| Next block of seven games 08:43 - Nov 8 with 5079 views | TK1 |
The season breaks down into blocks of seven or eight games - or at least until Christmas.
Then FA Cup 3rd Round second weekend of January and then…between January 16th and May 1st it is relentless. The season will be defined by the conditioning of the key players during this period, as well as trading in Jan.
But I had a sense we’d exceeded expectations since the last international break, so I looked up the corresponding thread:
"Would be nice to win the home games for a change.”
"Not seeing too many points out of that lot”
"We're winless in four...so I'd be surprised if we manage to stay in the top 8.”
"We’d do well to get more than 5 points from that lot. We will likely find ourselves on the back foot in four of those five games…”
In fact, we maintained play-off form from a tough-looking run.
P7 W3 D2 L2 F14 A11
Next seven also looks pretty brutal, but get our best team available and we should fear nobody, I think. What's to come?:
Millwall (A)
Norwich (A)
Sheffield U (H)
Stoke (A)
Wolves (H)
Watford (H)
Wrexham (A)
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| Next block of seven games on 10:22 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Next block of seven games on 12:09 - Nov 8 by KensalT |
And will there be any funds to freshen up the squad in January for the second half of the season?
Based on the summer's transfer dealings the answer to that is probably no! |
This is a good point.
I'm not a fan of January signings, but clubs struggling will make them and teams doing well will 'freshen up for the run in' too. If you stand still, you go backwards.
If we're serious, we'll need to add one or two (only) in Jan. We are extremely light in central midfield, so I'd hope we'd get something there - even if it's a loan. Then depending on Burrell, who has basically been injured for the best part of a year, possibly another striking option. If he's playing by then, then perhaps just a midfielder would help. I guess you could argue for a right back too if Lamptey continues to be stop start, as there is no cover at all for Adamson at the moment and I'd be loathe to move Jimmy. |  |
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| Next block of seven games on 10:31 - Nov 9 with 0 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Next block of seven games on 09:41 - Nov 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
I 100% agree that we shouldn't get too down after a bad result.
100.5% agree.
But I don't think we should trot out excuses either. Call a bad result what it is, a bad result. Move on.
I think as a club we lack ambition, and have done for years.
We chat too much about 'tough games', 'tough opposition', 'tough weeks', 'thr**-gam*-we*ks'. I think that kind of talk puts a limit on our ambition. So does chat like 'it's a good draw if we win our next game'.
I can't imagine Warnock accepting such chat in his promotion season.
'Ye've got to DIE for three points'. :))
It's a decent season so far, but we need to drive it on. Relentlessly.
This is our chance. |
Well said, Brian.
While the first third of the season has undoubtedly given us much to be hopeful of and believe in - and for the first time in years - I think the reality is: we're not as strong as we probably need to be, but then again, we're not as weak as we have been! I think for us: it's one game at a time until March albeit that by year's end, the January TW could be huge in terms of incomings if we're still in the race and, given the model, outgoings too.
How well we're doing is evidenced by the facts of: the continuing absences and seeming inability to really get Buzz, Chair, and Mads back and fully fit; JCS seems to be under nursing procedures again (and we don't trust Morrison); we've had a bit of fortune with Adamson stepping up in the absences of Tariq and Mbengue; the Oompah Lumpahs continue to have question marks over them; plenty not sure about HV and JV; and in Kone, a poor player who will, nonetheless, stick it in the net when fed.
So, for me, it's all progress, and if making the POs is within our power come 1 March, then we really need to go for it, although I'm already thinking next summer's TW could be the really big one.
Continuing concerns about our medico/rehab set-up aside, I think we've had an excellent season. At times, we've played some wonderful stuff, and even in our two wallopings, we had spells where we maybe should have capitalised on our play and our own errors maybe cost us more than beig outclassed.
We're doing bloody well all things considered and for me, our hopes and belief just need to have the caveat of relism underpinning them. |  |
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| Next block of seven games on 10:43 - Nov 9 with 0 views | BAWHoops |
It's always tough and relentless, as West Ham are finding out.
What's working well for us is that we know how we want to play. 442 or 4231.
