Forum | Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. by A40Bosh

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Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. 23:07 - Mar 19 with 22371 views

1hr of sensible questions without prior notice
5mins at the end with Finney blabbering on trying to ask a question which Ben Williams never really understood until someone else had to step in.

Doubters will no doubt…. Doubt
Haters are gonna hate.

Make your own mind up if you want to sit through and listen to an 1hr of sports science

Poll:

With no leg room, knees killing me, do I just go now or stay for the 2nd half o?

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 23:06 - Mar 20 with 3328 views

PunteR

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:27 - Mar 20 by daveB

Fair play to Jas, Saffa and Finney for trying to get answers from him.
I'm about half way through but am finding it very frustrating. Lost of talk with very little actual answers.

I find it staggering that the message was about how good our player availability is. Just complete bullshit saying Poku wasn't picked due to the manager, he was recovering from a hamstring injury which is why he played in the development team.

10% missing of 28 players is basically 3 players. First half of the season we had Walsh, Chair, JCS, Poku, Frey and Vale all had long spells out and thats just off the top of my head.

To continue the laughable claim that Burrell was a contact injury, we all have bloody eyes. He's torn a hamstring stretching for a ball.

Also find it amusing he went on about the 90% availability but conveniently didn't mention what the availability has been since Sheffield Wednesday because it's a lot less than 90% now. It's all about how you use data and they keep using it to suit their narrative rather than looking for something that can help.

If they won't accept there is a problem it will keep happening

It's important to follow science and he sounds very good at that but it feels like we lack people around this who know how to deal with people, there is more to football than data

"there is more to football than data"

In a nutshell.

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 23:13 - Mar 20 with 3289 views

Hunterhoop

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 20:52 - Mar 20 by JamesB1979
If someone is available all year but not available for matches…..that sounds like a very polite way of saying that player isn’t very good.

In old money I think what he’s getting at is the difference between physically fit and match fit. Williams’ availability figures seem to be based on “physically fit” (as deemed by him…helpful) not “match fit” (as deemed by the football guy in the building, Stephan, based on watching them in training”. Which matters most? On top of that, Williams is then conveniently excluding from his stats a player who has been unavailable for 100% of the season (because, of course), and, no doubt, including players who are nowhere near the 1st XI who are often available. For example, I bet all 3 keepers are showing at a very high % availability, but we can only ever play one, of course. The 3rd keeper’s availability isn’t particularly important but for stat padding.

It is all so obviously bullsh*t. These blokes are chancers.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 02:27 - Mar 21 with 3135 views

PunteR

The grass at Loftus road is apparently a living breathing organism. Every pitch is a living , breathing organism.
The groundsman identified a very small patch of grass disease, and we didnt want to cross contaminate with other football pitches , so we informed them we've got a plastic pitch same as Luton , so f**k you and your diseased grass.

[Post edited 21 Mar 2:28]

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 04:14 - Mar 21 with 3094 views

Match82

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 02:27 - Mar 21 by PunteR
The grass at Loftus road is apparently a living breathing organism. Every pitch is a living , breathing organism. The groundsman identified a very small patch of grass disease, and we didnt want to cross contaminate with other football pitches , so we informed them we've got a plastic pitch same as Luton , so f**k you and your diseased grass. [Post edited 21 Mar 2:28]

It's weird you say that. Since the day we got rid of the pitch we've
1. Never won 3-1, at home, on a Wednesday
2. Won a game north of Lincoln by three clear goals
3. Signed a player born between the 5th and 12th of March

Probably.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 08:26 - Mar 21 with 2986 views

davman

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 18:21 - Mar 20 by davman
This is the true metric. Take the top 15 players you'd expect to make the match day squad and work out the %age of games they actually appeared in. Anything else is horseshit, right?

