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Do those who advocate a democratically elected head of state actually think about what it means rather than simply I don’t want an hereditary head of state
If you had a written constitution you could have very strict limits as to the role played by an elected president.
The company I work for - whose HQ is in Scandinavia - scheduled its biggest customer and partner event of the year for 1st and 2nd June so it has a case of "What jubilee?" for me.
I'm currently at the baggage reclaim at Heathrow Airport....and have been for about 40 minutes.
Still, it could be worse, look at those poor sods in Ukraine 🇺🇦
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
How would changing to being a republic be brought about ? In Italy there was a plebiscite but that was following WW2. Unless the monarchy willingly gave up I don't understand how it could be realised. I suspect most people would vote for the status quo. No Status Quo reforming jokes please !
How would changing to being a republic be brought about ? In Italy there was a plebiscite but that was following WW2. Unless the monarchy willingly gave up I don't understand how it could be realised. I suspect most people would vote for the status quo. No Status Quo reforming jokes please !
It's a good question but I think you've answered it yourself: self-determination. A major change to the constitution of the country should only be done by plebiscite, as it was when the UK left the EU.
I don't think it'll happen any time soon though, but the percentage of the population that doesn't accept the monarchy is slowly growing, so who knows?
Of course, the choices of a monarchy or a republic are not the only ways society can organise itself but that's probably going too far for this discussion.
It's a good question but I think you've answered it yourself: self-determination. A major change to the constitution of the country should only be done by plebiscite, as it was when the UK left the EU.
I don't think it'll happen any time soon though, but the percentage of the population that doesn't accept the monarchy is slowly growing, so who knows?
Of course, the choices of a monarchy or a republic are not the only ways society can organise itself but that's probably going too far for this discussion.
It's more likely (on current trends) that multinational corporations and banks will dictate our futures, than politicians and monarchs.
digs, you must let us know who you are digging out. i'm english and proud. the history of our country is one to be proud of, thats why everyone wants to live over here. when the royal family ends, someone turn the lights out, in this once great country. because thats all we've got left.
when i go to every country on holiday/work, i respect the culture and laws of that place.
How would changing to being a republic be brought about ? In Italy there was a plebiscite but that was following WW2. Unless the monarchy willingly gave up I don't understand how it could be realised. I suspect most people would vote for the status quo. No Status Quo reforming jokes please !
Or, rather than a drastic switch to an elected President figure, just adopt the model that the Dutch and the Scandinavian countries have. Stop paying millions of taxpayers' money to enrich an extended and entitled Royal family, and let the core figures (King/Queen and next in line) get proper jobs and support themselves. Allow them free accommodation in one palace in London, in return for which they do a bit of ribbon-cutting and receiving visiting foreign heads of state. I expect that's where we'll get to eventually, anyway, but it could be greatly speeded up when William takes over.
Yes! The Shermans have got a written constitution - that's going well isn't it.
One of the first things The Founding Fathers asked when they booted out the Brits was "shall we have a King?" Rightly or wrongly they chose not to,but it was a close run thing apparently.
Once the Queen passes, it’ll will start to unravel from its current format.
As we’ve started to see with some Caribbean countries voting out the British monarchy, Australia, and Canada will do so within five years. Whereupon New Zealand and the rest will swiftly follow or look stupid if they don’t.
Then it will be for the UK to take a deep look at itself. I think they’ll be a huge pressure to massively streamline to survive, but the institution of monarchy will become less relevant with each passing year. The rate of ‘change’ will be linked to what Scotland does, and if/when it goes its own way, then I just cannot see them wanting Charles III as their figurehead (not sure who does to be fair). To be frank, I think William will be the last monarch we know in the traditional sense.
Whatever happens, if constitutional change cometh, then one hopes it’s bloodless and organic in its nature. At this stage, I’d happily settle for: the complete overhaul of the House of Lords, into a second governmental chamber based on proportional voting as opposed to party patronage; cease the nobility positions i.e. Lords, Earls etc.; and the Royal family constituting the monarch and immediate heirs only.