I'd say the starting 11 is pretty much set as well now.
Charles
Adamson/Lamps Dunne Edwards Boy/Cirkin
Poku Kamara Madsen Smyth
Chair
Kone
You can tinker with a 442 and Chair moving to the wing to accommodate Burrell if it calls for it, but that's essentially what we are trying to get on the pitch when we can.
If we keep doing that with Saito, JCS, Varane, Dembele, Kolli supporting then we really do have a chance to make the top 8.
As always, it's all about fitness |  |
| http://blogandwhitehoops.wordpress.com/ |
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| Next block of seven games on 10:50 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Northernr |
| Next block of seven games on 10:22 - Nov 9 by Antti_Heinola |
This is a good point.
I'm not a fan of January signings, but clubs struggling will make them and teams doing well will 'freshen up for the run in' too. If you stand still, you go backwards.
If we're serious, we'll need to add one or two (only) in Jan. We are extremely light in central midfield, so I'd hope we'd get something there - even if it's a loan. Then depending on Burrell, who has basically been injured for the best part of a year, possibly another striking option. If he's playing by then, then perhaps just a midfielder would help. I guess you could argue for a right back too if Lamptey continues to be stop start, as there is no cover at all for Adamson at the moment and I'd be loathe to move Jimmy. |
As we've said before though, when you're working on salary/budget constraints etc you can't sign a fourth right back if you've already got three on staff just because two of them are crocked. |  | | |
| Next block of seven games on 11:25 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Next block of seven games on 10:50 - Nov 9 by Northernr |
As we've said before though, when you're working on salary/budget constraints etc you can't sign a fourth right back if you've already got three on staff just because two of them are crocked. |
yeah don't disagree. | |
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| Next block of seven games on 11:50 - Nov 9 with 0 views | nix |
| Next block of seven games on 09:41 - Nov 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
I 100% agree that we shouldn't get too down after a bad result.
100.5% agree.
But I don't think we should trot out excuses either. Call a bad result what it is, a bad result. Move on.
I think as a club we lack ambition, and have done for years.
We chat too much about 'tough games', 'tough opposition', 'tough weeks', 'thr**-gam*-we*ks'. I think that kind of talk puts a limit on our ambition. So does chat like 'it's a good draw if we win our next game'.
I can't imagine Warnock accepting such chat in his promotion season.
'Ye've got to DIE for three points'. :))
It's a decent season so far, but we need to drive it on. Relentlessly.
This is our chance. |
That’s a fair opinion Bri. I don’t agree with it though.
I don’t think anyone said it was a good draw as long as we beat Lincoln.
I also don’t think being realistic is lacking ambition. I have a lot of belief we can get in the playoffs but I just don’t think losing or drawing the odd game will prevent that. I also think you can understand why players have off days after playing five matches in a couple of weeks but then expecting a reset after you’ve had a week off and a better performance.
I personally think we spend too much time looking back too. Warnock is the past. Football is different. The financial landscape is different. I think that holds us back more than just not getting too angry about getting a draw against Burnley. It’s made fans demand us signing Austin and Johansen on big wages for the push and then setting us back more than a couple of seasons because of that overspend.
I like the realism. I want pragmatism. I like Stephan’s not getting too down when we lose or too overconfident when we win. I think he expects high standards but recognises the realities too. But I know that’s a minority view on the Board and I accept that. More people agree with you and that’s fine. |  | | |
| Next block of seven games on 11:54 - Nov 9 with 0 views | wombat |
| Next block of seven games on 11:50 - Nov 9 by nix |
That’s a fair opinion Bri. I don’t agree with it though.
I don’t think anyone said it was a good draw as long as we beat Lincoln.
I also don’t think being realistic is lacking ambition. I have a lot of belief we can get in the playoffs but I just don’t think losing or drawing the odd game will prevent that. I also think you can understand why players have off days after playing five matches in a couple of weeks but then expecting a reset after you’ve had a week off and a better performance.
