap their support for the NHS. How many of them were bombarding their MPs with letters of outrage when the subsequent 1% pay rise was found for NHS employees?
Collective responsibility is these days confined to the "sunlit uplands". Blue sky thinking, to paraphrase an old friend of ours.
If people are going to suffer consequences, the implication is that they have done something wrong, not that they are doing something the majority may not agree with. If we're going to accept you're only okay because you're like the majority, and the majority can punish the minority for being a minority, then we're on a really dreadful trajectory.
I see Boris talking about anti vaxxers and "calling out mumbo jumbo on social media"(...I mean, there's no need for Spitting Image anymore, is there?).
If we're given the governmental green light to "call out" anti vaxxers onine, what about calling them out face to face? What about giving them a gentle push? A slap? A good beating? I mean, Boris says it's ok.
The government could put a stop to all this nonsense by making vaccination mandatory, if it's really in the national interest. They won't, because they know it would mean a further rebellion of their backbenchers, not to mention lost votes, because of infringements to human rights. In other words, the national interest isn't as important to them as political loss.
The government are given responsibility for the collective. They should get on with exercising it. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 15:30 - Jan 6 with 1757 views | WatfordR |
| Well Done Australia on 15:01 - Jan 6 by wood_hoop |
Disapointed to read your reply to my post Watford, if you feel that my opinion is wrong fair enough, but what you have put is very insulting.
I |
I'm not actually disagreeing at all, and my apologies if my post was ambiguous. I'm Irish, my family is Irish, I know very well the connotations of what I posted.
What I'm saying is the minute you create a subset, a minority of people who have done nothing wrong other than be part of a minority, you're on a slippery slope. One that I'd hoped might have been left behind 50 years or more ago. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 15:37 - Jan 6 with 1720 views | Hunterhoop |
| Well Done Australia on 15:30 - Jan 6 by WatfordR |
I'm not actually disagreeing at all, and my apologies if my post was ambiguous. I'm Irish, my family is Irish, I know very well the connotations of what I posted.
What I'm saying is the minute you create a subset, a minority of people who have done nothing wrong other than be part of a minority, you're on a slippery slope. One that I'd hoped might have been left behind 50 years or more ago. |
But they have done something wrong. That’s the point. All the science says it’s safe and it is proven to reduce serious illness. Not taking it is wrong for all the reasons stated before about the impact on others. This is not a freedom of choice thing like choosing the pint of beer you want.
And I should add that we’re agreed on Boris/The Tories politically driven decisions. I think there is a case to make vaccinations legal, but accept that they’ll never do it for fear of fallout in the party and with some of the 40% of the electorate that vote for them, risking their place in govt.
But in the meantime restrictions on those without the vaccines by private bodies and the govt, seem entirely fair. The choice still exists to live with them or have the vaccine.
The key here is you (anti-vaxxers) position the decision of whether to have a vaccine as purely a personal, individual one, which it is nobody else’s right to get involved in. Put simply, I do not, nor do he majority, I would estimate, precisely because of the potential impact of that decision on some many people other than themselves (the nhs, people who they pass it to, the highly vulnerable, those who lose their jobs/incomes because businesses can’t survive because the public health risk remains high, etc).
I do thing this public health crisis is different to the examples of collective responsibility you mention. I’m fully aware that Thatcher and Reagan tried to kill it and any sense of community and neoliberalism furthered this ideology. But the public response to the pandemic has shown a wide sense of collective responsibility. Even SteveC went to get the vaccine for this very reason, as he’s admitted, even though he has doubts. Loads of people didn’t want to be locked down, on furlough, having a vaccine, etc, but they did! Loads of people volunteered to help family, friends, strangers, etc, when self isolating. In general the UK population has stuck to the rules (far more than our govt!) and shown tremendous collective responsibility to get through this. Anti-vaxxers have not. It is not unreasonable to suggest they could have and should. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 15:55]
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