Thing is, while we may clamour for an elected Head of State, it’s hard to look beyond the current incumbent for a better candidate. I suspect she’ll be a hard act for the next three post-holders to follow, whether they assume office by birth right or elected by the people.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Australia's new PM has this week quietly installed a 'Minister for the Republic' whilst still lighting a Canberra beacon in honour of the Queen and trotting out some clearly less than heartfelt congratulations. In his own words, should he win a second term another Republic referendum will be on the table. Personally, I think his timing stinks and shows him up as quite the weasel. I tell you, there's nothing like living in the colonies for hardening a man's Royalist leanings, despite having previously been more towards the Republican side of the argument.
Once the Queen passes, it’ll will start to unravel from its current format.
As we’ve started to see with some Caribbean countries voting out the British monarchy, Australia, and Canada will do so within five years. Whereupon New Zealand and the rest will swiftly follow or look stupid if they don’t.
Then it will be for the UK to take a deep look at itself. I think they’ll be a huge pressure to massively streamline to survive, but the institution of monarchy will become less relevant with each passing year. The rate of ‘change’ will be linked to what Scotland does, and if/when it goes its own way, then I just cannot see them wanting Charles III as their figurehead (not sure who does to be fair). To be frank, I think William will be the last monarch we know in the traditional sense.
Whatever happens, if constitutional change cometh, then one hopes it’s bloodless and organic in its nature. At this stage, I’d happily settle for: the complete overhaul of the House of Lords, into a second governmental chamber based on proportional voting as opposed to party patronage; cease the nobility positions i.e. Lords, Earls etc.; and the Royal family constituting the monarch and immediate heirs only.
Thing is, while we may clamour for an elected Head of State, it’s hard to look beyond the current incumbent for a better candidate. I suspect she’ll be a hard act for the next three post-holders to follow, whether they assume office by birth right or elected by the people.
well thought out post.
First of all, to those who support the monarchy, enjoy the long weekend. For those who don't, there's a time and a place for everything, we don't always have to be the one's trying to spoil the party.
I find myself in an interesting place politically. On the traditional left, but totally turned off by the pervasive mantra of identity politics, utterly divisive and surely an extension of capitalism, neo-liberalism and the age of self.
So while my go-to polemicist is Chris Hedges, at the moment I am reading Douglas Murray's 'the strange death of europe'. I may not like what he has to say, but some of it hits home.
So where is the balance between my imagined utopia and what we have, what is achievable. Demand the impossible, maybe, but retain a platform to stand on. Where will the fall of our institutions, within the current mindset, leave us?
I was in Australia for their referendum on the monarchy, they voted to retain it, some for the history etc, others for worry of president howard.
So, I like your, and Glory Hunter's, middle ground. And it doesn't mean we can't have a written constitution, we can do what we want.
And, while I may not like the institution and how it enforces the social order, I think the Queen has been an admirable head of state, as far as these things go.
One further little point. We abhor child poverty - of course we do. So we look at the money spent on the royal family. While going to football, supporting an industry that spunks god knows how much on players and wages. And watch the latest hollywood blockbuster, or episode of stranger things. As far as the entertainment industry side of things go, the royal family plc may actually be cost effective.
First of all, to those who support the monarchy, enjoy the long weekend. For those who don't, there's a time and a place for everything, we don't always have to be the one's trying to spoil the party.
I find myself in an interesting place politically. On the traditional left, but totally turned off by the pervasive mantra of identity politics, utterly divisive and surely an extension of capitalism, neo-liberalism and the age of self.
So while my go-to polemicist is Chris Hedges, at the moment I am reading Douglas Murray's 'the strange death of europe'. I may not like what he has to say, but some of it hits home.
So where is the balance between my imagined utopia and what we have, what is achievable. Demand the impossible, maybe, but retain a platform to stand on. Where will the fall of our institutions, within the current mindset, leave us?
I was in Australia for their referendum on the monarchy, they voted to retain it, some for the history etc, others for worry of president howard.
So, I like your, and Glory Hunter's, middle ground. And it doesn't mean we can't have a written constitution, we can do what we want.
And, while I may not like the institution and how it enforces the social order, I think the Queen has been an admirable head of state, as far as these things go.