I personally think we spend too much time looking back too. Warnock is the past. Football is different. The financial landscape is different. I think that holds us back more than just not getting too angry about getting a draw against Burnley. It’s made fans demand us signing Austin and Johansen on big wages for the push and then setting us back more than a couple of seasons because of that overspend.
I like the realism. I want pragmatism. I like Stephan’s not getting too down when we lose or too overconfident when we win. I think he expects high standards but recognises the realities too. But I know that’s a minority view on the Board and I accept that. More people agree with you and that’s fine. |
millwall away last few season s we have been awful so we need to do something there this season for sure
norwich , we never perform there either so be nice to get points at both of them |  |
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| Next block of seven games on 12:22 - Nov 9 with 0 views | kensalriser |
I hope we don't throw money at in January because it looks like we have a decent chance of top 8. The playoffs have become something of a holy grail in their own right, which is a misapprehension: you get fck all for losing the playoffs, save a few crumbs from extra gate receipts.
The real question is whether we have a decent chance of going up. As it stands I think the answer to that is no - if we extend the top 8 to 9 by including West Ham, of the six games played against those teams we've lost three, drawn two and won one. That doesn't suggest we can win the playoffs. If we're third in January that might be a different conversation (but we won't be). |  |
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| Next block of seven games on 12:40 - Nov 9 with 0 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Next block of seven games on 11:50 - Nov 9 by nix |
That’s a fair opinion Bri. I don’t agree with it though.
I don’t think anyone said it was a good draw as long as we beat Lincoln.
I also don’t think being realistic is lacking ambition. I have a lot of belief we can get in the playoffs but I just don’t think losing or drawing the odd game will prevent that. I also think you can understand why players have off days after playing five matches in a couple of weeks but then expecting a reset after you’ve had a week off and a better performance.
I personally think we spend too much time looking back too. Warnock is the past. Football is different. The financial landscape is different. I think that holds us back more than just not getting too angry about getting a draw against Burnley. It’s made fans demand us signing Austin and Johansen on big wages for the push and then setting us back more than a couple of seasons because of that overspend.
I like the realism. I want pragmatism. I like Stephan’s not getting too down when we lose or too overconfident when we win. I think he expects high standards but recognises the realities too. But I know that’s a minority view on the Board and I accept that. More people agree with you and that’s fine. |
I actually really like Stéphan, and I think he's doing well.
I think he's ambitious and hungry, and I hope he drives that into the club. |  |
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| Next block of seven games on 12:41 - Nov 9 with 0 views | TK1 |
| Next block of seven games on 11:50 - Nov 9 by nix |
That’s a fair opinion Bri. I don’t agree with it though.
I don’t think anyone said it was a good draw as long as we beat Lincoln.
I also don’t think being realistic is lacking ambition. I have a lot of belief we can get in the playoffs but I just don’t think losing or drawing the odd game will prevent that. I also think you can understand why players have off days after playing five matches in a couple of weeks but then expecting a reset after you’ve had a week off and a better performance.
I personally think we spend too much time looking back too. Warnock is the past. Football is different. The financial landscape is different. I think that holds us back more than just not getting too angry about getting a draw against Burnley. It’s made fans demand us signing Austin and Johansen on big wages for the push and then setting us back more than a couple of seasons because of that overspend.
I like the realism. I want pragmatism. I like Stephan’s not getting too down when we lose or too overconfident when we win. I think he expects high standards but recognises the realities too. But I know that’s a minority view on the Board and I accept that. More people agree with you and that’s fine. |
Agree. Drawing games rather than losing is great, and even losing games is not the end of the world.
Regular reminder that Hull came 6th last season having lost 15 and drawing 10. Derby came 8th having lost 17, Millwall 3rd having lost 11, etc...
That's why not getting lost in the game-by-game thing is good and looking at blocks of games is actually a useful tool.
