| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. 23:07 - Mar 19 with 22307 views | A40Bosh |
1hr of sensible questions without prior notice
5mins at the end with Finney blabbering on trying to ask a question which Ben Williams never really understood until someone else had to step in.
Doubters will no doubt…. Doubt
Haters are gonna hate.
Make your own mind up if you want to sit through and listen to an 1hr of sports science
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:02 - Mar 20 with 2795 views | MrsJeff |
So full disclosure, I was on the panel for this which after the awaydays pod on Sat was unexpected...
You'll all make your own minds up about what you hear, but to me the way the stats are used and communicated is the key problem. It's clear that Ben comes from a more scientific background and also from sports where the fanbase are more interested in data points - cycling fans might know the VO2max of their favourite rider but that's not what championship football is about.
In my opinion the club made a big mistake using quantitative information to defend qualitative comments in the early days instead of addressing them head on, and that's why we're now spending 20 mins getting into the weeds about what 89.4% availability between August and February actually means. That didn't actually answer the question that was being asked which is "why do we seem to have so many injuries"! Answering with statistics that don't seem to pass the eye test alienated people where just saying "yeah it's a lot, we need to figure out how to improve it, the boffins behind the scenes are on it" would have gone a lot further.
Data is a tool, and like all tools when you use it for the right job it can improve your life but when you use it for the wrong job it causes damage that takes forever to fix. Case in point, the number of people on this thread who have come on just to say they're not even going to listen to it because they don't trust anything the club say - it's going to take a lot to repair that.
I agree with ozexile - the breadth of his scope is pretty remarkable, I really hadn't appreciated that before.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:09 - Mar 20 with 2742 views | Hunterhoop |
The major problem with all this data reasoning by Williams and Nourry is that is it people marking their own homework.
Surprise surprise, the bloke responsible for our injury record, and also for the data analysis of our injuries and availabilities, says “the data shows I’m doing a good job”. Well, knock me down with a feather. Can you believe it?
They genuinely must have such little respect for fans’ intelligence. They must think we were born yesterday. Admittedly, the fans who seem to buy their words were born more recently.
The club isn’t going to progress if the people at the top are only focused on persuading everyone they are doing a good job, rather than focusing on how they can do a better job.
Now, they may say, “We are! Just behind the scenes.” In which case, tell us that! Don’t tell us how the data actually says that, in spite of having 9 first teamers at one time and several missing 3+ months, we’ve actually good availability!
And that’s without getting onto fitness and conditioning.
The bloke is a fraud. Anyone who marks their own homework can make themselves look good.
Also, throwing the blame at Stephan for not picking them tells you where the discord is behind the scenes. |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:10 - Mar 20 with 2733 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:02 - Mar 20 by MrsJeff |
So full disclosure, I was on the panel for this which after the awaydays pod on Sat was unexpected...
You'll all make your own minds up about what you hear, but to me the way the stats are used and communicated is the key problem. It's clear that Ben comes from a more scientific background and also from sports where the fanbase are more interested in data points - cycling fans might know the VO2max of their favourite rider but that's not what championship football is about.
In my opinion the club made a big mistake using quantitative information to defend qualitative comments in the early days instead of addressing them head on, and that's why we're now spending 20 mins getting into the weeds about what 89.4% availability between August and February actually means. That didn't actually answer the question that was being asked which is "why do we seem to have so many injuries"! Answering with statistics that don't seem to pass the eye test alienated people where just saying "yeah it's a lot, we need to figure out how to improve it, the boffins behind the scenes are on it" would have gone a lot further.
Data is a tool, and like all tools when you use it for the right job it can improve your life but when you use it for the wrong job it causes damage that takes forever to fix. Case in point, the number of people on this thread who have come on just to say they're not even going to listen to it because they don't trust anything the club say - it's going to take a lot to repair that.
I agree with ozexile - the breadth of his scope is pretty remarkable, I really hadn't appreciated that before.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
First of all, thanks to you all for doing this. It's important to hear him speak.
