| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. 17:02 - Mar 5 with 7716 views | Snipper |
Pussyfooting about when 1-0 up. |  | | |  |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 20:33 - Mar 5 with 2152 views | Stanisgod |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 17:34 - Mar 5 by Hunterhoop |
Call a spade a spade, Bosh. Only two players went to AFCON and one was a keeper who has nothing to do with our forward play, and whose understudy was here whilst he was away when we won 5 from 6.
Our form drop coincides with one player’s return. He’s a talented player, but it’s no longer just a correlation; the sample is too big and trend too stark. |
I said on another thread BEFORE todays game that is it coincidence that since Chair came back weve fallen apart, its the old if its not broke dont fix it thing.
The team, although scraping wins, were obviously more of a team maybe than lately, no one should be undroppable or substituted to change things. Cardiff brought on a little quick scrote and it worked, he immediately made a difference, we did nothing. |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
| |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 20:39 - Mar 5 with 2127 views | Myke |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 17:04 - Mar 5 by ted_hendrix |
We are so-so a mid table team, honestly we really are. |
C'mon Ted that's not like you. We have spent almost the entire season proving we are rather more than a 'so -so mid-table team. You didn't think that at half-time. We are just in a rotten run of form, as are Blackburn. As were Bournemouth (and they are still iffy despite all their out-lay) and of course West Brom. But we have not become a bad team. Whatever happens it has been the most enjoyable season for a decade - Keep the faith |  | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 20:53 - Mar 5 with 2075 views | Hunterhoop |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 18:14 - Mar 5 by BklynRanger |
Ok but I think you'd agree it's not Chair's fault. If he is part of the decline it's how he's been used and the pattern of play that we've dropped in to on his return.
I did think he came back in a bit automatically to a winning team having hardly played for 6 weeks, which could have caused problems, but that may be bordering on Heat magazine stuff.
Either way Ilias isn't the problem, he's a gifted player we're lucky to have, it's how he's being used if anything. |
I think the way he plays is a problem. Lots of talent but he moves it slowly, almost always cuts inside (condensing the pitch) and he doesn’t play it early enough allowing defenders to get into position.
Lots of technical ability.
But when he was out we had move it quicker because we had fewer “ball players”. Willock delivered it earlier to Dykes, we attacked with more purpose, and we moved it a bit quicker. Our possession stats were actually quite low (for us) on that run, and our pass completion stats in the final half were actually pretty poor. But we conceded fewer because we had an extra central midfielder, and when we attacked we did actually try to create rather than focus on possession.
Since Chair has come back possession is up, but goals and results have got worse.
To be clear, I really rate Chair, but he needs to start moving it quicker and making the ball to the hard work. Assists and chances created should be what he’s graded on, but he plays like it’s pass completion and touch count. Either Warburton needs to get in his ear and get him to change his game OR we should go back to the side without him and see how we fare. What’s to lose? |  | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 21:03 - Mar 5 with 2046 views | DannytheR |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 20:53 - Mar 5 by Hunterhoop |
I think the way he plays is a problem. Lots of talent but he moves it slowly, almost always cuts inside (condensing the pitch) and he doesn’t play it early enough allowing defenders to get into position.
Lots of technical ability.
But when he was out we had move it quicker because we had fewer “ball players”. Willock delivered it earlier to Dykes, we attacked with more purpose, and we moved it a bit quicker. Our possession stats were actually quite low (for us) on that run, and our pass completion stats in the final half were actually pretty poor. But we conceded fewer because we had an extra central midfielder, and when we attacked we did actually try to create rather than focus on possession.
Since Chair has come back possession is up, but goals and results have got worse.
To be clear, I really rate Chair, but he needs to start moving it quicker and making the ball to the hard work. Assists and chances created should be what he’s graded on, but he plays like it’s pass completion and touch count. Either Warburton needs to get in his ear and get him to change his game OR we should go back to the side without him and see how we fare. What’s to lose? |
I don't disagree with everything you're saying about Chair, but bloody hell, talk about giving the real guilty parties a pass here.
Willock was also delivering it earlier to Dykes when Dykes was actually in the team. I know results were on the turn before he went AWOL, but Dykes (for all his faults) at least gave the attack a proper focal point. Who are Chair, Willock, Albert or anyone else supposed to be delivering balls to now?