Accumulate. See where you are in Feb. Also, disagree with Kensal Riser: getting in the playoffs and not winning would still be a big boost to club and convince players we have, players we want, manager, fans, that we can push on next season (which we can). Coming 9th or 10th, not so much - but not end of world either! | | | |
| Next block of seven games on 12:59 - Nov 9 with 0 views | JamesB1979 |
| Next block of seven games on 10:50 - Nov 9 by Northernr |
As we've said before though, when you're working on salary/budget constraints etc you can't sign a fourth right back if you've already got three on staff just because two of them are crocked. |
Signing a right back on loan would take us over the edge? I doubt we’re that close to FFP especially with the new rules. | | | |
| Next block of seven games on 13:00 - Nov 9 with 0 views | TheChef |
Win at home.
Don't lose away.
Easy. |  |
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| Next block of seven games on 22:19 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Myke |
| Next block of seven games on 09:04 - Nov 8 by TK1 |
I agree. I think the Millwall game is absolutely key for setting the tone of the run, like the West Ham one at the start of the last run. (I reckon both clubs would accept draws now). |
Millwall are chronically out of form. We will never get a better time to play them. We should be targeting a win. | | | |
| Next block of seven games on 22:32 - Nov 9 with 0 views | KensalT |
| Next block of seven games on 12:22 - Nov 9 by kensalriser |
I hope we don't throw money at in January because it looks like we have a decent chance of top 8. The playoffs have become something of a holy grail in their own right, which is a misapprehension: you get fck all for losing the playoffs, save a few crumbs from extra gate receipts.
The real question is whether we have a decent chance of going up. As it stands I think the answer to that is no - if we extend the top 8 to 9 by including West Ham, of the six games played against those teams we've lost three, drawn two and won one. That doesn't suggest we can win the playoffs. If we're third in January that might be a different conversation (but we won't be). |
That's all fair, but four of those six games were away.
If you look at the playoffs over the last few of seasons some of those two-legged semis have been very one-sided in favour of the clubs with the bigger budgets.
But if you don't buy a lottery ticket you'll never win the thing. Getting into the post-season jamboree gives us a (small) chance, but it also gets some of our players in the shop window and it gives a good platform to go again next season (not you Millwall!)
On balance I would rather be in it than not in it. [Post edited 9 Nov 22:36]
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| Next block of seven games on 08:33 - Nov 10 with 0 views | stowmarketrange |
| Next block of seven games on 12:22 - Nov 9 by kensalriser |
I hope we don't throw money at in January because it looks like we have a decent chance of top 8. The playoffs have become something of a holy grail in their own right, which is a misapprehension: you get fck all for losing the playoffs, save a few crumbs from extra gate receipts.
The real question is whether we have a decent chance of going up. As it stands I think the answer to that is no - if we extend the top 8 to 9 by including West Ham, of the six games played against those teams we've lost three, drawn two and won one. That doesn't suggest we can win the playoffs. If we're third in January that might be a different conversation (but we won't be). |
We might not have lost 3 games if we could manage to keep our best players on the pitch rather than the treatment room. |  | | |
| Next block of seven games on 08:48 - Nov 10 with 0 views | BexleyHoop |
Thirteen points from that lot and I would be very pleased |  | | |
| Next block of seven games on 09:35 - Nov 10 with 0 views | gazza1 |
| Next block of seven games on 10:22 - Nov 9 by Antti_Heinola |
This is a good point.
I'm not a fan of January signings, but clubs struggling will make them and teams doing well will 'freshen up for the run in' too. If you stand still, you go backwards.
If we're serious, we'll need to add one or two (only) in Jan. We are extremely light in central midfield, so I'd hope we'd get something there - even if it's a loan. Then depending on Burrell, who has basically been injured for the best part of a year, possibly another striking option. If he's playing by then, then perhaps just a midfielder would help. I guess you could argue for a right back too if Lamptey continues to be stop start, as there is no cover at all for Adamson at the moment and I'd be loathe to move Jimmy. |
Really!!!
More CM....when you already have senior players in Chair, Kamara, Varane, Madsen, Vale and don't forget Edwards can & does play there. That's 6, how many more do you want??
Another RB, perhaps, but JD can play there if we really are in a difficult situation. Adamson has improved a lot but it is time to 'rest' him.