I've listened to it, I'll listen to it again, and I've also sent it to two expert sports scientists for their honest opinions. It will be interesting to hear their thoughts. |  |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:13 - Mar 20 with 2705 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:02 - Mar 20 by MrsJeff |
So full disclosure, I was on the panel for this which after the awaydays pod on Sat was unexpected...
You'll all make your own minds up about what you hear, but to me the way the stats are used and communicated is the key problem. It's clear that Ben comes from a more scientific background and also from sports where the fanbase are more interested in data points - cycling fans might know the VO2max of their favourite rider but that's not what championship football is about.
In my opinion the club made a big mistake using quantitative information to defend qualitative comments in the early days instead of addressing them head on, and that's why we're now spending 20 mins getting into the weeds about what 89.4% availability between August and February actually means. That didn't actually answer the question that was being asked which is "why do we seem to have so many injuries"! Answering with statistics that don't seem to pass the eye test alienated people where just saying "yeah it's a lot, we need to figure out how to improve it, the boffins behind the scenes are on it" would have gone a lot further.
Data is a tool, and like all tools when you use it for the right job it can improve your life but when you use it for the wrong job it causes damage that takes forever to fix. Case in point, the number of people on this thread who have come on just to say they're not even going to listen to it because they don't trust anything the club say - it's going to take a lot to repair that.
I agree with ozexile - the breadth of his scope is pretty remarkable, I really hadn't appreciated that before.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
True. But the breadth of his scope according to him is bigger and more senior than it is according to other people in the club who would know.
Everything, absolutely everything, Williams and Nourry do and say is about painting them in the best light and progressing their careers (to bigger and better football clubs). The club’s best interests are a distant second behind their personal interests. How they act and everything they say reinforces this, in my opinion. | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:17 - Mar 20 with 2664 views | QPunkR |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:13 - Mar 20 by Hunterhoop |
True. But the breadth of his scope according to him is bigger and more senior than it is according to other people in the club who would know.
Everything, absolutely everything, Williams and Nourry do and say is about painting them in the best light and progressing their careers (to bigger and better football clubs). The club’s best interests are a distant second behind their personal interests. How they act and everything they say reinforces this, in my opinion. |
The sooner they move on to bigger football clubs, the better |  |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:20 - Mar 20 with 2644 views | ozexile |
I'll have to listen again too. However 2 points stuck out for me that irked me.
Unless I misheard it he said it takes 8 weeks to get a cardiovascular adaptation in training.? Having run a cardio based business for nearly 20 years if he did say that it's false. I'm glad the girl pulled him up on it too by asking what base they were starting from.
And secondly he's recently been going into maintenance meetings on electrics or hydraulics?
Spare me. It's a madhouse.
Get the players fit and get them playing. That should be your only purpose. [Post edited 20 Mar 11:24]
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:24 - Mar 20 with 2631 views | MrsJeff |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:20 - Mar 20 by ozexile |
I'll have to listen again too. However 2 points stuck out for me that irked me.
Unless I misheard it he said it takes 8 weeks to get a cardiovascular adaptation in training.? Having run a cardio based business for nearly 20 years if he did say that it's false. I'm glad the girl pulled him up on it too by asking what base they were starting from.
And secondly he's recently been going into maintenance meetings on electrics or hydraulics?
Spare me. It's a madhouse.
Get the players fit and get them playing. That should be your only purpose. [Post edited 20 Mar 11:24]
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Yeah I wondered if anyone else would pick up on that. Out of interest Oz what do you do? (I'm the girl btw, and an endurance sport fan when I'm not participating in the endurance sport of following QPR) | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:26 - Mar 20 with 2619 views | TheChef |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:17 - Mar 20 by QPunkR |
The sooner they move on to bigger football clubs, the better |
They think they can pull the wool over the eyes of bigger football clubs that will hire them??
Good luck with that! |  |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:26 - Mar 20 with 2615 views | wombat |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:13 - Mar 20 by Hunterhoop |
True. But the breadth of his scope according to him is bigger and more senior than it is according to other people in the club who would know.