One further little point. We abhor child poverty - of course we do. So we look at the money spent on the royal family. While going to football, supporting an industry that spunks god knows how much on players and wages. And watch the latest hollywood blockbuster, or episode of stranger things. As far as the entertainment industry side of things go, the royal family plc may actually be cost effective.
peace.
Great post either way the party is now over or at least I think it is.
My thoughts/opinions are still the same as previously posted.
Anyway It's bloody raining right now and my plans for the day was to sit in the garden and play Pink Floyd's 'Brain Damage' and 'Wish You Were Here' on the acoustic and let the world go by and do what ever....................
Like you say.
Peace.
My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.
Great post either way the party is now over or at least I think it is.
My thoughts/opinions are still the same as previously posted.
Anyway It's bloody raining right now and my plans for the day was to sit in the garden and play Pink Floyd's 'Brain Damage' and 'Wish You Were Here' on the acoustic and let the world go by and do what ever....................
Like you say.
Peace.
ah, the sun is out here, first day's racing for the TT.
So, been outside with a coffee, enjoying the scent of the magnificent Spanish broom that grows in my garden. Going to take a long coastal walk with the dog, sidecars at 3, local bands playing tonight.
Once a year, but for the first time in 3 years, the IOM is where it's at!
First of all, to those who support the monarchy, enjoy the long weekend. For those who don't, there's a time and a place for everything, we don't always have to be the one's trying to spoil the party.
I find myself in an interesting place politically. On the traditional left, but totally turned off by the pervasive mantra of identity politics, utterly divisive and surely an extension of capitalism, neo-liberalism and the age of self.
So while my go-to polemicist is Chris Hedges, at the moment I am reading Douglas Murray's 'the strange death of europe'. I may not like what he has to say, but some of it hits home.
So where is the balance between my imagined utopia and what we have, what is achievable. Demand the impossible, maybe, but retain a platform to stand on. Where will the fall of our institutions, within the current mindset, leave us?
I was in Australia for their referendum on the monarchy, they voted to retain it, some for the history etc, others for worry of president howard.
So, I like your, and Glory Hunter's, middle ground. And it doesn't mean we can't have a written constitution, we can do what we want.
And, while I may not like the institution and how it enforces the social order, I think the Queen has been an admirable head of state, as far as these things go.
One further little point. We abhor child poverty - of course we do. So we look at the money spent on the royal family. While going to football, supporting an industry that spunks god knows how much on players and wages. And watch the latest hollywood blockbuster, or episode of stranger things. As far as the entertainment industry side of things go, the royal family plc may actually be cost effective.
peace.
I appreciate your thoughtful post, disortR, and you ask good wider questions. But keeping to the issue at hand, abolishing the monarchy would require a change of constitution, something many think is well overdue, particularly since Brexit. It would certainly be an upheaval but more importantly it could/should be one that helped protect citizens' freedoms, ensure the separation and independence of powers and point a way out of Britain's stale and antiquated way of doing things.
A new constitution wouldn't be a panacea for all the ills facing us, but it would at least be a good start.
I appreciate your thoughtful post, disortR, and you ask good wider questions. But keeping to the issue at hand, abolishing the monarchy would require a change of constitution, something many think is well overdue, particularly since Brexit. It would certainly be an upheaval but more importantly it could/should be one that helped protect citizens' freedoms, ensure the separation and independence of powers and point a way out of Britain's stale and antiquated way of doing things.
A new constitution wouldn't be a panacea for all the ills facing us, but it would at least be a good start.
Well, it's a minefield.
'Protect citizen's freedoms" for a start.
The current debate over freedom of speech shows how difficult this will be, with the narrative of the day possibly over-riding longterm considerations. Where will the whims of history leave us?
But citizen, yes!
I'll leave you with a bit of Leatherface while I disappear for the days entertainment!
As noted on page one of this thread….. no surprises here at all.
Standard approach. Usual people. Repetitive agenda.
I’ve been invited to a neighbouring street party just now and as the old walking not too bad I’m really happy to be popping along. Be nice to meet some new neighbours, have a chat, raise a glass to good old Madge and avoid the fun vacuums and embittered political posturing tvvats who’ll be a million miles from such a celebration (one would hope)
Happy and Glorious
You seem to be challenging for pole wrt repetition.
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