| Well Done Australia 21:47 - Jan 5 with 40328 views | DWQPR |
Cancelling the visa for the arrogant anti-Vaxer Djorkovic. Never liked the bloke. Let’s hope other countries follow suit. |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 18:01 - Jan 6 with 2671 views | WatfordR |
| Well Done Australia on 16:41 - Jan 6 by Hunterhoop |
On that logic you are letting your principles be determined by laws decided by the govt (and this govt at that!). Do you agree with every law or lack of law in the country? Surely not. No one does. That’s why we have different political parties and them all receiving votes.
What is Law should not determine what someone considers right or wrong as a principle.
If someone lies to someone and causes them harm, is that “wrong”? Morally, I’d say “yes”.
If someone has an affair with his mate’s wife, is that “wrong”? Many, according to their own principles, would say “yes”.
If someone screws your over financially, without breaking the law, but by deception, is that wrong morally? I’m sure you’d say yes.
Was Keith Stroud wrong to award Sunderland’s goal? Yes,
None of those are illegal.
Having an opinion on what’s right and wrong that’s based purely on the statue book is ludicrous. You can have principles about what’s right and wrong that are different to what’s enshrined in law. I’d go as far as to say such principles/opinions define who you are, your character even.
You may disagree with my opinion, but you aren’t right in holding that opinion just because no law states the act we’re discussing is illegal. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 16:43]
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You're right, we don't need law determining matters of moral or ethics. But there's a difference here in that liars, cheaters, conmen and Stroud don't have to wear a sign saying "LIAR", "CHEAT", "CONMAN" or "C@NT" every time they go out, so the vast majority will never know and have a go as a result.
Anti vaxxers can be recognised as such if it becomes necessary to show you vaccine passport to go into pubs, shops etc. as wood hoop was suggesting. If it becomes popular to have a dig at anti vaxxers, it won't be difficult to find them.
We talked about community spirit in the war, but there were also conscientious objectors then too, and they didn't have an easy time, did they? |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 18:06 - Jan 6 with 2645 views | WatfordR |
| Well Done Australia on 16:58 - Jan 6 by wood_hoop |
Apologie gratefully accepted, not easy to always put in a coherent way ones views, and mine probably lead to conotations that were not meant.
We can't be that far apart we frequent this den of iniquity.
Anyway you missed off 'anyone wearing a 'Chels** shirt' |
Cheers wood. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 18:17 - Jan 6 with 2616 views | Hunterhoop |
| Well Done Australia on 18:01 - Jan 6 by WatfordR |
You're right, we don't need law determining matters of moral or ethics. But there's a difference here in that liars, cheaters, conmen and Stroud don't have to wear a sign saying "LIAR", "CHEAT", "CONMAN" or "C@NT" every time they go out, so the vast majority will never know and have a go as a result.
Anti vaxxers can be recognised as such if it becomes necessary to show you vaccine passport to go into pubs, shops etc. as wood hoop was suggesting. If it becomes popular to have a dig at anti vaxxers, it won't be difficult to find them.
We talked about community spirit in the war, but there were also conscientious objectors then too, and they didn't have an easy time, did they? |
They’ll only be recognised by those they’re with just like liars, cheats, conmen, etc, would be known to those who know them. It’s not this great difference you’re making it. And you’ve moved the discussion on. I presume you accept now that someone can behave wrongly without having to break the law?
I don’t think it will become popular, or is today, to have a pop at someone who does not have a vaccine. This thread shows it. But that is so long as they accept the restrictions such a decision places on them. My partner when pregnant in the summer was very reluctant to get a vaccine, but accepted that meant she had to be very careful and go out less. Her Dad is highly vulnerable. In the end, after lots of research, she had the vaccine.
But had she not, like Juzza’s partner, or if a mate of mine didn’t have it, and we were out and he couldn’t get into a place because of it, or we couldn’t go to LR together, I wouldn’t be digging him out, but I wouldn’t feel any sympathy either. It would be his/her choice.
It’s a choice, but you don’t have a right to do why you want if it could harm others. That means restrictions so the majority can return to a more normal life. Don’t like it, get a vaccine. Don’t want to, fine, live with the restrictions and shut up.