Everything, absolutely everything, Williams and Nourry do and say is about painting them in the best light and progressing their careers (to bigger and better football clubs). The club’s best interests are a distant second behind their personal interests. How they act and everything they say reinforces this, in my opinion. |
its two people totally and utterly out of the depth doing jobs neither of them have a clue how to do them williams dealing with the groundstaff being one of them he quoted about the awful weather , sorry but as well know november was the driest on record and the pitch was dead well before it rained for a full month ,
what does he know about pitches ?
away travel ?
think he mentioned health and safety for the ground as well
ive had the feeling on the sudden influx of aussie players and the possible buying of an aussie club that nourry seems himself running them after leaving us , probably taking williams with him . as his plus 1 .
he will prob listen to it and think i did a good job with that interview today |  |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:27 - Mar 20 with 2604 views | daveB |
Fair play to Jas, Saffa and Finney for trying to get answers from him.
I'm about half way through but am finding it very frustrating. Lost of talk with very little actual answers.
I find it staggering that the message was about how good our player availability is. Just complete bullshit saying Poku wasn't picked due to the manager, he was recovering from a hamstring injury which is why he played in the development team.
10% missing of 28 players is basically 3 players. First half of the season we had Walsh, Chair, JCS, Poku, Frey and Vale all had long spells out and thats just off the top of my head.
To continue the laughable claim that Burrell was a contact injury, we all have bloody eyes. He's torn a hamstring stretching for a ball.
Also find it amusing he went on about the 90% availability but conveniently didn't mention what the availability has been since Sheffield Wednesday because it's a lot less than 90% now. It's all about how you use data and they keep using it to suit their narrative rather than looking for something that can help.
If they won't accept there is a problem it will keep happening
It's important to follow science and he sounds very good at that but it feels like we lack people around this who know how to deal with people, there is more to football than data |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:43 - Mar 20 with 2540 views | ozexile |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:24 - Mar 20 by MrsJeff |
Yeah I wondered if anyone else would pick up on that. Out of interest Oz what do you do? (I'm the girl btw, and an endurance sport fan when I'm not participating in the endurance sport of following QPR) |
I run a fitness business in Sydney. Running classes. Weights classes etc. you asked a very good question about what base they are starting from. I was yelling at the stereo asking the same question., | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:46 - Mar 20 with 2520 views | KensalT |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:10 - Mar 20 by BrianMcCarthy |
First of all, thanks to you all for doing this. It's important to hear him speak.
I've listened to it, I'll listen to it again, and I've also sent it to two expert sports scientists for their honest opinions. It will be interesting to hear their thoughts. |
I look forward to hearing that Brian.
However, without wanting to pre-empt them, I think data people have a tendency to have too much faith in data.
Data doesn't have all the answers, and even if it did you need to ask the right questions. And to ask the right questions you need to understand the environment you are working in and the environment in which the data is collected.
For that reason I would also be interested to know what anyone with football playing or coaching experience thought of the Williams interview and how much confidence they would have in what he is saying. |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:52 - Mar 20 with 2500 views | dmm |
It was an interesting listen, but I didn't learn as much as I would have liked.
Williams sounded quite insecure and sometimes pretty defensive but perhaps that's understandable given he's got a fair amount to be insecure and defensive about. And that's not because the questions were aggressive; they weren't. I wish the questions had been a bit more pointed, such as asking about a certain young player to whom we hear Williams has taken a dislike.
For me, the bottom line is that with all the improvements Williams talked about, we remain an average Championship side. For someone with such a senior role at the club, that must be the ultimate measure by which he is judged. |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:00 - Mar 20 with 2457 views | nadera78 |
The Poku thing is nonsensical, but it actually clarifies something about Williams and by extension Nourry. Williams looks at Poku being back on the training pitch with the rest of the squad and decides he's capable of playing, but the coach (and anyone who knows anything about football) realises he might be fit but still needs game time in the DS to get his rhythm back. Shock horror - there's a difference between training and playing!
It just serves to emphasis in my mind that the two most senior people at the club don't actually know anything about football. | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:11 - Mar 20 with 2379 views | TK1 |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:46 - Mar 20 by KensalT |
I look forward to hearing that Brian.