So, I'll be generous and do games played rather than minutes played... I'll leave the 'keepers out as we'll never know who was first choice...
Dunne 36 (100%)
Kone 36 (100%)
Madsen 34 (94%)
MBengue 34 (94%)
RND 30 (83%)
JCS 8 (25%)
Saito 31 (86%)
Chair 11 (31%)
Dembele 28 (78%)
Poku 10 (28%)
Varane 29 (80%)
Burrell 26 (72%)
Edwards 9 / 9 (100%)
Kolli 18 (50%)
Hayden 25 (69%)

Gives an average of 73%

All flawed (as all stats are), but a more realistic number. Yes, I have left Vale and Morgan off, but if everyone is fit, would they make your first 15? Same with Cook. First choice two would be from Dunne, Edwards and JCS. They are all about the average anyway...

	Can we go out yet?
Poll:	Will Kone and Madsen feature this weekend?

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 08:35 - Mar 21 with 2973 views

SW_Ranger

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 04:14 - Mar 21 by Match82
It's weird you say that. Since the day we got rid of the pitch we've 1. Never won 3-1, at home, on a Wednesday 2. Won a game north of Lincoln by three clear goals 3. Signed a player born between the 5th and 12th of March Probably.

Haven’t listened to the podcast as I don’t think I have the willpower to listen to Ben as he isn’t my favourite player.

Mr Williams clearly has a wealth of data at his fingertips yet only focuses on ONE data stat to claim/prove to fans he is effectively doing his job so well. If he was he could have reeled out a number of other supportive info. If he’s doing a good job one would assume that others aren’t by definition. So who is going to pay the price for two seasons of poor player fitness and the plethora of injuries?

I too would have been interested in his body language. If he isn’t used to interviewing I would expect he would be displaying a lot of ‘tells’.

At the end of the day you can’t pull the wool over the eyes of the fans (nor the manager who keeps telling us we are limited due to injuries - we know JS, we are with you).
TRUE - we have a ton of injuries
TRUE - we have had a lot of hamstring injuries
TRUE - players lack pace and stamina, you don’t need to measure it, you can see it
TRUE - we don’t have our best 11 players on the pitch for each position! 100% of the season.
TRUE - the pitch looks awful, just look down Ellerslie. WTF. If it’s due to rain why are you spraying it with something so bad? Just what you need is a road cyclist fitness/data guru sorting our pitch. VFM?
TRUE - you’re not doing your job well Ben - it’s a results business
TRUE - you can pull the wool over a few in the boardroom but you can’t do it to 1000’s of fans

If he stays, we get more of the same. We have restructured the academy, good job! Next project to restructure the elite performance and fitness team fit for a football club.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 08:55 - Mar 21 with 2942 views

terryb

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 08:26 - Mar 21 by davman

Didn't Dunne miss the first two games through injury & Morgan played at right back?

And yes, Vale would definitely make by top 15!

[Post edited 21 Mar 8:58]

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:57 - Mar 21 with 2871 views

Northernr

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 08:26 - Mar 21 by davman

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:29 - Mar 21 with 2806 views

numptydumpty

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:57 - Mar 21 by Northernr

I did attempt to listen to 100% of this podcast, however for 5.3% of the listen, unfortunately a call of nature arose which meant my parameters were unintentionally paralysed for a short moment in time !!!!

However, despite my disappointing stats percentages of engagement with the pod, i have tried to summarize my thoughts.....

## What is Working

Personal Character: I dont doubt Williams’ intelligence, his genuine will to succeed, and his desire to achieve better results for the club.

Physical Focus: The emphasis on improving the pace and strength of the squad is viewed as a necessary and positive development.

Transparency: Williams deserves credit for appearing on an independent podcast and answering unscripted, thoughtful questions rather than sticking to "prepared" club media waffle and protection a la Nourry's recent appearances.

Communication Style: He came across as considered and thoughtful in his delivery during the interview.

## What is Not Working

Role Overload: Williams appears to have too broad a remit (covering everything from performance to transport and communication). This "JACK OF ALL TRADES" approach may be diluting his effectiveness in where he has expertise.