Oh, and that conscientious objector analogy is totally wide of the mark again! That’s a philosophical debate. The analogy with the Second World War, as someone has already pointed out, is anti-vaxxers with those who chose not to pull down their black out blinds or turn off the lights during air raids. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 18:20 - Jan 6 with 2611 views | wood_hoop |
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| Well Done Australia on 19:29 - Jan 6 with 2504 views | kensalriser |
| Well Done Australia on 16:39 - Jan 6 by WatfordR |
Well it may be that in 5-10 years time, there'll be enough medical and scientific evidence to come to an absolute conclusion on that. |
We know now, it's absolutely incontrovertible that the risks are so heavily skewed in favour of vaccination it's not a serious discussion. You might just as well argue that smoking isn't harmful. |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 19:45 - Jan 6 with 2485 views | GroveR |
| Well Done Australia on 17:48 - Jan 6 by Ranger_Things |
In Bristol there were 2 separate attacks on off duty nurses by groups of Anti-vaxers. Staff now told not to wear uniforms, lanyards or anything else that could identify them out of work.
This country is f ucked. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 17:59]
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No, Bristol is fùcked but that's because it's populated by twelve-toed cousin-fingering hillbillies. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 20:21 - Jan 6 with 2406 views | Sonofpugwash |
Don't you think he's got legitimate concerns in the light of sportsmen/sports women/other are dropping like flies post vaccination and the mass media's inability to report on the carnage?
Medicos rushing to the aid of spectators and players becoming a rather unwelcome sight these days. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 20:23]
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| Well Done Australia on 20:23 - Jan 6 with 2417 views | WatfordR |
| Well Done Australia on 18:17 - Jan 6 by Hunterhoop |
They’ll only be recognised by those they’re with just like liars, cheats, conmen, etc, would be known to those who know them. It’s not this great difference you’re making it. And you’ve moved the discussion on. I presume you accept now that someone can behave wrongly without having to break the law?
I don’t think it will become popular, or is today, to have a pop at someone who does not have a vaccine. This thread shows it. But that is so long as they accept the restrictions such a decision places on them. My partner when pregnant in the summer was very reluctant to get a vaccine, but accepted that meant she had to be very careful and go out less. Her Dad is highly vulnerable. In the end, after lots of research, she had the vaccine.
But had she not, like Juzza’s partner, or if a mate of mine didn’t have it, and we were out and he couldn’t get into a place because of it, or we couldn’t go to LR together, I wouldn’t be digging him out, but I wouldn’t feel any sympathy either. It would be his/her choice.
It’s a choice, but you don’t have a right to do why you want if it could harm others. That means restrictions so the majority can return to a more normal life. Don’t like it, get a vaccine. Don’t want to, fine, live with the restrictions and shut up.
Oh, and that conscientious objector analogy is totally wide of the mark again! That’s a philosophical debate. The analogy with the Second World War, as someone has already pointed out, is anti-vaxxers with those who chose not to pull down their black out blinds or turn off the lights during air raids. |
Hunter, as Clive suggested earlier, you've got a view, I've got a view, and whatever we say to each other, we won't change each other's mind. The concept of wrong, we've obviously got different ideas of what it means.
I hope you're right about how tolerant the majority are towards those who in the minority who have a different view. I am aware that there are some anti vaxxers who have extreme views to support their beliefs, but I don't think it's right to lump everyone who chooses not to have the vaccine into the extreme/selfish/nutter category.
Normally, if you take action to physically harm someone else, you'll be held responsible and subject to the rule of law. Even if you've no deliberate intent to do so. So I'll go back to my original point, why not take personal beliefs out of it and make vaccination mandatory? Then everyone knows exactly where they are.
Personally, I can't see how restricting a few people from going shopping, or to football or pubs or restaurants is going get the rest of us back to a normal life. Omicron came from S Africa, and would still have been here even if we had 100% adult vaccination in the UK.
Finally, the conscientious objector bit. If you're against the idea, you can come up with an analogy to support your view I suppose. The point was, they again were a minority who were largely vilified for the position they took.