However, without wanting to pre-empt them, I think data people have a tendency to have too much faith in data.
Data doesn't have all the answers, and even if it did you need to ask the right questions. And to ask the right questions you need to understand the environment you are working in and the environment in which the data is collected.
For that reason I would also be interested to know what anyone with football playing or coaching experience thought of the Williams interview and how much confidence they would have in what he is saying. |
Yes, what I think QPR desperately needs is exactly that, "football playing or coaching experience" at board level, or at the level between board and club. There's nobody near that with it. It's business guys, billionaires, data wiz-kids etc. No football people. Nobody there to say, 'Hang on. That's bollocks.'
When Ferdinand and, yes, Hoos used to address us in times of crisis like this on pods or official channels, it used to reassure me to a degree. I'd hear it from their perspective and feel somewhat becalmed, I'd understand the issues and reasoning. Might not always agree, but did believe they were acting honestly in the club's interest and always to the best of their ability.
I feel the reverse each time I hear Nourry, particularly Williams and now even Hoos address us. The BS is so pungent and insulting it's practically a hoax. Like, this can't be real. You want us to believe...this?
Speak frankly. Stop lying. Please.
If I was Ruben (if I was Ruben!) I would make Hoos take up the CEO role again, and if he didn't want to I'd replace him, Nourry becomes a Sporting Director, Williams gets a carriage clock, and Andy Sinton becomes Chairman. Let's have some accountability, some football know-how and duty of care, please.
(different candidates available for each role of course) | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:14 - Mar 20 with 2346 views | BeauRanger |
Many thanks to all who put this together, it’s good to try to have an open& direct dialogue between the club & fans, for people to make their own minds up about it.
A few things occur to me, having listened to it..
Ben Williams concedes he’s not used to dealing directly with fans & doing podcasts, interviews etc. His answers (again which he concedes) aren’t always succinct & directly address points raised in a concise manner. He’s a scientist & his language reflects that.
When asked about the condition of the pitch & if it contributed to the injuries, he compared it to league 1 or 2 club pitches & stated there was no extrapolation of injuries caused by these presumably poorer pitches. Why compare with leagues 1& 2, is that the level of budget or expertise they have for it. Shouldn’t he be comparing with Championship clubs?
Regarding comms around injuries, which again he admitted could improve. He makes a valid point about levels of confidentiality & GDPR etc, but there has to be a happy medium between the current void of information regarding injured players EG Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc. I appreciate things change (for good or bad) with injury & estimated recovery, but a more regular update with what can be shared would be good for fans. Rather than the absolute silence around some players.
As mentioned would be good to have follow up episodes with him to discuss progress.. |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:26 - Mar 20 with 2265 views | thehat |
Well done guys getting him on the Pod and good that he has come out to speak to the fans.
However the dribble I heard falls under the phrase "lies, dammed lies and statistics"
My own eyes tell me some of these players lack stamina, slowness over short sprints, and mental desire compared to the vast majority of our opponents and that's without the excessive injuries we have had yet again this season.
Sorry Ben the buck stops with you and we are way short of where we need to be. | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:26 - Mar 20 with 2265 views | Northernr |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:11 - Mar 20 by TK1 |
Yes, what I think QPR desperately needs is exactly that, "football playing or coaching experience" at board level, or at the level between board and club. There's nobody near that with it. It's business guys, billionaires, data wiz-kids etc. No football people. Nobody there to say, 'Hang on. That's bollocks.'
When Ferdinand and, yes, Hoos used to address us in times of crisis like this on pods or official channels, it used to reassure me to a degree. I'd hear it from their perspective and feel somewhat becalmed, I'd understand the issues and reasoning. Might not always agree, but did believe they were acting honestly in the club's interest and always to the best of their ability.
I feel the reverse each time I hear Nourry, particularly Williams and now even Hoos address us. The BS is so pungent and insulting it's practically a hoax. Like, this can't be real. You want us to believe...this?
Speak frankly. Stop lying. Please.
If I was Ruben (if I was Ruben!) I would make Hoos take up the CEO role again, and if he didn't want to I'd replace him, Nourry becomes a Sporting Director, Williams gets a carriage clock, and Andy Sinton becomes Chairman. Let's have some accountability, some football know-how and duty of care, please.