Chair still has flaws in his game, but even the most selfless, canny number 10 is going to struggle in a team effectively trying to get promoted with no proper forwards, because our two senior, Premiership-experienced strikers are both such an immobile, invisible waste of time and money. [Post edited 5 Mar 2022 21:07]
|  | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 22:03 - Mar 5 with 1908 views | superhoopdownunder |
Since Reading when everything looked promising - we have played 8 games
Won 1 (a late winner vs. Blackpool)
Drawn 2 (at home vs. Hull and Middlesbrough)
Lost 5 (Cardiff (home) and away to Blackburn, Millwall, Barnsley and Peterborough)
Not sure what's gone wrong but we don't look like the same team | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 22:22 - Mar 5 with 1854 views | DannytheR |
PS And the goalkeeper too. | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 23:18 - Mar 5 with 1769 views | ted_hendrix |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 20:39 - Mar 5 by Myke |
C'mon Ted that's not like you. We have spent almost the entire season proving we are rather more than a 'so -so mid-table team. You didn't think that at half-time. We are just in a rotten run of form, as are Blackburn. As were Bournemouth (and they are still iffy despite all their out-lay) and of course West Brom. But we have not become a bad team. Whatever happens it has been the most enjoyable season for a decade - Keep the faith |
*Keep the faith* you say, well I have been keeping the faith this season for a long time and as I posted somewhere else we're still in the play off's and in a healthy position but It's ours to lose but after thumping the dreadful fakes at the end of January we had a half decent fixture list and a few opportunities to cement ourselves in the play offs and let other teams worry about themselves, IMO and disappointingly we never took advantage of that which got me thinking maybe we're not as good as we like to think we are.
Look, we've got good players and we've got an excellent Manager but the one thing I found missing or sort of noticed today was from leading 1-0 in a spell of some 5 minutes we were losing 2-1, now a few weeks ago we'd have been straight back at them with a never say die attitude, unless there's something wrong with my bloody eyesight I never saw that today??
Sure as hell don't want to sound melodramatic but I've got a weeny bit of a suspicion that all is not well in the camp, sincerely hope I'm wrong (silly me).
We're having a great season no doubt about that and today we were good in the first half, I dunno just don't feel right to me at the moment.
It's ours to lose. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
| |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 23:29 - Mar 5 with 1730 views | Hunterhoop |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 21:03 - Mar 5 by DannytheR |
I don't disagree with everything you're saying about Chair, but bloody hell, talk about giving the real guilty parties a pass here.
Willock was also delivering it earlier to Dykes when Dykes was actually in the team. I know results were on the turn before he went AWOL, but Dykes (for all his faults) at least gave the attack a proper focal point. Who are Chair, Willock, Albert or anyone else supposed to be delivering balls to now?
Chair still has flaws in his game, but even the most selfless, canny number 10 is going to struggle in a team effectively trying to get promoted with no proper forwards, because our two senior, Premiership-experienced strikers are both such an immobile, invisible waste of time and money. [Post edited 5 Mar 2022 21:07]
|
It’s a fair criticism of Austin and Gray. But for all his faults (especially not challenging for any headers and often being on his heels) Gray does make runs but they’re always early before our midfield even considers/sees the pass. And Chair has a history of not playing it early to Dykes when he’s open. Our forwards have been poor though, no doubt.
But Chair has been back 8 games, played in all (I think!), and we’ve won 1. Whilst he was away we won 5 and drew 1 from 6 league games (and won a pen shoot out vs Rotherham). Marshall, for his faults, played in those 6 games. Dieng has returned but he doesn’t play much of a role when we have the ball. And Hendricks, who’s also joined during this 8 game run, hasn’t played in them all.
I’m not trying to scapegoat Chair. He’s one of our best players. Hugely talented. The above is just an observation. If you read those stats about a player, without knowing who they were, you’d think they may be a big issue.
FWIW, I’d want to keep Chair in the team IF he starts moving it more quickly and playing more early passes and crosses, because the rest of his game is very good. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 23:43 - Mar 5 with 1700 views | Rangersw12 |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 23:29 - Mar 5 by Hunterhoop |
It’s a fair criticism of Austin and Gray. But for all his faults (especially not challenging for any headers and often being on his heels) Gray does make runs but they’re always early before our midfield even considers/sees the pass. And Chair has a history of not playing it early to Dykes when he’s open. Our forwards have been poor though, no doubt.
But Chair has been back 8 games, played in all (I think!), and we’ve won 1. Whilst he was away we won 5 and drew 1 from 6 league games (and won a pen shoot out vs Rotherham). Marshall, for his faults, played in those 6 games. Dieng has returned but he doesn’t play much of a role when we have the ball. And Hendricks, who’s also joined during this 8 game run, hasn’t played in them all.
I’m not trying to scapegoat Chair. He’s one of our best players. Hugely talented. The above is just an observation. If you read those stats about a player, without knowing who they were, you’d think they may be a big issue.
FWIW, I’d want to keep Chair in the team IF he starts moving it more quickly and playing more early passes and crosses, because the rest of his game is very good. |
How many games did we win with Chair in the side in 2021?