Anyhow, I think we probably both know where we are now. Let's leave it there. | | | |
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| Well Done Australia on 20:26 - Jan 6 with 2393 views | Sonofpugwash |
| Well Done Australia on 19:29 - Jan 6 by kensalriser |
We know now, it's absolutely incontrovertible that the risks are so heavily skewed in favour of vaccination it's not a serious discussion. You might just as well argue that smoking isn't harmful. |
Not quite right,the FDA have put a block on releasing the Pfizer Covid 19 data to the public for 75 years. | |
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| Well Done Australia on 20:32 - Jan 6 with 2395 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Excellent debate, folks. |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 21:22 - Jan 6 with 2278 views | Clive_Anderson |
I think if anyone looks at the actual data, it's pretty obvious the vaccines don't stop you catching or passing on the virus.
There's an argument that non-vaxxed could be more likely to require hospital treatment (having looked at a lot of data I'm not convinced this is true either, but am prepared to go along with it), but I don't think Djokivic falls into that category. Also he's been tested before arriving, so there's not logical reason to stop him from playing at all. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 21:49 - Jan 6 with 2247 views | Juzzie |
| Well Done Australia on 20:21 - Jan 6 by Sonofpugwash |
Don't you think he's got legitimate concerns in the light of sportsmen/sports women/other are dropping like flies post vaccination and the mass media's inability to report on the carnage?
Medicos rushing to the aid of spectators and players becoming a rather unwelcome sight these days. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 20:23]
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Genuine question….. if the mass media is not reporting it how do we know it’s happening?
Also, vaccines don’t stop people from getting it, just makes you less ill. Still ill, just not as bad. |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 21:53 - Jan 6 with 2237 views | CiderwithRsie |
Please, someone start a football match. Pleeeeaase. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 00:41 - Jan 7 with 2058 views | SydneyRs |
| Well Done Australia on 21:22 - Jan 6 by Clive_Anderson |
I think if anyone looks at the actual data, it's pretty obvious the vaccines don't stop you catching or passing on the virus.
There's an argument that non-vaxxed could be more likely to require hospital treatment (having looked at a lot of data I'm not convinced this is true either, but am prepared to go along with it), but I don't think Djokivic falls into that category. Also he's been tested before arriving, so there's not logical reason to stop him from playing at all. |
Its not about that. Australia has rules and requirements on who can enter the country. He currently does not satisfy those rules. End of story. He was well aware of the rules a long time ago.
He doesn't have to get vaccinated if he doesn't want to. He also doesn't have the right to just walk into countries, circumventing border rules, just because he's rich and famous. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 01:25 - Jan 7 with 2021 views | TheRam |
I wish they cancelled the England cricket team’s visas x | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 02:55 - Jan 7 with 1958 views | SydneyRs |
| Well Done Australia on 01:25 - Jan 7 by TheRam |
I wish they cancelled the England cricket team’s visas x |
Tour should never have happened and has proved to be exactly what I expected, an uncompetitive waste of time. Forced through by commercial interests.
England didn't want to come, clearly don't want to be here and are not very good anyway. This Australian team is nothing special as an injury hit India showed here last year. We're making them look like legends. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 03:25 - Jan 7 with 1939 views | Kiwi76 |
Hope you’re not at SCG Sydney - brutal
Was at NZ test in Melbourne couple of years ago & we got our backsides handed to us in 4 days but showed more than this - good luck to Borland but he’s not the best bowler test crickets ever seen |  | | |
| Well Done Australia on 05:31 - Jan 7 with 1893 views | SydneyRs |
| Well Done Australia on 03:25 - Jan 7 by Kiwi76 |
Hope you’re not at SCG Sydney - brutal
Was at NZ test in Melbourne couple of years ago & we got our backsides handed to us in 4 days but showed more than this - good luck to Borland but he’s not the best bowler test crickets ever seen |
I haven't watched any of this series. Channel Seven is broadcasting it here and only via antenna connections. We ditched our antenna a while back and only watch TV via the internet, therefore I haven't seen any of it.
With the amount of covid going around (over 30k cases a day in NSW for about a week - 38k today - I've just shaken off a bout of it) I'm not sure why anyone wants to be at the ground. Consider we were getting about 300 per day not that long ago and the numbers are only those who can get near a PCR test so you can probably at least double them in reality.
It was obvious months before that England did not want to tour. Its showing. Completely pointless series that I doubt even Aussie fans are getting too much out of. | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 06:31 - Jan 7 with 1861 views | CamberleyR |
Getting back to the point about Djokovic. Undeniably one of the all time greats of tennis he is, but the bloke is an absolute fûcking nutjob. He believes that polluted water can be transformed by the power of positive energy. I'll just leave this here.
