| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? 10:28 - Sep 16 with 34302 views | wombat |
should be comedy central as normal |  |
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| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:14 - Sep 18 with 1472 views | 1JD |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 10:28 - Sep 18 by daveB |
Willock played almost every game under Marti so not sure the owners stepped in on that one, I just think Ainsworth didn't rate him and he was injured a lot under him |
Ainsworth repeatedly said the bar for him was about working hard and if players didn’t hit that, they wouldn’t be picked. Much like Stephan. It was not directly at Willock, but it was indirect, as he wasn’t getting selected.
The point is that Kolli is in a similar position. We have a similar “work hard at all costs” manager in Stephan. Flair players must do their running. Whether you agree with the fact every single player, regardless of their role in the team, should be held to the same work hard bar is a matter of opinion.
For me personally, I’d be happy to select players on their strengths not weaknesses, like Marti did with Willock. And even Warnock did with Adel in the extreme. In my opinion, there is an in between, and not all players have to be held to a black and white work your nuts off philosophy or you don’t play. But again, it’s all about personal preference and one’s own decision making. |  | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:16 - Sep 18 with 1441 views | Northernr |
Ainsworth was trying to rebuild a culture whereas Marti was trying to fight a fire as well.
I can see why Ainsworth taking over a completely toxic dressing room would want to try and lay down some non-negotiables and make examples of a few people.
I can also see why Marti would come in with no money to spend and make an immediate move to bring an ostracised good player back into the team. |  | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:21 - Sep 18 with 1425 views | 1JD |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:16 - Sep 18 by Northernr |
Ainsworth was trying to rebuild a culture whereas Marti was trying to fight a fire as well.
I can see why Ainsworth taking over a completely toxic dressing room would want to try and lay down some non-negotiables and make examples of a few people.
I can also see why Marti would come in with no money to spend and make an immediate move to bring an ostracised good player back into the team. |
Yes but even if the dressing room wasn’t toxic, that’s just Ainsworth’s style of management and more importantly, it’s ingrained in his belief system. He did the exact same at Wycombe. Stephan is running to the same core principles.
Again, whether that’s agreeable to some or not, is completely a matter of personal opinion and management style. Warnock did not do that, for instance. Neither did Marti. Both of which are on record for their love of flair players. So, unlike Stephan and Ainsworth, they see flair players in a different light, and are willing to make sacrifices, for the benefit of the team in other ways. [Post edited 18 Sep 11:22]
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| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:26 - Sep 18 with 1402 views | TheChef |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:16 - Sep 18 by Northernr |
Ainsworth was trying to rebuild a culture whereas Marti was trying to fight a fire as well.
I can see why Ainsworth taking over a completely toxic dressing room would want to try and lay down some non-negotiables and make examples of a few people.
I can also see why Marti would come in with no money to spend and make an immediate move to bring an ostracised good player back into the team. |
And one of those non-negotiables was sitting in front of haka man 
I mean in the end Ainsworth did keep us up so, er, mission accomplished?
Although that win at Burnley was very much tear in the fabric of reality type stuff.
I suppose he deserved to stay in the job for the following season, but in hindsight that was a big mistake.
Anyway for all the trials and tribulations that followed, I'm very glad we have JS in charge and long may that continue. |  |
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| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:31 - Sep 18 with 1383 views | 1JD |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:26 - Sep 18 by TheChef |
And one of those non-negotiables was sitting in front of haka man
I mean in the end Ainsworth did keep us up so, er, mission accomplished?
Although that win at Burnley was very much tear in the fabric of reality type stuff.
I suppose he deserved to stay in the job for the following season, but in hindsight that was a big mistake.
Anyway for all the trials and tribulations that followed, I'm very glad we have JS in charge and long may that continue. |
Ainsworth’s record was absolutely dreadful across both seasons. You can either take the view that he “kept us up” first season.
Or you can take the view he directly helped drive us to the brink of relegation in that first season.
The evidence and form guide supports the latter, since he made zero improvements upon taking over and actually made us worse. | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:35 - Sep 18 with 1364 views | Northernr |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:26 - Sep 18 by TheChef |
And one of those non-negotiables was sitting in front of haka man
I mean in the end Ainsworth did keep us up so, er, mission accomplished?
Although that win at Burnley was very much tear in the fabric of reality type stuff.
I suppose he deserved to stay in the job for the following season, but in hindsight that was a big mistake.