The "Smokescreen" Policy: The lack of clarity regarding player injuries (e.g., Ilias Chair) is viewed as unnecessary. It appears to me that "tactical" silence doesn't actually confuse the opposition; it only frustrates fans.

Over-Reliance on Data: There is a concern that the data science team has too much influence over coaching decisions. If data prevents a player from playing a certain way to avoid injury, it risks over-analysing a team game.

Communication Barriers: The technical language used by performance staff may be too complex. This is especially problematic for young players or those whose first language isn't English, leading to confusion rather than improvement. Perhaps think about how this may affect and confuse young players from overseas, like Saito and Esquerdinha.

Individual vs. Team: The current approach focuses heavily on individual "machine-like" metrics, potentially ignoring how players link up as an eleven or the human element of the sport.

## Overall Conclusion

I can see that while the intent and intelligence behind the performance department are high, the execution is over-complicated. By treating players as data points rather than people, the club may be inadvertently causing more injuries and mental fatigue. I can see this being a definite major issue for me.

Recommendations for the club to consider, for me:

Streamline the performance department. Move away from a "ONE SIZE FITZ HALL" formula and reduce the data team's interference in coaching to allow for more natural, football-led decision-making.

Save money so that they can upgrade pitch protection and quality. Clearly the whole data and performance team is too top heavy and you dont want players having too much information going into their minds, pre coaching sessions and actual games.

All a performance team needs to convey to a player and fans is you can perform regularly and you know exactly what you are being conditioned to achieve as part of a team.ie you are fit enough to do all that a coach/manager wants you to do.

We dont want players thinking too much. A lot of the game of football is instinctive and the fact of too much information leads to confused performance and will also stifle creativity.

Also, we have too many players getting setbacks in training due hampering their availibility. Players will be over confused in training and on the pitch, i feel. "TOO MANY COOKS" comes to mind.

I dont doubt Bens intelligence, his will to succeed etc but he has too wide a remit and a lot of what he said, seemed to miss a lot of important points

"OVER ANALYSIS PARALYSIS"

[Post edited 21 Mar 10:52]

	"Walking in a Mackie Wonderland"
Poll:	Main Reason you started following QPR ??

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:39 - Mar 21 with 2784 views

Hooping_Mad

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:33 - Mar 20 by Northernr
One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures, most of which can never possibly be proved one way or the other, and then if you say 'come on, we can all see Poku, Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc have been out for months and injuries have killed our season' then you're told you're speaking "anecdotally" and what you're saying isn't backed up by "the data".

When asked why he was trying to convince the podcast we've had 90% availability when we clearly haven't was for me the most revealing.

They essentially told him that his figures were bullshit, he responded with a straight face to tell us that Ziyad Larkeche isn't classed as injured because he broke down before we had to submit the squad numbers.

The very definition of mental gymnastics.

The guy is stealing a living and probably is now aware that we know this.

Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:44 - Mar 21 with 2773 views

DeanoMD

Having worked in Strength and Conditioning for many years myself across a range of sports with both teams and individuals at various levels I can clearly say with a modicum of insight that Mr Williams is talking complete non-sense.

His claims that he's not comfortable with public speaking are also truly bizarre, he operates at a level where not only is public exposure expected but he has to have the ability to communicate well with groups of people and his skill at avoiding the question and throwing up waffle tells a different story.

Shambles.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:01 - Mar 21 with 2727 views

BeauRanger

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 17:28 - Mar 20 by QPR_Jim
"He's a scientist & his language reflects that" - That's a bit of a reach, I might be being a snob here but he studied sport science, it's hardly a PHD in Physics. As most on here have pointed out, it appears he's manipulating the data to get the answers he wants which is very un-scientific. So I'd suggest a more accurate phrase might be "he's a wally and his language reflects that".