(different candidates available for each role of course) |
Yeh, I've just run round Greenwich Park listening to this, and some of it is absolutely infuriating.
We lost four players in the first half of of our least competitive game of the season when the pitch was at its worst. Ben says that's entirely incidental/coincidental. Ten minutes later he's talking about how we measure our training pitch and Loftus Road pitch in a million different ways - temperature, moisture, ball roll, bounce, hardness etc - to get them exactly the same because it effects push off, impact etc. So, which is it?
I think the question that was left hanging when he's talking about Mike, who came from sprint sports, and has completely re-written our "speed model", whatever the fck that is, is... it hasn't worked has it? The squad's dead. The season's been destroyed by injuries. He sounds great, very convincing, for long periods of time, until I remember we've got a game tomorrow and half the squad is missing for it. This all sounds great but... it hasn't worked has it?
Again sticking to this idea that we had fantastic availability through the first half of the season, despite the Larkeche, Chair, Poku, Frey, Clarke-Salter absences. Saffa sits there and lists the players who missed the first half of the season, and he just repeats the number back to him. It's BS. "Oh, we didn't include Larkeche in the stats". So, we've got great availability, apart from the players who are unavailable? Come on now. Come on.
However, on the positives
- They're talking to us. This should be encouraged. They should do it much more, and I'm well aware that wnkrs like me pulling it apart won't help with that but you'll get far more buy in and empathy if you just speak to people.
- He admitted they'd got stuff wrong, specifically with Poku and Chair. That's a good step forward for me. I haven't heard any of them admit a mistake or apologise for anything before. Again, people will go with you a lot more if you own up. His other comments about how brilliant the club are at holding up a mirror to itself are complete bolox, but, baby steps.
- He didn't get as far as apologising for his cack handed 'favourite players' comment at the fan forum, but he did say he's not the best public speaker, hasn't been used to doing interviews etc, and I think that's fair enough you do have to understand some people are better at that stuff than others.
- These interviews were booked in before Leicester, so they were willing to front up at a really difficult time, which is to be commended.
- He admitted the coms needs looking at.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. (n/t) on 12:47 - Mar 20 with 2146 views | SamQPRWallace |
Patronising and answering like a politician most of the time. Appreciate he can't talk about individuals medical history etc but could have given an indication if we may see Chair again this season.
https://partridge.cloud/scene/ [Post edited 20 Mar 12:51]
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:56 - Mar 20 with 2087 views | WestminsteRs |
Most importantly, when am I going to be able to see all my favourite players? |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:06 - Mar 20 with 2025 views | JamesB1979 |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:26 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
Yeh, I've just run round Greenwich Park listening to this, and some of it is absolutely infuriating.
We lost four players in the first half of of our least competitive game of the season when the pitch was at its worst. Ben says that's entirely incidental/coincidental. Ten minutes later he's talking about how we measure our training pitch and Loftus Road pitch in a million different ways - temperature, moisture, ball roll, bounce, hardness etc - to get them exactly the same because it effects push off, impact etc. So, which is it?
I think the question that was left hanging when he's talking about Mike, who came from sprint sports, and has completely re-written our "speed model", whatever the fck that is, is... it hasn't worked has it? The squad's dead. The season's been destroyed by injuries. He sounds great, very convincing, for long periods of time, until I remember we've got a game tomorrow and half the squad is missing for it. This all sounds great but... it hasn't worked has it?
Again sticking to this idea that we had fantastic availability through the first half of the season, despite the Larkeche, Chair, Poku, Frey, Clarke-Salter absences. Saffa sits there and lists the players who missed the first half of the season, and he just repeats the number back to him. It's BS. "Oh, we didn't include Larkeche in the stats". So, we've got great availability, apart from the players who are unavailable? Come on now. Come on.
However, on the positives
- They're talking to us. This should be encouraged. They should do it much more, and I'm well aware that wnkrs like me pulling it apart won't help with that but you'll get far more buy in and empathy if you just speak to people.