Anyone with half a brain would of seen that Marshall didn't do anything Seny wouldn't of done but as usual with us he was new and shiny and people went overboard. Last few games has shown why he didn't get into Derby's team | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 23:55 - Mar 5 with 1672 views | Hunterhoop |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 23:43 - Mar 5 by Rangersw12 |
How many games did we win with Chair in the side in 2021?
Anyone with half a brain would of seen that Marshall didn't do anything Seny wouldn't of done but as usual with us he was new and shiny and people went overboard. Last few games has shown why he didn't get into Derby's team |
I’d definitely start Dieng too. Was glad when Warburton made that big call. It’s a shame he’s out injured. Completely separate discussion/topic to the Chair one though. | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 04:54 - Mar 6 with 1564 views | superhoopdownunder |
You can often tell things are not right at a workplace when people take lots of time off sick / injured with minor niggles
We seem to have quite a few of these players now
You never seem to hear of these minor niggles in successful teams | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 06:41 - Mar 6 with 1523 views | PastCaringNW2 |
Squad size is less of an issue than the large amount of player inactivity we seem to carry as a matter of course.
Of the 10 defenders listed as such on the web site - one is on loan, one is suspended, three rarely get a sniff and are presumably not trusted. Fortunately the problems are mainly at wingback but Lee Wallace, the player who does a lot to make our lop-sidedness work is of an age where he is going to be out 12-15 plus games a season. Which is where we have been of late.
Of the 12 midfield players listed as such - two never play, three are more often than not unavailable, one is off playing wing back or not starting and has played a lot of football in a very demanding position the last two years for a man of his age. Leaves six to fill four spots with a lot of interchangeability and not much X factor when Chair and WIllock are not near the top of their games.
Otherwise ....
A little too much pleasure taken in how pretty the "nearly" moments look and not enough determination to make them count. Very Arsenal circa Nasri, Wilshere and Chamakh.
The pressing, when it happens, is usually a one man effort, sporadic and futile unless the opposing goal keeper is especially useless with the ball at his feet and even then, however willing Amos or Field is to do the yards, there is a futility to it.
That said the biggest problem for me is that we do look very lopsided going forward.
There is very little creativity or forward drive from the pivot without Johansen and even then we end up sitting on the edge of the area passing, passing, passing, waiting for their errors / mental fatigue to open up an opportunity rather than forcing one. Which is surprising in front of this back three as you would think their stability would give at least one of those in front of them more licence to roam and carry the ball into the spaces ahead. A systemic fear of the turnover perhaps?
I do love Field and Johansen but none of our central players are exactly Barry Bannan and we effectively play without a centrally-focussed #10 in any case. Most of the 10-like passing seems to come (when it comes) from the back and the midfield have an allergy to shooting from range not shared by the three, lets be kind and say "somewhat over-confident", wayward sons who play behind them.
Speaking of options could Bonne have been brought back (if under a cloud)? A really good finisher half the time but with the capacity to miss all the "my Gran could have scored that" chances. Then again he is not alone in that at the moment.
Sitting in Nu I often find myself missing Pav "racing" towards us, blowing and sweating like the favourite in a steeplechase handicap. Oh to have that kind of option on the bench. Will we ever find out what Shodipo can do? Probably not.
Gray is quite possibly starting to be guilty of doing what a lot of loan players seem to do once the window is shut and their current deal is due to expire which is focussing on his own stats a wee bit and keeping out of trouble injury wise. Which might be fine and understandable (given what is presumably at stake for him personally) if he didn't keep wandering wide to join up with Willock and Chair leaving no one to poach. Another really nice finish though. Could be better in a two with Dykes though that does nothing for our creativity.
All that said there are better days ahead and I wouldn't bet against us picking up another 6 wins out the remaining games. Enough for top six? 50/50 at this stage. Would have taken that as the March prognosis back in August but a point in each of the last two would have been very handy. |  | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:19 - Mar 6 with 1352 views | RangersDave |
Some great points, and i especially wonder who, given the chance to go up, thinks their either not good enough and are surely to be replaced, or thinks that they are in a comfort zone and can keep picking up a wedge in the championship next season.
After all, this team, even when 'on song' aint good enough to compete in the premiership, and would, i'm terrified to say, need replacing totally. |  |
| |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:26 - Mar 6 with 1342 views | golborne |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 17:34 - Mar 5 by Hunterhoop |
Call a spade a spade, Bosh. Only two players went to AFCON and one was a keeper who has nothing to do with our forward play, and whose understudy was here whilst he was away when we won 5 from 6.