He actually said he has just finished his PHD…

I’m not saying he’s right, it just occurred to me how he was dealing with valid questions.

He’s obviously defending his position & using the stats to try to back that up, as to most fans it appears the team have had significant injury issues for several years.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 11:22 - Mar 21 with 2682 views

dmm

I hope the club, Nourry and Williams in particular, are aware of supporters' dissatisfaction over the explanations made in this interview. Some sort of statement, or better, a further interview is now needed by the club to clear up this shit show.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:26 - Mar 21 with 2565 views

Hunterhoop

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:57 - Mar 21 by Northernr

If that is true, 71.4% availability across a 28 man squad is 100%, meaning his 90% equates to 64.3% availability (which feels about right). But that also excludes Larkeche because he was injured before then 28 ma squad was finalised and so sits outside the numbers.

The decision to calculate off a 28 man squad in part determined due to who was injured at that time (helpfully giving you a clean slate at that point), and then to say that fielding a full matchday squad from that 28 without having to call on the EDS is 100% availability is such obvious bullshit he should be laughed out of town. He’s a conman. No one serious, in any profession, cooks the numbers like that.

And, ultimately, if the club are trying to create a narrative that 64.3% availability from the 28 man squad is “good”, then things aren’t going to go well in the future.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:38 - Mar 22 with 2281 views

baz_qpr

I listened to it on the way to the watch yesterday so a few points from me. I am not a sports scientist.

Firstly when he described his role it seems to me it's almost 75% a Chief Operations Officer role. Anyone who has managed at a senior level in a medium or largish org will tell you, you are only as good as the people below you and whilst you can set direction and strategy and maybe get granular on a few things you are always reliant on the expertise of your team and your suppliers. It is also perfectly normal to manage team and experts in areas you are not, so I have no issue that he is overseeing pitches for example, or the bogs in the training ground.

Every organisation in every field puts an emphasis on "data driven decision making" and every organisation mainly driven by senior management who have to report to investors will cherry pick the best data points to paint their org / team in the best light. Tbh you can make the data say whatever you want However if you are going to actually make a difference, internally you focus on the poorest data points to work on issues etc.

Now he is a representative of an org, not the most senior one either and no one is going to wash their dirty laundry in public, no one is going to do one of these interviews and paint themselves or the club in a poor light or throw poor Bob under the bus because he royally cocked up in some area or another and again anyone that has worked in any org of any size will know that people royally cock up all the time across most areas.

Key things I picked up overall though was

a) A recognition (all be it framed in the most positive sense) that there have been some cock ups along the way.

b) I never knew that a lot of Prem grounds had this "carpet" approach to pitches and that they were relaid a few times a year. And I genuinely get the issue about storage of lights at the ground. Interesting to learn about the grass disease at the loft end

c) I wonder if they have the balance wrong in terms of where they have recruited their fitness people fro and not having enough football experience. Yes they will gain it on the job and that might be a part of where we are today.

d) I wonder if we over egg the science and data bit because the complexity of individuals and all the factors involved

Overall I thought it was a good interview Saffa and Jazz put forward some really good questions and it is to be encouraged.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:17 - Mar 22 with 2243 views

Northernr

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:38 - Mar 22 by baz_qpr

Good post mate.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:43 - Mar 22 with 2162 views

francisbowles

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:38 - Mar 22 by baz_qpr

Nice to get a balanced and constructive view of what may be happening.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 14:12 - Mar 22 with 2114 views

numptydumpty

I have been told by a few on here, either those that witnessed it or knew someone that did when supposedly Williams made the comments to Kolli that he would never play regularly for this club while he was here, in a confrontation in the club canteen !!

If I had been on the podcast asking questions, I would have at least asked the question, but it wasn't asked by any, not even Finney, who I would have thought may have asked just to prove it was false.

Maybe, it wasn't asked for potential legal reasons.