- He admitted they'd got stuff wrong, specifically with Poku and Chair. That's a good step forward for me. I haven't heard any of them admit a mistake or apologise for anything before. Again, people will go with you a lot more if you own up. His other comments about how brilliant the club are at holding up a mirror to itself are complete bolox, but, baby steps.
- He didn't get as far as apologising for his cack handed 'favourite players' comment at the fan forum, but he did say he's not the best public speaker, hasn't been used to doing interviews etc, and I think that's fair enough you do have to understand some people are better at that stuff than others.
- These interviews were booked in before Leicester, so they were willing to front up at a really difficult time, which is to be commended.
- He admitted the coms needs looking at.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
All very fair and balanced Clive.
For me, admitting that they have got things wrong is a big step. For me, the killer is the injuries to Burrell, Madsen, Poku and Chair. With them available we could have been around playoffs now.
With Poku - he basically admits they got that wrong. New player, new league. Ok, I kind of get it.
Most importantly he says after a big pause….”there were times maybe when we could have stepped in” Without referencing the other 3 directly, to me that is related to these 3 being played too much and they should have been louder in their view on this and not let it carry on. | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:27 - Mar 20 with 1932 views | MrsJeff |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:26 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
Yeh, I've just run round Greenwich Park listening to this, and some of it is absolutely infuriating.
We lost four players in the first half of of our least competitive game of the season when the pitch was at its worst. Ben says that's entirely incidental/coincidental. Ten minutes later he's talking about how we measure our training pitch and Loftus Road pitch in a million different ways - temperature, moisture, ball roll, bounce, hardness etc - to get them exactly the same because it effects push off, impact etc. So, which is it?
I think the question that was left hanging when he's talking about Mike, who came from sprint sports, and has completely re-written our "speed model", whatever the fck that is, is... it hasn't worked has it? The squad's dead. The season's been destroyed by injuries. He sounds great, very convincing, for long periods of time, until I remember we've got a game tomorrow and half the squad is missing for it. This all sounds great but... it hasn't worked has it?
Again sticking to this idea that we had fantastic availability through the first half of the season, despite the Larkeche, Chair, Poku, Frey, Clarke-Salter absences. Saffa sits there and lists the players who missed the first half of the season, and he just repeats the number back to him. It's BS. "Oh, we didn't include Larkeche in the stats". So, we've got great availability, apart from the players who are unavailable? Come on now. Come on.
However, on the positives
- They're talking to us. This should be encouraged. They should do it much more, and I'm well aware that wnkrs like me pulling it apart won't help with that but you'll get far more buy in and empathy if you just speak to people.
- He admitted they'd got stuff wrong, specifically with Poku and Chair. That's a good step forward for me. I haven't heard any of them admit a mistake or apologise for anything before. Again, people will go with you a lot more if you own up. His other comments about how brilliant the club are at holding up a mirror to itself are complete bolox, but, baby steps.
- He didn't get as far as apologising for his cack handed 'favourite players' comment at the fan forum, but he did say he's not the best public speaker, hasn't been used to doing interviews etc, and I think that's fair enough you do have to understand some people are better at that stuff than others.
- These interviews were booked in before Leicester, so they were willing to front up at a really difficult time, which is to be commended.
- He admitted the coms needs looking at.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Yeah, that's a fair cop and agree there were a couple of missed opportunities for follow ups - I also spotted that Larkeche wasn't included in the named 28 man squad and therefore doesn't count as one of the unavailables, but that didn't square up with how Poku features as a dev squad player, and should have asked for clarity on that. When there's not been enough contact between fans and club over such a long time it leaves a huge backlog of questions to squeeze into a single interview. Here's hoping that means we get a bit more! | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:35 - Mar 20 with 1890 views | Superhoops2808 |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:02 - Mar 20 by MrsJeff |
So full disclosure, I was on the panel for this which after the awaydays pod on Sat was unexpected...
You'll all make your own minds up about what you hear, but to me the way the stats are used and communicated is the key problem. It's clear that Ben comes from a more scientific background and also from sports where the fanbase are more interested in data points - cycling fans might know the VO2max of their favourite rider but that's not what championship football is about.