Our form drop coincides with one player’s return. He’s a talented player, but it’s no longer just a correlation; the sample is too big and trend too stark. |
Do you actually watch games and how we set up? When chair was away we had to change the way we played. From open attacking football it became strong disciplined lines set up not to concede and then see where we get to going forward- reality is every team will get a couple of chances in most games and we took ours. It worked, but it would only have taken a couple of defeats for folk on here to start saying we have no ambition anymore. Since chairs return we’ve tried to switch back to the football that had us all (even the miserable doom mungers on here) on the edge of our seats first half of the season. Bar the first hour yesterday it hasn’t been clicking of late for a few reasons. Willock is knackered. It’s his first full season and for the 6 games that chair was away he had to do all the attacking running. He looked amazing in that period, but it’s catching up with him. Yesterday showed it when he lost that ball down by the corner of the loft. He tried to get it back, but it looked like he was wearing cement boots. Really felt for him and he was removed 30 secs later. This coupled with teams either doubling up, or kicking him in every match will take effect. Wilders team of squaddie ankle biters the worst example of. Last season Stef was key to everything we did, he’s struggled for much of the season probably cos he seems to be carrying knocks all the time. Field, who is one of the first players on the team sheet for me, isn’t a great footballer. He often needs two touches to control it (nearly gave away a goal at Blackburn cos of it) and is the worst culprit of playing it backwards. 2nd balls, lunging tackles he’s your man, but we do lose a bit of slickness in the middle. Our strikers are struggling for form, and have all continually picked up knocks throughout the season. It’s been rare that any have started more than a couple of games on the spin. Strikers need a run to gain form and once they have their eye in it starts to happen naturally for them. The first half was much better yesterday, probably the best it’s been (with this formation) since pre Stoke, so for that I’m positive today and looking forward to the next 11 games. Chair constantly coming deep to collect the ball really worked well, it took the pressure off the likes of field having to play football when it clearly isn’t something they have in their locker. Anybody questioning chairs ability and importance to this team really have no clue about football and probably sit in the win at any cost camp and would rather see more bruise and less guile. Frankly, they’re supporting the wrong club and care little for our history over the past nearly 50 years. We’ve won sweet fa of note, and the only thing positive is us being entertained by some really exciting teams for periods. That’s the most you can hope for supporting this club, and the current crop have mostly delivered on the entertainment front. Maybe we’ll fall short, but maybe it’ll turn and we’ll make the late run. The fact that most expect us to be up there should be taken as a positive from where we were a few years ago. At least one team always makes a run, and on that note keep an eye on West Brom, cos that position is the most false in the league. Along with Huddersfield and Wilders ankle biters. We can look at their rise, but they need to sustain that high tempo game for another 13-14 matches. It ain’t over yet! Urrs | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:38 - Mar 6 with 1301 views | Hunterhoop |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:26 - Mar 6 by golborne |
Do you actually watch games and how we set up? When chair was away we had to change the way we played. From open attacking football it became strong disciplined lines set up not to concede and then see where we get to going forward- reality is every team will get a couple of chances in most games and we took ours. It worked, but it would only have taken a couple of defeats for folk on here to start saying we have no ambition anymore. Since chairs return we’ve tried to switch back to the football that had us all (even the miserable doom mungers on here) on the edge of our seats first half of the season. Bar the first hour yesterday it hasn’t been clicking of late for a few reasons. Willock is knackered. It’s his first full season and for the 6 games that chair was away he had to do all the attacking running. He looked amazing in that period, but it’s catching up with him. Yesterday showed it when he lost that ball down by the corner of the loft. He tried to get it back, but it looked like he was wearing cement boots. Really felt for him and he was removed 30 secs later. This coupled with teams either doubling up, or kicking him in every match will take effect. Wilders team of squaddie ankle biters the worst example of. Last season Stef was key to everything we did, he’s struggled for much of the season probably cos he seems to be carrying knocks all the time. Field, who is one of the first players on the team sheet for me, isn’t a great footballer. He often needs two touches to control it (nearly gave away a goal at Blackburn cos of it) and is the worst culprit of playing it backwards. 2nd balls, lunging tackles he’s your man, but we do lose a bit of slickness in the middle. Our strikers are struggling for form, and have all continually picked up knocks throughout the season. It’s been rare that any have started more than a couple of games on the spin. Strikers need a run to gain form and once they have their eye in it starts to happen naturally for them. The first half was much better yesterday, probably the best it’s been (with this formation) since pre Stoke, so for that I’m positive today and looking forward to the next 11 games. Chair constantly coming deep to collect the ball really worked well, it took the pressure off the likes of field having to play football when it clearly isn’t something they have in their locker. Anybody questioning chairs ability and importance to this team really have no clue about football and probably sit in the win at any cost camp and would rather see more bruise and less guile. Frankly, they’re supporting the wrong club and care little for our history over the past nearly 50 years. We’ve won sweet fa of note, and the only thing positive is us being entertained by some really exciting teams for periods. That’s the most you can hope for supporting this club, and the current crop have mostly delivered on the entertainment front. Maybe we’ll fall short, but maybe it’ll turn and we’ll make the late run. The fact that most expect us to be up there should be taken as a positive from where we were a few years ago. At least one team always makes a run, and on that note keep an eye on West Brom, cos that position is the most false in the league. Along with Huddersfield and Wilders ankle biters. We can look at their rise, but they need to sustain that high tempo game for another 13-14 matches. It ain’t over yet! Urrs |
Christ, alive. Read my posts properly. Take a breath. Use some paragraphs.