Anyway for all the trials and tribulations that followed, I'm very glad we have JS in charge and long may that continue. |
I didn't say he was any good at it  | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:35 - Sep 18 with 1364 views | TK1 |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 10:37 - Sep 18 by nick_hammersmith |
It sounds like the whole squad have been told "work hard and you will get in the first team"
This is a pretty clear message and it appears to be true, as the coach himself has confirmed this on a few separate occasions.
Now, if one player is picked for the first team and the rest of the squad can see that he has not worked hard, then I believe this will do more damage than good.
It takes a long time to change a culture in any team. The captain confirmed that there is a good spirit in the squad at the moment.
Why try and change that by bending a "non-negotiable"?
I'm not ITK, but it sounds like Rayan knows what he needs to do to get in the first team.
I don't think its attend home and away games with the fans, I don't think that its posting on social media, I think its just as simple as listening to advice from the coach and acting on it.
I'd love to see Rayan get a run in the team. He is more likely to score a goal than Lloyd, I don't think anyone would argue against that, but his reintroduction into the team needs to be done on his merit, and that sounds like attitude and application to me. |
Totally get that. Understand it's a positive red line for the coaching staff. See why Lloyd passes muster too.
I'm not pining for Rayan Kolli. I'm not quite sure how good he is yet even, because we have quite small sample size.
I just feel this current situation is the worst possible outcome. If he's not going to be played, I wish we'd sold him or loaned or something. Because this leaves us surprisingly light in a key position.
I didn't think we needed a striker signing in July as I figured between Burrell, Kone and Kolli, with Lloyd and Bennie pushing them, we were well stocked. I was wrong.
Two months later, without any significant injures in that department, we only have Burrell and Lloyd, which looks to me very very light - considering how good our possession going forward play is now too. We have looked blunt in recent games.
My frustration is not about Kolli being ignored, but not being replaced really. | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:36 - Sep 18 with 1363 views | TheChef |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:31 - Sep 18 by 1JD |
Ainsworth’s record was absolutely dreadful across both seasons. You can either take the view that he “kept us up” first season.
Or you can take the view he directly helped drive us to the brink of relegation in that first season.
The evidence and form guide supports the latter, since he made zero improvements upon taking over and actually made us worse. |
Hmmm well true - I think a lot of the players took the view he'd only ever had one season managing in the Championship and he wasn't up to the job. So they're equally to blame (excluding Cook, Field and a few others).
But in the end the record books will show we stayed up. | |
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| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:07 - Sep 18 with 1270 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:36 - Sep 18 by TheChef |
Hmmm well true - I think a lot of the players took the view he'd only ever had one season managing in the Championship and he wasn't up to the job. So they're equally to blame (excluding Cook, Field and a few others).
But in the end the record books will show we stayed up. |
Ainsworth averaged 0.85 points that season. Critchley 0.67. Harsh to say Ainsworth made us worse. Well wrong more than harsh actually.
If Critchley's points per game maintained instead of appointing Ainsworth we'd have finished with 48 points, still 4 clear of relegation.
Beale only took one point from his last 5 games too which is often forgotten.
Everyone was crap basically. |  | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:13 - Sep 18 with 1249 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:14 - Sep 18 by 1JD |
Ainsworth repeatedly said the bar for him was about working hard and if players didn’t hit that, they wouldn’t be picked. Much like Stephan. It was not directly at Willock, but it was indirect, as he wasn’t getting selected.
The point is that Kolli is in a similar position. We have a similar “work hard at all costs” manager in Stephan. Flair players must do their running. Whether you agree with the fact every single player, regardless of their role in the team, should be held to the same work hard bar is a matter of opinion.
For me personally, I’d be happy to select players on their strengths not weaknesses, like Marti did with Willock. And even Warnock did with Adel in the extreme. In my opinion, there is an in between, and not all players have to be held to a black and white work your nuts off philosophy or you don’t play. But again, it’s all about personal preference and one’s own decision making. |
The clever thing that Warnock did with Adel was to bring the team along with this.
Players like Hill, Derry and Mackie knew that they would have to run twice as hard, do twice as much tracking back because Adel wasn't going to.
This worked when we were winning, but once we started losing and Warnock wasn't around the dissent started and the rot was there. Combine that with pay disparity and we had a toxic dressing that took years to correct.
I like Kolli, but I don't think you can build a Championship winning team around him, or he's worth upsetting the rest of the squad for.
I'm not sure its just about running around, its attitude and application.
A lot of people thought Barton worked hard when he played for us. This goes to show how large a part perception is. This is directly affected by your actions, what you say and do and these can be easy to change |  | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:19 - Sep 18 with 1232 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:26 - Sep 18 by TheChef |
And one of those non-negotiables was sitting in front of haka man
I mean in the end Ainsworth did keep us up so, er, mission accomplished?