In my opinion the club made a big mistake using quantitative information to defend qualitative comments in the early days instead of addressing them head on, and that's why we're now spending 20 mins getting into the weeds about what 89.4% availability between August and February actually means. That didn't actually answer the question that was being asked which is "why do we seem to have so many injuries"! Answering with statistics that don't seem to pass the eye test alienated people where just saying "yeah it's a lot, we need to figure out how to improve it, the boffins behind the scenes are on it" would have gone a lot further.
Data is a tool, and like all tools when you use it for the right job it can improve your life but when you use it for the wrong job it causes damage that takes forever to fix. Case in point, the number of people on this thread who have come on just to say they're not even going to listen to it because they don't trust anything the club say - it's going to take a lot to repair that.
I agree with ozexile - the breadth of his scope is pretty remarkable, I really hadn't appreciated that before.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Thank you Mrs Jeff for the breakdown and thoughts, especially with your background of endurance sport (which I can confirm is indeed huge!!)
I still believe that despite his knowledge he is a lot of what's wrong with our club and maybe that is because his remit is so huge and having such an overview is why things are going so wrong especially in terms of the long term injuries. I wonder if he learns from the mistakes that have been clearly made these last few seasons. I do hope so.
Anyway, keep up the great work with the LFW podcasts and the endurance running
P.S: Mrs Superhoops (aka Michelle) says thanks for the advice re this coming weekends run
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:40 - Mar 20 with 1869 views | Superhoop83 |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:26 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
Yeh, I've just run round Greenwich Park listening to this, and some of it is absolutely infuriating.
We lost four players in the first half of of our least competitive game of the season when the pitch was at its worst. Ben says that's entirely incidental/coincidental. Ten minutes later he's talking about how we measure our training pitch and Loftus Road pitch in a million different ways - temperature, moisture, ball roll, bounce, hardness etc - to get them exactly the same because it effects push off, impact etc. So, which is it?
I think the question that was left hanging when he's talking about Mike, who came from sprint sports, and has completely re-written our "speed model", whatever the fck that is, is... it hasn't worked has it? The squad's dead. The season's been destroyed by injuries. He sounds great, very convincing, for long periods of time, until I remember we've got a game tomorrow and half the squad is missing for it. This all sounds great but... it hasn't worked has it?
Again sticking to this idea that we had fantastic availability through the first half of the season, despite the Larkeche, Chair, Poku, Frey, Clarke-Salter absences. Saffa sits there and lists the players who missed the first half of the season, and he just repeats the number back to him. It's BS. "Oh, we didn't include Larkeche in the stats". So, we've got great availability, apart from the players who are unavailable? Come on now. Come on.
However, on the positives
- They're talking to us. This should be encouraged. They should do it much more, and I'm well aware that wnkrs like me pulling it apart won't help with that but you'll get far more buy in and empathy if you just speak to people.
- He admitted they'd got stuff wrong, specifically with Poku and Chair. That's a good step forward for me. I haven't heard any of them admit a mistake or apologise for anything before. Again, people will go with you a lot more if you own up. His other comments about how brilliant the club are at holding up a mirror to itself are complete bolox, but, baby steps.
- He didn't get as far as apologising for his cack handed 'favourite players' comment at the fan forum, but he did say he's not the best public speaker, hasn't been used to doing interviews etc, and I think that's fair enough you do have to understand some people are better at that stuff than others.
- These interviews were booked in before Leicester, so they were willing to front up at a really difficult time, which is to be commended.
- He admitted the coms needs looking at.
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What did he say/admit about Poku and Chair?
I listened to the first 20 minutes but I'm not sure I can make it through the rest of it. |  |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:43 - Mar 20 with 1856 views | bosh67 |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:33 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures, most of which can never possibly be proved one way or the other, and then if you say 'come on, we can all see Poku, Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc have been out for months and injuries have killed our season' then you're told you're speaking "anecdotally" and what you're saying isn't backed up by "the data". |
"One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures..."
I'm sure 94.735% on us would probably agree with this. |  |
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