I am not questioning Chair’s ability. Technically, he is one of our best players. There is no doubt of that, in my mind.
I am just making an observation about the results for the 6 league games he missed and the 8 games he’s been back and starting in (7 league, one cup loss away at Posh). He is the only material change.
If you think it is purely coincidental, that’s fine. You may be right. I’m just making an observation.
I don’t think we were actually playing that well on the winning run, tbh. We more more functional but our passing was certainly worse.
But we haven’t improved since Chair came back, have we? For all his strengths I do think he needs to move it quicker, play it earlier and go on the outside more. I think all will help us score more goals and get better results. He’s integral to the team and if he’s not playing well, I think it’s okay to discuss that.
And yes, whilst I don’t thing I should have to answer this, I do watch our games. I’m at ST holder of about 25 years. At the back of Pu if you want to chat. Although I don’t think I’d particularly want to chat with you based on the nature of your post. | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:51 - Mar 6 with 1274 views | Superhoop83 |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:38 - Mar 6 by Hunterhoop |
Christ, alive. Read my posts properly. Take a breath. Use some paragraphs.
I am not questioning Chair’s ability. Technically, he is one of our best players. There is no doubt of that, in my mind.
I am just making an observation about the results for the 6 league games he missed and the 8 games he’s been back and starting in (7 league, one cup loss away at Posh). He is the only material change.
If you think it is purely coincidental, that’s fine. You may be right. I’m just making an observation.
I don’t think we were actually playing that well on the winning run, tbh. We more more functional but our passing was certainly worse.
But we haven’t improved since Chair came back, have we? For all his strengths I do think he needs to move it quicker, play it earlier and go on the outside more. I think all will help us score more goals and get better results. He’s integral to the team and if he’s not playing well, I think it’s okay to discuss that.
And yes, whilst I don’t thing I should have to answer this, I do watch our games. I’m at ST holder of about 25 years. At the back of Pu if you want to chat. Although I don’t think I’d particularly want to chat with you based on the nature of your post. |
I was tempted to ask whether playing Chair and Willock might be a bit of a luxury, but for me they are among the first names on the team sheet. However, they usually get closely marked and without them pulling the strings we have virtually no creativity.
I think the fundamental problem is up front as Dykes is injured a lot, Austin can't play the lone striker role and Gray can't give us 90 good minutes. That scoring run of matches was misleading as we rarely scored more than 1 or 2 and I feared that the goals might dry up.
I also think Johansen's loss of form has been a problem.
Our confidence now seems shot to ribbons and unless Dykes gets fit and firing and Johansen finds his mojo quickly, we are going to slide down the table. [Post edited 6 Mar 2022 10:53]
|  |
| |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:54 - Mar 6 with 1263 views | daveB |
i don't think performances in the last 8 games have been hugely different the 8 before when we were winning. Difference has been in these tight games things have gone against us recently just as they went for us before
We can talk about styles of play, team selection, transfer policy as much as we like but the problem is a mental issue, they were a beaten side at 1-1 yesterday heads dropped and they stopped doing all the things that had got them in front |  | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 11:04 - Mar 6 with 1229 views | ellersliehoop |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 23:29 - Mar 5 by Hunterhoop |
It’s a fair criticism of Austin and Gray. But for all his faults (especially not challenging for any headers and often being on his heels) Gray does make runs but they’re always early before our midfield even considers/sees the pass. And Chair has a history of not playing it early to Dykes when he’s open. Our forwards have been poor though, no doubt.
But Chair has been back 8 games, played in all (I think!), and we’ve won 1. Whilst he was away we won 5 and drew 1 from 6 league games (and won a pen shoot out vs Rotherham). Marshall, for his faults, played in those 6 games. Dieng has returned but he doesn’t play much of a role when we have the ball. And Hendricks, who’s also joined during this 8 game run, hasn’t played in them all.
I’m not trying to scapegoat Chair. He’s one of our best players. Hugely talented. The above is just an observation. If you read those stats about a player, without knowing who they were, you’d think they may be a big issue.