Not sure of the reason, why it wasn't asked, as it could then be put to bed,as a storm in a tea cup or simply untrue. The fact, it wasn't, makes me more concerned. Ie the club often cover up many things that they would consider fans just dont need to know.

I guess its a question that will never be asked.

[Post edited 22 Mar 14:13]

	"Walking in a Mackie Wonderland"
Poll:	Main Reason you started following QPR ??

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 14:28 - Mar 22 with 2099 views

KensalT

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:38 - Mar 22 by baz_qpr

I think that assessment is all very fair.

I will pick up on your suggestion that Williams is effectively a COO.

In my experience CEOs in small-medium sized organisations are generally good at some aspects of the job and generally very reliant on the people under them to be good in their job in the areas the CEO might be weak on (as you say yourself).

The most effective CEOs I've known have often worked with a trusted and experienced deputy who can make sure the operation is ticking along on a daily basis while the CEO handles the bigger picture.

The fundamental weakness in the Nourry/Williams dynamic is that neither of them has executive/managerial experience either of football or of running an organisation the size of QPR.

None of that might matter if you're working to a plan and the plan is running smoothly. But what happens when you hit a big bump in the road like being inundated with long-term injuries to your key or most sellable players?

The fact we have hit the same big bump in the road two seasons running without learning the lessons of last season might suggest that the lack of experience at the top is costing us.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 14:56 - Mar 22 with 2070 views

francisbowles

I haven't listened but did anyone ask what they are going to do differently this summer and next season to improve things.

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 16:22 - Mar 22 with 1958 views

numptydumpty

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 14:56 - Mar 22 by francisbowles
I haven't listened but did anyone ask what they are going to do differently this summer and next season to improve things.

No they think everything is going in our favour and did not think there is any need for any change in philosophy.

For me, it was just Williams saying what they are doing and how and injuries currently were glossed over as just bad luck.

And injuries or setbacks in training were just one of those things that could happen.

Communications they felt were ok too, for reasons injuries not neccessarily always updated because for instance opposition could prepare for a Ilias Chair return, if they knew ahead of time.

So zero changes in strategy or communication going forwards from my understandings of the pod.

That was the general vibe that i picked up. Others may have caught snippets that suggested otherwise, but i certainly didnt notice.

	"Walking in a Mackie Wonderland"
Poll:	Main Reason you started following QPR ??

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 12:47 - Mar 23 with 1661 views

KensalT

Now that we're all heavily invested in the value of data I'm sure the club won't want to ignore this important finding about the shelf-life of sporting directors :-)

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:33 - Mar 23 with 1576 views

francisbowles

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 16:22 - Mar 22 by numptydumpty

Yeh but did anyone actually ask the question?

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 14:19 - Mar 23 with 1510 views

nick_hammersmith

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 13:33 - Mar 23 by francisbowles
Yeh but did anyone actually ask the question?

Also it wasn't fair on our favourite players if the club said that Burrell was out for 10 weeks, but it turns out that it rolled into 12 weeks then he wouldn't be able to cope.

Lord knows how Chair is feeling then, as he was due to come back around Xmas wasn't he??

Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 16:39 - Mar 23 with 1405 views

robith

One of my stock phrases at work is that data, by definition is meaningless; it only becomes information once it's been interpreted.

"The data tells us" - the data doesn't tell us anything. It just is. It's how you interpret it and use insight you glean from it.

Player availability of 90% doesn't matter if the 10% is 4/5 of your key attacking assets, in the same way it being 50% is less relevant if you get your first choice team out for most of the season

You can only be "data led" if you have a point of view. Look at Brighton. They're currently hoovering up young English goalkeeping prospects into their academy as their interpretation of the data tells them the top 6 have overlooked it and they'll need them in future as an easy home grown qualified player for Europe and lo and behold, Brighton are building a conveyor belt of them. The data didn't tell them that; someone interrogated the data and came to a conclusion

[Post edited 23 Mar 16:40]

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