Although that win at Burnley was very much tear in the fabric of reality type stuff.
I suppose he deserved to stay in the job for the following season, but in hindsight that was a big mistake.
Anyway for all the trials and tribulations that followed, I'm very glad we have JS in charge and long may that continue. |
We shouldn't focus on the Haka too much.
I think what Ainsworth was trying to do in that session was find out quickly who was "on board" and who was going to take the p1ss, just a character test really.
One of the reasons I think that him and Dobson were so successful at Wycombe was that the players there had the hunger, they needed to progress.
Some of the players Ainsworth had thought they had already made it, so were not in the same headspace.
It was a bad appointment and another example of the owners bowing to popular choices to bring in a fans favourite, even if it meant a complete change in direction/style and playing staff. | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:31 - Sep 18 with 1197 views | 1JD |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:07 - Sep 18 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Ainsworth averaged 0.85 points that season. Critchley 0.67. Harsh to say Ainsworth made us worse. Well wrong more than harsh actually.
If Critchley's points per game maintained instead of appointing Ainsworth we'd have finished with 48 points, still 4 clear of relegation.
Beale only took one point from his last 5 games too which is often forgotten.
Everyone was crap basically. |
The squad stayed the same. And that’s the key data point. If everything is equal, what did each manager deliver with the same squad?
So the real comparison is to Beale, and the last 5 games are somewhat irrelevant. Could have just been a temporary dip and we will never know. Happens all the time with the form guide.
So how does Ainsworth compare to Beales record, of the same season and same squad, including his 5 game poor form finish?
And it’s not true that everyone was crap. Beale wasn’t.
Edit: Ainsworth’s average points total of 0.85 over 46 games would have you yielded 39 points. The 3rd placed relegation finish was Reading with 44. 39 points equals relegation over Ainsworth’s average points haul. We stayed up because of Beales record, not Ainsworth’s. [Post edited 18 Sep 12:39]
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| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:31 - Sep 18 with 1194 views | KensalT |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:19 - Sep 18 by nick_hammersmith |
We shouldn't focus on the Haka too much.
I think what Ainsworth was trying to do in that session was find out quickly who was "on board" and who was going to take the p1ss, just a character test really.
One of the reasons I think that him and Dobson were so successful at Wycombe was that the players there had the hunger, they needed to progress.
Some of the players Ainsworth had thought they had already made it, so were not in the same headspace.
It was a bad appointment and another example of the owners bowing to popular choices to bring in a fans favourite, even if it meant a complete change in direction/style and playing staff. |
Ainsworth wasn't a great appointment, but Critchley had to go and no one else wanted the job!
Ainsworth had Wycombe running on rails. I think he might have lost sight of how long it took to get them into that position and maybe came here thinking a few quick fixes would set everything on the right track.
In the end he had the wrong players for his methods, and ultimately his methods were not what the fans of this club wanted.
But I don't think he gets enough credit for keeping us up because I do believe Critchley would have taken us down. |  | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:43 - Sep 18 with 1169 views | KensalT |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:31 - Sep 18 by 1JD |
The squad stayed the same. And that’s the key data point. If everything is equal, what did each manager deliver with the same squad?
So the real comparison is to Beale, and the last 5 games are somewhat irrelevant. Could have just been a temporary dip and we will never know. Happens all the time with the form guide.
So how does Ainsworth compare to Beales record, of the same season and same squad, including his 5 game poor form finish?
And it’s not true that everyone was crap. Beale wasn’t.
Edit: Ainsworth’s average points total of 0.85 over 46 games would have you yielded 39 points. The 3rd placed relegation finish was Reading with 44. 39 points equals relegation over Ainsworth’s average points haul. We stayed up because of Beales record, not Ainsworth’s. [Post edited 18 Sep 12:39]
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The squad did not "stay the same".
Beale brought players here to work with him, then buggered off at the first opportunity.
By the time Ainsworth got here those same players were completely checked out and disinterested. | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 13:23 - Sep 18 with 1068 views | Pikey |
Seems to me young Kolli becomes a better player by the day in some fans eyes whilst not playing football.
Is just that he is a convenience being used by tjise who dislike Nourry to beat him about the head.
Personally have not seen eniugh to decide if he is any good, certaonly would not play him in front of Burrell or a fit and firing Kone.
I'd lije to know who ACTUALLY witnessed the alleged canteen incident or is it just a made up.stiry thats grown legs for those who want to believe it.
I trust the manager and if Kolli was pulling up trees on training i'm sure he'd be in the matchday squad. | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 13:32 - Sep 18 with 1050 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:31 - Sep 18 by 1JD |
The squad stayed the same. And that’s the key data point. If everything is equal, what did each manager deliver with the same squad?