FWIW, I’d want to keep Chair in the team IF he starts moving it more quickly and playing more early passes and crosses, because the rest of his game is very good. |
We simply dont put the ball into the box enough, instead we pass pas pass. I lost count of the times Gray made runs yesterday only to throw his arms up in frustration when the ball wasn't played in.
In my opinion we would be better off playing one of either Chair or Willock and playing a second striker | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 11:13 - Mar 6 with 1201 views | Hunterhoop |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:54 - Mar 6 by daveB |
i don't think performances in the last 8 games have been hugely different the 8 before when we were winning. Difference has been in these tight games things have gone against us recently just as they went for us before
We can talk about styles of play, team selection, transfer policy as much as we like but the problem is a mental issue, they were a beaten side at 1-1 yesterday heads dropped and they stopped doing all the things that had got them in front |
I wouldn’t disagree with that, Dave. But two things:
1) in that winning run, I do think we played the ball forward more quickly (often misplaced) because we had to because we had less of the ball. Those 3 Reading goals were examples of attacking quickly and playing it early. Adomah’s winner against Cov, a great cross earlier than the defence was expecting. I’m sure those with better memories can think of other goals.
2) we should be looking at what individual players actually available and the team as a whole could do better/differently to arrest the slump. Solutions not just problems.
In my view, attacking with more intent, crossing it or playing the through ball earlier, moving the ball more quickly, taking a few more risks in the final 3rd rather than playing backwards too much are all things that I think will help. This is pretty much in line with what Warburton has said.
Personally I think Chair is a player who could really benefit from doing the above. It would make him a better player and us a better team. Willock, for example, is much more direct in his play. That one chance we created in the second half was him playing it through early for Gray. Chair played the whole game and created very little, often because Cardiff could reset whilst he held onto it.
I think he’s a very good footballer. Lots of technical ability, but I do think he can improve and what I’m suggesting above isn’t hard. It’s a mentality thing. It’s not like asking him to get taller or quicker!
I felt the whole team, with Chair at its heart, came out second half with zero intent to try to score a second, which was/is immensely frustrating when we were playing a weaker side, 1 up, at home, attacking the Loft. Either Warburton instructed them to just try to control it OR they didn’t follow his instructions and played like that of their own accord. If the latter, they deserve criticism. | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 11:18 - Mar 6 with 1184 views | Hunterhoop |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 11:04 - Mar 6 by ellersliehoop |
We simply dont put the ball into the box enough, instead we pass pas pass. I lost count of the times Gray made runs yesterday only to throw his arms up in frustration when the ball wasn't played in.
In my opinion we would be better off playing one of either Chair or Willock and playing a second striker |
I brought my brother in law and they were his main observation: “you were good in the first half, played some nice football, miles better than them, but there’s not much end product. You rarely play the final ball and you only have one person in the box. Second half, I just don’t understand why you stopped trying to attack at all.”
Now, neither of those points relates to the forwards, in this case Gray. He doesn’t dictate the build up nor plays the final ball. It’s Willock, Chair and Hendricks. As someone said on another thread. They were self indulgent in our build up play. We turned down lots of opportunities to cross it, slip it in or play a pass, just to keep the ball.
The first gave was still good, in my view. The second half was appalling, even if we’d won 1-0. Not trying to attack at all is just inexcusable.
I should add, in response to your last point, I think I’d still play Chair and Willock off a 9, but I’d just be very clear with them about moving it quicker with assists and goals being the target not ball retention and completed passes. For the amount of minutes played, Chair needs to deliver more assists. Willock is pretty good in that regard, hence why he’s our best player. If we co timid to struggle, I think he’ll have to mix it up. [Post edited 6 Mar 2022 11:23]
| | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 12:25 - Mar 6 with 1111 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 10:26 - Mar 6 by golborne |
Do you actually watch games and how we set up? When chair was away we had to change the way we played. From open attacking football it became strong disciplined lines set up not to concede and then see where we get to going forward- reality is every team will get a couple of chances in most games and we took ours. It worked, but it would only have taken a couple of defeats for folk on here to start saying we have no ambition anymore. Since chairs return we’ve tried to switch back to the football that had us all (even the miserable doom mungers on here) on the edge of our seats first half of the season. Bar the first hour yesterday it hasn’t been clicking of late for a few reasons. Willock is knackered. It’s his first full season and for the 6 games that chair was away he had to do all the attacking running. He looked amazing in that period, but it’s catching up with him. Yesterday showed it when he lost that ball down by the corner of the loft. He tried to get it back, but it looked like he was wearing cement boots. Really felt for him and he was removed 30 secs later. This coupled with teams either doubling up, or kicking him in every match will take effect. Wilders team of squaddie ankle biters the worst example of. Last season Stef was key to everything we did, he’s struggled for much of the season probably cos he seems to be carrying knocks all the time. Field, who is one of the first players on the team sheet for me, isn’t a great footballer. He often needs two touches to control it (nearly gave away a goal at Blackburn cos of it) and is the worst culprit of playing it backwards. 