What we need, 100% & not possibly, is a decent forward......so if we do have some spare cash I would sign a forward which I think will address many issues that are happening in the final third. | | | |
| Next block of seven games on 09:50 - Nov 10 with 0 views | loftus77 |
Excellent discussion on here as always. My take: I really think (hope) that Glen Kamara's excellent strike against Lincoln could be a sliding-doors moment for this season.
There's a lot of reasonable optimism on this thread following victory in (imho) a crunch game - but just think of the LFW mood if it had finished 1-1? 'Typical Rangers - two more points chucked away against ex-L1 side - tough winter ahead now - mid-table at best...'
As said, we've got a chance of something this season if the medical team suddenly plays a blinder out of nowhere. The extension of the play-offs from 6th to 8th could be incredibly, uncannily, well-timed for us. As kensal says above, I wouldn't be too optimistic about a one-legged tie at Molineux or St Mary's but it would represent major progress - a big step in the right direction. [Post edited 10 Nov 9:51]
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| Next block of seven games on 10:10 - Nov 10 with 0 views | Myke |
| Next block of seven games on 09:05 - Nov 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
I don't like grouping games. It leads to comments like "we'd settle for twelve points from that block". So we end upforgiving, or accepting poor results because they're part of a decent 'block'.
Also leads to comments like after we drew at home to Burnley, that it's an ok result if we beat Lincoln. It isn't. It's two points dropped, and it doesn't matter if Rangers beat Lincoln five days later or Karachi beat Carecas. It's two points dropped.
This is how we end up mid-table every year.
Win the next game, then - and only then - think about the game afterwards. |
I agree with this. ‘Blocking’ games leads to ‘average’ points accrued and allows for some individual poor performances (like Burnley). Our Govt has recently done that with their housing ‘targets’ - using a ‘four year plan ‘ (where have I heard that before) instead of producing yearly results which predictably fell well short.
One game at a time worked for the greats like Shankley, Sexton, Paisley, Clough et al, so good enough for me. | | | |
| Next block of seven games on 10:45 - Nov 10 with 0 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Next block of seven games on 10:10 - Nov 10 by Myke |
I agree with this. ‘Blocking’ games leads to ‘average’ points accrued and allows for some individual poor performances (like Burnley). Our Govt has recently done that with their housing ‘targets’ - using a ‘four year plan ‘ (where have I heard that before) instead of producing yearly results which predictably fell well short.
One game at a time worked for the greats like Shankley, Sexton, Paisley, Clough et al, so good enough for me. |
Kudos for listing Sexton in there, Myke!
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| Next block of seven games on 11:56 - Nov 10 with 0 views | dmm |
| Next block of seven games on 09:35 - Nov 10 by gazza1 |
Really!!!
More CM....when you already have senior players in Chair, Kamara, Varane, Madsen, Vale and don't forget Edwards can & does play there. That's 6, how many more do you want??
Another RB, perhaps, but JD can play there if we really are in a difficult situation. Adamson has improved a lot but it is time to 'rest' him.
What we need, 100% & not possibly, is a decent forward......so if we do have some spare cash I would sign a forward which I think will address many issues that are happening in the final third. |
If we want to finish in the top 8, I think Antti is right about recruiting a CM in January. Vale and Varane are not having good seasons and are weak links in central midfield. With all the 3 game weeks coming, rotating the players in CM without diluting the quality will be essential.
It could well mean selling one of our better players but so be it. That's what we should be doing anyway. |  | | |
| Next block of seven games on 12:34 - Nov 10 with 0 views | kensalriser |
| Next block of seven games on 22:32 - Nov 9 by KensalT |
That's all fair, but four of those six games were away.
If you look at the playoffs over the last few of seasons some of those two-legged semis have been very one-sided in favour of the clubs with the bigger budgets.
But if you don't buy a lottery ticket you'll never win the thing. Getting into the post-season jamboree gives us a (small) chance, but it also gets some of our players in the shop window and it gives a good platform to go again next season (not you Millwall!)
On balance I would rather be in it than not in it. [Post edited 9 Nov 22:36]
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You're making it sound like I don't want to be in the playoffs! Obviously I want to finish as high as possible.