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| Well Done Australia on 07:42 - Jan 7 with 1783 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Well Done Australia on 21:22 - Jan 6 by Clive_Anderson |
I think if anyone looks at the actual data, it's pretty obvious the vaccines don't stop you catching or passing on the virus.
There's an argument that non-vaxxed could be more likely to require hospital treatment (having looked at a lot of data I'm not convinced this is true either, but am prepared to go along with it), but I don't think Djokivic falls into that category. Also he's been tested before arriving, so there's not logical reason to stop him from playing at all. |
This. It sounds like a lot of fuss over nothing to me. |  |
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| Well Done Australia on 13:30 - Jan 7 with 1479 views | Sonofpugwash |
| Well Done Australia on 21:49 - Jan 6 by Juzzie |
Genuine question….. if the mass media is not reporting it how do we know it’s happening?
Also, vaccines don’t stop people from getting it, just makes you less ill. Still ill, just not as bad. |
Evidence of ones' own eyes for starters.
Have you noticed how "Factcheckers " are quiet these days.Yes,for my eternal shame I do follow some social media platforms and had I dared putting up a comment about post vaccination musings they would have been all over me like a cheap suit.I believe people are finally waking up to the possible consequences of their actions. [Post edited 7 Jan 2022 13:35]
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| Well Done Australia on 13:42 - Jan 7 with 1459 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Well Done Australia on 07:42 - Jan 7 by CliveWilsonSaid |
This. It sounds like a lot of fuss over nothing to me. |
And this is one of the points - if the vaccine doesn't stop you getting or passing on the virus then why are the vaccinated and government full of so much hatred for the unvaccinated? Surely they (the unvaccinated) are only putting themselves in harms way now that everyone who wants a vaccine has had one?
And I hope noone says "It's because the health service will be overwhelmed if everyone isn't vaccinated", because that's just plain rubbish IMHO. Firstly, the health service won't be overwhelmed by the minority of unvaccinated; and secondly, if they (the government) were that bothered about the health service being any good they would have done something about improving it long before now.
None of it stacks up for me. All who want to be vaccinated have been vaccinated. It's all just political (or worse) now. Time to completely drop all the testing, isolation, and all that other rubbish and just move on now IMHO (it's achieving nothing other than causing yet more chaos). The situation in Australia is farcical and, again, absolutely nothing to do with health. Hopefully the madness finally ends in 2022, although I'm not holding my breath as I think they'll push full on with the covid passport 'agenda' in 2022. Time will tell I guess.
In the meantime, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in Oz with ND. Looks like he may have the will and money to take on the Govt. Good on him. [Post edited 7 Jan 2022 13:54]
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| Well Done Australia on 13:43 - Jan 7 with 1457 views | Sonofpugwash |
Apparently there's a leaked document revealing that states unvaccinated tennis players would be allowed a visa and could play at Aussie tournaments.
A big official f*ck up resulted in this farce.
I'm also hearing that in Northern Territories you cant go out to exercise /go to work if you're unvaxxed.Is this true Aussie supporters? | |
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| Well Done Australia on 13:44 - Jan 7 with 1447 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Well Done Australia on 14:54 - Jan 6 by Hunterhoop |
You’ve lost your mind, Beast. And you’ve changed so much from March 2020. You’re so far down the rabbit hole I think you’re probably lost. But, if you can take a look at yourself and come back to reality. |
I have changed so much because the situation has changed so much and we can all see so much more of what the situation actually now is. This is no longer a health emergency. It is either politicising or something far more sinister. In light of the facts, nothing else makes any sense any more | | | |
| Well Done Australia on 14:11 - Jan 7 with 1401 views | R_from_afar |
Two points on how fast the Covid vaccines were developed:
- Think about the huge demand for a vaccine. We weren't talking about a product to treat a rare or unusual condition, this was - is - a highly contagious disease which looked likely to affect millions of people, including the people who work for the pharmaceutical companies. The incentives for developing vaccines were huge so resources were poured into the R&D programmes
- The urgency meant that manufacturers went ahead and produced bulk quantities at the same time as the clinical trials were going on. Normally, the approach is a linear one which is far less risky for the pharmaceutical firms from a balance sheet perspective: Do the trials and only manufacture in bulk once the trials have been successful. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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