2nd balls, lunging tackles he’s your man, but we do lose a bit of slickness in the middle. Our strikers are struggling for form, and have all continually picked up knocks throughout the season. It’s been rare that any have started more than a couple of games on the spin. Strikers need a run to gain form and once they have their eye in it starts to happen naturally for them. The first half was much better yesterday, probably the best it’s been (with this formation) since pre Stoke, so for that I’m positive today and looking forward to the next 11 games. Chair constantly coming deep to collect the ball really worked well, it took the pressure off the likes of field having to play football when it clearly isn’t something they have in their locker. Anybody questioning chairs ability and importance to this team really have no clue about football and probably sit in the win at any cost camp and would rather see more bruise and less guile. Frankly, they’re supporting the wrong club and care little for our history over the past nearly 50 years. We’ve won sweet fa of note, and the only thing positive is us being entertained by some really exciting teams for periods. That’s the most you can hope for supporting this club, and the current crop have mostly delivered on the entertainment front. Maybe we’ll fall short, but maybe it’ll turn and we’ll make the late run. The fact that most expect us to be up there should be taken as a positive from where we were a few years ago. At least one team always makes a run, and on that note keep an eye on West Brom, cos that position is the most false in the league. Along with Huddersfield and Wilders ankle biters. We can look at their rise, but they need to sustain that high tempo game for another 13-14 matches. It ain’t over yet! Urrs |
Anybody questioning chairs ability and importance to this team really have no clue about football..........
I for one have never been surprised that we do not to appear to have had any significant bids for Chair from the bigger championship or premier league clubs. I have always thought he is vastly over-rated by a significant proportion of our fans.
For all his precise set pieces and workrate, he has not worked on or improved the fundamental flaws in his game.
If we are to get the best out of him for now, we need a fully fit and overlapping Wallace (or McCallum) and next season I'd be looking to invest in a left footed striker so when Chair does cut inside, as he invariably will do being a right-footed player on the left, he can play his preferred cut-back type pass to a forward who can take it on and shoot as per Wallace's chance yesterday.
Chair however is not our most immediate problem, that being Johanson's lost of form / fitness / energy and creative spark in the middle of the park, Dykes post Forest injury availability and form, and the lack of a 2nd striker to play with Dykes. | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 14:19 - Mar 6 with 956 views | daveB |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 11:13 - Mar 6 by Hunterhoop |
I wouldn’t disagree with that, Dave. But two things:
1) in that winning run, I do think we played the ball forward more quickly (often misplaced) because we had to because we had less of the ball. Those 3 Reading goals were examples of attacking quickly and playing it early. Adomah’s winner against Cov, a great cross earlier than the defence was expecting. I’m sure those with better memories can think of other goals.
2) we should be looking at what individual players actually available and the team as a whole could do better/differently to arrest the slump. Solutions not just problems.
In my view, attacking with more intent, crossing it or playing the through ball earlier, moving the ball more quickly, taking a few more risks in the final 3rd rather than playing backwards too much are all things that I think will help. This is pretty much in line with what Warburton has said.
Personally I think Chair is a player who could really benefit from doing the above. It would make him a better player and us a better team. Willock, for example, is much more direct in his play. That one chance we created in the second half was him playing it through early for Gray. Chair played the whole game and created very little, often because Cardiff could reset whilst he held onto it.
I think he’s a very good footballer. Lots of technical ability, but I do think he can improve and what I’m suggesting above isn’t hard. It’s a mentality thing. It’s not like asking him to get taller or quicker!
I felt the whole team, with Chair at its heart, came out second half with zero intent to try to score a second, which was/is immensely frustrating when we were playing a weaker side, 1 up, at home, attacking the Loft. Either Warburton instructed them to just try to control it OR they didn’t follow his instructions and played like that of their own accord. If the latter, they deserve criticism. |
I'd agree being slightly more direct (not in a long ball way) and get balls into the box quicker would be a big step forward for this team. Austin. Dykes and Gray have both been pretty poor for most of the season but all 3 would stand a much better chance of scoring if we did this
At times in the first half I thought we did that quite well and was the best I've seen us play for a while but as you say second half it felt like we were happy with 1-0 and the longer it went the more Cardiff grew into the game and looked a threat. We did absolutely nothing second half, game just passed us by
I'd love to say I have the answer, I thought the return of Chair and going back to 2 number 10's would see improved performances but it's been the the opposite.