What I don't want is the club to blow the budget on trying to get from 9th to 8th because I think the gain from doing so is very marginal to non existent if you don't get promoted - and I also don't think TK1's feelgood vibes from reaching the playoffs would be any sort of compensation for doing what we did under Warburton, which almost sent us down and we've only just recovered from thanks to the Eze sell-on. Neither do I think there is any particular knock on benefit for the season after participating in the playoffs. | |
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| Next block of seven games on 13:50 - Nov 10 with 0 views | TK1 |
| Next block of seven games on 12:34 - Nov 10 by kensalriser |
You're making it sound like I don't want to be in the playoffs! Obviously I want to finish as high as possible.
What I don't want is the club to blow the budget on trying to get from 9th to 8th because I think the gain from doing so is very marginal to non existent if you don't get promoted - and I also don't think TK1's feelgood vibes from reaching the playoffs would be any sort of compensation for doing what we did under Warburton, which almost sent us down and we've only just recovered from thanks to the Eze sell-on. Neither do I think there is any particular knock on benefit for the season after participating in the playoffs. |
Fair point, it didn't work for Warbs. And maybe Kamara is next season's Johansson.
However, I don't think/hope we'd sign the same kind of player to get in the play-offs. And I do think for players like Cirkin, Kone, Madsen, Edwards, etc, to see the club reach 7th or 6th after consecutive 15th places it would provide a boost to morale, confidence and enhance any ability to attract more of the same type of quality next season.
I don't think this is the moonshot season particularly. That feels more 26/27. But Hull won the playoffs last season.
Personally, think we need a different kind of midfielder and a forward. Perhaps we could recall Bennie and Morgan to aid with this. But I'd love more than anything to have that transformational left-sided winger/attacker from a PL bench/dev squad, a left-sided Routledge of the current era. Strength, speed, bit of physical oomph, technical, raw end product. Maybe Saito is loaned to Europe to enable that?
Just spitballing. | | | |
| Next block of seven games on 14:05 - Nov 10 with 0 views | gazza1 |
| Next block of seven games on 11:56 - Nov 10 by dmm |
If we want to finish in the top 8, I think Antti is right about recruiting a CM in January. Vale and Varane are not having good seasons and are weak links in central midfield. With all the 3 game weeks coming, rotating the players in CM without diluting the quality will be essential.
It could well mean selling one of our better players but so be it. That's what we should be doing anyway. |
We got plenty of CM, we not got plenty of cash......& with 6 players who play CM I do not believe the club will be buying a CM unless we sell one of them.
However, forwards are limited. Kone doing OK atm but is not the answer every match, what I saw of Obikwu is best kept to myself, Kolli is no good enough, Lloyd likewise (could not get many games for Lincoln last season) so that leaves Burrell who is pretty injury prone. So that strongly suggests to me that a forward must be our main signing during the next window if we have play-off aspiration's.
And please do not go down the 3 games a week route.....it is absolute nonsense, just like the 60 minute substitution time!!! | | | |
| Next block of seven games on 14:36 - Nov 10 with 0 views | KensalT |
| Next block of seven games on 12:34 - Nov 10 by kensalriser |
You're making it sound like I don't want to be in the playoffs! Obviously I want to finish as high as possible.
What I don't want is the club to blow the budget on trying to get from 9th to 8th because I think the gain from doing so is very marginal to non existent if you don't get promoted - and I also don't think TK1's feelgood vibes from reaching the playoffs would be any sort of compensation for doing what we did under Warburton, which almost sent us down and we've only just recovered from thanks to the Eze sell-on. Neither do I think there is any particular knock on benefit for the season after participating in the playoffs. |
What I was responding to was your summary of how we had done in our toughest six fixtures so far, and I was making the point that most of those games were played away from home.
To be fair, you did sound very negative about our chances of winning the playoffs based on those results.
On the whole I agree with you. I would be very surprised if a team finishing seventh or eighth won the playoffs.
But you never know. Hull finished sixth last season and I doubt many outside of Humberside fancied their chances of winning the playoffs.
So on balance I would still prefer to be in it than not in it.
But I agree with you that it's not worth breaking the bank just to move us from ninth to eighth. | | | |
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