So the real comparison is to Beale, and the last 5 games are somewhat irrelevant. Could have just been a temporary dip and we will never know. Happens all the time with the form guide.
So how does Ainsworth compare to Beales record, of the same season and same squad, including his 5 game poor form finish?
And it’s not true that everyone was crap. Beale wasn’t.
Edit: Ainsworth’s average points total of 0.85 over 46 games would have you yielded 39 points. The 3rd placed relegation finish was Reading with 44. 39 points equals relegation over Ainsworth’s average points haul. We stayed up because of Beales record, not Ainsworth’s. [Post edited 18 Sep 12:39]
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He didn't take over from Beale. He took over from Critchley. Why would you compare him to Beale in ascertaining whether he made us worse? | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 13:47 - Sep 18 with 1021 views | Myke |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 12:31 - Sep 18 by 1JD |
The squad stayed the same. And that’s the key data point. If everything is equal, what did each manager deliver with the same squad?
So the real comparison is to Beale, and the last 5 games are somewhat irrelevant. Could have just been a temporary dip and we will never know. Happens all the time with the form guide.
So how does Ainsworth compare to Beales record, of the same season and same squad, including his 5 game poor form finish?
And it’s not true that everyone was crap. Beale wasn’t.
Edit: Ainsworth’s average points total of 0.85 over 46 games would have you yielded 39 points. The 3rd placed relegation finish was Reading with 44. 39 points equals relegation over Ainsworth’s average points haul. We stayed up because of Beales record, not Ainsworth’s. [Post edited 18 Sep 12:39]
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Well I never thought I would see Beale defended by a QPR fan. Beale baled at the first possible opportunity, he had zero affinity with the club and even denied he was here. Ainsworth bled blue and white hoops and despite his poor managerial record here he will always be a club legend and more importantly welcomed back any time. Beale’s inability to manage is matched only by his arrogance and he has been properly found out by Rangers and Sunderland and indeed by us. Despite our flying start , the writing was well and truly on the wall which makes those last 5 games very relevant indeed. He was poncing about with ‘tactics which were completely unworkable and the players quickly realised that, hence the fall off in form. Also he is about as welcome at Loftus Road as a new strain of covid.
Comparing JS to GA is also unfair, as there is more to JS than hard work. But hard work should always be the base line, as it should be for any job. But JS enjoys flair players it’s just the ones we have, not just Kolli , Vale, Saito, Poku have not yet stepped up. | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 13:48 - Sep 18 with 1014 views | DavieQPR |
It seems he turned down seven loan offers home and abroad. So please stop saying he needs a loan. |  | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 14:07 - Sep 18 with 980 views | wombat |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 13:47 - Sep 18 by Myke |
Well I never thought I would see Beale defended by a QPR fan. Beale baled at the first possible opportunity, he had zero affinity with the club and even denied he was here. Ainsworth bled blue and white hoops and despite his poor managerial record here he will always be a club legend and more importantly welcomed back any time. Beale’s inability to manage is matched only by his arrogance and he has been properly found out by Rangers and Sunderland and indeed by us. Despite our flying start , the writing was well and truly on the wall which makes those last 5 games very relevant indeed. He was poncing about with ‘tactics which were completely unworkable and the players quickly realised that, hence the fall off in form. Also he is about as welcome at Loftus Road as a new strain of covid.
Comparing JS to GA is also unfair, as there is more to JS than hard work. But hard work should always be the base line, as it should be for any job. But JS enjoys flair players it’s just the ones we have, not just Kolli , Vale, Saito, Poku have not yet stepped up. |
people also forget that beale was looking for a new job just after he arried with his little chatr with stoke a not long after the season started , his fabled winning run was pretty much all worldies from us to win games by the odd goal.
for the we on the we love kolli side of the argument any idea who long his new contract is for ? i do love the argument being made that flair players are uusally lazy and dont work as hard though thats a new angle to say give him some slack hes amazing so dosnt have to chase back | |
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| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 14:39 - Sep 18 with 926 views | loftus77 |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 11:31 - Sep 18 by 1JD |
Ainsworth’s record was absolutely dreadful across both seasons. You can either take the view that he “kept us up” first season.
Or you can take the view he directly helped drive us to the brink of relegation in that first season.