I don't think a change of system is wise at this late stage of the season but do think a change of mindset is needed, Warbs hinted at this yesterday when he sounded angry about how we played that second half which is a tiny positive. They need to go to Luton next week with a strong attitude of we are not getting beat today, thats obviously very simplistic but that has to be the starting point and I've not seen enough of that recently. | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 16:20 - Mar 6 with 879 views | PinnerPaul |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 17:25 - Mar 5 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Reverted to the board's objective: Championship mediocrity forever. |
Yep bet they are rubbing their hands at losing over £1M per month forever! | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 16:32 - Mar 6 with 851 views | PinnerPaul |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 06:41 - Mar 6 by PastCaringNW2 |
Squad size is less of an issue than the large amount of player inactivity we seem to carry as a matter of course.
Of the 10 defenders listed as such on the web site - one is on loan, one is suspended, three rarely get a sniff and are presumably not trusted. Fortunately the problems are mainly at wingback but Lee Wallace, the player who does a lot to make our lop-sidedness work is of an age where he is going to be out 12-15 plus games a season. Which is where we have been of late.
Of the 12 midfield players listed as such - two never play, three are more often than not unavailable, one is off playing wing back or not starting and has played a lot of football in a very demanding position the last two years for a man of his age. Leaves six to fill four spots with a lot of interchangeability and not much X factor when Chair and WIllock are not near the top of their games.
Otherwise ....
A little too much pleasure taken in how pretty the "nearly" moments look and not enough determination to make them count. Very Arsenal circa Nasri, Wilshere and Chamakh.
The pressing, when it happens, is usually a one man effort, sporadic and futile unless the opposing goal keeper is especially useless with the ball at his feet and even then, however willing Amos or Field is to do the yards, there is a futility to it.
That said the biggest problem for me is that we do look very lopsided going forward.
There is very little creativity or forward drive from the pivot without Johansen and even then we end up sitting on the edge of the area passing, passing, passing, waiting for their errors / mental fatigue to open up an opportunity rather than forcing one. Which is surprising in front of this back three as you would think their stability would give at least one of those in front of them more licence to roam and carry the ball into the spaces ahead. A systemic fear of the turnover perhaps?
I do love Field and Johansen but none of our central players are exactly Barry Bannan and we effectively play without a centrally-focussed #10 in any case. Most of the 10-like passing seems to come (when it comes) from the back and the midfield have an allergy to shooting from range not shared by the three, lets be kind and say "somewhat over-confident", wayward sons who play behind them.
Speaking of options could Bonne have been brought back (if under a cloud)? A really good finisher half the time but with the capacity to miss all the "my Gran could have scored that" chances. Then again he is not alone in that at the moment.
Sitting in Nu I often find myself missing Pav "racing" towards us, blowing and sweating like the favourite in a steeplechase handicap. Oh to have that kind of option on the bench. Will we ever find out what Shodipo can do? Probably not.
Gray is quite possibly starting to be guilty of doing what a lot of loan players seem to do once the window is shut and their current deal is due to expire which is focussing on his own stats a wee bit and keeping out of trouble injury wise. Which might be fine and understandable (given what is presumably at stake for him personally) if he didn't keep wandering wide to join up with Willock and Chair leaving no one to poach. Another really nice finish though. Could be better in a two with Dykes though that does nothing for our creativity.
All that said there are better days ahead and I wouldn't bet against us picking up another 6 wins out the remaining games. Enough for top six? 50/50 at this stage. Would have taken that as the March prognosis back in August but a point in each of the last two would have been very handy. |
Yes I was going to post about our 'small' squad - if that's the case why does our match programme at every home game show our squad as bigger than oppos? | | | |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 22:26 - Mar 6 with 748 views | Damo1962 |
| Frankly, we got what we deserved today. on 12:25 - Mar 6 by ParkRoyalR |
Anybody questioning chairs ability and importance to this team really have no clue about football..........
I for one have never been surprised that we do not to appear to have had any significant bids for Chair from the bigger championship or premier league clubs. I have always thought he is vastly over-rated by a significant proportion of our fans.
For all his precise set pieces and workrate, he has not worked on or improved the fundamental flaws in his game.
If we are to get the best out of him for now, we need a fully fit and overlapping Wallace (or McCallum) and next season I'd be looking to invest in a left footed striker so when Chair does cut inside, as he invariably will do being a right-footed player on the left, he can play his preferred cut-back type pass to a forward who can take it on and shoot as per Wallace's chance yesterday.
Chair however is not our most immediate problem, that being Johanson's lost of form / fitness / energy and creative spark in the middle of the park, Dykes post Forest injury availability and form, and the lack of a 2nd striker to play with Dykes. |
Nail on head. Some of our supporters are guilty of over-rating a lot of our players in recent years. Maybe it's because we aren't in a position to have the really good players at the moment. Chair is good but limited...nothing more IMHO. Willock looks the real deal for me. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