The evidence and form guide supports the latter, since he made zero improvements upon taking over and actually made us worse. |
This. Love Gaz, but a reminder that we had 30pts on the board by Halloween that season (22/23). Quite apt really. [Post edited 18 Sep 14:40]
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| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 20:54 - Sep 18 with 702 views | 1JD |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 13:32 - Sep 18 by Padulas_Shampoo |
He didn't take over from Beale. He took over from Critchley. Why would you compare him to Beale in ascertaining whether he made us worse? |
Critchley was dreadful, as was Ainsworth. Both should be compared to Beale in fact, because Beale proved what was possible with the same squad, in the same season. That’s the key point.
Ainsworth and Critchley average points per game haul both delivered relegation form across the course of the season.
Only Beale with 1.46 points per game was a success, and those points were absolutely key to us staying up, which counters your point that everyone was crap. They weren’t. Beales game time and form directly kept us up, as both Critchley and Ainsworth posted relegation form. [Post edited 18 Sep 21:11]
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| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 21:10 - Sep 18 with 683 views | 1JD |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 13:47 - Sep 18 by Myke |
Well I never thought I would see Beale defended by a QPR fan. Beale baled at the first possible opportunity, he had zero affinity with the club and even denied he was here. Ainsworth bled blue and white hoops and despite his poor managerial record here he will always be a club legend and more importantly welcomed back any time. Beale’s inability to manage is matched only by his arrogance and he has been properly found out by Rangers and Sunderland and indeed by us. Despite our flying start , the writing was well and truly on the wall which makes those last 5 games very relevant indeed. He was poncing about with ‘tactics which were completely unworkable and the players quickly realised that, hence the fall off in form. Also he is about as welcome at Loftus Road as a new strain of covid.
Comparing JS to GA is also unfair, as there is more to JS than hard work. But hard work should always be the base line, as it should be for any job. But JS enjoys flair players it’s just the ones we have, not just Kolli , Vale, Saito, Poku have not yet stepped up. |
You’ve clearly missed the point.
I don’t need to be a Beale fan to acknowledge he did a good job. It’s not an opinion that his good work at QPR that season is the primary reason we stayed up. It’s a fact.
When Michael Beale left QPR in November 2022, QPR had 31 points from 21 Championship games. 1.46 points per game.
Critchley added a paltry 8 points in 12 games. (0.67 PPG; 30.7 points for the season extrapolated out)
Ainsworth added a paltry 11 points in 13 games. (0.85 PPG; 38.9 points extrapolated out)
Reading went down on 44 points. So we were on course for relegation under both Critchley and Ainsworth. | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 22:59 - Sep 18 with 559 views | Myke |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 21:10 - Sep 18 by 1JD |
You’ve clearly missed the point.
I don’t need to be a Beale fan to acknowledge he did a good job. It’s not an opinion that his good work at QPR that season is the primary reason we stayed up. It’s a fact.
When Michael Beale left QPR in November 2022, QPR had 31 points from 21 Championship games. 1.46 points per game.
Critchley added a paltry 8 points in 12 games. (0.67 PPG; 30.7 points for the season extrapolated out)
Ainsworth added a paltry 11 points in 13 games. (0.85 PPG; 38.9 points extrapolated out)
Reading went down on 44 points. So we were on course for relegation under both Critchley and Ainsworth. |
No you are missing the point. The last five games that you dismiss as irrelevant are a clear indication that he had already lost the plot with his ridiculous ‘tactics’. Indeed if I recall correctly the last game he won was a very fortuitous 2-1 win over a very poor Wigan side. If we had won his final games he probably would have stayed, but instead prostituted himself to Rangers while still contracted to us. An odious toad of a man who would have undoubtedly relegated us if he had stayed for the season | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 07:33 - Sep 19 with 421 views | 1JD |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 22:59 - Sep 18 by Myke |
No you are missing the point. The last five games that you dismiss as irrelevant are a clear indication that he had already lost the plot with his ridiculous ‘tactics’. Indeed if I recall correctly the last game he won was a very fortuitous 2-1 win over a very poor Wigan side. If we had won his final games he probably would have stayed, but instead prostituted himself to Rangers while still contracted to us. An odious toad of a man who would have undoubtedly relegated us if he had stayed for the season |
That’s a very weak counter point in the context of average points posted per manager. It’s evidently clear who did a good job with the same squad, and who didn’t.
And who really posted the points that kept us up (Beale) and who posted the points that took us to the brink of relegation over the course of the season (Critchley, Ainsworth).
It’s literally there in black and white. The data does not lie. | | | |
| Fans forum tonight anyone going ? on 08:11 - Sep 19 with 376 views | hubble |
So after ploughing through the seemingly interminable discussions in this thread about one particular player, I think it can be summed up like this: Kolli needs to give his head a wobble. |  |
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